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View Full Version : Is Glenn Beck a Disciple of Crackpot Ron Paul? (David Horowitz Alert)




RonPaulFanInGA
09-17-2009, 08:31 AM
http://newsrealblog.com/2009/09/15/is-glenn-beck-a-disciple-of-crackpot-ron-paul/

In the recent dialogue between David Frum and David Horowitz about the place of Glenn Beck and other bold talkers in the Conservative Movement Frum shot out a claim which threw Horowitz off guard:


Third – how do we define “our side”? Horowitz harshly condemns Obama appointee Van Jones. Van Jones was eventually forced to resign not because of any of the allegations Glenn Beck hurled at him, but because the Gateway Pundit blog unearthed evidence that Van Jones had consorted with 9/11 denialists. So that’s the other side, right? Except… the American politician who most closely associates with 9/11 denialists is Congressman and former presidential candidate Ron Paul. And who acts as Paul’s chief TV enthusiast and publicist? Glenn Beck of course.

Horowitz was puzzled by Frum’s charge that Beck embraced the embarrassing Paul:


Ron Paul is a crackpot, a conspiracy nut and a public menace. His crank views of the economy have a lot of Republicans snookered enough to ignore the fact that he is an anti-Semite and an America-hater — fundamentally at odds with America’s role in the world as the guardian of freedom. I have to confess that I am not familiar with Beck’s promotion of Paul. If David wants to engage this I would have to review Beck’s statements about Paul first.

RonPaulFanInGA
09-17-2009, 08:33 AM
Beck is our biggest ally in the media and is drawing all kinds of people we could win over into his ever-increasingly popular show.

Yet some here would rather bash him with a thread here every single time he says a sentence they don't like and push him away. It's like some revel in being a fringe 1% type and don't want us to grow in size, in the name of a non-existent purity.

MRoCkEd
09-17-2009, 08:36 AM
Wow. Fuck Horowitz and Frum!

johnrocks
09-17-2009, 08:37 AM
God knows I detest both David Frum and David Horowitz, they are both former socialists, if anyone has snookered anyone,it's those two two bastards, they are embraced by some "conservatives" , makes me want to puke.

Elwar
09-17-2009, 08:37 AM
It looks like Horowitz is trying to distance the inside man, Glenn Beck, from Ron Paul...perhaps he didn't get the memo on Beck's true intentions.

brandon
09-17-2009, 08:41 AM
"9/11 denialists?" That's a new one. I hope both of these assholes get brain cancer.

angelatc
09-17-2009, 09:06 AM
I say let's push buttons. We have nothing to lose. Everybody should send Whorowitz this link - YouTube - Glenn Beck, The 912 Project -09-12-09-C (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phUxP_br-zI) and cry about Israel being endangered by Beck's advocation of non-interventionism.

If that meme spreads it help us define whether we should call his fans Beckheads or Beckerheads.

Liberty Star
09-17-2009, 09:26 AM
Hardcore neocons are suddenly questioning Beck's loyalty because he had tried to go after an Obama czar who may be a neocon's man:


Whose Side is Glenn Beck On?

September 14th, 2009 at 12:10 pm by David Frum

I have a lot of time for David Horowitz. He has written important books and a fine memoir. His organizational work on college campuses commands respect.

For those reasons, I am grieved to see that his attempted rebuttal of my post below on Glenn Beck conforms exactly to the pattern I described in my original piece.


Notorious neocon "axis of evil" Frum not happy with Glenn suddenly. They loved him as long as he was pushing their agenda, suddenly turn on him as soon as he tries to expose Cass after Van Jones.

Cowlesy
09-17-2009, 09:56 AM
I give Horowitz credit...he's doing his best to put a wedge between Beck and Dr. Paul. Horowitz was on Beck last night pontificating and yelling like he usually does while advocating neo-conservatism.

The neo-cons see that this is their chance to hi-jack the movement and they'll do everything they can (probably at the top of the list is discredit the Champion of the Constitution) to peel off the limited government contingent.

Cowlesy
09-17-2009, 10:01 AM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_XDLnpGlOHFU/Slj3T24bGRI/AAAAAAAADpw/DZhMyU17hw8/s400/100_4737.JPG

David Frum on the far left, with Hannah Giles (the prostie in the ACORN films next to him).

I hope she doesn't fall for these neo-con BS, especially as an impressionable 20 year old.

Liberty Star
09-17-2009, 10:07 AM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_XDLnpGlOHFU/Slj3T24bGRI/AAAAAAAADpw/DZhMyU17hw8/s400/100_4737.JPG

David Frum on the far left, with Hannah Giles (the prostie in the ACORN films next to him).

I hope she doesn't fall for these neo-con BS, especially as an impressionable 20 year old.


Was she the "Monica Lweinsky" of ACORN and a warning to Obama?

Why would neocons be suddenly putting pressure on Obama, because of his pressure on Israel over holy land settlement issue?

It's funny, lately Obama hasn't said a word as Natanyahoo defies him publicly over settlement freeze on arab land. Plot thickens.

yokna7
09-17-2009, 10:12 AM
"9/11 denialists?" That's a new one. I hope both of these assholes get brain cancer.

Not really, I've heard the association several times before. Oreilly accused Ron of being a truther during his presidential run. Utter ignorance.

paulitics
09-17-2009, 10:14 AM
Horowitz is a piece of trash. He is a racist (slurs against muslims, islamofascist, etc) calls RP an antisemite (slander), and then goes on Glenn Beck to bitch about how everyone is too politically incorrect especially the "antisemite" Jimmy Carter.

This guy is so inconsistant he makes my head spin.

Conza88
09-17-2009, 10:15 AM
ally in the media [MSM]

No such thing.

Sandra
09-17-2009, 10:15 AM
Horowitz is a piece of trash. He is a racist (slurs against muslims, islamofascist, etc) calls RP an antisemite (slander), and then goes on Glenn Beck to bitch about how everyone is too politically incorrect especially the "antisemite" Jimmy Carter.

This guy is so inconsistant he makes my head spin.

Sorta like.... Glen Beck.

BillyDkid
09-17-2009, 10:15 AM
I don't like to demonize people because their politics differ from mine, but my feelings are that both Frum and Horowitz are evil human beings. You know how when you go to a meeting and there is always at least one person with a hidden agenda and that agenda generally amounts to preventing consensus and derailing discussions and promulgating friction - there's always at least one person like that - these two guys are these kind of people to the extreme.

Elwar
09-17-2009, 10:19 AM
Horowitz was on Beck last night pontificating and yelling like he usually does while advocating neo-conservatism.


Wait...does that make Glenn Beck a neo-con then? The theory around here is that because Glenn Beck has Ron and Rand on his show occassionally, he's a supporter.

What does it mean when he has neo-cons on his show?

Cowlesy
09-17-2009, 10:21 AM
Wait...does that make Glenn Beck a neo-con then? The theory around here is that because Glenn Beck has Ron and Rand on his show occassionally, he's a supporter.

What does it mean when he has neo-cons on his show?

It means he presents different viewpoints. I don't count Beck as on our side or against it.

His sticking point has always been he's too in-bed with the neo-cons to just cut bait --- look how they're flaming him even for associating with Ron Paul. Beck has neo-cons on the left screaming at him to dump the limited government/ron paul folks, and the limited government/ron paul folks to his right telling him to ditch the neo-cons.

RonPaulFanInGA
09-17-2009, 10:55 AM
No such thing.

"Get lost Beck! I enjoy my fringe status!"

Conza88
09-17-2009, 10:56 AM
"Get lost Beck! I enjoy my fringe status!"

Yeah, your fringe status. Not mine. Nor Ron Paul's.

RM918
09-17-2009, 11:06 AM
"Get lost Beck! I enjoy my fringe status!"

If you're just offering a choice between simply not trusting Beck meaning hating him or hailing Glenn Beck as a hero and telling everyone you know to watch him, I'll always choose the former over the latter.

Deborah K
09-17-2009, 11:08 AM
http://newsrealblog.com/2009/09/15/is-glenn-beck-a-disciple-of-crackpot-ron-paul/

In the recent dialogue between David Frum and David Horowitz about the place of Glenn Beck and other bold talkers in the Conservative Movement Frum shot out a claim which threw Horowitz off guard:



Horowitz was puzzled by Frum’s charge that Beck embraced the embarrassing Paul:




Except… the American politician who most closely associates with 9/11 denialists is Congressman and former presidential candidate Ron Paul. And who acts as Paul’s chief TV enthusiast and publicist? Glenn Beck of course.

How can anyone watch this interview and accuse Ron Paul of being a truther? His reaction is so genuine:


YouTube - Pt 6 RON PAUL on Glenn Beck Show for a FULL HOUR Dec 18, '07 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I13gK7EGWzg&feature=related)


I guess he's guilty by association. I am so sick of people calling Dr. Paul a crackpot!!!!

LibertyEagle
09-17-2009, 11:12 AM
It means he presents different viewpoints. I don't count Beck as on our side or against it.

+1

Brian4Liberty
09-17-2009, 11:39 AM
How can anyone watch this interview and accuse Ron Paul of being a truther? His reaction is so genuine:


We are all "truthers" now. That is the new neo-con smear campaign. Oppose big government? You're a truther. Oppose the Fed? You're a truther. Oppose policing the world? You're a truther. Oppose socialism? You're a truther.




http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=209889

Yes, some "truthers" are terribly misguided. But there are a million shades of "truthers" out there, and they have managed to paint anyone who questions anything related to 9/11 with the exact same brush. That is the subtle propaganda war that Krauthammer is conducting here.

Can you even question what was going on at the FBI and CIA when all of the puzzle pieces were in their laps, and they ignored them? It was probably shear incompetence, politics and political correctness, but can you even ask that simple question anymore?

I don't know a lot about Van Jones or what his 9/11 positions were/are. But we know that anyone who remotely asks a question can now be run out of town. Krauthammer is trying to enforce and expand that idea. Set the precedent and apply the label broadly and liberally.

jmdrake
09-17-2009, 11:44 AM
Beck is our biggest ally in the media and is drawing all kinds of people we could win over into his ever-increasingly popular show.

Yet some here would rather bash him with a thread here every single time he says a sentence they don't like and push him away. It's like some revel in being a fringe 1% type and don't want us to grow in size, in the name of a non-existent purity.

Wow! You start off a thread with a halfway decent post that might actually bring unity but then you follow it up with this tripe. :rolleyes:

Let's see. I remember a year ago some people fawning all over a "reformed neocon" who was supposed to be the new "leader of the liberty movement". We were all supposed to overlook his checkered past. When he snubbed Ron Paul because Ron didn't play ball the way he wanted to, some here went so far as to attack Ron Paul. Those who didn't trust this particular reformed neocon were accused of not being "committed to liberty" and "wanting to remain in the fringe" and being "fundies" etc. Ultimately this reformed neocon betrayed the liberty movement by writing a letter endorsing the nomination Barack Obama's gun grabbing attorney general! The reformed neocon I'm talking about is, of course, Bob Barr. Maybe you're right. Maybe Glenn Beck is the best thing since sliced cheese. Then again maybe his an opportunist like Barr who ultimately caused more harm than good. I initially defended (though NEVER supported) Barr. I was wrong. Those who attacked Barr were right. Once Barr showed his true colors with his Holder endorsement people finally started shutting up about him.

Defend Barr all you want, but don't attack others simply because they aren't ready to put past experience (and current Beck histrionics) aside.

Deborah K
09-17-2009, 11:53 AM
We are all "truthers" now. That is the new neo-con smear campaign. Oppose big government? You're a truther. Oppose the Fed? You're a truther. Oppose policing the world? You're a truther. Oppose socialism? You're a truther.

Oh, so now I'm a racist and a truther. These people can't come up with a viable argument against our position so they resort to name calling. How original. :rolleyes:

s35wf
09-17-2009, 12:54 PM
Beck is on TV and is an ENTERTAINER and fox/cnn/msnbc whoever it is is Only interested in Ratings & Advertising $$$!

They/He will have all different kinds of programming, sides, agenda at differnt times; so get over it. GB is neither friend nor foe he is a Entertainer!

Vessol
09-17-2009, 12:55 PM
I'd consider Ron Paul a borderline truther, he wants a new investigation, which anyone with a right mind should want.

paulitics
09-17-2009, 01:33 PM
We are all "truthers" now. That is the new neo-con smear campaign. Oppose big government? You're a truther. Oppose the Fed? You're a truther. Oppose policing the world? You're a truther. Oppose socialism? You're a truther.

I would say everyone is an "er" of some sort. Have questions on 911, you are a truther. Oppose Obama, you are a "birther". Oppose the fed government's intrusion on the states, you are a "10ther". Oppose Cap and Trade, you are a global warming deni-er, and probably a holocost deni-er.

What an Orweillian society we live in, where truth is treason in an empire of lies.

jmdrake
09-17-2009, 01:39 PM
I would say everyone is an "er" of some sort. Have questions on 911, you are a truther. Oppose Obama, you are a "birther". Oppose the fed government's intrusion on the states, you are a "10ther". Oppose Cap and Trade, you are a global warming deni-er, and probably a holocost deni-er.

What an Orweillian society we live in, where truth is treason in an empire of lies.

I saw the term "10ther" the other day but I didn't know what it meant. So know there are slurs for standing up for the bill of rights. :rolleyes: If you believe in free speech are you a "1ster"? If you support the right to bear arms are you a "2nder"? Are those who object to government intrusions into your home "3rders" or "4thers"? Sad world we live in.

YumYum
09-17-2009, 01:40 PM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_XDLnpGlOHFU/Slj3T24bGRI/AAAAAAAADpw/DZhMyU17hw8/s400/100_4737.JPG

David Frum on the far left, with Hannah Giles (the prostie in the ACORN films next to him).

I hope she doesn't fall for these neo-con BS, especially as an impressionable 20 year old.

Who is the shiktsa on the right?

Deborah K
09-17-2009, 01:45 PM
Who is the shiktsa on the right?

Are you implying the rest are jewish?

Bman
09-17-2009, 01:47 PM
How can anyone watch this interview and accuse Ron Paul of being a truther? His reaction is so genuine:

I guess he's guilty by association. I am so sick of people calling Dr. Paul a crackpot!!!!

No shit. The problem I see is that Ron is a nice guy, and will let you believe what you want to believe, believeing that ideas must live or die on their own merit. As such the people who do have some really crazy ideas use this as wagon to seem legitimate in their beliefs when their belief are absolutley absurd.

Such as when you were going crazy on the birther stuff.:p

Deborah K
09-17-2009, 01:53 PM
No shit. The problem I see is that Ron is a nice guy, and will let you believe what you want to believe, believeing that ideas must live or die on their own merit. As such the people who do have some really crazy ideas use this as wagon to seem legitimate in their beliefs when their belief are absolutley absurd.

Such as when you were going crazy on the birther stuff.:p

I see. Asking legitimate questions and having an opinion that differs from yours qualifies as "going crazy". :rolleyes:

I never attached my opinions about Obama's secrecy where his birth and school records are concerned to Dr. Paul, now did I. Show me where I used "this wagon". Asshole!

Bman
09-17-2009, 01:57 PM
I see. Asking legitimate questions and having an opinion that differs from yours qualifies as "going crazy". :rolleyes:

I never attached my opinions about Obama's secrecy where his birth and school records are concerned to Dr. Paul, now did I. Show me where I used "this wagon". Asshole!

Ouch. No need for profanities. You certainly used this forum. You never claimed Dr. Paul believed such which makes you better than a truther, but still put it in an area that caused this to be a question presented to any Ron Paul supporter. I.e. making us look like a bunch of nuts.

You have to know where to fight your battles and what you call legitimate is nothing more than a witch hunt. You asked questions with no proof.

Peace&Freedom
09-17-2009, 02:07 PM
Maybe Glenn Beck is the best thing since sliced cheese. Then again maybe his an opportunist like Barr who ultimately caused more harm than good. I initially defended (though NEVER supported) Barr. I was wrong. Those who attacked Barr were right. Once Barr showed his true colors with his Holder endorsement people finally started shutting up about him.

Defend Barr all you want, but don't attack others simply because they aren't ready to put past experience (and current Beck histrionics) aside.

Barr's endorsement of Holder is indeed indefensible. I plead guilty to giving barr the benefit of the doubt, and working for his campaign (as a practical matter) to help build the LP last year, but I'm not proud of discussing the subject these days. The test for my EVER trusting Beck is to see him apologize for bashing Paul supporters and truthers in 2007 and 2008, when it mattered. No apologies, no trust. Fool me once....

Flash
09-17-2009, 02:08 PM
I can't wait until Ron Paul is on Glenn Beck again. He was suppose to be on yesterday but he got rescheduled.

tonesforjonesbones
09-17-2009, 02:14 PM
I'm quite sure they are all jewish..not one shiksta or whatever they call goy women...it's an UGLY term though ,whatever. The truth is, Horowitz and Frum are zionists...Ron Pauls real demise was when he said what he said about not sending israel any more money and his talk on the house floor about the neoconservatives and started making people aware of it. It has NOTHING to do with the"truther" stuff, that's just what they use. It's all about israel for these people. tones

Cowlesy
09-17-2009, 02:17 PM
I'm quite sure they are all jewish. tones

You would be quite wrong, sorry.

Deborah K
09-17-2009, 02:22 PM
Ouch. No need for profanities. You certainly used this forum. You never claimed Dr. Paul believed such which makes you better than a truther, but still put it in an area that caused this to be a question presented to any Ron Paul supporter. I.e. making us look like a bunch of nuts.

You have to know where to fight your battles and what you call legitimate is nothing more than a witch hunt. You asked questions with no proof.

I provided sources (not evidence- in case you try to confuse the two) to back up my assertions and I defended my assertions. The above is just your irrelevant opinion. I don't need lectures from you! And why don't you try applying something other than a double standard. On the one hand you say:


Ron is a nice guy, and will let you believe what you want to believe, believeing that ideas must live or die on their own merit.

and then you say:


but still put it in an area that caused this to be a question presented to any Ron Paul supporter. I.e. making us look like a bunch of nuts.

You have to know where to fight your battles and what you call legitimate is nothing more than a witch hunt. You asked questions with no proof

angelatc
09-17-2009, 02:24 PM
You would be quite wrong, sorry.

Maybe she has some Jewdar thing. Like gaydar, you know?

tonesforjonesbones
09-17-2009, 02:31 PM
How do you know they aren't all jewish? tones

Cowlesy
09-17-2009, 02:34 PM
How do you know they aren't all jewish? tones

Because I know the source of the photo. Besides, if you turn this into some collectivist-religious base thing, this discussion is going nowhere. What would you say if they were all christian z-ists?

BillyDkid
09-17-2009, 03:04 PM
I'd consider Ron Paul a borderline truther, he wants a new investigation, which anyone with a right mind should want.That's a little misleading. Ron doesn't believe the government was involved in 9/11 - only that 1)They created the conditions that inspired the terrorists and 2)They ignored what should have been obvious warnings about a coming attack. He argues that the government was negligent, not complicit.

Condi herself, total imbecile that she apparently is, said that nobody had any idea someone might fly planes into buildings. Complete and total horseshit.

jmdrake
09-17-2009, 04:44 PM
That's a little misleading. Ron doesn't believe the government was involved in 9/11 - only that 1)They created the conditions that inspired the terrorists and 2)They ignored what should have been obvious warnings about a coming attack. He argues that the government was negligent, not complicit.

Condi herself, total imbecile that she apparently is, said that nobody had any idea someone might fly planes into buildings. Complete and total horseshit.

:rolleyes: One thing that Condi Rice is NOT is an imbecile. You don't get to have a supertanker named after you or become a provost at Stanford for being stupid. And her statement that "nobody ever thought of airplanes as flying bombs" quit was the official line of the entire Bush administration! She's simply the only one that had to say it under oath. (Remember Bush and Cheney were allowed testify together and not under oath.)

This is the problem with the "incompetence theory". It lets provably brilliant and people off the hook for any accountability. We don't want to believe anybody who doesn't wear a turban or isn't a communist is "evil" so when inexcusable events happen we want to chalk it up to "incompetence". The fact is that there were NORAD war games simulating the attacks on the days leading up to and on 9/11.

http://911research.wtc7.net/cache/planes/defense/aviationnow_jumpstart.htm

Now clearly somebody authorized those wargames. But who? The 9/11 commission never bothered to ask and Donald Rumsfeld refused to answer the few people brave enough to ask.

YouTube - McKinney Grills Rumsfeld (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eootfzAhAoU)

RonPaulFanInGA
09-17-2009, 05:31 PM
Wow! You start off a thread with a halfway decent post that might actually bring unity but then you follow it up with this tripe. :rolleyes:

Let's see. I remember a year ago some people fawning all over a "reformed neocon" who was supposed to be the new "leader of the liberty movement". We were all supposed to overlook his checkered past. When he snubbed Ron Paul because Ron didn't play ball the way he wanted to, some here went so far as to attack Ron Paul. Those who didn't trust this particular reformed neocon were accused of not being "committed to liberty" and "wanting to remain in the fringe" and being "fundies" etc. Ultimately this reformed neocon betrayed the liberty movement by writing a letter endorsing the nomination Barack Obama's gun grabbing attorney general! The reformed neocon I'm talking about is, of course, Bob Barr. Maybe you're right. Maybe Glenn Beck is the best thing since sliced cheese. Then again maybe his an opportunist like Barr who ultimately caused more harm than good. I initially defended (though NEVER supported) Barr. I was wrong. Those who attacked Barr were right. Once Barr showed his true colors with his Holder endorsement people finally started shutting up about him.

You realize you play into the neoconservatives' hands, right?

From here (http://themunz.blogspot.com/2009/09/ron-pauls-supporters-hate-glenn-beck.html):


Expanding on my post yesterday refuting David Frum’s cockamamie notion of Glenn Beck as some sort of Ron Paul cheerleader, I now add this new piece of evidence to the table.

Over at Daily Paul, the fan site for the crackpot congressman, they featured the following video which collects many of Beck’s anti-Paul remarks:

(see video at link -- Glenn Beck is a neocon)

Ask yourself: why do the neocons want so desperately to believe Beck hates Paul? Because they love Beck and know he is popular and cannot bring themselves to accept it.

Beck has been preaching non-interventionism and has said good things about Paul. No he is not perfect, but for God's sake, some of you unappeaseables need to take what you get and learn about 'compromise' sometime. You're never going to get a popular, 100% media friend.

Flash
09-17-2009, 05:34 PM
Expanding on my post yesterday refuting David Frum’s cockamamie notion of Glenn Beck as some sort of Ron Paul cheerleader

Why do Liberal-Republicans/Neo-Cons act like such children? They use words like 'cockamamie' and in Horowitzs' case accuse anyone of dislike funding of Israel to be 'zOMG anti-semitic!1!11 u HATE DA jooooooos" The same exact tactics the Liberals in the MSM, like Olbermann, use when they can't present a reasonable arguement. Thus they shortern everything down to these keywords:
-- Racist
-- Anti-Semite
-- Crazy
-- Wackos
-- Teabaggers
-- Ron Paul 'cheerleader'
etc...

And in return expect their followers to react to these keywords like sheep. I just find it funny Liberals in both parties act exactly the same.

RonPaulFanInGA
09-17-2009, 05:43 PM
I give Horowitz credit...he's doing his best to put a wedge between Beck and Dr. Paul.

And of course we have some of our own people cheerleading that wedge on. Fools.

Flash
09-17-2009, 05:45 PM
And of course we have some of our own people cheerleading that wedge on. Fools.

Absolutely. Ron Paul is suppose to be on Glenn Beck's show pretty soon to promote his End the Fed book. Hopefully Beck will confess to being a Ron Paul supporter so these fringe out-of-touch group of Liberal-Republicans can return to their obscure blogs and moan & whine about Beck and our movement. That's where they sure belong, as it's apparent from Beck's ratings that Neo-Cons just aren't popular amongst the average American.

Sandra
09-17-2009, 05:48 PM
And of course we have some of our own people cheerleading that wedge on. Fools.

Fell into the Murdoch echo chamber. Becomes media whore. Sad.

jmdrake
09-17-2009, 05:58 PM
You realize you play into the neoconservatives' hands, right?


No. I think you are. Is it not possible for you to promote Beck without going into an attack against those who are still skeptical about Beck? You are being needlessly divisive. The last time we had this kind of discussion it was over Bob Barr. Guess what? Bob Barr ended up betraying us all by supporting gun grabber Eric Holder! Is Beck being more helpful than hurtful at this time? Maybe (discounting all of the division being done in his name.) But there's still good reason to be skeptical.

Regards,

John M. Drake

BlackTerrel
09-17-2009, 06:02 PM
Except… the American politician who most closely associates with 9/11 denialists is Congressman and former presidential candidate Ron Paul.

Ron Paul has never said anything that would classify him as a "truther" which is what Horowitz is trying to say. Sounds like slander.

Flash
09-17-2009, 06:02 PM
I disliked Barr from the beginning, especially after he began exiling 'White Nationalists' from supporting him. Since when should a Presidential candidate judge the people giving him money? Even though he doesn't agree with their views, his "dont' let the door hit you on your way out" comment was pretty gross.

With that said I can tell Glenn Beck is absolutely no Neo-Con. If he was, he wouldn't rant against the Federal Reserve. He wouldn't have Rand Paul, Ron Paul, or Peter Schiff on his show at all. Period!

BlackTerrel
09-17-2009, 06:04 PM
How do you know they aren't all jewish? tones

Tones this always seems to be an issue for you.

Sandra
09-17-2009, 06:04 PM
No. I think you are. Is it not possible for you to promote Beck without going into an attack against those who are still skeptical about Beck? You are being needlessly divisive. The last time we had this kind of discussion it was over Bob Barr. Guess what? Bob Barr ended up betraying us all by supporting gun grabber Eric Holder! Is Beck being more helpful than hurtful at this time? Maybe (discounting all of the division being done in his name.) But there's still good reason to be skeptical.

Regards,

John M. Drake

May I quote you on your hypocritical post:


And of course we have some of our own people cheerleading that wedge on. Fools.

heavenlyboy34
09-17-2009, 06:05 PM
Why do Liberal-Republicans/Neo-Cons act like such children? They use words like 'cockamamie' and in Horowitzs' case accuse anyone of dislike funding of Israel to be 'zOMG anti-semitic!1!11 u HATE DA jooooooos" The same exact tactics the Liberals in the MSM, like Olbermann, use when they can't present a reasonable arguement. Thus they shortern everything down to these keywords:
-- Racist
-- Anti-Semite
-- Crazy
-- Wackos
-- Teabaggers
-- Ron Paul 'cheerleader'
etc...

And in return expect their followers to react to these keywords like sheep. I just find it funny Liberals in both parties act exactly the same.


In my experience, this is because they do not have their reasoning grounded in solid logic and facts. :p

BlackTerrel
09-17-2009, 06:05 PM
I disliked Barr from the beginning, especially after he began exiling 'White Nationalists' from supporting him. Since when should a Presidential candidate judge the people giving him money? Even though he doesn't agree with their views, his "dont' let the door hit you on your way out" comment was pretty gross.

With that said I can tell Glenn Beck is absolutely no Neo-Con. If he was, he wouldn't rant against the Federal Reserve. He wouldn't have Rand Paul, Ron Paul, or Peter Schiff on his show at all. Period!

I think that's actually pretty smart. Why not tell white supremacists exactly what he thinks of them? I imagine he'd do the same if he was endorsed by NAMBLA.

jmdrake
09-17-2009, 06:07 PM
May I quote you on your hypocritical post:

Sure.

Mini-Me
09-17-2009, 06:08 PM
You realize you play into the neoconservatives' hands, right?

From here (http://themunz.blogspot.com/2009/09/ron-pauls-supporters-hate-glenn-beck.html):



Ask yourself: why do the neocons want so desperately to believe Beck hates Paul? Because they love Beck and know he is popular and cannot bring themselves to accept it.

Beck has been preaching non-interventionism and has said good things about Paul. No he is not perfect, but for God's sake, some of you unappeaseables need to take what you get and learn about 'compromise' sometime. You're never going to get a popular, 100% media friend.

I think you're misreading the people who disagree with you on this. There are two problems far bigger than ideological purity:

First, while Glenn Beck appeals to the conservative base, he really, really alienates the liberal base, who are beginning to confuse libertarians with neocons more and more (an attitude which liberal partisans are encouraging). That's why we're seeing things like this (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=210337). While it's important we draw mainstream support from the conservative base, it's also important that we eventually draw mainstream support from the liberal base (particularly the civil libertarians). We absolutely must remain visibly distinct from the neocons on policy matters if we ever want any hope of swaying liberals. In a similar vein, Glenn Beck's entertainer status and showmanship is a liability here, because it makes him look irrational and unstable...and this is while he's associating himself with libertarianism. I'm sure you understand the danger here, considering the way people fallaciously associate the merits of ideas with the merits of their proponents.

Second, I think a lot of us are keeping our distance in fear of a double-cross (and some are totally confident it's only a matter of time). Although Beck is useful to us at the moment and might be growing into a genuine ally without ulterior motives, we don't know that for sure, and supporting him without reservation could backfire. For all we know, he could literally turn on us and support the neocons at any moment, and he very well may once Fox News is confident the Republicans have recaptured their base. If we vouch for Glenn Beck too strongly right now without urging caution, he might end up steering them right back towards the neocons come primary season. If this happens, our previous testimony about his credibility will work against us.

Basically, Beck is a double-edged sword.

Sandra
09-17-2009, 06:08 PM
I disliked Barr from the beginning, especially after he began exiling 'White Nationalists' from supporting him. Since when should a Presidential candidate judge the people giving him money? Even though he doesn't agree with their views, his "dont' let the door hit you on your way out" comment was pretty gross.

With that said I can tell Glenn Beck is absolutely no Neo-Con. If he was, he wouldn't rant against the Federal Reserve. He wouldn't have Rand Paul, Ron Paul, or Peter Schiff on his show at all. Period!

O'Reilly had Paul on. What conclusion do you draw from that?

Flash
09-17-2009, 06:09 PM
If we vouch for Glenn Beck too strongly right now without urging caution, he might end up steering them back towards the neocons come primary season.

Which is why in the mean time we should do our best to get Freedom Watch on cable & promote John Stossel.

jmdrake
09-17-2009, 06:10 PM
I think that's actually pretty smart. Why not tell white supremacists exactly what he thinks of them? I imagine he'd do the same if he was endorsed by NAMBLA.

+1

Flash
09-17-2009, 06:13 PM
I think that's actually pretty smart. Why not tell white supremacists exactly what he thinks of them? I imagine he'd do the same if he was endorsed by NAMBLA.

He could tell them what he thinks of the ideology. But to deny money from them is pretty retarded, all because he disagrees with their views. When did Ron Paul refuse donations from WNs? It seems like Bob Bar wanted to rule the 'Liberty movement' under an iron fist. This was evident when he bitched at Ron Paul for attempting a quadruple endorsement. He cared about politics more than ideology.

Never to mind there were Communist groups donating to Obama, and yet the MSM was strangely silent.

RonPaulFanInGA
09-17-2009, 06:20 PM
If we vouch for Glenn Beck too strongly right now without urging caution, he might end up steering them right back towards the neocons come primary season. If this happens, our previous testimony about his credibility will work against us.

Give people more credit than that. Most can and will see such a dramatic shift. If he goes from promoting Ron Paul one day to endorsing Mitt Romney in 2012, people will know.

Mini-Me
09-17-2009, 06:33 PM
Give people more credit than that. Most can and will see such a dramatic shift. If he goes from promoting Ron Paul one day to endorsing Mitt Romney in 2012, people will know.

Heh...I've learned never to underestimate the stupidity of the public. Remember how George W. Bush campaigned on a humble foreign policy? The conservative base didn't even notice his complete 180 while he was office, and they endorsed hyper-interventionism and preemptive war without batting an eye. Similarly, the left seems quite silent about Obama perpetuating the wars and police state. Based on casual observation, I think that people identify too much with the messenger and trust that person or organization over the message itself. If Beck changes his tune again - especially as both he and the left blur the distinction between neoconservatism and libertarianism* - I'm afraid the conservative base will just continue trusting him, thinking his own changes were a natural progression towards "correct thinking." Basically, I think most people like being spoonfed their opinions by someone on TV who appeals to them emotionally.

*which will obviously make the shift appear less dramatic to half-awake conservatives. Remember who comprises Glenn Beck's audience. Sadly, conservatives are still very hesitant to adopt an anti-interventionist foreign policy or dismantle the police state. Given the chance and a TV pundit they trust prodding them, they will happily regress back into their old ways if they think the new neocon candidates might be more fiscally responsible than Bush was.

tonesforjonesbones
09-17-2009, 07:17 PM
Cowlsey I would have said the same thing..

Terrell..it is. Yes. tones

jmdrake
09-17-2009, 07:53 PM
Give people more credit than that. Most can and will see such a dramatic shift. If he goes from promoting Ron Paul one day to endorsing Mitt Romney in 2012, people will know.

And if he endorses Sarah Palin?

Bman
09-17-2009, 10:04 PM
and then you say:

That wasn't a double standard sweetie. That was me pointing out you lack the facilities for logical thought.

In your birther quest you presented nothing but an ability to grasp at straws when things don't go your way. Kind of like your behaviour at being angered that someone dare challenge your thought process, well don't expect me to be the nice guy. I'm just goint to tell you how it is. Not my problem if you can't handle the truth. You want to point fingers, well maybe you shouldn't.

Flash
09-17-2009, 10:11 PM
And if he endorses Sarah Palin?

He can't endorse any candidate since he's under FOX contract. He could however have Mitt or Ron Paul on his show often. Most likely he'll have Ron Paul on quite a bit if he decides to run in 2012. That's just my opinion.

BlackTerrel
09-18-2009, 01:05 AM
He could tell them what he thinks of the ideology. But to deny money from them is pretty retarded, all because he disagrees with their views. When did Ron Paul refuse donations from WNs? It seems like Bob Bar wanted to rule the 'Liberty movement' under an iron fist. This was evident when he bitched at Ron Paul for attempting a quadruple endorsement. He cared about politics more than ideology.

I'm actually not that big a fan of Bob Barr and could come up with a lot of issues that I have with him.

However refusing money from white supremacists is not on that list.

Deborah K
09-18-2009, 07:51 AM
That wasn't a double standard sweetie. That was me pointing out you lack the facilities for logical thought.

In your birther quest you presented nothing but an ability to grasp at straws when things don't go your way. Kind of like your behaviour at being angered that someone dare challenge your thought process, well don't expect me to be the nice guy. I'm just goint to tell you how it is. Not my problem if you can't handle the truth. You want to point fingers, well maybe you shouldn't.



It was most definitely a double standard. You were cutting truthers slack (using your take on how RP handles them) and then slamming me - out of the blue I might add. Double - Standard. And knock off the "birther quest" BS. I chimed in with very different observations than what the standard accusations were, namely that he signed an executive order the day after he was inaugurated making his birth cert and school records off limits to the general public. NOT typical of a President. I have never made any statement that I believe he in NOT a citizen, only that he is not forthcoming about his past and that leaves room for doubt for anyone with a brain and the guts to ask the pertinent follow-up.

You came on this thread and attacked me with no provocation. You got what you had coming. Take it like a man.

Bman
09-18-2009, 03:08 PM
You got what you had coming. Take it like a man.

Ha. How about owning up to the fact that you were being a hypocrite. You don't want Ron to be called a crackpot? Maybe a little self reflection at times would serve you well. I came after you because you were blaming people for Ron being called a crackpot when you participate in the same type of action that gets Ron Paul called a crackpot.

Deborah K
09-18-2009, 03:46 PM
Ha. How about owning up to the fact that you were being a hypocrite. You don't want Ron to be called a crackpot? Maybe a little self reflection at times would serve you well. I came after you because you were blaming people for Ron being called a crackpot when you participate in the same type of action that gets Ron Paul called a crackpot.

I call Bullshit!!! The birthers weren't even around when he was campaigning. And no one is attaching the birther movement to him now. And there you go again with your double standard. If you are going to invoke RP and his reputation, and then state that he believes people's arguments will stand or fall on their own merit (referring to the truthers), then you should use the same premise for the birthers.

My personal opinions don't reflect poorly on Ron Paul. They don't affect him in any way. I don't consider myself part of the birther movement because I don't do any action in that regard. Plus as I stated before, my observations are not in line with that movement. You can keep trying to paint me as a birther but you're just making yourself look like you have some sort of agenda.

angelatc
09-18-2009, 07:13 PM
And now, for something completely different.

Frum II: http://anonym.to/?http://www.newmajority.com/glenn-beck-and-ron-paul

Bman
09-19-2009, 02:11 AM
And no one is attaching the birther movement to him now.

Sure that's why when William Kostric was on Chris Matthews he asked if he was a birther. It's not that they are tagging Ron Paul as a birther, but they certainly are to his supporters because of studpid rhetoric like yours back in the day. You want to dig up the posts? You probably posted 5 to 1 when compared to anyone else when it came to that topic.

And yeah I'm a bit pissed when they call Ron a crackpot or the poeple in his movement, and then I have to hear someone complain about that fact when they have been part of the problem. Yeah I have an agenda. One that people think before they run off on some looney bin idea of a cause and make us all look like friggin retards.


I would have left it go with the first post but you calling me an asshole, in combination with your thick headedness is just too much to let pass.

Immortal Technique
09-19-2009, 07:03 AM
YouTube - Neo Conned Ron Paul Ledeen exc 1x2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M18WHMktmHE)

catdd
09-19-2009, 08:48 AM
" Horowitz described Paul as “a crackpot, a conspiracy nut and a public menace… an anti-Semite and an America-hater.”

Yeah, and I describe Horowitz as a lying, filthy, anti-America, neocon pig.... a menace to world peace and a neurotic wacko.

Flash
09-19-2009, 02:12 PM
By the way it is funny hearing people using the word 'anti-semitic.' Hasn't there been enough education on what the word 'Semitic' means? I guess the Public School system doesn't work afterall. Unless David is implying Ron Paul has a secret linguistic deep-seeded vendetta against those who speak Arabic. For someone who is Jewish (right?) their understanding of the word 'Semite' is rather embarassing. Perhaps they should take a course in history or at least use Wikipedia. Or may be try reading a page in the Torah lol.

Yes, I'm Anti-Semitic. I can't stand those people who speak Arabic, Hebrew, or Aramean! Damn them! The only people I liked are those who speak Sumerian!!!

Don't even get me started on those Indo-Europeans who replaced that Pre-Indo-European Basque langauge...

SimpleName
09-19-2009, 02:56 PM
Makes me like Beck just that much more. Beck should never let Horowitz on his show again. Why waste the time on this fool?

As for the crackpot statement...well...F**K HIM! Apparently suspicion means you fully endorse something. And oh lord, we can't be suspicious of anything our government saviors are taking part in. And stop chasing kids down the block for riding their ATVs. I despise those kind of people.

Epic
09-19-2009, 05:18 PM
YouTube - Glenn Beck's Apology to Libertarians (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FuEWxTvRGY)

catdd
09-19-2009, 05:40 PM
RP voted to go into Afghanistan after 9/11, take care of business, and come home.

So what's up with the detour through Iraq Beck?
Why hasn't he denounced or at least questioned that yet? He won't be a true Libertarian in my eyes until he does.

KAYA
09-19-2009, 05:58 PM
RP voted to go into Afghanistan after 9/11, take care of business, and come home.

So what's up with the detour through Iraq Beck?
Why hasn't he denounced or at least questioned that yet? He won't be a true Libertarian in my eyes until he does.

That's what he is doing. When has says the more he learns and reads the more he realizes how right the libertarians have been. When he says he would like to revisit his disagreements with Ron Paul, etc. He is questioning his previous position on Iraq along with US imperialism in general.

catdd
09-19-2009, 06:01 PM
That's what he is doing. When has says the more he learns and reads the more he realizes how right the libertarians have been. When he says he would like to revisit his disagreements with Ron Paul, etc. He is questioning his previous position on Iraq along with US imperialism in general.

Well I guess it's difficult for him to just come right out and say it the way Dr. Paul does. Not everyone has that kind of courage.