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View Full Version : Wilscon 'You Lie' Heckle was Pre Arranged [Mod edit: OPINION]




InterestedParticipant
09-10-2009, 12:53 AM
This "you lie heckle" event during Obama's "speech" was not spontaneous but manufactured. Just gage Obama's verbal response and body language to other confrontations he has experienced. Obama knew it was coming and was prepared with an immediate response... "that's not true" as he "gracefully" continued with his "speech."

As media is just being published on the "event," it is still too early to determine all of the reasons for its manufacture, but here is a very preliminary assessment:


Wilson is supposed to psychologically represent America's most vocal dissenting voices, like those we've seen at Townhall's nationally. As a Neocon, Wilson is 'supposed' to represent Conservative American who have been most vocal against the healthcare bill;
The "you lie" outburst was done as a yell from the audience to reflect the publics inability to articulate anything other than slogan and screams from afar, as the public is just an angry mob of bystanders (I'm trying to represent the psychology that they seek to articulate here, this is not my opinion on the American public);
Wilson almost immediately backs down apologizing for his outburst, with this act representing total and quick acquiescence by the public with no discussion of the merit behind the outburst.


I see this as almost like a predictive programming event, where the public is supposed to take Wilson's leads in their behavior, and fall on our swords as the great leader Obama takes us to a better direction even thought we (the public) are too unsophisticated to understand that this is what he is doing.

I will add more thoughts, or modify these thoughts in this thread as more information comes to light.. Again, this is just very preliminary observations.

Reason
09-10-2009, 12:54 AM
Anything's possible.

InterestedParticipant
09-10-2009, 01:01 AM
Anything's possible.
One has to evaluate it based upon its allegorical psychological impact, and I think when one does that they find that the results of the incident are in keeping with what the establishment wants, which is for Conservative America to be scared and to shut the "F" up and go back inside their homes and turn on their HDTV's.

FrankRep
09-10-2009, 01:01 AM
Maybe it's true, maybe it's not.

InterestedParticipant
09-10-2009, 01:05 AM
Maybe it's true, maybe it's not.
That is totally not cool, you are fabricating quotes from me. If people click on the link icon in the quote, you will see it takes you no where. I never said what this poster is claiming I said. It's fabricated, and totally not cool. C'mon Frank, play by Josh's rules... they're more than fair.

PS. I screen grabbed it before you edited the reference and removed it.

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/1012/showthreadphpp2308851po.jpg

iddo
09-10-2009, 01:07 AM
InterestedParticipant, your well thought out analysis is so brilliant, I doubt that you just spontaneously written it down now. I think that you prepared it several days in advance, in fact I think that Wilson, Obama, and you are all in on this. You three should be ashamed of yourselves for spreading disinfo with this manufactured controversy.

InterestedParticipant
09-10-2009, 01:14 AM
InterestedParticipant, your well thought out analysis is so brilliant, I doubt that you just spontaneously written it down now. I think that you prepared it several days in advance, in fact I think that Wilson, Obama, and you are all in on this. You three should be ashamed of yourselves for spreading disinfo with this manufactured controversy.
Yup, these guys are just bumbling idiots who stumble through political office while they effectively and totally manage to deceive most of the American public almost all the time for the last 100 years.

FrankRep
09-10-2009, 01:22 AM
That is totally not cool, you are fabricating quotes from me. If people click on the link icon in the quote, you will see it takes you no where. I never said what this poster is claiming I said. It's fabricated, and totally not cool. C'mon Frank, play by Josh's rules... they're more than fair.

I'm not a fan Joe Wilson, but everything thing is a conspiracy with you. You have absolutely no proof except mere speculations.

InterestedParticipant
09-10-2009, 01:25 AM
I'm not a fan Joe Wilson, but everything thing is a conspiracy with you. You have absolutely no proof except mere speculations.
Perhaps JBS should start teaching a course in psy-war or 4th Generational Warfare, because we're running blind if we can't see the propaganda techniques ... or worse, if we merely scoff and dismiss any discussion of them.

Reason
09-10-2009, 01:26 AM
I'm not a fan Joe Wilson, but everything thing is a conspiracy with you. You have absolutely no proof except mere speculations.

Did he make some sort of claim that he had proof?

No.

Please refer to the below legitimate quote


I see this as

Bman
09-10-2009, 01:27 AM
Yup, these guys are just bumbling idiots who stumble through political office while they effectively and totally manage to deceive most of the American public almost all the time for the last 100 years.

Actually I believe they are bumbling idiots. I like how my US Gov Professor (also fraternity advisor) explained the American politician.

The story goes something like this.

Dick, who owns multiple companies and is rich, fortune 500 rich has 3 sons. Tom, Bill, and Joe.

Tom is brilliant, the smartest of the three and his father teaches tom how to take over his position.

Bill is smart, not as smart as Tom but still pretty intelligent. Dick finds a good place in the company for him, high ranking but not at the top.

Then there is Joe.

Joe is an idiot. Can barely tie his shoes much less get good grades in school. Dick convinces Joe that he should run for political office.

See Dick knows that Joe is too stupid to make choices on his own, and will be able to control all of Joes choices.

InterestedParticipant
09-10-2009, 01:35 AM
Actually I believe they are bumbling idiots. I like how my US Gov Professor (also fraternity advisor) explained the American politician.

The story goes something like this.

Dick, who owns multiple companies and is rich, fortune 500 rich has 3 sons. Tom, Bill, and Joe.

Tom is brilliant, the smartest of the three and his father teaches tom how to take over his position.

Bill is smart, not as smart as Tom but still pretty intelligent. Dick finds a good place in the company for him, high ranking but not at the top.

Then there is Joe.

Joe is an idiot. Can barely tie his shoes much less get good grades in school. Dick convinces Joe that he should run for political office.

See Dick knows that Joe is too stupid to make choices on his own, and will be able to control all of Joes choices.
What your Gov professor fails to relay in this story is the enormous technocracy that these politicians have as their disposal, including decades of research in human psychology, sociology and American culture. They also have thousands of some of the best minds in the world, working in research labs with enormous budgets and incredible resources. In short, one must look at the system of governance, which includes the vast resources that the politician has access to. It is this total system that has more than ample knowledge of mass manipulation techniques, techniques that include staged events and pre-planned media coverage in order to generate a planned response from the audience, which in this case is the American public.

Bman
09-10-2009, 01:44 AM
What your Gov professor fails to relay in this story is the enormous technocracy that these politicians have as their disposal, including decades of research in human psychology, sociology and American culture. They also have thousands of some of the best minds in the world, working in research labs with enormous budgets and incredible resources. In short, one must look at the system of governance, which includes the vast resources that the politician has access to. It is this total system that has more than ample knowledge of mass manipulation techniques, techniques that include staged events and pre-planned media coverage in order to generate a planned response from the audience, which in this case is the American public.

I'm not saying things aren't planned out. I'm just saying the puppets aren't doing the planning.

InterestedParticipant
09-10-2009, 01:46 AM
I'm not saying things aren't planned out. I'm just saying the puppets aren't doing the planning.
I'm cool with that assessment.

But I'm not evaluating them in isolation of their support systems, I'm looking at their entire complex as one big machine.

Live_Free_Or_Die
09-10-2009, 02:00 AM
InterestedParticipant, your well thought out analysis is so brilliant, I doubt that you just spontaneously written it down now. I think that you prepared it several days in advance, in fact I think that Wilson, Obama, and you are all in on this. You three should be ashamed of yourselves for spreading disinfo with this manufactured controversy.

that one.

anaconda
09-10-2009, 03:27 AM
Perhaps JBS should start teaching a course in psy-war or 4th Generational Warfare, because we're running blind if we can't see the propaganda techniques ... or worse, if we merely scoff and dismiss any discussion of them.

Interesting point. But who would put him up to it and what would he gain? Why him in particular? Perhaps every town haller should preface their shout downs with "Joe Wilson does not speak for me, and he does not apologize for me!" A fightback against psy-ops.

ChooseLiberty
09-10-2009, 04:45 AM
Whether or not it was staged, you're psych analysis sounds about right.

Even if it wasn't staged all together, it could just be the neocons trying to round up the sheeple straying from the flock.

"Hey look Marge, that Wilson sure did stand up to Obama. He's must be a real patriot."


IMAGINE
Artist: John Lenin


Imagine there are no real political parties
It's easy if you try
No terrists attacking us
Above us one big eye
Imagine all the people
controlled by one entity...

You may say I'm a conspiracist
but I'm not the only one.
Maybe someday you'll join us
before the world will be as one. :D




This "you lie heckle" event during Obama's "speech" was not spontaneous but manufactured. Just gage Obama's verbal response and body language to other confrontations he has experienced. Obama knew it was coming and was prepared with an immediate response... "that's not true" as he "gracefully" continued with his "speech."

As media is just being published on the "event," it is still too early to determine all of the reasons for its manufacture, but here is a very preliminary assessment:


Wilson is supposed to psychologically represent America's most vocal dissenting voices, like those we've seen at Townhall's nationally. As a Neocon, Wilson is 'supposed' to represent Conservative American who have been most vocal against the healthcare bill;
The "you lie" outburst was done as a yell from the audience to reflect the publics inability to articulate anything other than slogan and screams from afar, as the public is just an angry mob of bystanders (I'm trying to represent the psychology that they seek to articulate here, this is not my opinion on the American public);
Wilson almost immediately backs down apologizing for his outburst, with this act representing total and quick acquiescence by the public with no discussion of the merit behind the outburst.


I see this as almost like a predictive programming event, where the public is supposed to take Wilson's leads in their behavior, and fall on our swords as the great leader Obama takes us to a better direction even thought we (the public) are too unsophisticated to understand that this is what he is doing.

I will add more thoughts, or modify these thoughts in this thread as more information comes to light.. Again, this is just very preliminary observations.

Romulus
09-10-2009, 05:12 AM
cmon.. it was a spur of the moment outburst - nothing more or less.

SelfTaught
09-10-2009, 05:39 AM
Maybe he had a couple or more drinks before the speech. Then his rowdy side broke out after being there for a half hour or so.

FrankRep
09-10-2009, 05:41 AM
That is totally not cool, you are fabricating quotes from me. If people click on the link icon in the quote, you will see it takes you no where. I never said what this poster is claiming I said. It's fabricated, and totally not cool. C'mon Frank, play by Josh's rules... they're more than fair.

PS. I screen grabbed it before you edited the reference and removed it.

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/1012/showthreadphpp2308851po.jpg

It's a conspiracy!

Cowlesy
09-10-2009, 05:45 AM
Awesome. I knew this thread would be started sooner or later.

FrankRep
09-10-2009, 05:58 AM
Awesome. I knew this thread would be started sooner or later.
Shouldn't this be in hot topics?

ChooseLiberty
09-10-2009, 06:00 AM
No, it's a COOL topic.


Shouldn't this be in hot topics?

American Idol
09-10-2009, 06:04 AM
Agreed. Also watch Pelosi and Biden's reaction and the Congressman holding the "What Bill?" sign. My first thought upon seeing the clip is that it looked like a bad Saturday Night Live skit.

American Idol
09-10-2009, 06:12 AM
I see this as almost like a predictive programming event, where the public is supposed to take Wilson's leads in their behavior, and fall on our swords as the great leader Obama takes us to a better direction even thought we (the public) are too unsophisticated to understand that this is what he is doing.


Did you see John McCain's response to this? It was something like: "Wilson was totally out of line and should immediately apologize for this outrageous outburst."

Wha?!?!

Hey McCain:

http://thelostjacket.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/welcome_to_fail.jpg

Bucjason
09-10-2009, 06:40 AM
It may have been arranged, but if it was , it was by the republicans to derail King Barry...Barry wouldn't have been in on it.

tonesforjonesbones
09-10-2009, 06:59 AM
Here's the way I see it. Obama has a way of hypnotizing people..something about his speech patterns and body movements, hand gestures...now. TONES was almost convinced by Obama's hypnosis but when ole Joe yelled out "YOU LIE!" TONES snapped out of it pretty damn quick like. Tones shook her head and realized once again..Obama IS a liar! TONES :)

SelfTaught
09-10-2009, 07:10 AM
Here's the way I see it. Obama has a way of hypnotizing people..something about his speech patterns and body movements, hand gestures...now. TONES was almost convinced by Obama's hypnosis but when ole Joe yelled out "YOU LIE!" TONES snapped out of it pretty damn quick like. Tones shook her head and realized once again..Obama IS a liar! TONES :)

You're a girl? Sorry, I always got the impression that you were a dude.

InterestedParticipant
09-10-2009, 08:40 AM
cmon.. it was a spur of the moment outburst - nothing more or less.
"In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way."

Franklin D. Roosevelt


Interesting point. But who would put him up to it and what would he gain? Why him in particular? Perhaps every town haller should preface their shout downs with "Joe Wilson does not speak for me, and he does not apologize for me!" A fightback against psy-ops.
First, what one needs to realize is that both political parties work together at the highest levels, philosophical differences are acts put-on for the publics interest only. So, who knows what Wilson got, maybe he was promised $2M in campaign support from various corporate donors, or maybe he'll get a sweetheart bill passed for his district... it could be anything. The bottom line is, Wilson doesn't give a damn about anything other than Wilson, so if all he had to do was scream a couple of words for a big payoff, then why not do it.



Shouldn't this be in hot topics?
This is a valid & meaningful discussion of what may have occurred last night. Are we only allowed to discuss what you consider to be politically correct topics in the General Politics subforum, is that what you seek?

But what is more important here is that if anyone reviews your posts in this thread I think they would conclude that you have sought to disrail this thread from the start. Every one of your posts can be considered an attack, either by discrediting me or mocking the topic. What exactly is it that scares you about this discussion and what possible reason could you have for this fear?

sevin
09-10-2009, 08:46 AM
This "you lie heckle" event during Obama's "speech" was not spontaneous but manufactured. Just gage Obama's verbal response and body language to other confrontations he has experienced. Obama knew it was coming and was prepared with an immediate response... "that's not true" as he "gracefully" continued with his "speech."

Are you saying there's no way he could have thought to say "that's not true" without being told to ahead of time. I mean, when someone calls my a liar, my instinct is to say, "That's not true."


Wilson almost immediately backs down apologizing for his outburst, with this act representing total and quick acquiescence by the public with no discussion of the merit behind the outburst.

I see this as almost like a predictive programming event, where the public is supposed to take Wilson's leads in their behavior, and fall on our swords as the great leader Obama takes us to a better direction even thought we (the public) are too unsophisticated to understand that this is what he is doing.


Although that I think this event will (unfortunately) have the psychological affect on the public that you predict, I still find it highly unlikely that Wilson and Obama planned this ahead of time behind closed doors. No way.

Romulus
09-10-2009, 08:56 AM
In politics, you can't control everything and everybody.

InterestedParticipant
09-10-2009, 08:58 AM
Are you saying there's no way he could have thought to say "that's not true" without being told to ahead of time. I mean, when someone calls my a liar, my instinct is to say, "That's not true."
If this was not planned Obama would have had a very different reaction, one that would have appeared much more uncomfortable to the TV audience. Just look at what happens to Obama when the teleprompter fails, or when he was asked an unscripted questions in a townhall during the campaign.... he can't get his words out straight.


Although that I think this event will (unfortunately) have the psychological affect on the public that you predict, I still find it highly unlikely that Wilson and Obama planned this ahead of time behind closed doors. No way.
Wilson and Obama did NOT plan this event. Think of these guys as high level order takers from an enormous and highly sophisticated technocracy, which I discussed earlier in this thread. These events are always highly scripted and controlled, and would have had an "advance team" that would have been responsible for setting-up all aspects of the event, and providing the appropriate instructions to all parties involved, included the political actors, their parts, and their lines.

zach
09-10-2009, 09:13 AM
all I know is, Pelosi looked pissed off beyond mention, and I savored that instance.

InterestedParticipant
09-10-2009, 09:45 AM
In the OP I made it clear that my analysis was only preliminary and that I would be updating it as new information became available. Well, with this new story by RawStory, the picture just became more clear, and in my opinion further supports my original thesis that the event was staged.

The RawStory piece paint Joe Wilson as a Health Industry pimp who has taken approximately $250K from industry sources:


"In fact, over his entire congressional career, health professionals represent Wilson’s top industry contributors, donating a total of $244,196 to his campaign, according to the Center for Responsive Politics OpenSecrets.org database. He received another $86,150 from pharmaceutical companies, $73,050 from insurance companies and $68,000 from hospitals and nursing homes."

By doing this the media is attempting to position Obama as the proponent for the public, fighting against Health care special interests. So, by creating a conflict (ie dialectic) between Obama and Wilson with the "You Lie" outburst, they are attempting to manufacture a battle between the health care lobby and the public, where Obama is being positioned on the side of the public.

The only problem with this strategy is that Obama has taken approx. $15M from the Health care and Hospitals/Nursing Homes lobbies. But this fact will be lost on the public, and the media will attempt to frame Obama as the publics savior.




Obama speech disrupter a health industry darling
By Sue Sturgis
Published: September 10, 2009
http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/09/10/obama-speech-disrupter-a-health-industry-darling/


During President Obama’s address on health insurance reform to a joint session of Congress last night, he observed that some people have been spreading bad information about his proposal — and that contrary to what’s been said it would not cover illegal immigrants.

At that point the president was interrupted by Rep. Addison Graves “Joe” Wilson (right), a Republican from South Carolina.

“You lie!” Wilson shouted from the crowd.

Obama paused for a moment before continuing his address as Wilson’s colleagues looked on in shock following the breach of protocol.

Whether because of his outspokenness or in spite of it, Wilson is a major recipient of contributions from the health care industry.

In fact, over his entire congressional career, health professionals represent Wilson’s top industry contributors, donating a total of $244,196 to his campaign, according to the Center for Responsive Politics OpenSecrets.org database. He received another $86,150 from pharmaceutical companies, $73,050 from insurance companies and $68,000 from hospitals and nursing homes.

Among Wilson’s top contributors are the American Hospital Association, a lobby group that represents the interests of hospitals and health networks, and the American Medical Association, which represents physicians.

During a post-speech interview with CNN’s Larry King, Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) said Wilson should apologize, calling his behavior “totally disrespectful.” Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky told the New York Times that Wilson’s behavior was “not appropriate.”

Wilson’s office later issued an apology for the outburst:

“This evening I let my emotions get the best of me when listening to the president’s remarks regarding the coverage of illegal immigrants in the health care bill. While I disagree with the president’s statement, my comments were inappropriate and regrettable. I extend sincere apologies to the president for this lack of civility.”

It was not the first time Wilson — attorney, U.S. Army vet and former aide to U.S. Senator Strom Thurmond — has raised eyebrows by shouting at political opponents.

Seven years ago this month, the then-freshman Wilson appeared on C-SPAN’s “Washington Journal” with five-term Congressman Bob Filner (D-Calif.) to discuss whether to go to war in Iraq, action that Filner opposed but Wilson supported. In the course of the discussion, Filner noted that the U.S. supplied weapons to Saddam Hussein’s regime during the Iran-Iraq War — a fact revealed by the investigation into the Iran-Contra Affair, which discovered the Reagan administration secretly sold weapons to Iran, then under an arms embargo, to win support for freeing U.S. hostages in Lebanon and to fund the Nicaraguan contras, a counterrevolutionary rebel force that was fighting the country’s government.

But Filner’s statement incensed Wilson, as the Washington Post reported at the time:

“That is wrong. That’s made up,” Wilson fired back. “I can’t believe you would say something like that.”


When Filner calmly held his ground, advising Wilson to read newspaper reports and other documentation, the Republican erupted: “This hatred of America by some people is just outrageous. And you need to get over that.”

As moderator Connie Brod sat by helplessly, Filner challenged: “Hatred of America? . . . Are you accusing me?”

“Yes!” Wilson shouted. For good measure, over the next minute Wilson accused Filner of harboring “hatred of America” four more times, of being “hateful” three times and of being “viscerally anti-American” once. Filner responded, “This is not worth replying to,” and Brod finally regained control of the discussion by taking viewer phone calls.

{IP Comment: Wilson is clearly a member of the establishment, as evidenced by his efforts to attack Filner on his factual statements}

jmdrake
09-10-2009, 09:47 AM
Did he make some sort of claim that he had proof?

No.

Please refer to the below legitimate quote

The thread title is misleading. Had he said "Wilson 'You Lie' heckle probably was prearranged" that would have been different. Let's take the case with Chris and the AR-15 rifle. (That's still one of my favorite stories). Say if someone had a hunch that he had prearranged what he was going to do with the cops? The accurate title would be "AR-15 stunt was likely pre-arranged". Once we found out that he HAD done this the correct title is "AR-15 stunt was pre-arragned".

InterestedParticipant
09-10-2009, 07:56 PM
So more information about the staged event comes to light today as the media reveals its purpose. Congressman Wilson was queued to shout exactly when Obama said that people were lying that the bill would give free care to undocumented immigrants (they're just called immigrants now instead of illegal aliens).

Today, the media is telling us that Wilson ONLY had a problem with this specific issue, namely, that the bill would give free healthcare to mexicans. So, Wilson is now not only being painted as one of the Townhall crowd, he is also being painted as a racist. So anybody that says Obama is lying is a racist... that the result of this.

This is exactly what they were doing with the Townhall events that were posted on Youtube, they were attempting to incite racial hatred so as to divide the public. This is just an extension of that same game.

Hence, the more information that is forthcoming, the more convinced I am that this entire event was planned and staged.

RedStripe
09-10-2009, 08:07 PM
Dude, they don't have that kind of control over things...

1) if they did, we'd already have microchips in us and be living under a dictatorship

2) with the kind of soap opera bullshit in DC it's not even necessary to stage things because crazy dumb stuff happens all of the time - all they have to do is spin it one way or another, depending on what faction of the establishment "they" happen to be in

InterestedParticipant
09-10-2009, 08:18 PM
Dude, they don't have that kind of control over things...

1) if they did, we'd already have microchips in us and be living under a dictatorship

2) with the kind of soap opera bullshit in DC it's not even necessary to stage things because crazy dumb stuff happens all of the time - all they have to do is spin it one way or another, depending on what faction of the establishment "they" happen to be in
Dude, what kinda of control is necessary to get one Congressman to shout out "you lie" at a specified time within the speech, and then to get controlled media to start spinning it in a specified way? This isn't very hard, especially when you own the Congressman and the media outlets.

RedStripe
09-10-2009, 08:41 PM
Dude, what kinda of control is necessary to get one Congressman to shout out "you lie" at a specified time within the speech, and then to get controlled media to start spinning it in a specified way? This isn't very hard, especially when you own the Congressman and the media outlets.

To answer your question, it requires no direct control whatsoever. This is just the way that the machine operates by default - it isn't necessary for some grand conspiratorial engineer to orchestrate these kind of events.

There isn't some singular group that "owns" the politicians and media outlets. The system is much much more complex than that. Why did the media jump on this story? Because it's sensational and good for ratings, unlike real, intelligent news. Why did the congressman do this? Because he's a fucking typical dumbass politician - it's not like congressmen pulling publicity stunts or getting caught in scandals is surprising at all.

eOs
09-10-2009, 08:55 PM
Lol

InterestedParticipant
09-10-2009, 09:01 PM
To answer your question, it requires no direct control whatsoever. This is just the way that the machine operates by default - it isn't necessary for some grand conspiratorial engineer to orchestrate these kind of events.

There isn't some singular group that "owns" the politicians and media outlets. The system is much much more complex than that. Why did the media jump on this story? Because it's sensational and good for ratings, unlike real, intelligent news. Why did the congressman do this? Because he's a fucking typical dumbass politician - it's not like congressmen pulling publicity stunts or getting caught in scandals is surprising at all.
It is a system, not a few bozos in a dark room like Hollywood depicts, and the system included social engineers, sociologists, psychologists, behavioral specials, speech writers media specialists, advance teams, etc..... and it is the job of these people to work with the politicians and the media actors to "guide" society, which includes the manufacture of events.

tron paul
09-10-2009, 10:32 PM
all I know is, Pelosi looked pissed off beyond mention, and I savored that instance.

The way her jaw drops is hysterically funny.

Looks like Red Queen Nancy is about to scream "OFF WITH HIS HEAD!!!"

I don't care if the Kos Kidz Konspiracy is true and it was staged! It was priceless to see Barack, Joe, and Nancy get pwn3d at their own propaganda cheerleader pep rally.