Buchanan: Did Hitler Want War?

[bobbyw24]

http://www.takimag.com/site/article/did_hitler_want_war/

Did Hitler Want War?
Posted by Patrick J. Buchanan on September 01, 2009

On Sept. 1, 1939, 70 years ago, the German Army crossed the Polish frontier. On Sept. 3, Britain declared war.

Six years later, 50 million Christians and Jews had perished. Britain was broken and bankrupt, Germany a smoldering ruin. Europe had served as the site of the most murderous combat known to man, and civilians had suffered worse horrors than the soldiers.

By May 1945, Red Army hordes occupied all the great capitals of Central Europe: Vienna, Prague, Budapest, Berlin. A hundred million Christians were under the heel of the most barbarous tyranny in history: the Bolshevik regime of the greatest terrorist of them all, Joseph Stalin.

What cause could justify such sacrifices?

The German-Polish war had come out of a quarrel over a town the size of Ocean City, Md., in summer. Danzig, 95 percent German, had been severed from Germany at Versailles in violation of Woodrow Wilson’s principle of self-determination. Even British leaders thought Danzig should be returned.

Why did Warsaw not negotiate with Berlin, which was hinting at an offer of compensatory territory in Slovakia? Because the Poles had a war guarantee from Britain that, should Germany attack, Britain and her empire would come to Poland’s rescue.

But why would Britain hand an unsolicited war guarantee to a junta of Polish colonels, giving them the power to drag Britain into a second war with the most powerful nation in Europe?

Was Danzig worth a war? Unlike the 7 million Hong Kongese whom the British surrendered to Beijing, who didn’t want to go, the Danzigers were clamoring to return to Germany.

Comes the response: The war guarantee was not about Danzig, or even about Poland. It was about the moral and strategic imperative “to stop Hitler” after he showed, by tearing up the Munich pact and Czechoslovakia with it, that he was out to conquer the world. And this Nazi beast could not be allowed to do that.

If true, a fair point. Americans, after all, were prepared to use atom bombs to keep the Red Army from the Channel. But where is the evidence that Adolf Hitler, whose victims as of March 1939 were a fraction of Gen. Pinochet’s, or Fidel Castro’s, was out to conquer the world?

After Munich in 1938, Czechoslovakia did indeed crumble and come apart. Yet consider what became of its parts.

The Sudeten Germans were returned to German rule, as they wished. Poland had annexed the tiny disputed region of Teschen, where thousands of Poles lived. Hungary’s ancestral lands in the south of Slovakia had been returned to her. The Slovaks had their full independence guaranteed by Germany. As for the Czechs, they came to Berlin for the same deal as the Slovaks, but Hitler insisted they accept a protectorate.

Now one may despise what was done, but how did this partition of Czechoslovakia manifest a Hitlerian drive for world conquest?

Comes the reply: If Britain had not given the war guarantee and gone to war, after Czechoslovakia would have come Poland’s turn, then Russia’s, then France’s, then Britain’s, then the United States.

We would all be speaking German now.

But if Hitler was out to conquer the world—Britain, Africa, the Middle East, the United States, Canada, South America, India, Asia, Australia—why did he spend three years building that hugely expensive Siegfried Line to protect Germany from France? Why did he start the war with no surface fleet, no troop transports and only 29 oceangoing submarines? How do you conquer the world with a navy that can’t get out of the Baltic Sea?

If Hitler wanted the world, why did he not build strategic bombers, instead of two-engine Dorniers and Heinkels that could not even reach Britain from Germany?

Why did he let the British army go at Dunkirk?

Why did he offer the British peace, twice, after Poland fell, and again after France fell?

Why, when Paris fell, did Hitler not demand the French fleet, as the Allies demanded and got the Kaiser’s fleet? Why did he not demand bases in French-controlled Syria to attack Suez? Why did he beg Benito Mussolini not to attack Greece?

Because Hitler wanted to end the war in 1940, almost two years before the trains began to roll to the camps.

Hitler had never wanted war with Poland, but an alliance with Poland such as he had with Francisco Franco’s Spain, Mussolini’s Italy, Miklos Horthy’s Hungary and Father Jozef Tiso’s Slovakia.

Indeed, why would he want war when, by 1939, he was surrounded by allied, friendly or neutral neighbors, save France. And he had written off Alsace, because reconquering Alsace meant war with France, and that meant war with Britain, whose empire he admired and whom he had always sought as an ally.

As of March 1939, Hitler did not even have a border with Russia. How then could he invade Russia?

Winston Churchill was right when he called it “The Unnecessary War”—the war that may yet prove the mortal blow to our civilization.
Article URL: http://www.takimag.com/site/article/did_hitler_want_war/

[literatim]

Great read.

[nobody's_hero]

I'm a big fan of Buchanan, but sometimes his suppositions are a bit . . . out there.

[Krugerrand]

I'm a big fan of Buchanan, but sometimes his suppositions are a bit . . . out there.

out there ... yes. But, fun to ponder.

[sparebulb]

Don't worry, Buchanan will be gone soon enough. Once we have the hate-speech laws on the books, any questioning of the "official version" of history that is in every government classroom will be criminalized for your protection.

[max]

Hitlers Suicide Note....His final testament was written just before he took his own life. A very interesting read........(Italics comments mine)


http://www.hitler.org/writings/last_testament/

ADOLF HITLER

My political testament.

More than thirty years have passed since 1914 when I made my modest contribution as a volunteer in the First World War, which was forced upon the Reich. (That's true. Germany did not start WW1 either)

In these three decades love and loyalty to my people have guided all my thoughts, actions and my life. They gave me the strength to make the most difficult decisions ever to confront mortal man. In these three decades I have spent my strength and my health.

It is untrue that I or anyone else in Germany wanted war in 1939. It was wanted and provoked solely by international statesmen either of Jewish origin or working for Jewish interests. (Rothschild, Warburg, Baruch, etc) I have made too many offers for the limitation and control of armaments, which posterity will not be cowardly enough always to disregard, for responsibility for the outbreak of this war to be placed on me.

Nor have I ever wished that, after the appalling First World War, there would ever be a second against either England or America. Centuries will go by, but from the ruins of our towns and monuments the hatred of those ultimately responsible will always grow anew against the people whom we have to thank for all this: international Jewry and its henchmen. (New World Order Banksters)

Only three days before the outbreak of the German-Polish war I proposed a solution of the German-Polish problem to the British Ambassador in Berlin - international control as in the case of the Saar. This offer, too, cannot be lied away. (Hitler's generous compromise offer with Poland was shot down behind the scenes by FDR) It was only rejected because the ruling clique in England wanted war, partly for commercial reasons and partly because it was influenced by the propaganda put out by international Jewry.

I have left no one in doubt that if the people of Europe are once more treated as mere blocks of shares in the hands of these international money and finance conspirators, then the sole responsibility for the massacre must be borne by the true culprits: the Jews. Nor have I left anyone in doubt that this time millions of European children of Aryan descent will starve to death, millions of men will die in battle, and hundreds of thousands of women and children will be burned or bombed to death in our cities without the true culprits being held to account, albeit more humanely.

After six years of war which, despite all setbacks, will one day go down in history as the most glorious and heroic manifestation of the struggle for existence of a nation, I cannot abandon the city which is the capital of this Reich. Since our forces are too meager to withstand the enemy's attack and since our resistance is being debased by creatures who are as blind as they are lacking in character, I wish to share my fate with that which millions of others have also taken upon themselves by remaining in this city. Further, I shall not fall into the hands of the enemy who requires a new spectacle, presented by the Jews, for the diversion of the hysterical masses. (Nuremburg circus trials)

I have therefore decided to stay in Berlin and there to choose death voluntarily when I determine that the position of the Fuhrer and the Chancellery itself can no longer be maintained. I die with a joyful heart in the knowledge of the immeasurable deeds and achievements of our peasants and workers and of a contribution unique in the history of our youth which bears my name.

That I am deeply grateful to them all is as self-evident as is my wish that they do not abandon the struggle but that, no matter where, they continue to fight the enemies of the Fatherland, faithful to the ideals of the great Clausewitz. Through the sacrifices of our soldiers and my own fellowship with them unto death, a seed has been sown in German history that will one day grow to usher in the glorious rebirth of the National Socialist movement in a truly united nation.

Many of our bravest men and women have sworn to bind their lives to mine to the end. I have begged, and finally ordered, them not to do so but to play their part in the further struggle of the nation. I ask the leaders of the Army, the Navy and the Air Force to strengthen the National Socialist spirit of resistance of our soldiers by all possible means, with special emphasis on the fact that I myself, as the founder and creator of this movement, prefer death to cowardly resignation or even to capitulation.

May it become a point of honor of future German army officers, as it is already in our Navy, that the surrender of a district or town is out of the question and that, above everything else, the commanders must set a shining example of faithful devotion to duty unto death.

Before my death, I expel former Reichs-Marshal Hermann Goring from the party and withdraw from him all the rights that were conferred upon him by the decree of 29 June, 1941 and by my Reichstag statement of 1 September, 1939. In his place I appoint Admiral Donitz as President of the Reich and Supreme Commander of the Armed Forces.

Before my death, I expel the former Reichsfuhrer of the S.S. and the Minister of the Interior Heinrich Himmler from the party and from all his state officers. In his place I appoint Gauleiter Karl Hanke as Reichsfuhrer of the S.S. and Head of the German Police, and Gauleiter Paul Giesler as Minister of the Interior.

Apart altogether from their disloyalty to me, Goring and Himmler have brought irreparable shame on the whole nation by secretly negotiating with my enemy without my knowledge and against my will, and also by attempting illegally to seize control of the State.

In order to provide the German people with a government of honorable men who will fulfill the task of continuing the war will all the means at their disposal, I, as Fuhrer of the nation, appoint the following members of the new cabinet:

President of the Reich: Donitz
Chancellor of the Reich: Dr Goebbels
Party Minister: Bormann
Foreign Minister: Seyss-Inquart
Minister of the Interior: Gauleiter Giesler
Minister of War: Donitz
Supreme Commander of the Army: Schorner
Supreme Commander of the Navy: Donitz
Supreme Commander of the Air Force: Greim
Reichsfuhrer of the S.S. and Head of the German Police: Gauleiter Hanke
Trade: Funk
Agriculture: Backe
Justice: Thierack
Culture: Dr Scheel
Propaganda: Dr Naumann
Finance: Schwerin-Crossigk
Labor: Dr Hupfauer
Munitions: Saur
Leader of the German Labor Front and Minister without Portfolio: Dr Ley.

Although a number of these men, including Martin Bormann, Dr Goebbels and others together with their wives have joined me of their own free will, not wishing to leave the capital under any circumstances and prepared to die with me, I implore them to grant my request that they place the welfare of the nation above their own feelings. By their work and loyal companionship they will remain as close to me after my death as I hope my spirit will continue to dwell among them and accompany them always. Let them be severe but never unjust and let them never, above all, allow fear to preside over their actions, placing the honor of the nation above everything that exists on earth. May they, finally, always remember that our task, the consolidation of a National Socialist state, represents the work of centuries to come, so that every individual must subordinate his own interest to the common good. I ask of all Germans, of all National Socialists, men and women and all soldiers of the Wehrmacht, that they remain faithful and obedient unto death to the new government and its President.

Above all, I enjoin the government and the people to uphold the race laws to the limit and to resist mercilessly the poisoner of all nations, international Jewry.

Berlin, 29 April, 1945, 4 a.m.


Adolf Hitler

Witnesses:


Dr Joseph Goebbels Wilhelm Burgdorf
Martin Bormann Hans Krebs

[Maestro232]

I found Buchanan's book on the subject thoroughly convincing. You will find the suppositions of this article backed by extensive quotes from the players and historical facts. Well worth the read.

[Mahkato]

Interesting. I wish I had time to learn more about this!

[acptulsa]

Yes, Hitler wanted war. Yes, Wall Street wanted war. Yes, everyone wanted war but most the people who had to fight it and all of the people who couldn't get the hell out of the way of it. The Big One, as far as the powerful were concerned, was completely mutual.

[Andrew Ryan]

Very interesting.

[BlackTerrel]

Hitlers Suicide Note....His final testament was written just before he took his own life. A very interesting read........(Italics comments mine)


http://www.hitler.org/writings/last_testament/

ADOLF HITLER

My political testament.

More than thirty years have passed since 1914 when I made my modest contribution as a volunteer in the First World War, which was forced upon the Reich. (That's true. Germany did not start WW1 either)

In these three decades love and loyalty to my people have guided all my thoughts, actions and my life. They gave me the strength to make the most difficult decisions ever to confront mortal man. In these three decades I have spent my strength and my health.

It is untrue that I or anyone else in Germany wanted war in 1939. It was wanted and provoked solely by international statesmen either of Jewish origin or working for Jewish interests. (Rothschild, Warburg, Baruch, etc) I have made too many offers for the limitation and control of armaments, which posterity will not be cowardly enough always to disregard, for responsibility for the outbreak of this war to be placed on me.

Max - your love affair with Hitler knows no bounds. Hitler good. Jews bad. We get it.

[emazur]

The topic of "who wanted war" got a brief mention on Russia Today today (this guy puts the majority of the blame on Germany and Russia but there wasn't time for explanations, so you might google his name if you're interested)
YouTube - "Many guilty WWII started" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mWOLVS5oFA&feature=channel_page)

[sratiug]

Max - your love affair with Hitler knows no bounds. Hitler good. Jews bad. We get it.

Do you love fighting wars for Zionist New World Order elites? Still no opinion on the Balfour Declaration? Can Max help it if the Rothschilds are Jewish?

[acptulsa]

This is interesting stuff. I'm not saying Buchanan's wrong, but I will say he's too smart to bring crap like this up. He has worked hard to associate himself with us since the primary campaign, and now he seems to be trying pretty hard to discredit us. I don't like it.

[Flash]

Hitler didn't want war with the British or USSR that's for sure. He did want to conquer the lands around him which he considered to be Germanic.

[acptulsa]

Hitler didn't want war with the British or USSR that's for sure. He did want to conquer the lands around him which he considered to be Germanic.

Very obviously. And he very obviously bit off more than he could chew. Not that hard to figure.

[Flash]

Very obviously. And he very obviously bit off more than he could chew. Not that hard to figure.

Yeah, I sometimes wonder what would've happened if America never got involved. It would be pretty nuts having Hitler conquering the USSR and becoming a gigantic superpower.

[BlackTerrel]

Do you love fighting wars for Zionist New World Order elites?

I love this shit. They're getting me a big screen TV tomorrow.


Still no opinion on the Balfour Declaration? Can Max help it if the Rothschilds are Jewish?

Max is quoting Hitler to blame the war on the Jews. Not exactly a shocker that Hitler blames the Jews, or that you and Max agree with him. Hitler and Ron Paul - great combo.

[LibertyEagle]

Max is quoting Hitler to blame the war on the Jews. Not exactly a shocker that Hitler blames the Jews, or that you and Max agree with him. Hitler and Ron Paul - great combo.

It's Pat Buchanan's article; not Ron Paul's.

[paulim]

This is interesting stuff. I'm not saying Buchanan's wrong, but I will say he's too smart to bring crap like this up. He has worked hard to associate himself with us since the primary campaign, and now he seems to be trying pretty hard to discredit us. I don't like it.

That has been Buchanans opinion all the time, so what are you fantazising about 'bringing this up'. I read his book on the topic too, of course it did not contain too much new facts for me, but for someone like you it might serve a purpose.

Truth does not discredit anyone but liars. Of course as Mencken said, the mob always kills the few who tell the truth.

[Galileo Galilei]

For the best analysis of what happened immediately prior to September 1, 1939, please see:

FDR, the other side of the coin: How we were tricked into World War II
by Hamilton Fish
http://www.amazon.com/FDR-other-side-coin-tricked/dp/0911038647

The auther, Mr. Fish, was a former all-American football player from Harvard who was a member of Congress from 1920 to 1945. He came from a prominent political family going back to the Revolution and he lived to be 102 years old (died in 1991).

Hamilton Fish
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamilton_Fish_III

In August of 1939, Fish was on a diplomatic tour and stopped to visit with Joachim von Ribbentrop just before attending a Peace conference in Oslo.

I have read Fish's book.

In it, Fish explains that the key international issue of the time was whether Poland would allow a corridor between Danzig and the rest of Germany, or what's called a "Polish corridor".

Danzig, as Buchanan has mentioned, was a free German city cut off from the rest of the German mainland.

According to Fish's analysis, Poland could have averted destruction by allowing the very reasonable Polish corridor. But they did not because Roosevelt (secret) and Great Britian (not secret) had given them assurances that they would protect Poland if war broke out.

The big problem was that neither the US or Great Britain could protect Poland from a quick invasion. Roosevelt, of course, wanted the invasion as he wanted the US to get involved in a world war.

The Polish leadership sold out their own people as well, and then most of the Polish leadership were exectuted by Stalin later.

In hindsight, war was going to happen. But events would have gone in a different direction had a Polish corridor been granted and a lack of duplicity by the Western powers. Poland would have ended up in much better shape had they granted the corridor.

Fish says that war between Germany (Fascism) and Russia (Communism) would have ensued with the England, France, and the US out of it.

[tonesforjonesbones]

VERY interesting reads...tones

[literatim]

Yeah, I sometimes wonder what would've happened if America never got involved. It would be pretty nuts having Hitler conquering the USSR and becoming a gigantic superpower.

You're assuming Hitler would have wanted to keep those lands. Odds are he would have known that permanent occupation can only lead to the fall of the greater whole, so he would leave on certain conditions much as America and Britain did to Germany.

[sratiug]

I love this shit. They're getting me a big screen TV tomorrow.



Max is quoting Hitler to blame the war on the Jews. Not exactly a shocker that Hitler blames the Jews, or that you and Max agree with him. Hitler and Ron Paul - great combo.

Are you saying the Zionist New World Order shitheads are all Jews? Cause I didn't. So you are actually agreeing with Hitler, not me.

[heavenlyboy34]

Interesting, thnx.

[acptulsa]

That has been Buchanans opinion all the time, so what are you fantazising about 'bringing this up'. I read his book on the topic too, of course it did not contain too much new facts for me, but for someone like you it might serve a purpose.

Sweet. Sorry to disappoint you, but I already knew there were two sides to the story as well. I don't see a purpose served in trying to shift all the 'winner writes the histories' blame from the losers to the winners. There's plenty to go around.


Truth does not discredit anyone but liars. Of course as Mencken said, the mob always kills the few who tell the truth.

He was plaugarizing Oscar Wilde, too. Of course, Wilde introduced a different twist--if you tell them the truth, make them laugh. Otherwise they'll kill you. Wise advice. Might do to lighten up.


Hitler and Ron Paul - great combo.

Why--because opposites attract?

[max]

Max - your love affair with Hitler knows no bounds. Hitler good. Jews bad. We get it.

I'm simply presenting the other side of the story.....Hitler "Ended the Fed" in Germany and issued honest, interest-free currency....a sovereign currency that quickly became the soundest in the world...... THAT was why he had to be destroyed.

Spare me that "anti-semite" crap. If that were the case I would not have dropped a C-Note on Peter Schiff's campaign.

[BlackTerrel]

I'm simply presenting the other side of the story.....Hitler "Ended the Fed" in Germany and issued honest, interest-free currency....a sovereign currency that quickly became the soundest in the world...... THAT was why he had to be destroyed.

Seriously? This is what this forum has become? People are praising Hitler? It would be funny if it weren't disappointing, this kind of "support" is the reason Ron Paul never gained mainstream traction. Through no fault of his own really.


Spare me that "anti-semite" crap. If that were the case I would not have dropped a C-Note on Peter Schiff's campaign.

Too bad he's not wearing one of those yellow stars your boy was making them put on. Another one of Hitler's genius plans.

[paulim]

Seriously? This is what this forum has become? People are praising Hitler? It would be funny if it weren't disappointing, this kind of "support" is the reason Ron Paul never gained mainstream traction. Through no fault of his own really.
Does it not bother you, that you have not a single argument? You can dedicate a whole thread to your personal feelings and leave other threads alone.


Sweet. Sorry to disappoint you, but I already knew there were two sides to the story as well. I don't see a purpose served in trying to shift all the 'winner writes the histories' blame from the losers to the winners. There's plenty to go around.
No. You have a black/white worldview. Because of that you assume others have too. No one switched from one extreme to another. All discussion was based on facts, which you can attack if you have the persistence and knowledge and desire.


He was plaugarizing Oscar Wilde, too. Of course, Wilde introduced a different twist--if you tell them the truth, make them laugh. Otherwise they'll kill you. Wise advice. Might do to lighten up.
The good thoughts are for all who want them. As you said Mencken put it slightly different and therefore he didn't plagiarize. But I appreciate the hint to Wilde.



Why--because opposites attract?
There it is again. Good and evil. Grow beyond that. There are plenty of issues, on some your statement is correct, on others not. Max mentioned one, the fight against a global world order is another one. You have to start dealing with issues, rather than half-feelings. That will further the liberty cause, otherwise it doesn't need much to convert an unhappy man into a tool. Someone has only to trigger the evil button.

[max]

Seriously? This is what this forum has become? People are praising Hitler? It would be funny if it weren't disappointing, this kind of "support" is the reason Ron Paul never gained mainstream traction. Through no fault of his own really.

Too bad he's not wearing one of those yellow stars your boy was making them put on. Another one of Hitler's genius plans.

Assuming Hitler is the evil monster that our school books taught he was....the fact remains that his dismantling of Germany's FED ushered in an interest free, non-inflationary economic boom....and the Central Bankers didnt like that.

Why cant you deal with that fact?

By the way Black Terrell, did you know that Jesse Owens, until his dying day, said that he was NOT snubbed by Hitler. But he was snubbed by FDR who never even acknowledged Owen's accomplishment.

Hitler waived to Owens and then had his picture taken with him. Owens described the moment as one of his warmest memories in his life....and he "defended Hitler" against the media distortions regarding the 1936 Olympics.

[acptulsa]

There it is again. Good and evil. Grow beyond that. There are plenty of issues, on some your statement is correct, on others not. Max mentioned one, the fight against a global world order is another one. You have to start dealing with issues, rather than half-feelings. That will further the liberty cause, otherwise it doesn't need much to convert an unhappy man into a tool. Someone has only to trigger the evil button.

Uh huh. And what of the people--the semi-interested, just awakening, semi-ignorant person who is sympathetic to our views but hasn't figured out where his or her friends are yet? Is having someone who seems to share his or her views say, well, Beck you can't trust implicitly but Buchanan you can, and then have them receive this mule-kick to their complacency, going to help us or harm us? Libertarianism does not mean never having to say you're sorry for being implolitic.

[max]

Seriously? This is what this forum has become? People are praising Hitler? It would be funny if it weren't disappointing, this kind of "support" is the reason Ron Paul never gained mainstream traction. Through no fault of his own really.



Too bad he's not wearing one of those yellow stars your boy was making them put on. Another one of Hitler's genius plans.

The yellow stars were issued only after German cities were being burned to the ground by allied terror bombings. German jews were interned as an internal security measure because so many of them were partial to the allies.

Not saying I agree with it...but you have to realize that when you bomb MILLIONS of people to death, irational decisions often follow. As war conditions deterirated, typhus spread throughout the camps....killing many inmates.

[paulim]

Uh huh. And what of the people--the semi-interested, just awakening, semi-ignorant person who is sympathetic to our views but hasn't figured out where his or her friends are yet? Is having someone who seems to share his or her views say, well, Beck you can't trust implicitly but Buchanan you can, and then have them receive this mule-kick to their complacency, going to help us or harm us? Libertarianism does not mean never having to say you're sorry for being implolitic.
I understand. A part of the audience you described could be upset - of course spielberg and hollywood dedicated their lifes to tell them what their reflexes should be.
Two things: First, Buchanan is a renowned character and therefore a significant part of the upset-ones will do their own research. People who do are suddenly not longer part of your described audience. The topic is therefore not completly useless. I agree you shouldn't bring it up until someone else does because there are more relevant topics, but if Buchanan does, fine. Second, although this may be true for the six-packs you described, you yourself are not one of them. My point was, if something like this happens, an educated man might say to his friends: 'You know, Buchanan is a renowned and honest man, he deals with facts on every other subject like healthcare too, maybe we should read his book.'
I think, he who remains calm, wins in the end. The people on this forum should be the calmest of the calmest and show their friends that facts alone are sufficient to bring the power back to the people.
There might be a short term trade-off (as we said, you have to be carefull that the mob does not get you) but in the long term everyone who panders to PC will lose trust.

[acptulsa]

In the long term you may be right. And I'm not advocating lying, even about the long, long ago. But I prefer to pick my battles. And this isn't one I'll be interested in putting on the front burner--perhaps ever.

If nothing else, I would prefer to show respect for those who fought and died with valor--and good faith. Yes, those who refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Perhaps this Iranian situation would lead me to believe that this lesson is useful some day. But not today.

And I still say there's plenty of blame to go around. Hitler does deserve his share.

[jclay2]

Why am I not surprised that I was never given any article like this in the 10 times from pre-k to 12th grade that WWII was studied. Great Read. I really enjoy most of the articles that Buchanan puts out.

[paulim]

Agreed.

[Imperial]

Assuming Hitler is the evil monster that our school books taught he was....the fact remains that his dismantling of Germany's FED ushered in an interest free, non-inflationary economic boom....and the Central Bankers didnt like that.

Why cant you deal with that fact?
.


Go on Mises and read about the Nazis. They confiscated the wealth of the Jews and practiced Keynesian economics with their projects. They had de facto rule of the private sector by coercing private actors, leading to insane corporatism. Or read The Road to Serfdom.

[BlackTerrel]

The yellow stars were issued only after German cities were being burned to the ground by allied terror bombings. German jews were interned as an internal security measure because so many of them were partial to the allies.

Not saying I agree with it...but you have to realize that when you bomb MILLIONS of people to death, irational decisions often follow. As war conditions deterirated, typhus spread throughout the camps....killing many inmates.

You're rationalizing putting yellow stars on jews. But it's cool because you gave $100 to Peter Schiff :D

I'm not going to debate someone who defends Hitler. It is what it is.

[literatim]

You're rationalizing putting yellow stars on jews. But it's cool because you gave $100 to Peter Schiff :D

I'm not going to debate someone who defends Hitler. It is what it is.

Defending historical accuracy isn't defending Hitler.

[acptulsa]

Defending historical accuracy isn't defending Hitler.

But giving one side of the story isn't defending historical accuracy, even if it isn't the side heard most often. Just because propaganda is the opposite of the usual propaganda doesn't mean it isn't propaganda.

[Epic]

Buchanan is getting some blowback on this from PC police.

I have no idea if his revisionist history is right or not, but certainly it's okay to argue it.

[acptulsa]

I have no idea if his revisionist history is right or not, but certainly it's okay to argue it.

Most certainly. But is it wise? Or is it just a way to reinforce the false conclusion that all of us are racists?

[literatim]

But giving one side of the story isn't defending historical accuracy, even if it isn't the side heard most often. Just because propaganda is the opposite of the usual propaganda doesn't mean it isn't propaganda.

Historical facts aren't propaganda.

[acptulsa]

Historical facts aren't propaganda.

Half of them certainly can be, depending upon which half. If all the facts presented support one conclusion and all the facts that cast doubt on that conclusion are ignored, that's propaganda.

[literatim]

Half of them certainly can be, depending upon which half. If all the facts presented support one conclusion and all the facts that cast doubt on that conclusion are ignored, that's propaganda.

Facts are facts. Propaganda is what is passed off as fact, but really isn't.

[acptulsa]

Facts are facts. Propaganda is what is passed off as fact, but really isn't.

No? What's the difference between lies passed off as truth and half the story passed off as the whole story?

[paulim]

No? What's the difference between lies passed off as truth and half the story passed off as the whole story?

Once again. I saw no propaganda in this thread. If you dislike facts despite not refuted, you have to deal with it alone. Refute a fact or leave it. But telling everyone that its unwise to have a decent discussion because you feel your version of history threatened is poor.

[acptulsa]

Once again. I saw no propaganda in this thread. If you dislike facts despite not refuted, you have to deal with it alone. Refute a fact or leave it. But telling everyone that its unwise to have a decent discussion because you feel your version of history threatened is poor.

My version of history? Threatened?

History is history, and half the tale is half the tale.

[FrankRep]

MSNBC removes Buchanan column defending Hitler (http://jta.org/news/article/2009/09/03/1007639/njdc-urges-msnbc-to-remove-pat-buchanans-column-defending-hitler%CA)


Jewish Telegraphic Agency
September 3, 2009


MSNBC took down the Pat Buchanan column defending Hitler's actions hours after a Jewish group urged its removal.

The National Jewish Democratic Council had released a statement Thursday imploring MSNBC to remove the article from its Web site.

Buchanan, a conservative pundit, had alleged that Hitler did not want war and that the Allies' actions were unnecessary.

"MSNBC took the responsible action" in removing the column, NJDC President David Harris said in a statement.

"No worthy news organization should employ and promote a commentator who engages in such vile fiction," he said. "This sort of historical revisionism is deplorable."

Buchanan has been accused in the past of making racially insensitive and anti-Semitic comments.


SOURCE:
http://jta.org/news/article/2009/09/03/1007639/njdc-urges-msnbc-to-remove-pat-buchanans-column-defending-hitler%CA

[Pod]

Hitler didn't want war with the British or USSR that's for sure. He did want to conquer the lands around him which he considered to be Germanic.

Trouble was he was very liberal in what constituted Germanic land. He certainly wanted Poland extinguished as a country and as a culture.

[Pod]

You're assuming Hitler would have wanted to keep those lands. Odds are he would have known that permanent occupation can only lead to the fall of the greater whole, so he would leave on certain conditions much as America and Britain did to Germany.

Wrong. Had he won Hitler would have had no qualms before pysicialy exterminating the Poles, Belarussians and Ukrainians in order to be able to keep their lands. That was the whole point of the war, the Lebensraum theory and the Generalplan Ost.

[Pod]

MSNBC removes Buchanan column defending Hitler (http://jta.org/news/article/2009/09/03/1007639/njdc-urges-msnbc-to-remove-pat-buchanans-column-defending-hitler%CA)


Jewish Telegraphic Agency
September 3, 2009


MSNBC took down the Pat Buchanan column defending Hitler's actions hours after a Jewish group urged its removal.

The National Jewish Democratic Council had released a statement Thursday imploring MSNBC to remove the article from its Web site.

Buchanan, a conservative pundit, had alleged that Hitler did not want war and that the Allies' actions were unnecessary.

"MSNBC took the responsible action" in removing the column, NJDC President David Harris said in a statement.

"No worthy news organization should employ and promote a commentator who engages in such vile fiction," he said. "This sort of historical revisionism is deplorable."

Buchanan has been accused in the past of making racially insensitive and anti-Semitic comments.


SOURCE:
http://jta.org/news/article/2009/09/03/1007639/njdc-urges-msnbc-to-remove-pat-buchanans-column-defending-hitler%CA

Cowardly and smearful. I don`t agree with Buchanan on the issue 100%. For example I don`t think Soviet Union was equivalent evil to Hitler as far as Eastern Europe is concerned. But he nowhere "defends" Hitler, he only speaks of historical facts as he researched them and as he views them. His book on the issue is very proffessional and his knowledge about this matter is certainly far superior to anyone`s at MSNBC.

Also people should note that Buchanan is neither a Libertarian nor a Ron Paul Republican. He is a supporter of Ron Paul`s but his views differ substantially on numerous issues. For example he is in favor of protectionism in trade and lionises Alexander Hamilton.

[FrankRep]

For example I don`t think Soviet Union was equivalent evil to Hitler as far as Eastern Europe is concerned.[/B]

Stalin only committed genocide against 10 million Ukrainians.
He's not too bad I guess.

:rolleyes:

Stalin's Legacy
Ukraine Parliament Votes to Call 1930s Famine Genocide

Ukraine's parliament has voted to recognize the 1932/1933 forced famine as genocide, in a move that could pave the way for compensation claims by the familes of victims of the man-made disaster that claimed up to 10 million lives.

Ukraine's parliament has voted to recognize the famine in which millions died in 1932-33 as an act of genocide by the Soviet government under Josef Stalin, paving the way for possible compensation claims against Russia.
..

Full Story:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,451350,00.html

[Pod]

Stalin only committed genocide against 10 million Ukrainians.
He's not too bad I guess.

:rolleyes:

Yay. Trying to school me on my history with your punny links. Don`t pressume there are things you know that I don`t just because my worldview does not matches yours.

Come back when you`re ready to have a conversation with out rolling eyes or placing words into my mouth.