Libertarians and Liberals: HuffPo Contrasts and Compares

[clb09]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/everett-sizemore/the-simple-life-a-value-l_b_290660.html


The farthest of the right thinks anarchy is coming after the collapse of a bloated government. The farthest of the left thinks we are headed for disaster as a result of abusing the Earth's resources. Both are preparing in similar ways for what they see as a possible, if not inevitable, fall of modern civilization as we know it. In-between the extremes lies a tapestry made up of many types of people with different party affiliations, beliefs and values who just yearn for a simpler life.

[Epic]

"The farthest of the left thinks we are headed for disaster as a result of abusing the Earth's resources."

WTF... if we were gonna run out of some thing, then the price would go up and it would incentivize increased production, or creation of substitutes.

"The serious modern Liberal is a do-it-yourself type of person."

AHAHAHAHAHHAA

"Libertarians are not all (or even mostly) ignorant, ranting religious fanatics who hate something without being able to articulate what or why they hate."

UMMM that's not even the stereotype.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

It's the huffington post...need say more? We need to get the non-interventionist, anti-war type votes, and once we get them in camp need to educate them to see how Government destroys and Laissez-Faire produces. Otherwise its an untenable relationship at best, because frankly, the core is better served as Laissez-Faire sound money because with sound money you can't have these wars in the first place. Good for some support and votes now and to increase the base....what happens when the troops come home and we start to actually have a non-interventionist foreign policy? I suppose, one step at a time.

[emazur]

Actually I thought it was a very good article, complimentary of libertarians, and I'm interested in the self-sufficiency stuff but have never have of Backwoods Home Magazine so I'm grateful for the link they gave

[Conza88]

False left / right paradigm.

[ScoutsHonor]

"The farthest of the right thinks anarchy is coming after the collapse of a bloated government. The farthest of the left thinks we are headed for disaster as a result of abusing the Earth's resources. Both are preparing in similar ways for what they see as a possible, if not inevitable, fall of modern civilization as we know it. In-between the extremes lies a tapestry made up of many types of people with different party affiliations, beliefs and values who just yearn for a simpler life."

This is an interesting example of modern journalism, exemplifying its ability to write much while saying little. And that little, will be inaccurate.

:rolleyes:

[amy31416]

It's certainly not a hateful piece by HP:


We're not talking about the kind of pseudo/neo-Libertarians you see at tea parties; the ones who don't know the difference between fascism and socialism; the ones who are just afraid of whatever Glenn Beck tells them to be afraid of this week. Mr. Silveira is a true Libertarian; an intelligent, articulate, independent American who subscribes to a certain ideology after having informed himself and come to his own conclusions.


And if you haven't checked them out: http://www.backwoodshome.com/

[FreeTraveler]

Backwoods Home Magazine is cool. For a long time, it was home to Claire Wolfe (http://www.backwoodshome.com/wolfe_index.html). If you haven't read her Hardyville (http://www.backwoodshome.com/wolfe_index.html#hardyville) series, you've missed a visit to a great libertarian community. In a perfect world, both Galt's Gulch and Hardyville would exist, and I actually think I'd prefer Hardyville. YMMV. :)

[Bucjason]

It's certainly not a hateful piece by HP:



And if you haven't checked them out: http://www.backwoodshome.com/

Not hateful at all !!

...unless you were an attendee at one of these rallies, and just have been totally ridiculed and discredited as a Glen Beck brain-dead zombie...

[FreeTraveler]

I just finished reading the article. Even with a couple of glaring mistakes, I think it's one of the most balanced articles about libertarianism that I've seen in any progressive source.

This article would make great fodder for bridging the gap between libertarians and progressives. Read it again from the perspective of any liberals you know, and see if they won't learn a lot about the good parts of libertarian thought. :)

[HOLLYWOOD]

false left / right paradigm.

yeap!

[Bucjason]

I just finished reading the article. Even with a couple of glaring mistakes, I think it's one of the most balanced articles about libertarianism that I've seen in any progressive source.

This article would make great fodder for bridging the gap between libertarians and progressives. Read it again from the perspective of any liberals you know, and see if they won't learn a lot about the good parts of libertarian thought. :)

No , what a liberal will take away is that the tea-parties are phony , and not a true sign of the will of the majority-something to be ignored. That of course is the real intent of the article, not a "respect" for real libertarians, which they have none...

The rest of the article is just a bogus comparison. Since when does being a libertarian mean i want the simple life of living in a shack with no electricity and foraging for berries and nuts all day?? Ummmmm, no, I want free markets, and that includes going to buy a big greasy cheesburger in my gas-guzzling Hummer if I damn well please...

[BudhaStalin]

nonsesne :/

[amy31416]

Not hateful at all !!

...unless you were an attendee at one of these rallies, and just have been totally ridiculed and discredited as a Glen Beck brain-dead zombie...

Is there or is there not some truth to that?

I have no problem with honest and legitimate criticism. We all know that neocons are out in force at these tea parties and that Beck has only recently had his "conversion" to libertarian principles. For the record, I'm glad that Beck has come around, but it's a very recent and still suspect phenomenon.

The author is praising true libertarians, just as I would praise a true conservative like Ron Paul and insult neoconservatives who pretend to have the same philosophy when it's convenient.

[amy31416]

I just finished reading the article. Even with a couple of glaring mistakes, I think it's one of the most balanced articles about libertarianism that I've seen in any progressive source.

This article would make great fodder for bridging the gap between libertarians and progressives. Read it again from the perspective of any liberals you know, and see if they won't learn a lot about the good parts of libertarian thought. :)

Absolutely agreed. It's a rare piece that attempts to bridge a divide without promoting that people dump their principles or embrace things that they would find impossible to embrace.

[Bucjason]

Is there or is there not some truth to that?



Truth to the fact that the anti-government ralllies are phony ??? VERY little...but for those that read the huffington puffington post , something they would very much like to believe.

...and if you think there is a gap to possibly bridge with these hardcore leftists to libertarianism , I have a bridge to SELL you. This is not the true intent of this article. Wake up and read between the lines...

[amy31416]

Truth to the fact that the anti-government ralllies are phony ??? VERY little...but for those that read the huffington puffington post , something they would very much like to believe.

...and if you think there is a gap to possibly bridge with these hardcore leftists to libertarianism , I have a bridge to SELL you. This is not the true intent of this article. Wake up and read between the lines...

I didn't say they were phony.

I said that there are commonalities, but I'm sure you aren't interested because of your political leanings, which are different than mine. :)

[Vessol]

There was a pretty good video from Morning Joe a week or so ago where both the Huffington lady and Ron Paul agreed on the Federal Reserve.

[YumYum]

Truth to the fact that the anti-government ralllies are phony ??? VERY little...but for those that read the huffington puffington post , something they would very much like to believe.

...and if you think there is a gap to possibly bridge with these hardcore leftists to libertarianism , I have a bridge to SELL you. This is not the true intent of this article. Wake up and read between the lines...

I am a Libertarian first, and hardcore (XXX) leftist second. How much do you want for the bridge?

[Bucjason]

I didn't say they were phony.

I said that there are commonalities, but I'm sure you aren't interested because of your political leanings, which are different than mine. :)

You said it was true that the people at the rallies don't care about liberty , they are just thier because thier leader Glen Beck told them to show up ...which means you agree they are phony. If you don't have the courage to stand behind your statments without back-tracking , then don't make them.


You are right about one thing : If you are interested in reading the Huffington Puffington Post, then we have VERY different political leanings, and I'd venture to say they are very different from a LOT of people here. The fact that you call yourself a libertarian, but feel less threathened with the nanny-staters on the Huff and Puff than the people at a freedom rally, is scary to me...

[The_Orlonater]

Their first flaw was calling us right-wingers. Why don't these authoritarian socialist ever drop the whole stupid paradigm of theirs?

[amy31416]

You said it was true that the people at the rallies don't care about liberty , they are just thier because thier leader Glen Beck told them to show up ...which means you agree they are phony. If you don't have the courage to stand behind your statments without back-tracking , then don't make them.


You are right about one thing : If you are interested in reading the Huffington Puffington Post, then we have VERY different political leanings, and I'd venture to say they are very different from a LOT of people here. The fact that you call yourself a libertarian, but feel less threathened with the nanny-staters on the Huff and Puff than the people at a freedom rally, is scary to me...

Of course there are some people who don't know or understand Liberty and are there because one leader or another told them to go. I think we both know that I am hostile to neocons--that's a bias that I fully allow myself to indulge in, considering how many people they've killed and how many more they'd kill if we let them have their ways.

In regards to courage, why don't you just come right out and say what you think I believe? I had the cojones to call you out on being a neocon. If you think I'm something other than a libertarian or Constitutionalist--just speak up. You won't offend me.

I will admit that I read the Huffington Post for several reasons:

1. Conservationism--aside from Backwoods Home Magazine, I can't think of a right-wing publication that covers this sincere interest of mine.

2. To pimp 2nd Amendment stuff whenever there's another gun incident. I consider it one of the most important rights and I don't care how we preserve it, as long as we do.

3. To see how pissed they are when Obama breaks yet another promise.


You ever read RedState? They banned anyone who ever even mentioned Ron Paul for quite a long time. Never happened at the lib sites.

Defend that.

I don't owe you a single explanation, but there you have it. If you'd like to attempt to crucify me or run me out because of it--have at it.

[Andrew-Austin]

3. To see how pissed they are when Obama breaks yet another promise.

Please do tell, that way I don't ever have to go to HuffPo to see what liberals are saying.

I'm appointing you to be my official representative on the liberal council, report to me all of their dealings. /Star Wars reference

[amy31416]

Please do tell, that way I don't ever have to go to HuffPo to see what liberals are saying.

I'm appointing you to be my official representative on the liberal council, report to me all of their dealings. /Star Wars reference

LOL. :)

If I ever quote things from a liberal or neoconservative blog, I try to post the text here so people don't have to give them hits.

Their dealings are shady, hypocritical and no worse or better than the neocon blogs I've been to except that they often have interesting info on self-reliance, gardening and things of that nature, which I am often interested in.

They are very authoritarian in their moderation and won't allow the dumbest things to be posted. They seem to allow criticisms of Barack, but not Michelle. They are slowly becoming more open to libertarian messages. They've all but abandoned the anti-war movement and won't even allow comments to that effect. They take a few days longer to report on criticisms of Obama than other outlets. There is a lot of "Obama=Bush" sentiment, but there are still some trying to defend him because of the "mess" Bush left and how much time he's had. They are often superficial and think Michelle and Barack are the black Jackie-O and JFK.

Oh yeah, and about 50-70% of them still try to defend Acorn.

[hugolp]

Truth to the fact that the anti-government ralllies are phony ??? VERY little...but for those that read the huffington puffington post , something they would very much like to believe.

...and if you think there is a gap to possibly bridge with these hardcore leftists to libertarianism , I have a bridge to SELL you. This is not the true intent of this article. Wake up and read between the lines...

I was a lefty (now I dont believe in left and right). And libertarianism has changed me and made me more respectful towards some things, specially religion. It is posible, and seeing it from a "lefty" perspective the article is ok, is trying appeal to "lefties" by touching some emotional chords for them.

I am very surprise at the things I see as normal now and I am defending. A year or two ago I would have never done it. People need time and an easy point of entry. For me it was monetary policy. Now I completely support the free market, but if two years ago you tried sell me the free-market as the solution I would have completely rejected it. No matter how many good arguments you could come up with, I would have rejected with an emotional response. But instead, listening and learning about monetary policy made it for me. Maybe sustainable life can make it for a lot of people that are emotionally conditioned agains some things. As I said, people need a easy entry point.

[Bucjason]

I had the cojones to call you out on being a neocon.


and you based that on 4 things:

The fact I defend the "new" Glen Beck as being good for the cause.

The fact that I think 9/11 truthers are retarded.

The fact that I support the tea party and freedom rally movements as GOOD for the cause.

The fact that I think Whole Foods is bullshit.

So what. I proudly defend those opinions. If you want to proudly defend the Huff and Puff instead, then knock yourself out... :rolleyes:

[Bucjason]

I was a lefty (now I dont believe in left and right). And libertarianism has changed me and made me more respectful towards some things, specially religion. It is posible, and seeing it from a "lefty" perspective the article is ok, is trying appeal to "lefties" by touching some emotional chords for them.

I am very surprise at the things I see as normal now and I am defending. A year or two ago I would have never done it. People need time and an easy point of entry. For me it was monetary policy. Now I completely support the free market, but if two years ago you tried sell me the free-market as the solution I would have completely rejected it. No matter how many good arguments you could come up with, I would have rejected with an emotional response. But instead, listening and learning about monetary policy made it for me. Maybe sustainable life can make it for a lot of people that are emotionally conditioned agains some things. As I said, people need a easy entry point.


Fair points ... but I don't think any of the things on Huffington Puffington would have lead you to this awakening . You've obviously come by it by other sources.