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JosephTheLibertarian
09-28-2007, 12:47 AM
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2007/09/ron_paul_country.html

a hit piece

Corydoras
09-28-2007, 05:13 AM
Ummmmm... I disagree, I don't think it's a hit piece. Yes, critical, but articulate and thought out and a heck of a lot more neutral than I think qualifies for a hit piece.

For example, the writer is actually pointing out that telling like it is (highway deaths versus 9/11 deaths) is part of what is creating trouble getting through to the MSM. That is, he's admitting that the MSM really don't want to give publicity to true assertions.

And I'm grateful he made a point of saying that "people next door" types are backing him.

I think this piece qualifies as rational disagreement.

Stealth4
09-28-2007, 02:47 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/realclearpolitics/20070928/cm_rcp/ron_paul_country

What can we learn from this piece tho? I personally wish the 9/11 guy hadnt been handing out info at the speech. Thats BS.

constituent
09-28-2007, 02:50 PM
quit it stealth. we know what you're doing.

DrNoZone
09-28-2007, 02:51 PM
Although I wouldn't classify this one as a pure hit-piece, it surely isn't all that balanced and fair. It comes off as very biased and dismissive, not real journalistic.

pcosmar
09-28-2007, 02:56 PM
Why are you concerned with the neo-cons. Clear as Mud Media is a neo-con mouthpiece.
They are becoming irrelevant.
The neo-cons can either join us or be run over. their time is done.

libertythor
09-28-2007, 02:58 PM
Nice Linux penguin. There was a movement in 2000 to have a penguin holding a torch adopted as the Libertarian Party´s symbol! That was a good idea! Penguin, Elephant, Donkey

hard@work
09-28-2007, 03:01 PM
Why are you concerned with the neo-cons. Clear as Mud Media is a neo-con mouthpiece.
They are becoming irrelevant.
The neo-cons can either join us or be run over. their time is done.

Bingo!!


That's the message.


STAY ON IT!!

trispear
09-28-2007, 03:02 PM
If you have a yahoo account, make sure to rate this crappy story.

Stealth4
09-28-2007, 03:04 PM
I rated it a zero, and 'constituent' I have no idea what your implying.

Its interesting the lengths people will go to attack Dr. Paul. I feel sorry for the person that wrote this.

constituent
09-28-2007, 03:07 PM
it's amazing the lengths people will go to continue stirring this
cesspool

LibertyEagle
09-28-2007, 03:07 PM
I rated it. If people can, rate it and ignore it. At least, that's what I'm going to do.

FreedomLover
09-28-2007, 03:07 PM
Why are you concerned with the neo-cons. Clear as Mud Media is a neo-con mouthpiece.
They are becoming irrelevant.
The neo-cons can either join us or be run over. their time is done.

Even if the MSM is in the process of becoming "irrelevant" it doesn't mean that they are any less irrelevant today. We help ourselves a lot by exersizing a little common sense with sticking to ron paul's stances and not our own selfish side-issues (trutherism), the other issues that open ourselves up to criticism can be defended, but this cannot.

Of course, being an op-ed, by a right-leaning pundit, it's bound to become an attack piece when ron paul is mentioned in any capacity.

It's been happening for a while, and I agree we should just roll with the punches, but we can also learn some lessons from these articles that can help the campaign a little.

constituent
09-28-2007, 03:08 PM
I rated it. If people can, rate it and ignore it. At least, that's what I'm going to do.

exactly. and OP, you think you're slick w/ the little off the cuff, don't.

Cindy
09-28-2007, 03:09 PM
The neo-cons can either join us or be run over. Their time is done.

LOVE IT!

LibertyEagle
09-28-2007, 03:09 PM
Stealth,

It's just that we don't need to have another 9-11 go around on here. We've had plenty and no one's mind is changed. What it does do however, is upset us all and get our eyes off of what we are trying to do.

The reality is that the likelihood is extremely small that the people who attended that rally and handed out the stuff are on this forum, so us hammering each other, back and forth, doesn't accomplish anything.

Johnnybags
09-28-2007, 03:12 PM
LOVE IT!

Same old, what about Israel(like their nukes are not enough deterrence) and no mention of the Reunification of the Koreas which the Neocons will not let happen even though the people want it. Once the military industrial complex gets in gear the only thing that stops them is an economic crisis or uprising from the citizenry.

Nefertiti
09-28-2007, 03:14 PM
I met the guy in the tshirt on the way out because the woman I had been sitting next to talked to him on our way out. Apparently he does belong to some truther group because she was talking to them about their meetings. She was a truther herself but definitely was not a one-issue supporter. While the spin of the article is negative, it is a pretty accurate reflection of what it was like to be there.

SeanEdwards
09-28-2007, 03:16 PM
it's amazing the lengths people will go to continue stirring this
cesspool

Fanatics hate to have anyone notice their fanaticism.

Ron Paul Fan
09-28-2007, 03:16 PM
If this guy really thought Dr. Paul had no chance of winning then why was he even there covering the event? Has he gone to a Tancredo rally or a Duncan Hunter rally? No, because nobody goes to their rallies. The big government neo-cons don't like Ron Paul and the writer probably didn't like that there were so many people at an event for a candidate with no chance. So he decided to pick out a couple people handing out 9/11 stuff and trash Dr. Paul for his truly conservative stances. These types of pieces by Giuliani and Romney supporters are going to become more rampant as Dr. Paul becomes bigger and more popular so get used to it. All we can do is rate it low and continue to spread our message of liberty and freedom which seems to be working pretty effectively so far.

Stealth4
09-28-2007, 03:17 PM
What I was hoping is that people at the Chicago event asked the 9/11 handout guy to please stop.

If I was at an event, and saw one or two people furthering an agenda that isnt Ron Paul's, and specifically one that hurts his campaign appearance (9/11 truthers), I would strongly ask the person to stop for the good of the campaign.

ghemminger
09-28-2007, 03:18 PM
No - I think they truly see us as a fringe movement - They are BLIND

ghemminger
09-28-2007, 03:18 PM
What I was hoping is that people at the Chicago event asked the 9/11 handout guy to please stop.

If I was at an event, and saw one or two people furthering an agenda that isnt Ron Paul's, and specifically one that hurts his campaign appearance (9/11 truthers), I would strongly ask the person to stop for the good of the campaign.

Ron Paul need to call him out and ask him to leave - that would send a message!

Elwar
09-28-2007, 03:18 PM
According to another article, that same speech Ron Paul sounded enthusiastic and had a way of speaking that was akin to Hitler. This article says he spoke in a monotone voice with a few raises of his pitch.

Which is it? Is he an energetic speaker like Hitler or a boring speaker?

Same speech, two hit pieces, two different takes.

Either way...first they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they attack you...then you win.

We're passing the "laugh at you" phase.

ghemminger
09-28-2007, 03:19 PM
According to another article, that same speech Ron Paul sounded enthusiastic and had a way of speaking that was akin to Hitler. This article says he spoke in a monotone voice with a few raises of his pitch.

Which is it? Is he an energetic speaker like Hitler or a boring speaker?

Same speech, two hit pieces, two different takes.

Either way...first they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they attack you...then you win.

We're passing the "laugh at you" phase.

MSM haven't even begun full attack mode - hope you guys have a strong stomach

constituent
09-28-2007, 03:21 PM
we do. it's the agents in here that really crawl up your skin.

deliberately attempting to divide and conquer, maintaining a unified
front... yea, seen it here before, seeing it here right now, gonna
see it here some more.

pcosmar
09-28-2007, 03:24 PM
I for one am not a "Truther" but I don't hate them.
I have debated with a brother often enough, but I don't trust the government to tell the truth about anything.
My hope is in getting Ron Paul elected. He wants transparency in government. I have the hope that some of the mysteries will be solved.
We are all Americans (I hope and pray) and as such are diverse and varied in our views and ideas. We have a common goal, yet as individuals we may not agree. There is no need to bash those we disagree with.
Can't we all just get along.
We may all have some surprises when the truth is known.

mconder
09-28-2007, 03:36 PM
What is this with the reference to the mom who brought children to the rally? What's the angle here. I didn't like the tone.

fightfortruth
09-28-2007, 03:55 PM
I think that the article was horrible. I have no issue with the guy in the 9/11 t-shirt passing out those dollar bills. He has the right to his views and to stand for something he believes in (that is what we are all fighting for, the first amendment and the rights of the individual.) One person doesn't represent the whole group anyway(they never do.) I would be a naive person to think that a person in a 9/11 truth shirt represented the entire group of peoples' views at this event. What I have issue with is this man who wrote the article passing judgement on all Ron Paul supporters. I wish that there was a link to his email so everyone could write him an angry letter about misrepresenting the Ron Paul supporters. His views and agendas are transparant in reading this article(neo-lib). If he wants to lable us crazy for supporting Ron Paul and wanting to restore the constitution, then call me crazy. That not going ot change my beliefs or my dedication. I hear it all the time at my meetup events. Some people will come up to me and call me crazy for supporting him. Some people have told me that I should not waiste my vote on someone who isn't going ot win and I should only vote for the popular candidate. The problem is that most of the people who come up to me don't even know who Ron Paul is or even know that our constitution os being shredded apart. It just makes me want to fight even more. For the small amount of people who come up to me with negative comments, I mostly get people who are generally interested in learning who he is or are curious to see what we are about. All we can do is keep doing what we are doing and counter these claims by supporting Dr. Paul and showing them that they are wrong.

ghemminger
09-28-2007, 04:07 PM
I think that the article was horrible. I have no issue with the guy in the 9/11 t-shirt passing out those dollar bills. He has the right to his views and to stand for something he believes in (that is what we are all fighting for, the first amendment and the rights of the individual.) One person doesn't represent the whole group anyway(they never do.) I would be a naive person to think that a person in a 9/11 truth shirt represented the entire group of peoples' views at this event. What I have issue with is this man who wrote the article passing judgement on all Ron Paul supporters. I wish that there was a link to his email so everyone could write him an angry letter about misrepresenting the Ron Paul supporters. His views and agendas are transparant in reading this article(neo-lib). If he wants to lable us crazy for supporting Ron Paul and wanting to restore the constitution, then call me crazy. That not going ot change my beliefs or my dedication. I hear it all the time at my meetup events. Some people will come up to me and call me crazy for supporting him. Some people have told me that I should not waiste my vote on someone who isn't going ot win and I should only vote for the popular candidate. The problem is that most of the people who come up to me don't even know who Ron Paul is or even know that our constitution os being shredded apart. It just makes me want to fight even more. For the small amount of people who come up to me with negative comments, I mostly get people who are generally interested in learning who he is or are curious to see what we are about. All we can do is keep doing what we are doing and counter these claims by supporting Dr. Paul and showing them that they are wrong.

uhhh...DITTO! After we get Ron Paul elected - then we all can become truthers!

erowe1
09-28-2007, 04:17 PM
It may be a crappy story, but Stealth is right, the main lesson for us isn't that we need to go put bad ratings on crappy internet stories. It's that we need to shut the 9/11 truthers up at all costs. They need to know in no uncertain terms that the 90% of us who disagree don't appreciate when they bring that into the campaign and that it will never fail to do more harm than good.

constituent
09-28-2007, 04:18 PM
^ uhhhh....

pcosmar
09-28-2007, 05:09 PM
It may be a crappy story, but Stealth is right, the main lesson for us isn't that we need to go put bad ratings on crappy internet stories. It's that we need to shut the 9/11 truthers up at all costs. They need to know in no uncertain terms that the 90% of us who disagree don't appreciate when they bring that into the campaign and that it will never fail to do more harm than good.

Excuse me but, Just SHUT UP!!

Revolution9
09-28-2007, 05:25 PM
It may be a crappy story, but Stealth is right, the main lesson for us isn't that we need to go put bad ratings on crappy internet stories. It's that we need to shut the 9/11 truthers up at all costs. They need to know in no uncertain terms that the 90% of us who disagree don't appreciate when they bring that into the campaign and that it will never fail to do more harm than good.

Yer a moron.

Thanks for your output. My Atlanta meetup disagrees 80% with your stats.

:cool:
Randy

Syren123
09-28-2007, 05:29 PM
Good grief. What a turd. If he's so appalled by the crowd, why not GTFO and spare us his discomfort.

SouthernGuy15
09-28-2007, 05:33 PM
I am a 9/11 truther. I'm proud to say it!

And you will NEVER... EVER.... be able to shut me up!

9/11 was an inside job. That is a fact. The evidence is overwhelming! For example...

Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth!

http://www.ae911truth.org/

However, I usually don't speak about 9/11 when sharing information about Ron Paul with others. Obviously, Ron Paul has made the decision to distance his campaign from the subject of the inside job that was 9/11. I respect that decision (even though I disagree with it) so I try to focus on taxes, the constitution, the bill of rights, the war in Iraq, etc.

Quite frankly, I would not have even mentioned 9/11 in this thread except for the fact that no one will ever shut me up about the most horrible CRIME of the 21st century.

erowe1
09-28-2007, 05:47 PM
Yer a moron.

Thanks for your output. My Atlanta meetup disagrees 80% with your stats.

:cool:
Randy

All that means is your meetup group isn't doing a very good job expanding it's membership outside your puny truther circle. Among the Ron Paul supporters right now there are too many already for the truther movement to make up more than 10%. And as we continue to grow that percent will shrink to 1%. That guy in Chicago, the ones on the ferry, and others like them are hurting Ron Paul's chances of getting elected. The best thing that could come out of this forum would be for the rest of us to make them understand that they aren't appreciated. They should go become Hillary supporters and help her lose instead of Paul.

erowe1
09-28-2007, 05:53 PM
Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth!

http://www.ae911truth.org/



Oh now that's rich, architects and engineers for truth, as if architects are in the same category as engineers in being qualified to criticize the accepted account of what happened at WTC. And they really milk that for all it's worth. They have a petition signed by a bunch of architects and qualified engineers, but the petition actually goes no further than to say they want a new investigation. When you look at the schedule of speaking engagements to see which of those signatories actually come out and say that the planes didn't cause the collapse, there's not a single engineer in sight, every speech is by an architect.

constituent
09-28-2007, 05:55 PM
goodnight erowe

Geronimo
09-28-2007, 05:58 PM
Stealth,

It's just that we don't need to have another 9-11 go around on here. We've had plenty and no one's mind is changed. What it does do however, is upset us all and get our eyes off of what we are trying to do.


Exactly. I don't know if anyone's noticed or not but the media has been having a field day with the 'divide and conquer our own country' campaign lately. Media outlets have been building us up to this moment for years. We can't let it divide us on these forums as well.

It sickens me to quote from the Sean Hannity show, but let these forums be "the last beacon of truth in a troubled time."

Operation Mockingbird
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird)

erowe1
09-28-2007, 06:00 PM
Good grief. What a turd. If he's so appalled by the crowd, why not GTFO and spare us his discomfort.

Syren, those of us who believe that the planes caused the WTC collapse ARE the crowd. Get used to it. If you think otherwise, then any time you're in public and identifying yourself as a Paul supporter keep it to yourself for the sake of winning the election.

pcosmar
09-28-2007, 06:02 PM
erowe1
OK, I am not a "truther" but I do respect the truth.
Try this. Do a search, there are all documented and provable.
The Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment
MK-Ultra
Project ARTICHOKE
Project BLUEBIRD
Operation AJAX
Operation Paperclip
Operation Northwoods

NO, I don't know who killed Kennedy. But I don't buy the "offical" story. The 'Magic bullet " theory doesn't fly.
The "truthers" are not so far out there when you look at the facts.
It is just not proven or documented. YET.

erowe1
09-28-2007, 06:03 PM
Exactly. I don't know if anyone's noticed or not but the media has been having a field day with the 'divide and conquer our own country' campaign lately. Media outlets have been building us up to this moment for years. We can't let it divide us on these forums as well.

It sickens me to quote from the Sean Hannity show, but let these forums be "the last beacon of truth in a troubled time."

Operation Mockingbird
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird)

There is no issue of dividing and conquering. If you divide the 10% of Paul's supporters who are truthers from the 90%, who aren't, then that 90% would do just fine from here on out. But if the truthers cause normal people to turn away from supporting him, he loses.

V-rod
09-28-2007, 06:13 PM
Whoever believes 9/11 was an inside job obviously has lot of faith in big government proficiency to get things done.
I'll say it, You 9/11 conspiracy theorists are nutbags. Nothing wrong in questioning the government who had elements within them do terrible and sometimes evil things throughout history, but to continue with the insanity that many people within the government flawlessly executed the entire thing are not thinking logically. Would some corrupt agency secretly organize to crash a plane in the pentagon. Possible, yes. Likely, no.
That is not the same as the 9/11 conspiracy insanity out there which is the same as the war mongers and globalist neo-convervatives do when saying the Jihadists are all going to kill us because of our freedoms. There is a difference between 9/11 truth seekers and "OMG Gov't orchestrated 9/11" garbage. Get over it.

pcosmar
09-28-2007, 06:27 PM
Whoever believes 9/11 was an inside job obviously has lot of faith in big government proficiency to get things done.
Exactly right.
I doubt that it was planed. But I have no trouble believing that it was allowed.
The enemy was known. INS, FBI CIA
The target was known. One attempt had been made.

With all that is known and documented about our government and policies my mistrust of these people is deep. What has been done in our name in he past truly disgusts me.
I would put little past them.

Edit to add.
We really need to stop getting worked up at every neo-con HIT PIECE.
Real Clear as Mud Media is a NEO-CON mouthpiece.
They are irrelevant.

Eli
09-28-2007, 06:56 PM
ron paul at attracts peiople from all backgrounds, political stances, and social statuses. The Associated Press hates RP. That "reporter" would of scoured the huge crowd 'till he found one single person he can pick out and pin up with ron paul as if they were buddies.

Don't worry about it people. The only people these types of articles sway are the ones that are already against us. They think they are brutally wounding us when in fact they just draw more people towards the movement.

We're going to be seeing a ton of these types of articles come up over the next couple months. Instead of causing political fights and threating to kick people out, lets just accept anyone who joins the movement for who they are and what they believe and ignore whatever the pundits feel like saying about it.

paulitics
09-28-2007, 07:12 PM
ron paul at attracts peiople from all backgrounds, political stances, and social statuses. The Associated Press hates RP. That "reporter" would of scoured the huge crowd 'till he found one single person he can pick out and pin up with ron paul as if they were buddies.

Don't worry about it people. The only people these types of articles sway are the ones that are already against us. They think they are brutally wounding us when in fact they just draw more people towards the movement.

We're going to be seeing a ton of these types of articles come up over the next couple months. Instead of causing political fights and threating to kick people out, lets just accept anyone who joins the movement for who they are and what they believe and ignore whatever the pundits feel like saying about it.

well said. I agree.

RP4ME
09-28-2007, 07:29 PM
well I for one liked one part of teh article when he talks about abolishing teh IRS and FEd and then people go into convulsions !! Thats probabaly pretty pretty pretty accurate!

paulpwns
09-28-2007, 08:20 PM
Enjoy..

http://news.yahoo.com/s/realclearpolitics/20070928/cm_rcp/ron_paul_country

Corydoras
09-28-2007, 09:13 PM
Hmm. I find it difficult to be the lone dissenting voice, but I think it was a good article. I think the criticisms were rational (unlike the Hitler piece), if incorrect, and phrased in a moderate tone. In fact, compared to utter crap like the Hitler piece, it took RP seriously and was therefore a positive. I think this qualifies as passably good publicity. If I didn't know about RP, I would be intrigued by it and would want to investigate more.

paulitics
09-28-2007, 09:26 PM
I don't find these comments rational or moderate. This guy is a moron. But, like I said before, for the type of voter ROn Paul attracts, this type of journalism could backfire. It comes off way too biased. The guy tries to portray Ron Paul and his fans like a crazed kooky cult. Even if he left 911 out, it would have the same effect, by the multitutude of other attacks and angles he takes.


"But I wonder: This, for a small, aging congressman from Texas who has no chance, in this cycle or the next, of ever being president? As I look around I notice the crowd doesn't care. "

"Eventually the crowd quiets down and the ordinary, frail-looking Dr. Paul begins"

"But Paul, who barely registers in the polls, is pleasantly free of speaking carefully. His proposals come full-throated and without qualifications"

"Some might say that this is libertarianism or "true Republicanism," but the fact is that it leads to a chaotic campaign, whose only guiding light is some mythical American past where an unsullied constitutional order reigned. Not to mention that Paul brings out the kind of person who spends their days pining for the gold standard and that's not the person you want your daughter bringing home."

Corydoras
09-28-2007, 09:35 PM
Maybe I've read too many snarky and slightly humorous articles in political print magazines over the past couple of decades, but I don't think this was a hit piece at all. It was squarely in the journalistic genre of covering campaigns with a strong grassroots element.

Reasonable people can agree to disagree, and I think we do. But if I were the writer and besieged by outraged letters about this piece, I would THEN become genuinely turned against the campaign.

Broadlighter
09-29-2007, 01:22 AM
It's these ideas like individual liberty, small, limited government are just so silly and anachronistic. Gee, when are those Ron Paulers going to get a clue.

Hint - I'm being sarcastic. This Neo-Con reporter lives in another universe.

buffalokid777
09-29-2007, 01:59 AM
What I was hoping is that people at the Chicago event asked the 9/11 handout guy to please stop.

If I was at an event, and saw one or two people furthering an agenda that isnt Ron Paul's, and specifically one that hurts his campaign appearance (9/11 truthers), I would strongly ask the person to stop for the good of the campaign.

That story is CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have seen Numerous videos from that ferry ride, I HAVE YET TO SEE ONE WITH ANY PERSON SAYING 9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB.

FOX news was there.....IF SOMEONE SAID THAT DON'T YOU THINK IT WOULD BE ALL OVER FOX???

Unless you can provide me a link to a video of 1 9/11 truther spreading stuff on that ferry.

STOP SPREADING PROPAGANDA AND LIES.

I am sick of the neocon trolls spreading fabrications and lies.

I am calling you out to show proof.

Just put up a link if you have proof.....

OTHERWISE IT IT IS UNCONFIRMED HEARSAY.

Electrostatic
09-29-2007, 02:15 AM
Look, Here's what it comes down to.. Over thousands of people at the rally and he lies and says it's "hundreds".

One guy in an "Investigate 9/11" shirt, less than 1/10 of 1% of the crowd... And he spends the 3 largest paragraphs in the article on him.

Has the words "Gold Standard" in hard quotes when RP never said that.. That is enough to get fired from any respectable news agency.

Electrostatic
09-29-2007, 02:19 AM
'What do we replace the "unconstitutional" Federal Reserve with? "The gold standard!"'

That line right there is pure libel.. To put a phrase in quotes which wasn't uttered in order to denigrate someone is downright illegal. (Even for Candidates)

buffalokid777
09-29-2007, 02:21 AM
Look, Here's what it comes down to.. Over thousands of people at the rally and he lies and says it's "hundreds".

One guy in an "Investigate 9/11" shirt, less than 1/10 of 1% of the crowd... And he spends the 3 largest paragraphs in the article on him.

Has the words "Gold Standard" in hard quotes when RP never said that.. That is enough to get fired from any respectable news agency.

I AGREE!

FIRE THE MESSENGER!

buffalokid777
09-29-2007, 02:23 AM
'What do we replace the "unconstitutional" Federal Reserve with? "The gold standard!"'

That line right there is pure libel.. To put a phrase in quotes which wasn't uttered in order to denigrate someone is downright illegal. (Even for Candidates)

I think some libel suits need to be brought against a few of these neocon operatives....

That would teach these lying scum a lesson.

buffalokid777
09-29-2007, 02:53 AM
THIS THREAD IS A DUPLICATE NEOCON OPERATIVE HIT PIECE THREAD!

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=20781

PLEASE COMBINE THREADS OR REMOVE!

MicroBalrog
09-29-2007, 03:05 AM
This isn't much of a hit piece really.

buffalokid777
09-29-2007, 03:21 AM
This isn't much of a hit piece really.

when it is not backed up by proof....it's a hit piece.....

wheres the video of what they claim?

how about the audio?

it's a hit piece because it is LIES...

FOX news was on board, if it was true...we'd have video....

THAT STORY IS COMPLETE LIES.....

THEY CANT PROVE IT BECCAUSE IT IS ALL NEOCON LIES.....

steph3n
09-29-2007, 03:24 AM
Edit: nevermind different article :)
been reading too many hit pieces recently, another was about Rudy and ron paul supporters that was totally false.

heres the video of it too:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=19750&highlight=island

You will notice it doesn't match up


when it is not backed up by proof....it's a hit piece.....

wheres the video of what they claim?

how about the audio?

it's a hit piece because it is LIES...

FOX news was on board, if it was true...we'd have video....

THAT STORY IS COMPLETE LIES.....

THEY CANT PROVE IT BECCAUSE IT IS ALL NEOCON LIES.....

buffalokid777
09-29-2007, 03:31 AM
Edit: nevermind different article :)
been reading too many hit pieces recently, another was about Rudy and ron paul supporters that was totally false.

heres the video of it too:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=19750&highlight=island

You will notice it doesn't match up

I have seen that video + 20 more taken from cell phones and cameras.

I HAVE NOT SEEN ! REFERENCE ON ANY UNEDITED VIDEO THAT REFERENCES 9/11 YOU NEOCON LYING LIARS.....


STOP LYING YOU SCUM SHOW PROOF....

WE WILL CALL YOU NEOCON LYING SCUM OUT EVERYTIME FOR YOUR LIES YOU ARE UNABLE TO PROVE...

IF YOU WANT TO SPEW YER CRAP....

BETTER HAVE PROOF BECAUSE WE WILL CALL YOU OUT EVERYTIME ON YOUR LIES YOU SCUM!

And if people need to see what lying scum you are....

PROVE ME WRONG!

PUT UP THE VIDEO OF THE TRUTHERS DOING WHAT YOU CLAIM IN YOUR ARTICLE OF LIES....

NOT GONNA HAPPEN....

BECAUSE IT NEVER DID HAPPEN AND YOU NEOCONS ARE LYING SCUM THAT WOULDNT KNOW THE TRUTH EVEN IF IT SMACKED YOU UPSIDE THE HEAD!

RonPaulalways
09-29-2007, 04:57 AM
Blake Dvorak works for the Washington Times. That alone completely discredits him. The Washington Times is owned by cult religious leader Sun Myung Moon, who believes he is God on earth.

Anyway, a problem is that a lot of people in the media who play a big role in shaping public opinion are ignorant about economics, government, and history. For example:

"Some might say that this is libertarianism or "true Republicanism," but the fact is that it leads to a chaotic campaign, whose only guiding light is some mythical American past where an unsullied constitutional order reigned."

If Dvorak actually knew history, he would see that the American government in the past WAS in many ways better than the government of the present.

For example:

The 19th century:

In the 19th century, the US was leading the world in progress in all fields. Today, other nations are catching up to it judging by any socio-economic metric. The US in the 19th century had a far more federated government where States had more autonomy, as the Constitution intends, and the scope of the federal government was limited as there was no federal income tax to fund it.

The Gold Standard and the 1970's:

Since Nixon took the US off of the gold standard in 1971, median wages have stopped increasing, and have even decreased for some segments of society like the 25-34 demographic. That median wages have not increased since 35 years ago is absolutely outrageous. Household wealth for median wage earners is lower now than it was 27 years ago in 1980, despite massive gains in productivity since then. Debt monetization through fiat currency and the federal reserve system allows government spendng to grow by simply borrowing from the next generation.

The coming economic collapse:

Due to the growth of big government and entitlements, brought about by politicians promising special interests more money and more money from the public treasury every year, the Republic is facing total economic collapse. None of the status-quo candidates will do anything to avert this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGpY2hw7ao8

JosephTheLibertarian
09-29-2007, 05:26 AM
how can they still keep their jobs after this? this is not journalism. I petition to get these people fired

jmarinara
09-29-2007, 06:34 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/realclearpolitics/20070928/cm_rcp/ron_paul_country

What can we learn from this piece tho? I personally wish the 9/11 guy hadnt been handing out info at the speech. Thats BS.


Yeah, that 9/11 guy was obnoxious. He even went as far as to pull out another shirt and hold it up in the cameras line of site in the middle of something Paul was saying.

Very counter-productive.

rpfreedom08
09-29-2007, 06:44 AM
I just switched my home page from yahoo to google for this. Hopefully more will do the same.

I also agree with the guy that said to accept every Ron Paul supporter for who they are and not to fight over threads like these. We need to show potential supporters that we are just as professional as the other candidates and that's how we should portray ourselves. The main thing that reaches out to Ron Paul supporters is his wonderful ability to be on the PEOPLES side. So what are potential supporters going to look at? The people of course! We all need to be on our best behavior (I know it sounds dumb) when associating ourselves with Ron Paul.

Corydoras
09-29-2007, 06:53 AM
Reporters are attracted to the 9/11 people like flies to mashed bananas because the other campaigns don't have 9/11 people. Reporters are always looking for the hook that makes a campaign unique. I wish the 9/11 people would go and spread themselves around other campaigns a little and that some of them would back other candidates so they're not so much of a curiosity.

pcosmar
09-29-2007, 07:20 AM
I just switched my home page from yahoo to google for this. Hopefully more will do the same.
Yahoo just reprinted the article from Real Clear as Mud Media. Just ignore the real clear bias.


Reporters are attracted to the 9/11 people like flies to mashed bananas because the other campaigns don't have 9/11 people. Reporters are always looking for the hook that makes a campaign unique. I wish the 9/11 people would go and spread themselves around other campaigns a little and that some of them would back other candidates so they're not so much of a curiosity.
The 911 people would not be at other candidate events. There is no truth being offered there.
They are attracted to Ron Paul for the same reason many are, Truth, Integrity, and the hope of an honest government.

The HIT pieces will get worse, as Dr. Paul gets more popular. There is nothing we can do but ignore it. Grow a thicker skin. It's going to get hot.
Spill a soda on your shirt= we are all slobbering drunks.
Bring your children=child exploitation, we are bad parents.
Shout and wave signs= We are raving lunatics.
etc. etc.etc.
It doesn't matter what, it will be a HIT piece.
Ignore, ignore, ignore.

pcosmar
09-29-2007, 07:37 AM
Real Clear Media= Clear as Mud.

Electrostatic
09-29-2007, 07:59 AM
Ummmmm... I disagree, I don't think it's a hit piece. Yes, critical, but articulate and thought out and a heck of a lot more neutral than I think qualifies for a hit piece.

Umm, sorry, have to disagree..... There was One... Count him One 9/11 truth guy there (LESS THAN 1/10 of 1% of those attending), and he features him in 3 of the largest pargraphs.

He calls Ron "Frail", "Aging", "Orrdinary", "Small", ect...

"The first thing I notice is that as a speaker, Paul is unexceptional."

"He rarely changes cadence, his applause lines are adorned with a simple up tick in volume and delivered clumsily, almost as if Paul suddenly remembers to throw out some red meat."

" a grab-bag of radical policy proposals. "

Of, and it's the same guy who wrote this little gem:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/realclearpolitics/20070926/cm_rcp/ron_paul_supporters_taunt_rudy

And at the end he writes "UPDATE: Yes, there's a YouTube of it:" And then gives no link... PROBABLY BECAUSE ALL OF THE YOUTUBE VIDEOS DIRECTLY REFUTE ALL OF HIS ALLEGATIONS.

You have to realize that if you did not already know who Ron Paul was, and this was your first introduction, you would think of him as a 2 bit loser with a few nutty fringe supporters... And that, my friend, is the exact point of a hit piece.

rpfreedom08
09-29-2007, 10:23 AM
Yahoo just reprinted the article from Real Clear as Mud Media. Just ignore the real clear bias.


The 911 people would not be at other candidate events. There is no truth being offered there.
They are attracted to Ron Paul for the same reason many are, Truth, Integrity, and the hope of an honest government.

The HIT pieces will get worse, as Dr. Paul gets more popular. There is nothing we can do but ignore it. Grow a thicker skin. It's going to get hot.
Spill a soda on your shirt= we are all slobbering drunks.
Bring your children=child exploitation, we are bad parents.
Shout and wave signs= We are raving lunatics.
etc. etc.etc.
It doesn't matter what, it will be a HIT piece.
Ignore, ignore, ignore.


Interesting, so true though and it is just pure evilness! I guess though this is why we need to be on our best behavior. This is like showing the older generation that we are ready to take the office. They have had plenty of chances but have failed and now it's our turn. Only way we will win though is if we look competent enough to do the job.

I think this campaign needs to be run with plenty of love (I know I know sounds dumb). I think that is what brings ron paul supporters so lets keep it positive! Polite and positive I think is what is key to getting more supporters.

TooConservative
09-29-2007, 10:47 AM
It may be a crappy story, but Stealth is right, the main lesson for us isn't that we need to go put bad ratings on crappy internet stories. It's that we need to shut the 9/11 truthers up at all costs. They need to know in no uncertain terms that the 90% of us who disagree don't appreciate when they bring that into the campaign and that it will never fail to do more harm than good.

I don't care much for "shut the 9/11 truthers up" kind of talk. We are the ones who are talking constitutionalism and the First Amendment right to free speech is the bedrock of our other liberties. So the truthers have every right to pursue their own message at their own events.

I've been on some forums very hostile to Ron Paul. The war party types constantly use the tiniest reference to any truther at a campaign event to smear Ron Paul. Like that one pair of truthers who berated Fred Thompson right after he announced and then left in a car with a Ron Paul bumper sticker. It was joyfully reported by the media and all the Paul detractors repeat it with glee. They also make a lot of noise about truthers who go around promoting their 9/11 theories while wearing Ron Paul t-shirts or carrying Ron Paul literature or signs. We're seeing a repeat now with that incident with Giuliani on the Mackinac ferry. In the video and the accounts written by those present, I saw nothing about throwing him overboard or truthers chanting that he should "return the gold" from the WTC basement. In fact, I believe this account is entirely a fabrication by the Giuliani campaign, just a Rudy dirty campaign trick. Yet, because some truthers have been promoting their 9/11 agenda at Ron Paul events, the Giuliani campaign has been able to successfully spread this lie through the media about truthers trying to throw him overboard and painting all Ron Paul supporters as some kind of truthers.

They do the guilt-by-association thing with the skinhead/Nazi types too. They focus on some statements of support from that Stormfront site and bring up some obscure antisemitic newsletter that reprints Ron Paul's noncopyrighted weekly messages for their newsletter and refer to him as a "columnist". Of course, he's not their columnist but the smear is all that is important to them. This newsletter is written by ex-Birchers who were driven out of that organization for being antisemitic. But to those attacking Ron Paul, it doesn't matter. They know that Ron Paul isn't a truther or an antisemite but they know how shallow most people are and by the time he or his supporters have to explain this and answer such accusations, they've already managed to convince people that there's at least some association between the two or that such persons are typical Ron Paul supporters. And that is their entire objective. These kind of attacks are not unlike the FUD campaigns that Microsoft has spun against open-source and Linux for years. And it can be very effective as an attack.

I think that those who really want to elect Ron Paul should focus on his message and how he presents himself and leave their own other political agendas aside entirely. This is Dr. Paul's campaign, not an opportunity for people to leaflet or promote their own causes.

It seems to me that the Meetups and other groups should pound this message home. Turn out to support Ron Paul and him only or just stay home.

I'd point out that the old-time Birchers were largely ruined as a movement because every time they'd gain some ground with the public by warning of the influence of the United Nations or the Left orientation or communist affiliation of media or political figures, a bunch of antisemites would be sneaking in the back door, making them all look like antisemites. They kept purging them from the organization but they kept coming back until they had ruined the Birchers entirely. The Birchers were good anticommunists and had a fair measure of suspicion of the government as well but the presence of the antisemites in their midst discredited them. I think it is an example of why some organizational discipline is necessary if you really want to help Ron Paul win the nomination.

As for the truthers themselves, I think most of us can readily concede that the official investigations were very incomplete and did not thoroughly answer the public's questions about 9/11. And they didn't cut the investigations short because they thought they were spending too much money. They absolutely love to spend money in Washington. So the 9/11 investigations really are not complete. Many credible academics and politicians admit it. The 9/11 Commission admitted it. So there are many questions about 9/11 but raising those questions won't help Ron Paul get the nomination and will probably harm his message.

Ron Paul is controversial enough already, given his message about the Fed and money, his antiwar message, his radically federalist vision for returning power to the states. It's unfair to him and to all his non-truther supporters for the truthers to use Ron Paul's campaign as a mule to carry their baggage.