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LibertiORDeth
09-12-2009, 03:09 AM
If a project were to start like that of the Liberty Island idea I had (which sadly died out due to disinterest) in which you were able to obtain an allodial title upon purchasing land on it (at an inexpensive price) would you do it? Also assume in this scenario that your rights to the land are respected.

dr. hfn
09-12-2009, 03:10 AM
Tropical Island with lots of land...we have amazing money raising abilities...we can do this...

Objectivist
09-12-2009, 03:11 AM
History lesson before you decide.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitcairn_Islands

bunklocoempire
09-12-2009, 06:48 AM
Would you move to an island?


I did move to an island. :D



Bunkloco

Live_Free_Or_Die
09-12-2009, 06:59 AM
Presented with a choice of living on a tropical island with people who understand and love principles of liberty or spending the rest of my life trying to convince people on the merits of the principles of liberty.

I would choose the island any day of the week, the risks of defending it, and the hardships of building it.

jm1776
09-12-2009, 07:15 AM
We don't necessarily need to buy one. We could just start the Free Island project. :)

I nominate the Cook Islands.

http://www.cook-islands.gov.ck/cook-islands.php

I spent several weeks there in the 80's while sailing a 34' yawl from California to Australia. English speaking, low population, warm and friendly people, great climate, agriculture and fishing, independent government with ties to New Zealand. Very much in the middle of nowhere.

awake
09-12-2009, 07:17 AM
Autarky sounds romantic, but in practice you will find it a huge reduction in your standard of living. Not to mention the back breaking labour involved in providing even the simplest things.

Our task is to restore sound money, limited government and liberty. Trying to escape this task is impossible. Even trying to find an island somewhere, for it would only be a matter of time until the government would find you. As Mises put it,"Everyone carries a part of society on his shoulders, no one is relieved of his share of responsibility by others. And no one can find a safe way for himself if society is sweeping towards destruction. Therefore everyone, in his own interest, must thrust himself vigorously into the intellectual battle."

LibForestPaul
09-12-2009, 07:20 AM
Sure, and what currency would be used, a gold backed currency...??? :)
I heard Caymen Islands and Liechtenstein banking havens are going away. Maybe a new island using gold backed currency could be started.

brandon
09-12-2009, 07:28 AM
http://www.privateislandsonline.com/hangoverisland.htm

Hangover island, $20,000/acre

Live_Free_Or_Die
09-12-2009, 07:33 AM
Autarky sounds romantic, but in practice you will find it a huge reduction in your standard of living. Not to mention the back breaking labour involved in providing even the simplest things.

Our task is to restore sound money, limited government and liberty. Trying to escape this task is impossible. Even trying to find an island somewhere, for it would only be a matter of time until the government would find you. As Mises put it,"Everyone carries a part of society on his shoulders, no one is relieved of his share of responsibility by others. And no one can find a safe way for himself if society is sweeping towards destruction. Therefore everyone, in his own interest, must thrust himself vigorously into the intellectual battle."

Some people are not intimidated by a decrease in a standard of living (of course you are measuring by modern day consumption and amenities) and back breaking labor. Then there are those who find such an idea repugnant but might be the first ones to relocate once an island matured and offered modern amenities. :)

jm1776
09-12-2009, 07:58 AM
Autarky sounds romantic, but in practice you will find it a huge reduction in your standard of living. Not to mention the back breaking labour involved in providing even the simplest things.

Our task is to restore sound money, limited government and liberty. Trying to escape this task is impossible. Even trying to find an island somewhere, for it would only be a matter of time until the government would find you. As Mises put it,"Everyone carries a part of society on his shoulders, no one is relieved of his share of responsibility by others. And no one can find a safe way for himself if society is sweeping towards destruction. Therefore everyone, in his own interest, must thrust himself vigorously into the intellectual battle."

I agree with Mises in principle however I also have a friend who risked life and limb to escaped Soviet Russia, pre Berlin wall. He could mount a defendable counter argument.

JeNNiF00F00
09-12-2009, 11:49 AM
I would do it. Id prefer somewhere in the Caribbean.

tmosley
09-12-2009, 12:34 PM
You would HAVE to have a military if you wanted to remain independent. That said, there are a lot of options for autonomous military defenses that would be useful against third world navies. I'm thinking buoys with Metal Storm pods installed on them. I also read about some deep submersibles that are coming available on the open market that have greater dive ability then military subs, and have robotic arms to boot. This would give the ability to rig explosives onto enemy ships fairly easily, possibly even remotely.

That said, no, I wouldn't do that. It would be easier to build a free conclave here on land than it would be to do it on some island (islands are poor for a reason, and they have low populations for the same reason).

Indeed, on a recent trip to New Mexico, I identified a few nice mountain valleys that could be self sustainable, with only two ways in or out (or fewer), all of which could be easily blocked with a few boxes of dynamite. Of course both of these had fairly major cities in them. It would be better to find others without so many people.

lynnf
09-12-2009, 12:51 PM
things never turn out the way you think they would -- and that's part of the problem with big government, too! unintended consequences (i.e. collateral damage)

I thought a long time ago that I wanted to get away from the ratrace and move to the islands. a wise friend steered me to some suggested reading before doing that:

An Island to Myself by Tom Neale

Fatu Hiva by Thor Heyerdahl

and you already have the example of Pitcairn Island in a previous post

granted, these are extreme examples but they show the likelihood of things going awry

lynn

Minlawc
09-12-2009, 02:52 PM
What would be the incentive. If there's freedom that's great, not mentioning it may still be apart of a big government body, but without any reason other than fiscal and social freedom what's the point in leaving my friends and family.

Sandman33
09-12-2009, 02:55 PM
Can we bring some Democrats over to use as cheap labor? Since they seem to want big brother to do EVERYTHING for them we can supply them with food, shelter, and health care. They will recieve NO pay just those three things. And in turn they can tend to all the agriculture and housekeeping while we libertarians can enjoy our freedom.

Live_Free_Or_Die
09-12-2009, 03:30 PM
What would be the incentive. If there's freedom that's great, not mentioning it may still be apart of a big government body, but without any reason other than fiscal and social freedom what's the point in leaving my friends and family.

Profit. Money loves a free market.

dr. hfn
09-12-2009, 05:37 PM
We seriously can do this if we want to. A moneybomb for the island and its ours!

mport1
09-12-2009, 05:58 PM
I like this idea, however, this kind of thing has actually been tried before. A libertarian island was started and then taken over by the King of Tonga in 1972. Link 1 (http://worldwideliberty.blogspot.com/2008/12/long-abandoned-tonga-libertarian-utopia.html) Link 2 (http://www.boogieonline.com/revolution/politics/utopia.html)

I think the Free State Project (http://www.freestateproject.org) and Seasteading (http://seasteading.org/)are good options as well.

CasualApathy
09-12-2009, 06:46 PM
What is it with this urge to isolate yourselves?! Popular movements turn into cults when people start seeking inwards too much.

Live_Free_Or_Die
09-12-2009, 07:34 PM
What is it with this urge to isolate yourselves?! Popular movements turn into cults when people start seeking inwards too much.

Where you see isolation, I see opportunity.

muzzled dogg
09-12-2009, 07:41 PM
ehhh mebbe

silverhawks
09-12-2009, 07:45 PM
No, if just from the point of view of defense. If you have a concentration of people on an island that is in any way shape or form in opposition to the state, that cannot be controlled by the state, they are going to become a single, easily destroyed target.

If you stay on a continental landmass disseminated throughout a large population, I'd say there's more chance of evading hostility, and preserving liberty.

I'd stand my ground and fight for liberty here every time rather than run to a tropical island.

Sic Semper Tyrannis
09-12-2009, 09:22 PM
Indeed, on a recent trip to New Mexico, I identified a few nice mountain valleys that could be self sustainable, with only two ways in or out (or fewer), all of which could be easily blocked with a few boxes of dynamite. Of course both of these had fairly major cities in them. It would be better to find others without so many people.


Visit Montana.

micahnelson
09-12-2009, 09:27 PM
I already live on an island.

dr. hfn
09-12-2009, 09:44 PM
Moneybomb for an island!

Sic Semper Tyrannis
09-12-2009, 09:57 PM
History lesson before you decide.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitcairn_Islands

There are Libertarians trying to buy Pitcairn. The want to set up a place called "Freedonia". Here's an article on Pitcairn on their website.

www.freedonia.org/pitcairn (http://www.freedonia.org/pitcairn.html)

Objectivist
09-13-2009, 02:57 AM
There are Libertarians trying to buy Pitcairn. The want to set up a place called "Freedonia". Here's an article on Pitcairn on their website.

www.freedonia.org/pitcairn (http://www.freedonia.org/pitcairn.html)

Thanks for the story, here's my concern.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitcairn_sexual_assault_trial_of_2004

Live_Free_Or_Die
09-13-2009, 03:37 AM
There are Libertarians trying to buy Pitcairn. The want to set up a place called "Freedonia". Here's an article on Pitcairn on their website.

www.freedonia.org/pitcairn (http://www.freedonia.org/pitcairn.html)

Have any contact information for the people pursuing that?

LibertiORDeth
09-14-2009, 03:33 AM
Sure, and what currency would be used, a gold backed currency...??? :)
I heard Caymen Islands and Liechtenstein banking havens are going away. Maybe a new island using gold backed currency could be started.

As signified by the allodial titles, there would be no "official" currency, as nobody would or could be forced to participate in a currency or even government if they choose not to. However a gold back currency would most likely be the prevailing source of transferring goods and services, or some other commodity backed currency.

LibertiORDeth
09-14-2009, 03:36 AM
You would HAVE to have a military if you wanted to remain independent. That said, there are a lot of options for autonomous military defenses that would be useful against third world navies. I'm thinking buoys with Metal Storm pods installed on them. I also read about some deep submersibles that are coming available on the open market that have greater dive ability then military subs, and have robotic arms to boot. This would give the ability to rig explosives onto enemy ships fairly easily, possibly even remotely.

That said, no, I wouldn't do that. It would be easier to build a free conclave here on land than it would be to do it on some island (islands are poor for a reason, and they have low populations for the same reason).

Indeed, on a recent trip to New Mexico, I identified a few nice mountain valleys that could be self sustainable, with only two ways in or out (or fewer), all of which could be easily blocked with a few boxes of dynamite. Of course both of these had fairly major cities in them. It would be better to find others without so many people.

The point of an island would be that it would probably be the only place in which we could have international respect for our sovereignty. Setting up in the "middle of new mexico" obviously wouldn't give us the aforementioned.

LibertiORDeth
09-14-2009, 03:37 AM
What is it with this urge to isolate yourselves?! Popular movements turn into cults when people start seeking inwards too much.

I have no "urge to isolate" myself, if I did I wouldn't be trying to bring you guys along :p. I'm just trying to find a place where I can be completely free and happy.

Sic Semper Tyrannis
09-14-2009, 08:58 PM
Thanks for the story, here's my concern.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitcairn_sexual_assault_trial_of_2004

lol yeah, I read about that already Can you imagine what they would do to the first woman to step foot on that island? Maybe we should bring a boatload of whores first? Libertarian whores though.... I'm sure there's plenty of them out there looking to make their profession legal.

Sic Semper Tyrannis
09-14-2009, 09:02 PM
Have any contact information for the people pursuing that?

It's all on www.freedonia.org (http://www.freedonia.org)

max
09-14-2009, 09:07 PM
i volunteer to be the central banker. we shall use sea shells as the currency of the island.

I'll provide stability by lending newly gathered shells into circulation

revolutionisnow
09-14-2009, 09:11 PM
I think just start our own community in an already functioning country with a cheaper cost of living and less government. The same thing that has been done with China towns.

RevolutionSD
09-14-2009, 09:23 PM
Would this island have true freedom or "small government"?

BuddyRey
09-15-2009, 03:53 AM
Bump, and ditto to the moneybomb idea. I'd donate!

dr. hfn
09-15-2009, 03:56 AM
Paulville was a complete failure right? The way the world is going, I would definitely move to a Liberty Island.

BuddyRey
09-15-2009, 04:43 AM
Paulville was a complete failure right? The way the world is going, I would definitely move to a Liberty Island.

I hadn't heard that about Paulville. What happened?

revolutionisnow
09-15-2009, 08:33 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paulville,_Texas

tangent4ronpaul
09-15-2009, 08:57 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paulville,_Texas

This is Linda Honeycuts project, isn't it?


As a different idea, what about tribal land? - like get long term leases for lots from the Indians. Basically they are sovereign territory. At least one set up a bank and was minting it's own currency. No taxes on cigs or alcohol, maybe no taxes period... I think there is some federal authority over them, but it's different. Health clinics are conically underfunded though.

-t

Revolution0918
09-15-2009, 09:38 AM
i bet we could get some cheap land on the bikini atoll....oooo wait...:)

Pennsylvania
09-15-2009, 09:52 AM
Only if the island were right off the coast of New Hampshire, such as the Isles of Shoals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isles_of_Shoals).

LibertiORDeth
09-16-2009, 04:43 AM
Would this island have true freedom or "small government"?

I think I've made it clear several times throughout the thread that the island shall have "true freedom":rolleyes:.

LibertiORDeth
09-16-2009, 04:46 AM
Only if the island were right off the coast of New Hampshire, such as the Isles of Shoals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isles_of_Shoals).

Yeah because we know that New Hampshire just LOVES liberty :rolleyes:.

Warrior_of_Freedom
09-16-2009, 05:24 AM
no, chances are it will be used for some kind of test

Bucjason
09-16-2009, 05:31 AM
Stranded on a desert island where anarchy reigns ?? Sounds like the plot to "Lord of the FLies"

I'll pass. :D

Live_Free_Or_Die
09-16-2009, 06:14 AM
This is Linda Honeycuts project, isn't it?


As a different idea, what about tribal land? - like get long term leases for lots from the Indians. Basically they are sovereign territory. At least one set up a bank and was minting it's own currency. No taxes on cigs or alcohol, maybe no taxes period... I think there is some federal authority over them, but it's different. Health clinics are conically underfunded though.

-t

Property rights are not in indian culture.

The federal government imposes taxes when goods are exported off of the reservation.

The federal government has not respected the treaties made with the indian people.

Just pointing out it is not without risk.

Pennsylvania
09-16-2009, 07:41 AM
Yeah because we know that New Hampshire just LOVES liberty :rolleyes:.

No doubt there is much to be improved. I still think the FSP is our best hope though.

Live_Free_Or_Die
09-16-2009, 08:42 AM
No doubt there is much to be improved. I still think the FSP is our best hope though.

I think if the FSP picked a warmer climate and started on a smaller geographical scale it would have obtained a lot more support.

KAYA
09-16-2009, 09:11 AM
If a project were to start like that of the Liberty Island idea I had (which sadly died out due to disinterest) in which you were able to obtain an allodial title upon purchasing land on it (at an inexpensive price) would you do it? Also assume in this scenario that your rights to the land are respected.

I'm down with that!

Minlawc
09-16-2009, 09:25 AM
Maybe this http://seasteading.org/, will work out.

I just can't see you getting true independence on an island in someone else's territory.