Political Enlightenment Achieved???

[richardfortherepublic]

Could it be possible that the major flaw of the Representative Republic is that there is a central place of meeting?

Washington D.C. (Hurr Durr)

The fact that the Representatives are a far distance from those he/she is representing, it would most certainly diminish the quality of service? (excuse my business talk)

Simply, the distance is too tempting for one to handle..

'What do I care what the people of my state think? They are XXX miles away... Besides, when I walk out these doors, all that will greet me is sunshine and monuments to people of my liking....'


Why should he....?

Couldn't he vote for that on a telephone? A VIDEO PHONE!?!?! (If you need it)

Couldn't he just print out that bill, and read it in his house?

This is the point...

Represent from where you represent.

If you had to make a decision on the part of the people that you represent... you would have to live with the reality that after you made what ever decision you made, you will be IMMEDIATELY accountable for your actions be it GLORIOUS FREEDOM or tyranny.


A god damn street gang can better represent a state then an absent Representative.


Someone needs to help me out as to how we could get this to fit into our society now... or am I just mad insane?

[richardfortherepublic]

Disregard this post.

[wizardwatson]

Disregard this post.

Too late!! Ha!

Here's a story:

I did the research for the Nancy Boyda campaign a few years ago. She worked with us locals for her first election, then for re-election had been convinced by Washingtonian insiders to use big Dem's money and big Dem's research for her re-election. And guess what, she lost. Those are vulturous blood-suckers out there in Washington. Every representative who mingles gets corrupted unless they have the strength of Ron Paul's balls to resist.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions as they say. I have no doubt she started wanting to help Kansan's, but maybe when she got to Washington she saw a different mission.

So although your exposition of your point may be not so well formed, I think you're main point is sound.

[FreeTraveler]

Our representatives should each be held powerless in a set of stocks once a month, and a collection of cream pies, rotten tomatos and paddles supplied for the use of any who care to use them.

Perhaps that would encourage them to do right by their constituents the rest of the month.

[PaulaGem]

Make them stay in the state 80% of the time.

They can fly to DC once every couple of months to vote and meet face to face in committee, but they could only work on bills that have been submitted to them before they get to DC and they have to have at least a week to study it in final form.

Also all bills should be posted in current form at all times on the web. Members of congress could have feedback areas and discussion boards for each bill under consideration.

In the end, they would still need to make the final decision and vote the way they thought best, but they would be fully informed of the opinions and concerns of their constituents and the constituents would know how they voted.

This would result in a lot LESS legislation simply by enforcement of the method. It would be impossible to railroad something through like the Federal reserve act and TARP.

[Bucjason]

I think the problem is less with the representatives living in Washington , and more with the fact that 75% of the constituents don't pay attention to what is going on or understand the constitution . An uninformed electorate is the biggest threat to a republic.

[PaulaGem]

I think the problem is less with the representatives living in Washington , and more with the fact that 75% of the constituents don't pay attention to what is going on or understand the constitution . An uninformed electorate is the biggest threat to a republic.

I disagree, that's why I cited the example of how the Fed Reserve and TARP was put into action.

I think the fact that representatives are passing bills that they haven't read and haven't discussed with their more enlightened constituents (and there are some of those, even if they are a minority) is a bigger problem.

If 100% of the voters have a solid understanding of the Constituition but:

1) their vote doesn't count (the vote IS broken and the machines have taken over)

2) the elected representatives continue to shovel legislation through congress like they're shoveling manure ( which in fact, they are a majority of the time), without reading them and tacking on unrelated legislation like it was a big game.

The above means that the voters are still outside of the loop.

You also have to admit that one of the BIG reasons the electorate is uninformed is because the power base wants it that way.

I was shocked and thrilled when I heard about 1207 but I think it had already been around for a couple of months. When I went out talking to total strangers about it one afternoon, none of them knew it existed. I got the feeling that one of the women I spoke to was VERY active in the Democratic party, knew about R.P.'s reputation as a kook, but knew nothing about 1207 or the dangers posed by not auditing the Federal Reserve.

[Pericles]

Right way of thinking, but I suggest to the group the real problem is the influence of campaign contributions, combined with a voting public that is subject to media manipulation and the scope of federal government intrusion into the lives of its citizens tempting elected officials.

First point is that it takes a good million to even think about a campaign for the House and several million for a Senate run. Money buys representation. The rule for contributions should be that an entity can only contribute to a candidate that the entity is eligible to cast a vote for in the general election. Eliminate the money from non constituents and see what happens - no PACs, no soft money, only individual contributions from people in your district / state.

A republican form of government depends on a citizenry interested in public affairs. Without the media blitz that money buys, candidates have to work on communicating with the voters, and those votes truly interested in learning will find each other. As long as citizens are casting informed votes, the more representative candidate should have an advantage.

Lastly, the overwhelming regulation of daily life provides too much temptation for elected officials. If an individual or business want to be able to get something done, "grease" (money) has to be applied to the campaign of the incumbent, or a member of the official's family is hired, so the official is motivated to ask the appropriate federal agencies to move the regulation along. The amount of rules and regulations become a "shakedown" racket because of the natural tendency of a civil servant to do nothing.

[newbitech]

I'd like the idea of making sure that everything that congress votes is also voted on by the people. Even if it was just an online vote that allowed each household 1 vote per router MAC address.

I am really tired of wondering who is supporting these reps and where they think they get their mandate from.

[LibertyEagle]

Well, from what I read, the Founders never intended for Congress to stay in session most of the year. In fact, it was thought that our reps would be keeping their day jobs, as Congress would not be in session very often. So yes, the whole idea was that they too would have to live with what they did in Congress. Certainly not be opted out or given pensions for the rest of their life.

[PaulaGem]

......
A republican form of government depends on a citizenry interested in public affairs. Without the media blitz that money buys, candidates have to work on communicating with the voters, and those votes truly interested in learning will find each other. As long as citizens are casting informed votes, the more representative candidate should have an advantage.


Not really, not if the party won't even let him get on the ballot.



Lastly, the overwhelming regulation of daily life provides too much temptation for elected officials. If an individual or business want to be able to get something done, "grease" (money) has to be applied to the campaign of the incumbent, or a member of the official's family is hired, so the official is motivated to ask the appropriate federal agencies to move the regulation along. The amount of rules and regulations become a "shakedown" racket because of the natural tendency of a civil servant to do nothing.



I'm sure a web network could be established for citizens to subscribe to that would keep them informed. Communications from lobyists should also have to go through that same web network so the constituency is aware of the influence of the lobyists.

"Campaigns" could be handled through the same network. Town hall meetings and candidate debates that are broadcast and archived and position statements made by the individual. No other campaigning should be necessary.

[Pericles]

Not really, not if the party won't even let him get on the ballot.





I'm sure a web network could be established for citizens to subscribe to that would keep them informed. Communications from lobyists should also have to go through that same web network so the constituency is aware of the influence of the lobyists.

"Campaigns" could be handled through the same network. Town hall meetings and candidate debates that are broadcast and archived and position statements made by the individual. No other campaigning should be necessary.

Actually, that is one point that the citizens in states with initiative can do right now. No automatic ballot access for political parties.

MN is a good example - all parties and candidates have to meet the same requirement for ballot access. It was not having the built in advantage for Rs and Ds that made the election of Ventura possible.

Just so you know where I'm coming from on this - I was on the staff of Perot's 1992 campaign (not only a volunteer, but paid staff)m so I have had the opportunity to see the system in action.

Level the playing field and the conditions necessary for good results will be there.

[richardfortherepublic]

Well, from what I read, the Founders never intended for Congress to stay in session most of the year. In fact, it was thought that our reps would be keeping their day jobs, as Congress would not be in session very often. So yes, the whole idea was that they too would have to live with what they did in Congress. Certainly not be opted out or given pensions for the rest of their life.

This is the very reason why we should reform the current system...

The founders didn't know we would have airplanes or fax machines... so why not reform our government embrace our technological achievements?

A Representative at home would result in a more personal touch... its really just simple business logic. Stream line the whole system...

I don't think I need to explain how this would save billions of dollars...


If you think about this country without a central meeting place, what do you see?

Personally I see states acting as sovereign nations, while citizens make buisness deals with bordering states to maintain a union.

Sure we would have one state mad at another at some points, but really, its better then 51% trying to take away the power of 49%.

[Bucjason]

I disagree, that's why I cited the example of how the Fed Reserve and TARP was put into action.

I think the fact that representatives are passing bills that they haven't read and haven't discussed with their more enlightened constituents (and there are some of those, even if they are a minority) is a bigger problem.

If 100% of the voters have a solid understanding of the Constituition but:

1) their vote doesn't count (the vote IS broken and the machines have taken over)

2) the elected representatives continue to shovel legislation through congress like they're shoveling manure ( which in fact, they are a majority of the time), without reading them and tacking on unrelated legislation like it was a big game.

The above means that the voters are still outside of the loop.

You also have to admit that one of the BIG reasons the electorate is uninformed is because the power base wants it that way.

I was shocked and thrilled when I heard about 1207 but I think it had already been around for a couple of months. When I went out talking to total strangers about it one afternoon, none of them knew it existed. I got the feeling that one of the women I spoke to was VERY active in the Democratic party, knew about R.P.'s reputation as a kook, but knew nothing about 1207 or the dangers posed by not auditing the Federal Reserve.

So you don't think it's a problem that almost all Americans spend thier time watching "Dancing with the Stars" instead of C-Span ?? If we got our heads out of asses , it wouldn't matter WHERE these guys were governing from, because we'd throw the shitty ones OUT.

[richardfortherepublic]

So you don't think it's a problem that almost all Americans spend thier time watching "Dancing with the Stars" instead of C-Span ?? If we got our heads out of asses , it wouldn't matter WHERE these guys were governing from, because we'd throw the shitty ones OUT.

This is why we get more people educated/registered to vote, not every American votes, but almost all of them don't like the government.

Politicians being in the company of each other for a long period of time ultimately leads to boredom... the process will (and has) repeat itself.

[PaulaGem]

So you don't think it's a problem that almost all Americans spend thier time watching "Dancing with the Stars" instead of C-Span ?? If we got our heads out of asses , it wouldn't matter WHERE these guys were governing from, because we'd throw the shitty ones OUT.

I don't even have a TV now. How does C-span work? Is there a clear schedule of when the legislation which one is interested in will be discussed? Can it be accessed a week or at least a few days ahead of time so one can plan to watch? If you can't watch do most citizens know how to capture the video and store it for later viewing?

No, it's really HARD to figure out what your guy in Washington is really doing.

There is no reason why all of this couldn't be on a well organized government site with links to the videos and texts. We pay their salaries and we should be able to find out what is going on just as easily as we can pick up a TV guide and find "Dancing with the Stars".

[richardfortherepublic]

I don't even have a TV now. How does C-span work? Is there a clear schedule of when the legislation which one is interested in will be discussed? Can it be accessed a week or at least a few days ahead of time so one can plan to watch? If you can't watch do most citizens know how to capture the video and store it for later viewing?

No, it's really HARD to figure out what your guy in Washington is really doing.

There is no reason why all of this couldn't be on a well organized government site with links to the videos and texts. We pay their salaries and we should be able to find out what is going on just as easily as we can pick up a TV guide and find "Dancing with the Stars".

Indeed...

Just imagine all of the money that could be saved by not operating those buildings..

We would also make a pretty penny selling all of that office space.

People feel alienated by the current system.. making our government as user friendly as say... wikipedia, the people will be more interested in whats happening.

[Bucjason]

Wrong , these people aren't governing the way they are because they are out of touch with thier constituents. They know damn well what we what. They are governing this way because they are sick with power and controled by lobbyists.

[PaulaGem]

I don't even have a TV now. How does C-span work? Is there a clear schedule of when the legislation which one is interested in will be discussed? Can it be accessed a week or at least a few days ahead of time so one can plan to watch? If you can't watch do most citizens know how to capture the video and store it for later viewing?

No, it's really HARD to figure out what your guy in Washington is really doing.

There is no reason why all of this couldn't be on a well organized government site with links to the videos and texts. We pay their salaries and we should be able to find out what is going on just as easily as we can pick up a TV guide and find "Dancing with the Stars".

The Congressional Research Service (http://www.loc.gov/crsinfo/whatscrs.html)

I just bumped into them while doning some research on the Fourteenth Amemdment.

Maybe Ron Paul should get their budget increased and assign the above task to them. Let's do away with the Washington Infrastructure and go electronic.

[richardfortherepublic]

...They are governing this way because they are sick with power and controled by lobbyists.


..Which is why we need to close down the town that facilitates this.

If there is no Washington D.C., there won't be Washington D.C. sized corruption.

[PaulaGem]

http://pacer.resource.org/images/jitf.png

This site explains the chart:

http://pacer.resource.org/recycling.html

So let's transfer the surplus to develop a government site that tracks legislation, hearings in real time, and archives videotape of hearings.

How about it Ron?