Attendance Estimates for DC 9/12 [Archive] - Ron Paul Forums / Liberty Forest

ronpaulhawaii

09-13-2009, 01:42 PM

I'd like to see what the membership here thinks of the numbers being bandied about for 9/12 DC attendance. From my scanning of pics, comparing the Inauguration and yesterdays event. I think the 1-2 million estimates are absurd and just allow the left to dismiss all aspects of such an event with mockery and derision. I simply cannot believe all the people maintaining that high an estimate. I imagine it might have felt like over a mil to those on the ground, but just do not see evidence. On 7/12/08 we filled that street with 10k, not with the density, but still...

ItsTime

09-13-2009, 02:38 PM

If MSM reports 10k, I say there was 100k.

Vessol

09-13-2009, 02:39 PM

250-500 thousand.

Only about 10% of those were true Libertarians.

The rest were Fox Neocon Conservatives.

I'd love to know where all those people were in the past 8 years.

muzzled dogg

09-13-2009, 02:58 PM

holy shit 500,000?

Liberty Star

09-13-2009, 03:50 PM

I was curious about attendance figure too. This afternoon Fox News reported it as:

"tens of thousands of protesters",

which sounded a bit strange considering that some others had put the number around 1-2 millions and Fox is not supposed to deflate the number. In google news search for total number, most MSM reports seem to be citing similar vague figures, so it's kinda hard to estimate a concerete figure. I did see one apparently liberal leaning report among google news admitting that number was "1-1.5 million" but may have been clever hit piece as its writer went on to add that he "saw only 4 black people", so probably not worth posting that link.

Objectivist

09-13-2009, 03:53 PM

We had a couple hundred down at the Beach in Monterey.

Sarge

09-13-2009, 03:54 PM

Give it some time. Pictures starting to pour in. Take a look at these. A little slow to load but, one person could not shuffle all these people to different locations to take pictures. Look at the how deep the crowd is in some of the pictures.

Credit to a post on TF,

http://icanhastarp.com/9_12_pics/

Number19

09-13-2009, 04:40 PM

It should be relatively easy to get a low end figure on the attendance.

CNN panned the capitol mall, showing three large open areas jammed packed. So, what is the number to fill this huge area? The question then becomes, how much spill over from this huge area was there?

Also, that 10AM overhead traffic cam shot showing the street absolutely jammed packed, from the far distant capitol building back to 14th & E St NW.

The number, I would say, is easily over 100,000. This has to go down as a major rally for the city and a political success for our movement.

Stary Hickory

09-13-2009, 05:12 PM

http://moderateinthemiddle.wordpress.com/2009/09/12/aerial-views-added-d-c-police-close-roads-to-buses-people-on-footestimate-1-2-millionl-abc-cant-count912-party-on-patriots/

check the link here, over 1 million.

Vessol

09-13-2009, 05:26 PM

legion

09-13-2009, 05:27 PM

when i went for the fireworks this year they said 500,000 people were there. we barely filled up the area between the lincoln memorial and the washington monument. some people sat on the steps of the capital.

it looks like these people were all over the mall between the capital to the lincoln monument. it may very well have been over a million people. the mall is HUGE.

Number19

09-13-2009, 06:19 PM

revolutionary8

09-13-2009, 06:43 PM

YouTube - 9-12 March on DC - Press Stand CRASH - raw footage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eppSWxpbO8g)
pause at :02

That is HUGE.
I am not saying this b/c I think its a bunch of Socially liberal, Fiscally Conservative Libertarian minded people speaking their minds, I say that because I can watch a video clip, then compare it to marches on Washington that have been depicted/recorded in photographs/video throughtout history.

This might even be seen as a victory for "Glenn Beck". I disagree. A movement can only be hi-jacked if "The Powers That Be" know who is driving.
Personally, I think they are clueless as to who is 'driving'. They spent OVER A BILLION on their "man", but look at the reality of the situation. ya think these people would vote in, "Amnesty/Campaign Finance McCain"?
That question has been answered...

revolutionary8

09-13-2009, 06:46 PM

duplicate.

PBrady

09-13-2009, 06:59 PM

YouTube - 9-12 March on DC - Press Stand CRASH - raw footage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eppSWxpbO8g)
pause at :02

That is HUGE.
I am not saying this b/c I think its a bunch of Socially liberal, Fiscally Conservative Libertarian minded people speaking their minds, I say that because I can watch a video clip, then compare it to marches on Washington that have been depicted/recorded in photographs/video throughtout history.

To me, that is the least convincing view you could show me, as it is easily the most deceiving. Take a look a pic from Obama's inauguration (taken much higher up than the video):

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cc/Crowd_at_National_Mall_for_Obama_inauguration_1-20-09_hires_090120-F-6184M-007a.jpg

Compare that to the aerial shot:

http://venturebeat.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/inaugural-big-image1.jpg

-----

My main problem with the 1 million+ estimates is that it supposes people were standing 1 person per 2.5 square feet. In any picture or video that is taken in the middle of a crowd, you can see that's clearly not true. 1/2.5 is REALLY packed.

revolutionary8

09-13-2009, 07:20 PM

To me, that is the least convincing view you could show me, as it is easily the most deceiving. Take a look a pic from Obama's inauguration (taken much higher up than the video):

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cc/Crowd_at_National_Mall_for_Obama_inauguration_1-20-09_hires_090120-F-6184M-007a.jpg

Compare that to the aerial shot:

http://venturebeat.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/inaugural-big-image1.jpg

-----

My main problem with the 1 million+ estimates is that it supposes people were standing 1 person per 2.5 square feet. In any picture or video that is taken in the middle of a crowd, you can see that's clearly not true. 1/2.5 is REALLY packed.

Speaking of an "aerial shot", can you post a picture of the 09/12/09 aerial view? You seem quite prepared w/ the aerial shot of "Obamabrigades", but I see no aerial view of the 09/12/09 march.

That way, we can really compare...
The first shot you posted (street view), I see no real difference...

oh, and of course i'll expect the time and date---> it won't count if you post an aerial pick at 6 am. wink wink...

PBrady

09-13-2009, 07:36 PM

Speaking of an "aerial shot", can you post a picture of the 09/12/09 aerial view? You seem quite prepared w/ the aerial shot of "Obamabrigades", but I see no aerial view of the 09/12/09 march.

That way, we can really compare...
The first shot you posted (street view), I see no real difference...

oh, and of course i'll expect the time and date---> it won't count if you post an aerial pick at 6 am. wink wink...

I don't need to post one (which obviously doesn't exist) to prove my point. My point was that the angle from the video you showed can very easily be deceiving.

revolutionary8

09-13-2009, 07:39 PM

I don't need to post one (which obviously doesn't exist) to prove my point. My point was that the angle from the video you showed can very easily be deceiving.

are you joking? Ya REALLY THINK an aerial view of this "march" doesn't exist? :confused::confused:
I'll say two things:
"LOL"
and,
"wtf are ya smokin'? "

This runs along the same lines of---> "There are no videos of a plane hitting the Pentagon".

lol

You can't be that stupid. Not if you are here. If you are here, you are either playing dumb, and/or you are about 12 yo.
Take some gd'd responsibility, and don't try to ass wipe us with ignorance. that shit STINKS.
GIVE US SOME FUCKING CREDIT.

PBrady

09-13-2009, 07:49 PM

are you joking? Ya REALLY THINK an aerial view of this "march" doesn't exist? :confused::confused:
I'll say two things:
"LOL"
and,
"wtf are ya smokin'? "

This runs along the same lines of---> "There are no videos of a plane hitting the Pentagon".

lol

You can't be that stupid. Not if you are here. If you are here, you are either playing dumb, and/or you are about 12 yo. Take some gd'd responsibility, and don't try to ass wipe us with ignorance. that shit STINKS. GIVE US SOME FUCKING CREDIT.

Well, I have no clue what your truther diatribe has to do with anything...but that's beside the point.

Yes, I'm sure some satellite somewhere off in orbit has an aerial photo. Sorry for the need to clarify - no publicly available source, that I personally know of, has detailed photographs from space that took pictures of yesterday's march on Washington. However, if there was one, I'm sure you would see massive gaps in the audience, quite similar to that of the Obama inauguration.

Happy?

revolutionary8

09-13-2009, 07:53 PM

Well, I have no clue what your truther diatribe has to do with anything...but that's beside the point.

Yes, I'm sure some satellite somewhere off in orbit has an aerial photo. Sorry for the need to clarify - no publicly available source, that I personally know of, has detailed photographs from space that took pictures of yesterday's march on Washington. However, if there was one, I'm sure you would see massive gaps in the audience, quite similar to that of the Obama inauguration.

Happy?

STOP trying to make this harder than it is...
It is pretty much what I am used to... "oH" the satellite of the OBAMA drool fest is readily accessible, yet the 9/12 project is a "project"for those of us who wear tin foil hats.
Pretty soon, it will backfire.
:D
tick
tock

Oh, and love "the truther" shit.
That's cute.
tell me PB,
what brought down building #7?

I want your PUNK ASS to answer that one question.
WHAT BROUGHT DOWN BUILDING 7?
HINT---> IT WASN'T A FUCKING PLANE OR JET FUEL

PBrady

09-13-2009, 07:55 PM

STOP trying to make this harder than it is...
It is pretty much what I am used to... "oH" the satellite of the OBAMA drool fest is readily accessible, yet the 9/12 project is a "project"for those of us who wear tin foil hats.
Pretty soon, it will backfire.
:D
tick
tock

I honestly have NO clue WHAT the hell you are talking about.

ronpaulhawaii

09-13-2009, 08:00 PM

WTH, with the rudeness, sheesh. Please keep it civil and take the off topic crap somewhere else. Thanks :)

revolutionary8

09-13-2009, 11:47 PM

Sorry RPH.
:(
pardon PB, perhaps there is a better place for our argument. Forgive me for the obtrusiveness- i am less than "politically correct"

revolutionary8

09-13-2009, 11:48 PM

I honestly have NO clue WHAT the hell you are talking about.

This is because you only listen to yourself.

kahless

09-14-2009, 12:14 AM

250-500 thousand.

Only about 10% of those were true Libertarians.

The rest were Fox Neocon Conservatives.

They became Neocons because of Fox. The good thing is if Fox is moving Libertarian they will be Libertarians.

lx43

09-14-2009, 12:17 AM

Definately over 100 K.

Primbs

09-14-2009, 08:17 AM

Looks like tens of thousands to 100k.

Stary Hickory

09-14-2009, 08:25 AM

Looks like tens of thousands to 100k.

I don't know if you are being blatantly dishonest or just don't know? The figure is at 1mil or above. You do know that every presidential inauguration uses this venue? You do realize that other protests have been here and we have a model for comparison right?

Take an honest look at the photos, and you cannot say this does not approach 1 million if not exceed it very healthily.

link below

http://moderateinthemiddle.wordpress...y-on-patriots/

if you can be honest with yourself take a look

Primbs

09-14-2009, 08:29 AM

There could have been more. I am very familiar with D.C. I was there at 1:00 PM.

What could happen is that many people march in the morning and then depart for lunch or head back to their hotel rooms because they are tired.

People were all over union station, up and down pennsylvania avenue.

It was certainly bigger than the revolution march.

ronpaulhawaii

09-14-2009, 09:28 AM

Looks like tens of thousands to 100k.

Hi George :) I was hoping you'd check in. Thanks

I don't know if you are being blatantly dishonest or just don't know? The figure is at 1mil or above. You do know that every presidential inauguration uses this venue? You do realize that other protests have been here and we have a model for comparison right?

Take an honest look at the photos, and you cannot say this does not approach 1 million if not exceed it very healthily.

link below

http://moderateinthemiddle.wordpress...y-on-patriots/ (http://moderateinthemiddle.wordpress...y-on-patriots/)

if you can be honest with yourself take a look

404 error on your link, Stary.

FYI - Both Primbs and I (and a few other members here) were organizers of the July 12th, 2008 March. Primbs is a DC political animal and has seen his share of DC events... I still have seen no evidence of a million, much less millions... The pic from the capitol back to the Washington monument is showing lots of green. I understand that people want to use the term millions, for various reasons, I understand that some have taken their position and will have to eat crow, but I still think that wild exaggeration hurts more than helps

There could have been more. I am very familiar with D.C. I was there at 1:00 PM.

What could happen is that many people march in the morning and then depart for lunch or head back to their hotel rooms because they are tired.

People were all over union station, up and down pennsylvania avenue.

It was certainly bigger than the revolution march.

That it was... but hell, we are the early adopters. The honest r3VOLution... Pure Grassroots :D

paulitics

09-14-2009, 09:39 AM

Look, I am probably one of the biggest skeptics of Glenn Beck and others on here, but, I am not going to let this bias cloud my judgement of what I can see with my own eyes.

How the hell anyone can say this protest was anything less than 100's of thousands of people? Come on, take your bias out of it people.

This is what is wrong with this country, when you have 2 sides look at the same exact images, and one side says 3 miliion, and the other says 30,000. It's an illness, where people can no longer look at objectively at something as simple as a large crowd.

Primbs

09-14-2009, 10:10 AM

Walking in the crowd was very impressive. The crowds did go all the way to the smithsonian institution and then some. People were all over Washington D.C.

The roar of people cheering was very loud and extremely energetic.

When these people go back to continue organizing in their home districts, many incumbents on Capitol Hill will rightly worry about the Tea party protesters.

Many liberal incumbents will now have organized, energized opposition sitting in campaign war rooms all across the country, putting a target on the back of all liberal politicians for the next election.

Whether it is 100K or 500K people, the intensity of the participants is unprecedented.

Deborah K

09-14-2009, 10:17 AM

Satellite views of both the inauguration and the 9/12 march would settle this.

Stary Hickory

09-14-2009, 12:46 PM

How the hell anyone can say this protest was anything less than 100's of thousands of people? Come on, take your bias out of it people..

Only people with obvious bias and who are supposedly for truth and reason. I find anyone who cannot look objectively at the photos and not conclude that this crowd was one of the biggest ever in DC is simply not worth talking with anymore.

How can I trust them to be honest on any number of issues when a simple thing like the size of a crowd is a huge obstacle to them.

ronpaulhawaii

09-14-2009, 01:46 PM

Only people with obvious bias and who are supposedly for truth and reason. I find anyone who cannot look objectively at the photos and not conclude that this crowd was one of the biggest ever in DC is simply not worth talking with anymore.

How can I trust them to be honest on any number of issues when a simple thing like the size of a crowd is a huge obstacle to them.

I can understand estimates of "hundreds of thousands," That is debatable. But MILLIONS???

Seems like wishful thinking is getting the best of some of our friends.

Now, the only thing I have to compare is O's Inauguration.

First a question. Does anyone think that the old media under-estimated crowd size at the inaguration? I'd imagine the 1.2 million figure is on the top end of estimates. Now let's look at some pics...

Did the 9/12 march have this kind of crowd down at the Lincoln Memorial?

http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2009/01/19/alg_mall-crowd-1.jpg

Now lets look at the Capitol side of the mall

http://cindystephenson.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/inauguration1.jpg

zooming in, it looks like the sidewalks down Penn Ave are packed. And more importantly, the density of those on the mall. I have not seen a pic of the 9/12 march that did not show vast sections of green, (and those pics were taken at a lower level). Further I hear talk of stadiums, yet haven't heard anyone mention the mini - stadium they built for this event.

A few hundred thousand? maybe... Over a million? Show me a pic to counter these....

Primbs

09-14-2009, 01:59 PM

Great pictures. The crowds were all the way to fifth street, over by the art museums.

Further, there were people who filled up the restaurants, pennsylvania ave, union station from what I could tell. There were probably other areas I couldn't see.

You could easily have another fifty thousand people in other areas.

But what counts is are the efforts that we are doing after the march. Many of the people are part of many local tea party organizations and other allied groups who have received training on political organizing and are now focusing their attention on their respective congressional districts.

ronpaulhawaii

09-14-2009, 02:40 PM

But what counts is are the efforts that we are doing after the march. Many of the people are part of many local tea party organizations and other allied groups who have received training on political organizing and are now focusing their attention on their respective congressional districts.

+2010

And I have found I can easily network with the soft neo-cons, promoting my principals. I have even been able to agree to disagree with more hardcore types, without backing down at all. It is so important for us to be there and be strong during these type events. It is a numbers game. Most people are what we might describe as "on the fence", except, they really haven't given it much thought. Like most Americans, they just want to be left alone; The "sleeping giant". It is those folks who agree most with our messege, we just need to be there for them and present ourselves with calm confidence in the stregnth of our position.

What really got my goat into starting this thread was seeing Malkin&Co pushing the "MILLIONS!!!" and duping my friends. If the attendance debate was between the old medias underestimates and our own underestimates, we would be winning the propoganda war. We should be proud to see gathered 100k on their own dime to this event, much less the arguable few hundred thou. Instead you have wild overestimations and people looking like fools.

More important than the derision and dismissal of the left, is the observations of the stirring giant... With them, humble truth trumps exaggerated braggidacio, everytime

tremendoustie

09-14-2009, 03:00 PM

+2010

And I have found I can easily network with the soft neo-cons, promoting my principals. I have even been able to agree to disagree with more hardcore types, without backing down at all. It is so important for us to be there and be strong during these type events. It is a numbers game. Most people are what we might describe as "on the fence", except, they really haven't given it much thought. Like most Americans, they just want to be left alone; The "sleeping giant". It is those folks who agree most with our messege, we just need to be there for them and present ourselves with calm confidence in the stregnth of our position.

What really got my goat into starting this thread was seeing Malkin&Co pushing the "MILLIONS!!!" and duping my friends. If the attendance debate was between the old medias underestimates and our own underestimates, we would be winning the propoganda war. We should be proud to see gathered 100k on their own dime to this event, much less the arguable few hundred thou. Instead you have wild overestimations and people looking like fools.

More important than the derision and dismissal of the left, is the observations of the stirring giant... With them, humble truth trumps exaggerated braggidacio, everytime

Well said.

Number19

09-14-2009, 04:14 PM

I don't know if I heard correctly, on Sean Hannity, or if the statement was correct, but I think I heard that 45,000 permits were issued for this event. Has anyone heard or seen this number before? If accurate, this number of permits would easily represent "hundreds of thousands".

I would really like to see harder evidence that the number is a million, but am of the opinion that a more accurate estimate is in the range of 250,000 to 500,000. Last night, when comparing photos of our event with the inauguration, I too noticed the difference in numbers.

But I'm not put off by this lower number. About a month ago I heard a remark on the radio that sponsors were expecting about 100,000. I think expectations were greatly exceeded and represent a resounding political statement. Next year's elections kick off in only 3 1/2 months, with filing deadlines by the end of December, for the spring primary elections. Publicly, the msm is presenting a front of no concern, but privately, the liberals are very much aware of what Saturday represents. And so do some Republicans.