PDA

View Full Version : "So even though the war settled nothing, it actually settled everything."




Galileo Galilei
08-29-2009, 12:34 AM
"So even though the war settled nothing, it actually settled everything."

Gordon S. Wood

Is There a “James Madison Problem”?
http://oll.libertyfund.org/?option=com_staticxt&staticfile=show.php%3Ftitle=1727&chapter=81746&layout=html&Itemid=27

But probably the most convincing evidence of Madison’s being an idealistic republican seeking to avoid a strong federal government and the state-building processes characteristic of the modern European monarchies was the way he and the other Republicans prepared for and fought the War of 1812. “Prepared for” is hardly the term to use. The Republicans in the Congress talked about war, but at the same time proposed abolishing the army. They cut back the War Department and defeated efforts to build up the Navy. They abolished the Bank of the United States on the eve of hostilities, and in March 1812 they very reluctantly agreed to raise taxes, which were to go into effect, however, only if an actual war broke out.

Historians often harshly criticize Madison and the Republicans for the inept way they prepared for and conducted the war. But this criticism misses the point of what Madison and the Republicans were most frightened. As Jefferson said in 1806, “Our constitution is a peace establishment—it is not calculated for war.”49 War, the Republicans realized, would lead to a Hamiltonian monarchical-type government—with increased taxes, an overblown bureaucracy, heavy debts, standing armies, and enhanced executive power.

Since war was a threat to republican principles, the Republican Party and administration would have to wage the war that began in 1812 in a manner different from the way monarchies waged war. As Secretary of the Treasury Albert Gallatin pointed out at the outset, the Republicans’ dilemma was to wage a war without promoting “the evils inseparable from it . . . debt, perpetual taxation, military establishments, and other corrupting or anti-republican habits or institutions.”50

Madison remained remarkably sanguine during the disastrous events of the war. Better to allow the country to be invaded and the capital to be burned than to build up state power in a European monarchical manner. Even during the war he continued to call for embargoes as the best means for fighting the war. He knew that a republican leader could not become a Napoleon or even a Hamilton. He knowingly accepted the administrative confusion and inefficiencies and the military failures, calm in the conviction that, in a republic, strong executive leadership could only endanger the principles for which the war was fought.51

So even though the war settled nothing, it actually settled everything. It vindicated the grand revolutionary experiment in limited republican government. As the City of Washington declared in a formal tribute to the president, the sword of war had usually been wielded at the expense of “civil or political liberty.” But this was not the case with President Madison in the war against Britain. Not only had the president restrained the sword “within its proper limits” but he also had directed “an armed force of fifty thousand men aided by an annual disbursement of many millions, without infringing a political, civil, or religious right.” As one admirer noted, Madison had withstood both a powerful foreign enemy and widespread domestic opposition “without one trial for treason, or even one prosecution for libel.”52

Historians living in a world dominated by theories of preemptive war, a vast federal bureaucracy, a sprawling Pentagon, an enormous CIA, huge public debts, taxes beyond any the Founders could have imagined, and well over a million men and women under arms may not appreciate Madison’s achievement, but contemporaries did. “Notwithstand[ing] a thousand Faults and blunders,” John Adams told Jefferson in 1817, Madison’s administration had “acquired more glory, and established more Union than all his three Predecessors, Washington, Adams, Jefferson, put together.”53

We historians have gotten so used to praising Madison the author of the Tenth Federalist and denigrating Madison the president that we assume they must be two different Madisons. But there is no “Madison Problem” except the one that we have concocted.

Maybe we ought to spend less time investigating Madison the author of the Tenth Federalist and more time investigating Madison the president. His conception of war and the world, whether we agree with it or not, might give us a better perspective on the confusing times in which we live.

Imperial
08-29-2009, 12:45 AM
The Republicans didn't "abolish' the BUS. Jefferson let it expire. Madison brought it back after the War of 1812 made a demand for easy money.

I like the good precedent of the War of 1812, don't get me wrong. But to go to war and say it was worth it because it had a positive side-effect isn't good enough.

All the lives lost aren't worth a precedent. The Native American societies destroyed weren't worth it. An economic crisis wasn't worth it. The ends don't justify the means when the means are far more destructive.

Galileo Galilei
08-29-2009, 01:21 AM
The Republicans didn't "abolish' the BUS. Jefferson let it expire. Madison brought it back after the War of 1812 made a demand for easy money.

I like the good precedent of the War of 1812, don't get me wrong. But to go to war and say it was worth it because it had a positive side-effect isn't good enough.

All the lives lost aren't worth a precedent. The Native American societies destroyed weren't worth it. An economic crisis wasn't worth it. The ends don't justify the means when the means are far more destructive.

Wrong, the bank was abolished in 1811 under Madison, not Jefferson.

You also totally missed the point, the bank was not in operation during the war. Almost all of the most serious abuses of power throughout human history occur during war. Madison even vetoed a bank bill in January of 1815. The only reason the bank came back again [temporary] was to pay off war debts. Once they were paid off, the bank was abolished again, permanently by the Founding Fathers, because it has never been needed again.

Regarding the lives lost, the British started the hostilities in 1807 when they launched a naval attack. They then proceeded, over the next 5 years, to kidnap 8000 American sailors, 6000 whom were American citizens, and the others in the process of becoming citizens. The British also seized 400 American vessels. The French also seized 500 American vessels as well.

Have you ever thought about what would happen today if other nations launched a naval attack against us, then kidnapped 8000 Americans and 900 vessels? Ever thought about that? We attacked Spain in 1898 because ONE boat got sunk, for example.

James Madison, and Jefferson before him, tried to delay our counter-attack for as long as possible, out of respect for American lives. But negotiations went nowhere as the British weren't interested.

The War of 1812 led to gigantic economic growth. The Great Lakes were opened for free shipping. So was the Atlantic ocean. So was the Mississippi river. And so was the West Indies.

You outta take a look at the economic growth we experienced in the generation after 1815.

Icymudpuppy
08-29-2009, 08:28 AM
The republican party didn't exist in 1812. It was created in 1854. There were the Whigs, and the Democrats in 1812. I'm sure you must be talking about the Whigs.

I've always found it rather humorous that the Republicans call themselves the GOP, when the Democrats' party is older.

coyote_sprit
08-29-2009, 08:36 AM
The republican party didn't exist in 1812. It was created in 1854. There were the Whigs, and the Democrats in 1812. I'm sure you must be talking about the Whigs.

I've always found it rather humorous that the Republicans call themselves the GOP, when the Democrats' party is older.

Think he was referring to the Democratic-Republican party or better yet just anyone in favor or a republic seeing as he did use the lower case form, Republican doesn't always have to mean the party.

Galileo Galilei
08-29-2009, 01:23 PM
The republican party didn't exist in 1812. It was created in 1854. There were the Whigs, and the Democrats in 1812. I'm sure you must be talking about the Whigs.

I've always found it rather humorous that the Republicans call themselves the GOP, when the Democrats' party is older.

Gordon Wood wrote the article, and I posted some excerpts.

Wood has a new book out in October:

Empire of Liberty
A History of the Early Republic, 1789-1815 Gordon S. Wood Add to Cart ISBN13: 9780195039146
ISBN10: 0195039149
Hardback, 800 pages Sep 2009, Not Yet Published
http://www.oup.com/us/catalog/general/subject/HistoryAmerican/EarlyNational/?view=usa&ci=9780195039146

Description

The Oxford History of the United States is by far the most respected multi-volume history of our nation. The series includes three Pulitzer Prize winners, two New York Times bestsellers, and winners of the Bancroft and Parkman Prizes. Now, in the newest volume in the series, one of America's most esteemed historians, Gordon S. Wood, offers a brilliant account of the early American Republic, ranging from 1789 and the beginning of the national government to the end of the War of 1812.

As Wood reveals, the period was marked by tumultuous change in all aspects of American life--in politics, society, economy, and culture. The men who founded the new government had high hopes for the future, but few of their hopes and dreams worked out quite as they expected. They hated political parties but parties nonetheless emerged. Some wanted the United States to become a great fiscal-military state like those of Britain and France; others wanted the country to remain a rural agricultural state very different from the European states. Instead, by 1815 the United States became something neither group anticipated. Many leaders expected American culture to flourish and surpass that of Europe; instead it became popularized and vulgarized. The leaders also hope to see the end of slavery; instead, despite the release of many slaves and the end of slavery in the North, slavery was stronger in 1815 than it had been in 1789. Many wanted to avoid entanglements with Europe, but instead the country became involved in Europe's wars and ended up waging another war with the former mother country.

Still, with a new generation emerging by 1815, most Americans were confident and optimistic about the future of their country.

Integrating all aspects of life, from politics and law to the economy and culture, Empire of Liberty offers a marvelous account of this pivotal era when America took its first unsteady steps as a new and rapidly expanding nation.