Will voter fraud be an issue in the next election?

[Deborah K]

Statistics show that Voter machines are in 80% of the precincts in America. Watch this video that was on HBO (but first circulated widely on the net before being picked up by them)

Hacking Democracy (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7926958774822130737&ei=36GzSp3QBZDCqQKng-SNAg&q=hacking+democracy#)

[Deborah K]

I don't know about anyone else, but if we don't have an honest election system, we are fubar!

Remember the adage: It's not who votes, it's who COUNTS the votes that matters. That is a Stalin quote.

Come on guys, we need to care about this. Do they use machines in your precinct? If they do, watch this! Please!!!

[Deborah K]

YouTube - Obama, Acorn, And Election Fraud (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NmaZIdz6Vo&feature=fvw)

[ItsTime]

It is always an issue. But we just dont hear about it when the dems win. I guess the republicans were unable to cheat enough last election to win.

[Deborah K]

It is always an issue. But we just dont hear about it when the dems win. I guess the republicans were unable to cheat enough last election to win.

TPTB don't care about parties. Look at the history of the Bildeberg meetings. This isn't about one party having control over the voting ballot. It's about tptb picking and choosing their puppets.

[jmdrake]

Will it be an issue? Yes. Everyone needs to fight at the local state level to force paper trails. The slime in DC will never do what's right on this. That said, the bigger issue is that we have to get far enough ahead in the game to force them to cheat. And by "them" I mean all pro establishment candidates of either wing of the RepubliCrat party.

[ScoutsHonor]

TPTB don't care about parties. Look at the history of the Bildeberg meetings. This isn't about one party having control over the voting ballot. It's about tptb picking and choosing their puppets.

That is the grim reality.:( We are fighting multi-billionaire psychopaths, and because money is power they control pretty much all the tools of influence. If hope lies anywhere, it would be imo if the entire nation, by some wondrous magic, could unite to defeat them.

"In unity there is strength."

[Deborah K]

That is the grim reality.:( We are fighting multi-billionaire psychopaths, and because money is power they control pretty much all the tools of influence. If hope lies anywhere, it would be imo if the entire nation, by some wondrous magic, could unite to defeat them.

"In unity there is strength."

And as I've always said, there are more of us than there are of them. Everyone with voter machines in their precincts needs to rise up and protest against this. Based on the documentary, they are way to easily rigged and the fraud is way to easy to cover up.

Demand a paper trail!! And demand an honest voter counting firm with non-partisan oversight.

[Romulus]

TPTB don't care about parties. Look at the history of the Bildeberg meetings. This isn't about one party having control over the voting ballot. It's about tptb picking and choosing their puppets.

yeah..

[ScoutsHonor]

And as I've always said, there are more of us than there are of them. Everyone with voter machines in their precincts needs to rise up and protest against this. Based on the documentary, they are way to easily rigged and the fraud is way to easy to cover up.

Demand a paper trail!! And demand an honest voter counting firm with non-partisan oversight.

Yes indeed. But we need to awaken enough people so we can have the numbers we need for this demandin'. ;) That's really the tremendous value of this forum, I think-- we have a LOT of lurkers, and growing all the time. That gives me hope!

On a related note, I've been thinking about putting fliers under people's doors, say on an issue such as the vaccine, so that they can read the info alone without feeling their current views are being *threatened*. Same would apply for the voting issue - leave the info for them to consider alone, in peace and quiet.
Maybe this would win over some of these darn sheeple. :cool: I hope.

[expendibleater]

I don't know about anyone else, but if we don't have an honest election system, we are fubar!

Remember the adage: It's not who votes, it's who COUNTS the votes that matters. That is a Stalin quote.

Come on guys, we need to care about this. Do they use machines in your precinct? If they do, watch this! Please!!!

We do not have an honest election system.

[Deborah K]

We do not have an honest election system.

What is your perspective?

[IPSecure]

In 2007, WTP instigated a federal lawsuit in New York (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/nuwiki.php?do=book.view&bookid=3) seeking to hold election officials in all fifty states accountable for their deprivation of the People’s fundamental Right to Vote because of the use of non-verifiable electronic and mechanical machine-based vote counting.

The case was dubbed the “National Clean Elections Lawsuit,” or NCEL.

Although a 2008 Order from the U.S. District Court in Albany removed all the non-New York (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/nuwiki.php?do=book.view&bookid=3) defendants, as of last week, the Court ordered the remaining parties to commence preparations for a jury trial.

Click here to read the U.S. District Court's Scheduling Order (http://www.wethepeoplefoundation.org/PROJECTS/NCEL/PACER/Orders/335-ORDER-May-04-09-Sched.pdf).

It must be noted that this is the first federal lawsuit ever to be approved for trial directly challenging the constitutional integrity of a state’s official election procedures which are totally dependent, almost without exception, upon machine-based vote counting.

In the complaint, WTP supporters from all fifty states participated as plaintiffs arguing that the People have a fundamental, natural Right to know their votes are being accurately counted, and that it is unconstitutional for the Government to count our votes in secret -- which is precisely what happens when the “hidden” mechanisms of a machine (whether electronic or mechanical) counts the votes and produces a total.

The complaint further asserts that machine-based vote counting provides abundant opportunities for criminal sabotage, election fraud and errors of all types to occur at almost every step of the election process, beginning with the manufacture and maintenance of vote counting machines, and extending well into election night when machine-contrived vote totals are allegedly passed to, and broadcast by, a (privately-owned) national corporate media consortium without any official, public certification of local vote totals.

The WTP complaint requests the Court impose not only a total ban all vote counting machines (mechanical and electronic) but to impose on state election officials a detailed manual vote counting and certification procedure based solely on the use of plain paper ballots, hand-marked, stored, counted and certified at each precinct level polling location, in full view of the public, at all times.

[/URL]http://wethepeoplefoundation.org/UPDATE/Update2009-05-11.htm (http://wethepeoplefoundation.org/UPDATE/Update2009-05-11.htm)

[url]http://digg.com/d1qxxW?OTC-em-sh2 (http://digg.com/d1qxxW?OTC-em-sh2)

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=192136 (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=192136)

[Deborah K]

Yes indeed. But we need to awaken enough people so we can have the numbers we need for this demandin'. ;) That's really the tremendous value of this forum, I think-- we have a LOT of lurkers, and growing all the time. That gives me hope!

On a related note, I've been thinking about putting fliers under people's doors, say on an issue such as the vaccine, so that they can read the info alone without feeling their current views are being *threatened*. Same would apply for the voting issue - leave the info for them to consider alone, in peace and quiet.
Maybe this would win over some of these darn sheeple. :cool: I hope.

The documentary I posted has cred. This could be handed out and/or emailed too.

[Dionysus]

I believe the electronic systems are intentionally designed to leave no trail. It does NOT have to be designed that way. Secondly, the process is filled with security holes, largely because most people don't know how computers work.

That's why I'd like any computer science people to contact me so we can begin to analyze the situation in Kentucky for Rand. His opponent is the secretary of state in Kentucky, and thus is the head of elections in that state. He is the chairman of the state board of elections, and several other people on this small board have given him money for his campaign! They recently passed a new regulation related to electronic voting "security", which has GOT to raise some suspicions.

CONTACT ME

[ScoutsHonor]

The documentary I posted has cred. This could be handed out and/or emailed too.

Will check it out for sure.
Thnx.

[revolutionisnow]

Prepare your colors and twitter accounts........

[IPSecure]

YouTube - Texas Legislation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eG6X-xtVask&fmt=18)

[Deborah K]

Please take the time to watch at least the first 10 minutes of the vid.

[expendibleater]

In 2007, WTP instigated a federal lawsuit in New York (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/nuwiki.php?do=book.view&bookid=3) seeking to hold election officials in all fifty states accountable for their deprivation of the People’s fundamental Right to Vote because of the use of non-verifiable electronic and mechanical machine-based vote counting.

The case was dubbed the “National Clean Elections Lawsuit,” or NCEL.

Although a 2008 Order from the U.S. District Court in Albany removed all the non-New York (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/nuwiki.php?do=book.view&bookid=3) defendants, as of last week, the Court ordered the remaining parties to commence preparations for a jury trial.

Click here to read the U.S. District Court's Scheduling Order (http://www.wethepeoplefoundation.org/PROJECTS/NCEL/PACER/Orders/335-ORDER-May-04-09-Sched.pdf).

It must be noted that this is the first federal lawsuit ever to be approved for trial directly challenging the constitutional integrity of a state’s official election procedures which are totally dependent, almost without exception, upon machine-based vote counting.

In the complaint, WTP supporters from all fifty states participated as plaintiffs arguing that the People have a fundamental, natural Right to know their votes are being accurately counted, and that it is unconstitutional for the Government to count our votes in secret -- which is precisely what happens when the “hidden” mechanisms of a machine (whether electronic or mechanical) counts the votes and produces a total.

The complaint further asserts that machine-based vote counting provides abundant opportunities for criminal sabotage, election fraud and errors of all types to occur at almost every step of the election process, beginning with the manufacture and maintenance of vote counting machines, and extending well into election night when machine-contrived vote totals are allegedly passed to, and broadcast by, a (privately-owned) national corporate media consortium without any official, public certification of local vote totals.

The WTP complaint requests the Court impose not only a total ban all vote counting machines (mechanical and electronic) but to impose on state election officials a detailed manual vote counting and certification procedure based solely on the use of plain paper ballots, hand-marked, stored, counted and certified at each precinct level polling location, in full view of the public, at all times.

[/URL]http://wethepeoplefoundation.org/UPDATE/Update2009-05-11.htm (http://wethepeoplefoundation.org/UPDATE/Update2009-05-11.htm)

http://digg.com/d1qxxW?OTC-em-sh2 (http://digg.com/d1qxxW?OTC-em-sh2)

[url]http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=192136 (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=192136)



This is a smart move. I did not know about this. Thanks for posting.

[Deborah K]

Check out the web site of the lady who did the leg work in the documentary: http://www.blackboxvoting.org/

This gal is a hero.

[Deborah K]

These voter machines are bad news people. Please watch this documentary on it.

[YumYum]

Edgar Steele, a Ron Paul supporter made this observation:

: "Did you know that the Diebold voting machines are made in Israel? Did you know that an Israeli company was in charge of tallying the Iowa caucus results? Did you know that Israel, like the Council on Foreign Relations, has blessed every Presidential candidate except Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich (Kucinich is one of the fellows demanding a recount in New Hampshire)? Make of those facts what you will. I'll save what I make of them for another day."

http://www.rense.com/general80/rev.htm

[Vessol]

Unless Obama pulls a false-flag, another NeoCon will go into power in 2012. Then we can play this game all over again. Most likely Glenn beck will support this neocon and become buddies. My bet is Huckabee or Romney(both beck and him are mormons).

Either way, we're either getting Obama or a Neocon in office for the next 8 years.

And that's not even with voter fraud. You don't need to rig the elections to make sure of that. Both parties and supporters of both are the vast majority and are idiots. Why would they ever have to rig our elections?

[IPSecure]

Discovery Begins, Jury Will Decide the Law



Now the hard part begins. Bob Schulz and John Liggett, are the lone remaining plaintiffs and are both representing themselves in a pro per capacity before the court (i.e., without attorneys).

Despite decades of hundreds of complex legal confrontations against experienced professional government attorneys battled in courts across numerous states including New York and the District of Columbia, proceeding all the way up to the steps of the U.S. Supreme Court, WTP Chairman Bob Schulz readily admits to only limited trial experience and virtually no experience with the particulars of conducting discovery or executing an actual trial, much less one of profound national significance such as the NCEL case.

Additionally, Schulz and co-Plaintiff Liggett openly acknowledge their lack of detailed familiarity with the technical issues, facts, personalities and body of knowledge in the fields of vote counting machines, election law and election fraud and in no way does their capacity in these areas approach the subject matter expertise and litigation experience possessed by the many activists who have advanced the election integrity movement for so long – and which will be required to achieve Justice.

Bob and John are going to need a lot of help, from a lot of people, if they are to prevail in the NCEL lawsuit.

Soon, we will have more to say on this case. In the meantime, we would appreciate receiving the contact information of each and every person who might be willing to assist in the planning and execution of both the discovery and trial phases of the NCEL case.

Please send your lawsuit related emails (only) to NCEL [at] GiveMeLiberty.org.

[/URL]http://wethepeoplefoundation.org/UPDATE/Update2009-05-11.htm (http://wethepeoplefoundation.org/UPDATE/Update2009-05-11.htm)

[URL]http://www.wethepeoplefoundation.org/PROJECTS/NCEL/NCEL.htm (http://www.wethepeoplefoundation.org/PROJECTS/NCEL/NCEL.htm)
I sent this information to Bev, but have not heard back...

Can we get the Judge to help?

[Deborah K]

Discovery Begins, Jury Will Decide the Law

I sent this information to Bev, but have not heard back...

Can we get the Judge to help?

Wow. Please let us know if she answers you.

[Vessol]

While I agree we should go back to paper ballots.

Still, I'm wondering, why would they ever have to commit voting fraud?

It's pretty easy already to herd Americans to either side which are essentially the same.

Call me cynical, but I'm doubtful if we can ever get 50%+ of the population to actually think for themselves and be informed.

“The great thing about democracy is that it gives every voter a chance to do something stupid.”-Art Spander

“The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.”- Churchhill

“A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.”-Thomas Jefferson

[Deborah K]

While I agree we should go back to paper ballots.

Still, I'm wondering, why would they ever have to commit voting fraud?

It's pretty easy already to herd Americans to either side which are essentially the same.

Call me cynical, but I'm doubtful if we can ever get 50%+ of the population to actually think for themselves and be informed.

“The great thing about democracy is that it gives every voter a chance to do something stupid.”-Art Spander

“The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.”- Churchhill

“A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.”-Thomas Jefferson

Good points all, but occasionally the American people do get their dander up. And I don't think it's unreasonable to question devices that are so easily manipulated as the voting machines are. Did you watch the doc? I couldn't believe it.

[Original_Intent]

TPTB don't care about parties. Look at the history of the Bildeberg meetings. This isn't about one party having control over the voting ballot. It's about tptb picking and choosing their puppets.

Usually they just make sure we are choosing between two of their puppets, then there is no need for any fraud.

[Vessol]

Usually they just make sure we are choosing between two of their puppets, then there is no need for any fraud.

Exactly.

Yay pre-filtered candidates..

Andrew Jackson was our best president. Besides ole' Hickory being a badass, he also fought against the real enemy. The banking elite.

[Deborah K]

Usually they just make sure we are choosing between two of their puppets, then there is no need for any fraud.

But look at it this way....if Dodd is the puppet, then people like Schiff (and Rand) can't win no matter what if voters have to use diebold machines.

[Vessol]

But look at it this way....if Dodd is the puppet, then people like Schiff (and Rand) can't win no matter what if voters have to use diebold machines.

Very good point.

Voter fraud would only really be useful currently on the local and state level.

[Deborah K]

Bump

[Deborah K]

We need to keep this info on the forefront of our minds. Next November is sooner than you think and voter fraud is a reality. We HAVE to address this.