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clb09
09-13-2009, 04:03 PM
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/protest-crowd-size-estimate-falsely-attributed-abc-news/story?id=8558055


At no time did ABC News, or its affiliates, report a number anywhere near as large. ABCNews.com reported an approximate figure of 60,000 to 70,000 protesters, attributed to the Washington, D.C., fire department. In its reports, ABC News Radio described the crowd as "tens of thousands."

Brendan Steinhauser, spokesman for FreedomWorks, said he did not know why Kibbe cited ABC News as a source.

As a result of Kibbe's erroneous attribution, several bloggers and commenters repeated the misinformation.

Damn! :(

ItsTime
09-13-2009, 04:05 PM
The fire department is an unofficial number ie, they asked an Obama supporter firefighter how many they thought was there and used that number.

Also, would you put it past ABC to say one thing then print and run another to make the rally look bad?

Liberty Star
09-13-2009, 04:11 PM
Fox reported the number at "tens of thousands protesters" this afternoon which surprised me. But in some other google news reports , numbers are much higher than this numer and even into millions.

paulitics
09-13-2009, 05:30 PM
Come one. This is a lie. The media lies. It was many times this. Look at the pictures.

Vessol
09-13-2009, 05:31 PM
Who cares?

It was a bunch of neocon sheep out there protesting anyways.

GOD BLESS RUSH LIMBAUGH

PICTURE OF PALIN

THANK YOU GLENN BECK

KAYA
09-13-2009, 05:37 PM
What's the deal with the whinny, negative, unrealistic, political isolationist here on this board? It's f*ckin pathetic...

Liberty Star
09-13-2009, 05:40 PM
Who cares?

It was a bunch of neocon sheep out there protesting anyways.

GOD BLESS RUSH LIMBAUGH

PICTURE OF PALIN

THANK YOU GLENN BECK


I can't speak for others but I for one intended to take the total figure and then extrapolate using a complex formula to figure out how many of the attendees were mere angry republicans ( Dick Armey's Freedomworks, Prosperity for America, Glenn Beck/Fox invited folks etc. ) and how many were motivated ideological libertarians ( C4L, RP and other Libertarians).
But hard to do that breakdown if still don't even have a good estimate. Which is strange because we put man on the moon and a full day after still don't have a report with confirmed estimate and variance in numbers is too incredible from under 100K to 1-2 millions.

Kbeaubs
09-13-2009, 05:42 PM
What's the deal with the whinny, negative, unrealistic, political isolationist here on this board? Its f'n pathetic...

No kidding. Nothing like sheep calling other people sheep. If Ron Paul and his minions stand for political isolationism, he's not for me.

I guess I must be a neocon.

legion
09-13-2009, 05:42 PM
when i went for the fireworks this year they said 500,000 people were there. we barely filled up the area between the lincoln memorial and the washington monument.

it looks like these people were all over the mall between the capital to the lincoln monument. it may very well have been over a million people. the mall is HUGE.

when it comes down to it you will probably never have an exact count. its just how things like this work.

Vessol
09-13-2009, 05:44 PM
What's the deal with the whinny, negative, unrealistic, political isolationist here on this board? It's f*ckin pathetic...

Lol, ok.

I just don't like my idealogy being hijacked for the purpose of the anti-constitutional neocon Fox Republicans.

Kind of like Dude Where's My Car?

ItsTime
09-13-2009, 05:54 PM
No kidding. Nothing like sheep calling other people sheep. If Ron Paul and his minions stand for political isolationism, he's not for me.

I guess I must be a neocon.

Dont let a few bad apples wreck your idea of what the Ron Paul movement is about. Many many many of us are Republicans.

Vessol
09-13-2009, 06:01 PM
Dont let a few bad apples wreck your idea of what the Ron Paul movement is about. Many many many of us are Republicans.

We all saw how much good the Republicans have done the past..what? 30 years?

Fuck Democrats and Fuck Republicans.

catdd
09-13-2009, 06:03 PM
Lol, ok.

I just don't like my idealogy being hijacked for the purpose of the anti-constitutional neocon Fox Republicans.

Kind of like Dude Where's My Car?

2 of us.
Where were they when Bush was in office? Cursing and making fun of us is where.

Njon
09-13-2009, 06:05 PM
WorldNetDaily reports it as much higher: http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=109628

ItsTime
09-13-2009, 06:08 PM
We all saw how much good the Republicans have done the past..what? 30 years?

Fuck Democrats and Fuck Republicans.

Yup throw Rand Paul and Peter under the bus :rolleyes:

Vessol
09-13-2009, 06:09 PM
Yup throw Rand Paul and Peter under the bus :rolleyes:

While I understand them running under the GOP party for issues of ease, I still disagree with it.

Just because I dislike Republicans in general, doesn't mean I dislike a few individuals within the party(a very small few).

ItsTime
09-13-2009, 06:12 PM
While I understand them running under the GOP party for issues of ease, I still disagree with it.

Just because I dislike Republicans in general, doesn't mean I dislike a few individuals within the party(a very small few).

Right, time to judge on principle regardless of r or d. Fact is we wont get a libertarian in the white house. It would just insure an obama second term. So we MUST get the best we can to run as a R to win the white house in 2012. Those are just cold hard realities.

Liberty Star
09-13-2009, 06:16 PM
Many many many of us are Republicans.


Not the Republicans that ran the country for last 8 years, gave us gift of Obama election and got us where we are today.

IMO, R and D labels matter little and giving such identity labels too much importance can even be counterproductive if goal is restoration of liberty values and not putting same Republicans back in office.

FrankRep
09-13-2009, 06:17 PM
Great Event. But, crowd estimate of Million or More for 9-12 DC Tea Party is fantasy (http://www.jbs.org/forum/view-postlist/forum-1-water-cooler/topic-224-great-event-but-crowd-estimate-of-million-or-more-for-9-12-dc-tea-party-is-fantasy)


Jim Capo | John Birch Society (http://www.jbs.org/)
JBS Community Coordinator Member of JBS Field Staff since 2003 JBS National Spokesman on Trade Policy


"A million or more rock Washington (http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=109628)" - World Net Daily estimate is propaganda not journalism.

I was there. It was a great event. We should all be excited. But, there is absolutely NO WAY there were over million people at the Tea Party in DC. Not even close.

I put the crowd at 120,000 give or take 30,000. (The ABC news number of 70,000 is definitely low-balled but is at least in the right order of magnitude. The WND million number is just absurd. Propaganda not journalism.

See this graphic analysis:
http://jbs.org/jbs-community/photos/photo?albumid=221#photoid=1240

I drove 50 miles up I-95 from Fredericksberg from 8:30 to 9:30am. I was on the Blue Line Metro to Federal Triangle station from 10:45 to 11:15am. I marched down PA avenue from 11:30 to noon. I was there until the microphone at the front steps of the Capitol was turned off at 4:57pm.

The traffic on the highway coming and going, the excitement, the density of the crowd filing into the the area in front of the Capitol were all reminiscent of attending a University of Michigan football game - stadium capacity 106,201.

The event was a great encouragement and well worth attending as a Birch member. Our bands of merry Birchers and friends were there representing one of the few organizations with professionally done literature and DVD's to hand out to many interested parties in the crowd.

Still the presence of war mongering GOP faithful was large. It is not surprising that the pro-war cheerleaders at World Net Daily would headline their report on the rally with a bogus attendance number ten times larger than reality.

The Neocons are trying to hijack the Tea Party movement. They want play it as grassroots support for a patriotic continuation and escalation of wars being conducted around the world by an otherwise bankrupt empire.

I will be writing up a full report with pictures by end of day tomorrow.


SOURCE:
http://www.jbs.org/forum/view-postlist/forum-1-water-cooler/topic-224-great-event-but-crowd-estimate-of-million-or-more-for-9-12-dc-tea-party-is-fantasy

KAYA
09-13-2009, 06:22 PM
As a participant within these tea parties I can assure you that there is a significant, in fact majority faction that is just as pissed off with Republicans. I have taken to the mic many times and every time I make sure to express my dissatisfaction with Republican leadership and/or issues pertaining to the Fed Res and every time I get robust applause.

ClayTrainor
09-13-2009, 06:22 PM
Up to two million march to US Capitol to protest against Obama's spending in 'tea-party' demonstration

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1213056/Up-million-march-US-Capitol-protest-Obamas-spending-tea-party-demonstration.html#comments

Vessol
09-13-2009, 06:25 PM
Right, time to judge on principle regardless of r or d. Fact is we wont get a libertarian in the white house. It would just insure an obama second term. So we MUST get the best we can to run as a R to win the white house in 2012. Those are just cold hard realities.

Why not run some under a Republican ticket and others under a Democrat ticket.

If you use that logic.

Both parties are the same.

revolutionary8
09-13-2009, 06:38 PM
Don't believe your eyes.
Freedom is slavery.
War is Peace.
Ignorance is strength.

YouTube - 1.5 to 2 million march on Washington D.C Tea Party protest rally September 12 2009 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoPud1TeubM)

YouTube - 09.12.09 March on Washington - March to Capitol Hill (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtdzSTfe4W8)
YouTube - 9-12 March on DC - Press Stand CRASH - raw footage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eppSWxpbO8g)

Does it really matter?
It does if you Kill Your TV.
It's all a bunch of propaganda.

ItsTime
09-13-2009, 06:53 PM
Why not run some under a Republican ticket and others under a Democrat ticket.

If you use that logic.

Both parties are the same.

Sure why not. But I think in this upcoming election cycle the dems are going to face the same problem the Rs did last cycle.

revolutionary8
09-13-2009, 07:02 PM
Sure why not. But I think in this upcoming election cycle the dems are going to face the same problem the Rs did last cycle.

exactly.
teeter totter

Until we can get people to see the false left/right paradigm, then there will never be a balance. this is what those at the top wish to acomplish.
I'm not sure how much longer they can convince the American People that there is a REAL DIFFERENCE between the neo con right and the neo liberal left. There is NO differnce as the majority of those commenting here have realized.
It'll take a while for the rest to "catch up", but being from the South, where we are accused on a daily basis of "being behind", it's gonna reach a boiling point...
sooner or later.
Toss the dice.

constituent
09-13-2009, 07:02 PM
The Neocons are trying to hijack the Tea Party movement. They want play it as grassroots support for a patriotic continuation and escalation of wars being conducted around the world by an otherwise bankrupt empire.


lol, the tea party "movement" was the hijack. it's kind of silly to say that freedomworks is hijacking what they started.

revolutionary8
09-13-2009, 07:04 PM
lol, the tea party "movement" was the hijack. it's kind of silly to say that freedomworks is hijacking what they started.

Surely you aren't saying Dick started the "tea party" movement.

Dick is a ...
well,
a dick.
And he is NOT from Texas!

revolutionary8
09-13-2009, 07:08 PM
Rep. Dick Armey Calls for Ethnic Cleansing of Palestinians

CounterPunch Wire


Last night on MSNBC's highly-rated program Hardball, House Republican Majority Leader Dick Armey ( R-TX) called for the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from the occupied territories and endorsed Israel's conquests of those lands.

Armey said that he "is content to have a Palestinian state" but is "not content to give up any part of Israel for the purpose of a Palestinian state." He defined the Palestinian territories occupied by Israel-East Jerusalem, the West Bank and Gaza Strip-as Israel. He also said he has "thought this through for a lot of years" and believes that Palestinians living in the West Bank should be removed.

Armey stated that "there are many Arab nations that have many hundreds of thousands of acres of land, soil, and property and opportunity to create a Palestinian state."

An incredulous Chris Mathews, host of Hardball, repeatedly gave Armey the opportunity to clarify that he was not calling for the ethnic cleansing of all Palestinians from Palestine, but the House Republican chief refused to do so:

MATTHEWS: Well, just to repeat, you believe that the Palestinians who are now living on the West Bank should get out of there?

Rep. ARMEY: Yes.

The complete transcript of his remarks can be read in the below.

TRANSCRIPT Hardball with Chris Matthews

(9:00 PM ET) - CNBC May 1, 2002 Wednesday

CHRIS MATTHEWS, host: Congressman Dick Armey of Texas leads the Republicans in the US House of Representatives.

Congressman Armey, Mr. Majority Leader, why is the Congress about to pass a resolution supporting Israel at a time that the president is trying to walk a line between Israel and its Arab neighbors?

Representative RICHARD ARMEY (Republican, Majority Leader): Well, we've had--we feel very strongly in the House of Representatives that we have a moral obligation to protect the safety, security and freedom of Israel. And the Congress wants to speak on that, both bodies want to do so. We've discussed it with the White House, and everybody is comfortable. We will go--go ahead with that tomorrow. It is very important to the world that Israel be--the freedom of Israel be protected and honored.

MATTHEWS: What good is this going to do anybody?

Rep. ARMEY: Well, I think, again, we--we want to make the point...

MATTHEWS: To whom?

Rep. ARMEY: The president of the United States is trying to make a transition in foreign policy from what it has been to what it must be in the future. We can no longer appease aggressors in the Middle East. There obviously will never be a peace. The goal is no Jews between them and the sea, and we must make it very clear that if you want to talk about peace and talk the talk, you must walk the walk, and that must be respect for Israel's right to live freely, safely and securely.

MATTHEWS: OK. Let's talk about the realities over there. There's a fight between the Arabs and the--and the Israelis over who owns the Pal--all of Palestine. Do you support the idea that there be a Palestine state alongside Israel?

Rep. ARMEY: I am perfectly content to have a Palestinian state alongside Israel if it is a state that honors others borders.

MATTHEWS: You are in total, 180 disagreement with Tom Delay who said this week that the entire West Bank belongs to Israel and it belongs to that country that's not an Arab country.

Rep. ARMEY: I...

MATTHEWS: It should not have a statehood.

Rep. ARMEY: No, I'm perfectly content to have a Palestinian state. I am not content to give up any part of Israel for that purpose of that Palestinian state.

MATTHEWS: Wait a minute. Tom Delay's, whose resolution you're going to put on the floor tomorrow and schedule, has said that the entire West Bank, he calls it Judean Samaria, belongs to Israel. How can you say that this resolution doesn't support the Delay position which is Israel has a right to grab the entire West Bank?

Rep. ARMEY: No, I--I'm content to have Israel grab the entire West Bank. I'm also content to have the Palestinians have a homeland and even for that to be somewhere near Israel, but I'm not content to see Israel give up land for the purpose of peace to the Palestinians who will not accept it and would not honor it. It is time to...

MATTHEWS: Well, where do you put the Palestinian state, in Norway? Once the Israelis take back the West Bank permanently and annex it, there's no place else for the Palestinians to have a state.

Rep. ARMEY: No, no, that's not--that's not at all true. There are many Arab nations that have many hundreds of thousands of acres of land and--and soil and property and opportunity to create a Palestinian state.

MATTHEWS: So you would transport--you would transport the Palestinians from Palestine to somewhere else and call it their state?

Rep. ARMEY: I would be perfectly content to have a homeland, just as--most of...

MATTHEWS: But not in Palestine?

Rep. ARMEY: Most of the people who now populate Israel were transported from all over the world to that land and they made it their home. The Palestinians can do the same, and we're per--perfectly content to work with the Palestinians in doing that. We are not willing to sacrifice Israel for the notion of a Palestinian homeland.

MATTHEWS: Right, no. No, that's not the question and that's not your answer. The question here is: What is the future of the Palestinians who are fighting Israel right now? You say there future is somewhere besides Palestine. That runs in the way of US policy going back to 1948. It runs--it runs completely against the president's policy and every policy I've heard a president take, which is that Israel has to give up its settlements on the West Bank and give it back to the Arabs in exchange for peace. You say the deal should be the Palestinians leave?

Rep. ARMEY: That's right. Palestinians say the deal should be the Israel--that--that the Israelis leave.

MATTHEWS: Have you talked about this with the president?

Rep. ARMEY: I happened to believe that the Palestinians should leave.

MATTHEWS: Have you ever told George Bush, the president from your home state of Texas, that you think the Palestinians should get up and go and leave Palestine and that's the solution?

Rep. ARMEY: I'm probably telling him that right now. This is...

MATTHEWS: Have you thought this through?

Rep. ARMEY: I have thought this through. I've thought it through for a lot of years. I believe that Israel is the state for the Jewish people. It needs to be honored. It needs to be protected.

MATTHEWS: Yeah. That's not what you're saying. You're saying Israel should expand its borders to the Jordan River...

Rep. ARMEY: No.

MATTHEWS: ...and kick out all the Palestinians? That's what you just said.

Rep. ARMEY: I am--I am content to have Israel occupy that land that it now occupies and to have those people who have been aggressors against Israel retired to some other arena, and I would be happy to have them make a home. I would be happy to have all of these Arab nations that have been so hell bent to drive Israel out of the Middle East to get together, find some land and make a home for the Palestinians. I think it can be done.

MATTHEWS: So the president, who has been dutifully, for the last couple of weeks, trying to get the Israeli army to withdraw from the West Bank, should stop that, let the Israeli defense force take over the West Bank and hold it and make it part of Israel? You completely disagree with the president's policy then?

Rep. ARMEY: I am--I am perfectly content to have Israel hold and occupy the land that it has at this moment.

MATTHEWS: Well, how about though-how about the Jenin in Samaria? Tom Delay, whose measure you're putting on the floor tomorrow, says that all the West Bank, Jenin, Judea, Masada, everything belongs to Israel. It's not occupied territory. It's Israeli. Is that your position?

Rep. ARMEY: Well, first of all, Chris, I think we have to be real careful on how you are interpreting jo--Tom's provision. I think Tom's provision is principally and primarily that the Jewish people have a right to defend themselves.

MATTHEWS: Well, just to repeat, you believe that the Palestinians who are now living on the West Bank should get out of there?

Rep. ARMEY: Yes.

MATTHEWS: OK. Thank you very much. More with Congressman Dick Armey coming back. You're watching HARDBALL. (Announcements)

MATTHEWS: We're back with Congressman Dick Army who is head of the Republican Party. He's majority leader of the US House of Representatives.

Mr. Armey, the president's people, somebody in the highest levels of this administration, is leaking the fact that the United States is planning to attack Iraq sometime in next year. Do you think that would require a congressional resolution?

Rep. ARMEY: I don't know that that leak is out there. It's--I'm missing it if it's out there. I have to tell you, Chris, in the last year or so, I've come to where I hardly trust anything I read in the papers anymore until the president of the United States tells me himself that he is planning such an operation.

MATTHEWS: Yeah. So he never mentioned that in the meeting--in the breakfast meeting today he never mentioned Iraq?

Rep. ARMEY: No, he certainly did not. He certainly--he certainly did not and he certainly did not talk about any kind of military operation relative to Iraq.

MATTHEWS: Just so the people out there know where the House of Representatives stands, does the--does the House of Representatives have to vote to support a US military attack on Iraq if the president chooses to make one?

Rep. ARMEY: I would think that as we've seen this president and his father act in the past, before he took any kind of military action that deployed our troops on a field of conflict, he would probably come to us and ask for our support and our consideration in the matter.

MATTHEWS: Well, under the Constitution, would that be necessary?

Rep. ARMEY: I think the con--you'll have to go to a constitutional scholar on that. There's so much confusion on that point right now. I cannot answer it within a hypothetical context.

MATTHEWS: OK. Let me ask you about this bad news we got this week from Director Mueller, who is head of the FBI, that they haven't found a shred of paper that gives us any idea of how the September 11th horror was--was concocted, planned, carried out. No evidence at all.

Rep. ARMEY: Well, I--you've got a bunch of people hiding in caves, working out plans and scheming and plotting. Why are we upset that we don't have any hard paper trail on that? I--I would never have expected to have found one.

MATTHEWS: How do we--how do we feel that we've ended the war against al-Qaeda and caught the people who did what they did September 11th? How do we know we've won that war?

Rep. ARMEY: Well, I don't know for sure when you know you've won that war. We don't know how many people are scattered all over the world. This is a--a case even where if you caught and killed bin Laden you got a snake that can continue to crawl and continue to be dangerous even if the head has been cut off it. So you have to stay vigilant for a very, very long time.

MATTHEWS: Whose head would you rather get, Mr. Leader, Mr. Armey? Would you rather get the head of Osama bin Laden or the head of Saddam Hussein if you had it on the platter? If you were a salome right now and--and St. John was offering you a head, which head would you demand?

Rep. ARMEY: Well, I think right now the world would say 'We--we've got to stop bin Laden who is--who has said, "I'll take this terror to every corner of the world."'

MATTHEWS: Right.

Rep. ARMEY: Saddam Hussein is--at least is confining himself, as it is right now, to his own territory, although we're sure he's supporting terrorists across the world.

MATTHEWS: I like--I like you now you've said what I wanted you to say finally which is we've got to get bin Laden. Thank you very much, US Congressman Dick Armey of Texas.

Rep. ARMEY: OK.

FrankRep
09-13-2009, 07:23 PM
lol, the tea party "movement" was the hijack. it's kind of silly to say that freedomworks is hijacking what they started.
The Ron Paul movement started the Tea Parties, by the way.

JK/SEA
09-13-2009, 07:24 PM
The 1969 Woodstock festival had 4-500 thousand attend on Yasgurs 600 acre farm. Looks like this rally easily doubled that from the pics i've looked at.

JK/SEA
09-13-2009, 07:26 PM
The Ron Paul movement started the Tea Parties, by the way.

yep...12-16-07

Dr.3D
09-13-2009, 07:28 PM
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/protest-crowd-size-estimate-falsely-attributed-abc-news/story?id=8558055



Damn! :(

In my opinion, if you believe what you see on ABC, then you might as well believe what you see on MSNBC too.

specsaregood
09-13-2009, 07:29 PM
It doesn't really concern me; but do we need to revist the occasions of ABCnews censorship and coverups during the Ron Paul campaign early on in the primaries or can we just agree that they are not a credible news source.

For those that have forgotten:
http://paullevinson.blogspot.com/2007/08/abcs-abuse-of-american-electorate-to-be.html

constituent
09-13-2009, 07:35 PM
The Ron Paul movement started the Tea Parties, by the way.

precisely what i meant when i said "the tea party 'movement' was the hijack."

;) :p

tonesforjonesbones
09-13-2009, 08:12 PM
It is to be expected that the socialist news media would under estimate the numbers. I guarantee you, those jerks in washington saw it, and I'm quite sure it made them a little nervous..democraps and republicans. They noticed. TONES

RevolutionSD
09-14-2009, 12:19 AM
How many true freedom lovers (anarchists) do you think were out there?

davesxj
09-14-2009, 12:53 AM
How many true freedom lovers (anarchists) do you think were out there?

Well I know of one...

the rest sounded a lot like fox news.

I saw a small group for RP, two guys against the drug war, one sign calling out the defense budget and one sign calling out GE. The rest was controlled opposition.

FrankRep
09-14-2009, 12:54 AM
Media Shocked by D.C. Tea Party Turnout
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=209925

Reason
09-14-2009, 01:32 AM
Who cares?

It was a bunch of neocon sheep out there protesting anyways.

GOD BLESS RUSH LIMBAUGH

PICTURE OF PALIN

THANK YOU GLENN BECK

Agreed.

Primbs
09-14-2009, 08:13 AM
What really counts in the end is how many of these guys run for office and help other small government types run for office. It was nice to see the marches getting bigger. That is a great trend.

Original_Intent
09-14-2009, 08:20 AM
Yeah ABC News would never spin an estimate their way, especially if it was something that could never be verified. All I know is our local college football stadium holds 65,000, and the pictures I ahve seen it looks like no less than 250,000 people to me. And there are other sources estimating 2 million (also way off in my opinion) it just boggles my mind that there are estimates of 60K and estimates of 2 million and someone is getting called for bullshit.