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TER
09-13-2009, 07:36 PM
For the past 2 days I have been spending some time trying to understand the culture of the forum over there while trying to educate some of them about the message of non interventionalism and free markets and where Obama and his policies have failed and will fail. Of course, some of them over there are impossible to get through to, but I'm assuming (perhaps falsely) that some of them are receptive and are able to take the blinders off if given the facts.

Am I wasting my time? Perhaps. But I feel like I'm doing something to spread the liberty movement, as small as that may be.

Any thoughts?

amy31416
09-13-2009, 07:44 PM
There are some reasonable people there who are willing to criticize their leader, however, the site itself is a weird sort of fascist/random moderation. You'll often run into completely false/hyped headlines--but I say to keep trying. there are lots of Obamabots, but I'm sometimes surprised at the comments and come across some rather libertarian notions.

Considering that you're religious, you'll have to have a thick skin to deal with the abortion articles, or you just might want to entirely skip them. 2nd Amendment-related articles generally just have willfully ignorant and inflammatory comments. Generally they won't debate, only attack on that. I want to puke when I read some of the animal rights comments, but I do check them out for reactions on specific things--especially when Obama breaks promises.

TER
09-13-2009, 07:49 PM
There are some reasonable people there who are willing to criticize their leader, however, the site itself is a weird sort of fascist/random moderation. You'll often run into completely false/hyped headlines--but I say to keep trying. there are lots of Obamabots, but I'm sometimes surprised at the comments and come across some rather libertarian notions.

Considering that you're religious, you'll have to have a thick skin to deal with the abortion articles, or you just might want to entirely skip them. 2nd Amendment-related articles generally just have willfully ignorant and inflammatory comments. Generally they won't debate, only attack on that. I want to puke when I read some of the animal rights comments, but I do check them out for reactions on specific things--especially when Obama breaks promises.

I will definitely try to stay away from any abortion topics because I often times lose my cool and say things I shouldn't. I think the door in is regarding the wars and our foreign policy. Obama's policies so far in regards to the wars have made many in the anti-war left very disappointed. If they see the emperor with no clothes on, they may actually see all the other problems as well.

constituent
09-13-2009, 07:52 PM
There are some reasonable people there who are willing to criticize their leader, however, the site itself is a weird sort of fascist/random moderation. You'll often run into completely false/hyped headlines--but I say to keep trying. there are lots of Obamabots, but I'm sometimes surprised at the comments and come across some rather libertarian notions.

Considering that you're religious, you'll have to have a thick skin to deal with the abortion articles, or you just might want to entirely skip them. 2nd Amendment-related articles generally just have willfully ignorant and inflammatory comments. Generally they won't debate, only attack on that. I want to puke when I read some of the animal rights comments, but I do check them out for reactions on specific things--especially when Obama breaks promises.

good advice.

also try and understand/equate for your persona's life expectancy. then, what tack should you take? are you angling for gentle (yet steady) subversion, or a "balls to the wall" frontal assault?

the most important thing is to stay emotionally detached, and do not invest too heavily in one online persona or another until you see the time is right to strike.

constituent
09-13-2009, 07:56 PM
I will definitely try to stay away from any abortion topics because I often times lose my cool and say things I shouldn't.

Then use it as an excuse to brush up on your sparing skills, and try arguing it from the other perspective. It will gain you some instant cred., provide an opportunity to build camaraderie with those you wouldn't typically ally with, and probably the most important thing is that it will defy expectations.

tonesforjonesbones
09-13-2009, 08:01 PM
I find the socialists are nothing but insulters and attackers. I wish some of you would join me on paltalk...we could use more libertarian types..not enough representation. TONES

amy31416
09-13-2009, 08:06 PM
good advice.

also try and understand/equate for your persona's life expectancy. then, what tack should you take? are you angling for gentle (yet steady) subversion, or a "balls to the wall" frontal assault?

the most important thing is to stay emotionally detached, and do not invest too heavily in one online persona or another until you see the time is right to strike.

There are plenty of "balls to the wall" assault types there--from what I can tell, they get nowhere.

A few things I've felt compelled to comment on there:

2nd Amendment--I appeal to their love of the 1st Amendment, the philosophical intent of it, and I have a go-to article from Daily Kos that appeals to liberals to support the 2nd: http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/4/21/19133/5152

Anti-War--I use straight-up guilt and appeal to the hypocrisy of supporting Obama's warmongering to Christian support of Bush's warmongering. I mention how Cindy Sheehan has been "dumped" since Obama has taken office and that we make regular excursions into Pakistan. I also throw a comment in there that we've never had a Congressional vote on going into Pakistan.

Constitution--mention it a lot, and aside from the 2nd, you won't get much heat. It's an easy one. Just stay neutral and state (on economic/federal reserve issues, for instance), article 1, section 8. I've found that there are a decent number of people who want the Constution respected.

I think one niche that they are completely ignorant on is the 10th Amendment and sovereignty, both of the individual and of the state. It's fun to school 'em. :)

Edit: the only inroad I've found with abortion is that many lefties are essentially pro-life when it comes to animals--lots of good ways to trap them in logical inconsistencies there.

TER
09-13-2009, 08:20 PM
thanks for the advice everyone! I will try to practice them.

BenIsForRon
09-13-2009, 08:29 PM
I recommend that you stay a way from the site all together. If you lose your cool on abortion issues, you're going to have trouble talking with a secular, socialist group of commenters. You may end up doing more harm than good.

I think many liberals will be our closest allies in 2012, especially after 4 years of Obama. Most republicans will be ready to jump back on the Palin bandwagon. So keep a safe distance, and let them come to us.

TER
09-13-2009, 08:35 PM
I recommend that you stay a way from the site all together. If you lose your cool on abortion issues, you're going to have trouble talking with a secular, socialist group of commenters. You may end up doing more harm than good.

I think many liberals will be our closest allies in 2012, especially after 4 years of Obama. Most republicans will be ready to jump back on the Palin bandwagon. So keep a safe distance, and let them come to us.

I really never get into the abortion issues (probably from spending so much time in this forum). I believe it to be an issue for the states to decide and people tend to leave me alone with it then when I tell them that. The worst they can say is "so now some poor frightened young girl has to drive to another state to get an abortion" to which I respond "unfortunately, yes" and then they stop talking.

RoamZero
09-14-2009, 03:15 PM
Don't expect to sway anyone you argue with. Just present your side the best way you can and maybe those exposed to the argument might shift your way. It's the same tactic that all these talk-radio neocons use when they feature guests and callers that have opposing view points.

paulitics
09-14-2009, 07:16 PM
Present facts, and like the post above me, don't expect to sway the person you are talking to.

The ones you need to sway are the 1000s of people in their pajamas reading your post. Make it ,short and sweet and link to facts, so that those with critical thinking skills can draw their own conclusions.

I notice that some of the libertarians attack the poor, or less fortunate, as deadbeats, etc. Bad mistake, we should focus on the corruption at the top,and how they benefit and feed off the poor, like a parasite. For instance, social security is a regressive tax that hurts the poor the most, who are less likely to cash in on the benefits when they most need it.

I find alot of them are receptive to the federal reserve topic. Ask them, why does Obama want to give the banksters, and crooks on wallstreet more power?

TER
09-14-2009, 08:00 PM
Good points. Keep them coming!

Lois
09-16-2009, 05:18 AM
When I read through the Comments there, I find that there are more and more criticisms to Obama's policies these days, so I think that we should all try to show the moderates or independents the light.

MsDoodahs
09-16-2009, 09:24 AM
bump.

:)

Reason
09-16-2009, 10:09 AM
Congressman Paul appeared on MSNBCs Morning Joe along with Ariana Huffington. He discusses the failures of Keynesian economics, the true cause of the financial crisis, and the need to end the Fed.

YouTube - Ron Paul on "Morning Joe": Keynesian Economics, Financial Crisis, End The Fed (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cn6a5FEav0k)

TER
09-16-2009, 10:21 AM
When I read through the Comments there, I find that there are more and more criticisms to Obama's policies these days, so I think that we should all try to show the moderates or independents the light.

We each need to spend some time on other forums educating others. We need to take the message right to them. We need to have 'education bombs' where we all inundate progressive sites to point out the failed and failing policies of the administration. Thats not to say abandon RPF! Heavens no! But, we must leave the cozy confines of this forum of liberty minded people at times to spread the message to those who need to listen to the message we are fighting for. I think this winter our liberty message will expand many-fold if we all participate in such 'education bombs'.