How to convert someone who isn't interested?

[Matthew Zak]

Any tips?

[dannno]

Well a lot of people aren't interested in politics in general because they know that they won't ever make a real difference themselves. And they are probably right.. however most of the people here including myself feel obligated to do our part to preserve and increase freedom and liberty. Otherwise we are part of the problem. I don't know that telling them they are part of the problem is going to help, though.

Then there are others who aren't interested because they think that their political ideology (usually on the left) is the correct ideology and are not willing to look into non-interventionist, free market principles.

So why aren't they interested?

[Working Poor]

So why aren't they interested?

because they are still asleep for the most part and because they feel powerless to do anything.

[dannno]

Seriously, if they just flat out are not interested in politics and think that it won't ever affect them so it isn't worth their time.. I mean, you can point out the fact that they are working six months out of the year to pay taxes, but if that doesn't interest them then personally I'd be all about government false flag attacks and such (Gulf of Tonkin, Attack on the USS Liberty, 1993 WTC bombing Dan Rather CBS clip, WACO, Ruby Ridge, trading weapons to south american right wing armies in trade for drugs that are sold on our streets (see Mike Rupert), 9/11, FEMA camp, whole nine yards..) I mean.. Our government is fucking attacking us all the time, anybody would want to protect against that.

If they are leftists stuck in their ideology, then you're going to want to try logic. Free markets could not have failed in the last decade because haven't had free markets. Corporations take corporate welfare from the Federal Reserve through artificially cheap loans, then they pay special interest lobbyists to legislate them profits. This is an inevitable cycle that will always continue as long as we retain certain powers in the hands of the Federal Government.. I can go on and on, but the point is that big corporations want government to have more power because they are the ones who control that power, not the people. A small, limited government is the only way to ensure that corporations don't gain a stranglehold over the market. It gives consumers control over the market instead of lobbyists. The first thing we need to do before cutting welfare for those who are dependent on it is to end our overseas empire.. Over 300 bases in over 100 countries, bring them all home, use the money here and repay our debt and give people a tax break.

[hugolp]

Talk about money, how they are being robbed by the banks. That started my interest.

[dannno]

Edit: Ya what he said ^^


You can also show them Money As Debt so they can see for themselves that banking is a scam, get them interested in auditing the fed and such..

[bossman068410]

Make it fun !!!!!

1) People will join any group to feel accepted and needed.
2) People want to be part of a community or Tribe.
3) People will feel empowered when they are actually seeing their efforts help.

If all your doing is standing around complaining why would anyone want that? look at the poster campaign that AJ had on. It was fun and it made news. How about the patriot who open carried at the demonstration that was daring and adventurous. Even if you don't have the gonads to open carry they could be the one carrying the camera.

[LibertyEagle]

Any tips?

Why waste your time with someone like this, when there are so many others who are interested.

[Flash]

Make it fun !!!!!

1) People will join any group to feel accepted and needed.
2) People want to be part of a community or Tribe.
3) People will feel empowered when they are actually seeing their efforts help.



Bingo. People in marketting & cult-leaders have discovered this a long while ago. Apparently people who run Moveon.org did too.

[Conza88]

“Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you” ~ Pericles

“Anyone who says they are not interested in politics is like a drowning man who insists he is not interested in water”

[leglock]

How is the person related to you?

[Objectivist]

Sex sells!

[BuddyRey]

Any tips?

Yes, two major tips!

Read, learn, and internalize Michael Cloud's book Secrets of Libertarian Persuasion and his audio course The Essence of Political Persuasion. I'm not affiliated with Cloud or the Advocates for Self-Government...just a very satisfied customer! I've been using his "intellectual Judo" and "Reverse-Macho Flash" tactics a lot lately in web discussion forums and have noticed a real improvement in my persuasive power and general success rate in being a good representative for libertarianism. If you can only afford one, I sincerely recommend the audio course, but both of them are terrific and there's very little overlap.

http://www.theadvocates.org/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=LS&Product_Code=SLP&Category_Code=

http://www.theadvocates.org/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=LS&Product_Code=EPP&Category_Code=

[Kludge]

Why waste your time with someone like this, when there are so many others who are interested.

+1

So long as a person's respectful, I don't see reason to bother him/her. I don't want someone blabbing at me about Jesus, and, for the most part, people respect that. In return, I won't be blabbing at people about Ron Paul unless they're open to discussion.

Hell, we have people very interested in politics here who believe non-voting to be a kind of baptism. The person you're talking about doesn't vote, right?

[christagious]

Why waste your time with someone like this, when there are so many others who are interested.

Yeah, for the most part I gave up on the ones who don't care or aren't interested.

[nobody's_hero]

Time is the best converter.

Believe me, I hate politics. But, I got to where I done had enough'. Everyone has their own threshold. A few more years of Republicrats and you'll get your converts.

[SelfTaught]

For someone that isn't interested in politics and the economy, holding a discussion or argument is probably futile. The best way for them to discover liberty, libertarianism, austrian/sound economic theory, is just to print or email articles to them and let them read it so they can try to come to the right conclusions of their own.

Some good authors include:

Ron Paul
Walter E Williams (sydicated columnist, once a week)
Thomas Sowell (although he can be a little partisan and a war monger)
Peter Schiff (weekly commentaries, very good most of the time)
Authors on lewrockwell.com
Daily articles at Mises.org

Now, if you are trying to get a liberal democrat to accept the ideas of liberty, you can try to have them read the authors above, but most likely you are wasting your time.

Thomas Sowell likes to point out that all people have a foundation of bedrock beliefs/assumptions. If a person believes that even the smartest person on the planet has less than 1% of the knowledge available in the world, he is more likely to reject the idea of a centrally planned economy/nation. However, if a person believes that smart people (like themselves) are capable of knowing what's best for everyone else, that person is likely to be a collectivist. That's why you can give two people the same set of facts, and they can both come up two completely different conclusions.

[Conza88]

Yes, two major tips!

Read, learn, and internalize Michael Cloud's book Secrets of Libertarian Persuasion and his audio course The Essence of Political Persuasion. I'm not affiliated with Cloud or the Advocates for Self-Government...just a very satisfied customer! I've been using his "intellectual Judo" and "Reverse-Macho Flash" tactics a lot lately in web discussion forums and have noticed a real improvement in my persuasive power and general success rate in being a good representative for libertarianism. If you can only afford one, I sincerely recommend the audio course, but both of them are terrific and there's very little overlap.

http://www.theadvocates.org/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=LS&Product_Code=SLP&Category_Code=

http://www.theadvocates.org/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=LS&Product_Code=EPP&Category_Code=

:eek: free pdf anywhere? free audiobook?

I mean seriously.. if he wants to sell more books, he would...

Any torrents? :(

[Bucjason]

How to convert someone who isn't interested - Water-boarding

[acptulsa]

Damn. They aren't interested so throw a thousand page tome at them.

What? Not a thousand pages? The ones you're recommending are only three hundred pages? Looks the same to someone who isn't interested.

What are they interested in? Are they unhealthy? Tell them about what the vets get from government health care. Are they a hobbyist? See what they used to be able to get but is now considered an 'unsafe toy that might have a trace of lead in it'. Gun owners? They're easy. Fast driver? Rail against the fedgov interference in state traffic laws or the weight penalty of safety devices for the incompetent. Did they like to fly? They probably don't any more. Are they religious? Is their church about to lose tax-free status?

There's something, I guarantee. As invasive, obtrusive and overbearing as the fedgov has gotten today, there's something.

[Matthew Zak]

I'm talking about someone who was raised in a communist country until the age of 14, and came here expecting to find the propaganda she heard about the U.S. from relatives who also fled the communist country -- that the U.S. was the ultimate land of opportunity, and that it's a million times better than where they were. This person has been here now for 11 years, and has a sense of adventure like you wouldn't believe, but is having a hard time digesting, or even listening to anything negative.

[acptulsa]

Interesting.

Get this person an account here! For one thing, this person may be interested to realize that things used to be better here and we're going backwards. For another, this person may be able to make some people here see why we get resistance to messages of impending armageddon.

I wouldn't be surprised if we would do better if we could learn to smell the roses. 'No, the U.S. is not at all a bad place to be. And I'm trying to nip this or that in the bud because I don't want it to turn into a bad place to be.' We could use a little more of that tone, I think.

[pcosmar]

How to convert someone who isn't interested?

When the tanks roll down their street.
When their face is pushed into the dirt.
Then they will be interested.

[angelatc]

Any tips?

"Don't waste your time," would be my advice.

[ctiger2]

My family will all go to their grave defending everything any democrat/liberal does.

[Matthew Zak]

She has no political identity, because she never grew up with the push and pull of politics and propaganda here in America. However, over the past year I've been mentioning some developments, and she'll pause for a second and respond, "That's like communism" -- but that's as far as the conversation goes. If I push any further she is immediately depressed for the rest of the day -- and next time I bring it up (with the most hopeful and positive spin that I can) she still gets angry at me.

[acptulsa]

However, over the past year I've been mentioning some developments, and she'll pause for a second and respond, "That's like communism" -- but that's as far as the conversation goes.

Let her enjoy it while it lasts. I'm not saying don't bring things up, just one at a time. Take it at her speed. I expect eventually she'll decide it's time to defend the newfound wonderfulness, but for the moment let her decompress. Just sort of keep her current on how high that thermometer has gotten, and let her decide when the party's getting dangerously close to being over.

She could well wind up being one of our best friends in the world, but not if you push too much. She has to enjoy her freedom before she'll realize how worth fighting for it is. ;)

Meanwhile, let it be a two-way street. Let her teach you how to smell those roses.

[Feenix566]

My family will all go to their grave defending everything any democrat/liberal does. They think I'm a nutjob.

I plan on not giving them any food or precious metals if/when they need them...

33% of the population will always support the Democrats no matter what happens.
33% of the population will always support the Republicans no matter what happens.
Our job is not to convince any of them that we're right. Our job is to recruit the other 33% of the population to our side.

[Pericles]

“Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you” ~ Pericles

“Anyone who says they are not interested in politics is like a drowning man who insists he is not interested in water”

Indeed - for the typical American, eviction and starvation would be a wake up call, but in this case a reminder that countries did start out being communist, and if steps are not taken to prevent that here, there will be nowhere to serve as an escape.

[dannno]

My family will all go to their grave defending everything any democrat/liberal does. They think I'm a nutjob.

I plan on not giving them any food or precious metals if/when they need them...


"Do you think I WANTED to go against the grain of society and do what is right?? Do you really think I WANTED to buy a bunch of yellow and silver metal for my health?? No, I was doing it because I knew that is what I had to do. I tried to tell you rationally, but you were all so caught up living in your fantasy world that was presented to you on TV that you weren't willing to listen to somebody close to you who saw through the bullshit. You thought you could just stick with the system because it would protect you through thick and thin, and if everything gets screwed up like I said you would have my supplies and my life time of hard work to fall back on? I don't think so."

[tangent4ronpaul]

33% of the population will always support the Democrats no matter what happens.
33% of the population will always support the Republicans no matter what happens.
Our job is not to convince any of them that we're right. Our job is to recruit the other 33% of the population to our side.

+1

[BuddyRey]

:eek: free pdf anywhere? free audiobook?

I mean seriously.. if he wants to sell more books, he would...

Any torrents? :(

Well, I don't know if there is a PDF of his book, but there is a torrent of the audio course!

http://www.mininova.org/tor/784877

Enjoy!

[Conza88]

Well, I don't know if there is a PDF of his book, but there is a torrent of the audio course!

http://www.mininova.org/tor/784877

Enjoy!

:o Thanks!

1 seeder, 1 leech. :)

[InterestedParticipant]

Any tips?
They are a casualty of war, there is no saving them.

[acptulsa]

They are a casualty of war, there is no saving them.

I disagree. He said she knows communism. I say she wonders, 'what are these incredibly lucky people bitching about?! And I do believe that, once she sees it creeping in herself, she will fight alongside the best of us, and maybe lead the charge.

[InterestedParticipant]

I disagree. He said she knows communism. I say she wonders, 'what are these incredibly lucky people bitching about?! And I do believe that, once she sees it creeping in herself, she will fight alongside the best of us, and maybe lead the charge.
Keeping the faith is one of humanities greatest strengths and one that the psychopaths will never understand... it's part of the Ghost in the Machine (as they like to call it). So, whether to invest time on this individual or not has to be an individual decision by the person who must invest that time.

But on the flip side, there are causalities who refuse to be awakened, for the awakening process takes personal will and a commitment to do so. The person going through the process must be willing to make these choices and go through the accompanying struggle.

If I was the person who is deciding whether to invest the time or not, I would not take this decision lightly.

[catdd]

The more you chase someone the faster they run. Stop chasing and maybe they will come to you.
What I do is just plant some seeds and hope they grow.

[acptulsa]

If I was the person who is deciding whether to invest the time or not, I would not take this decision lightly.

I would take it lightly, because so little time is necessary in this case. She understands the evils implicitly, as she has endured them. Therefore, one has only to let her enjoy the benefits of liberty, and gently and occasionally inform her of what they are doing to curtail liberty. If it is possible to win her to the cause, this is all that is needed to do so.

P.S. Or, to put it more poetically, this:


The more you chase someone the faster they run. Stop chasing and maybe they will come to you.
What I do is just plant some seeds and hope they grow.

[SelfTaught]

Presumptions of the Left
By Thomas Sowell


http://www.JewishWorldReview.com | Radically different conclusions about a whole range of issues have been common for centuries. Many have tried to explain these differences by differences in conflicting economic interests. Others, like John Maynard Keynes, have argued that ideas — even intellectually discredited ideas that political leaders still believe in — trump economic interests.


My own view is that differences in bedrock assumptions underlying ideas play a major role in determining how people differ in what policies, principles or ideologies they favor.


If you start from a belief that the most knowledgeable person on earth does not have even one percent of the total knowledge on earth, that shoots down social engineering, economic central planning, judicial activism and innumerable other ambitious notions favored by the political left.


If no one has even one percent of the knowledge currently available, not counting the vast amounts of knowledge yet to be discovered, the imposition from the top of the notions favored by elites convinced of their own superior knowledge and virtue is a formula for disaster.


Sometimes it is economic disaster, which central planning turned out to be in so many countries around the world that even most governments run by socialists and communists began freeing up their markets by the end of the 20th century.


That is when the economies of China and India, for example, began having rapidly increasing growth rates.


But economic disasters, important as they are, have not been the worst consequences of people with less than one percent of the world's knowledge superimposing the ideas prevailing in elite circles on those subject to their power — that is, on the people who together have the other 99 percent of knowledge.


Millions of human beings died of starvation, and of diseases related to severe malnutrition, when the economic ideas of Stalin in the Soviet Union and Mao in China were inflicted on the population living — and dying — under their iron rule.


In both cases, the deaths exceeded the deaths caused by Hitler's genocide, which was also a consequence of ignorant presumptions by those with totalitarian power.


Many on the left may protest that they do not believe in the ideas or the political systems that prevailed under Hitler, Stalin or Mao. No doubt that is true.


Yet what the political left, even in democratic countries, share is the notion that knowledgeable and virtuous people like themselves have both a right and a duty to use the power of government to impose their superior knowledge and virtue on others.


They may not impose their presumptions wholesale, like the totalitarians, but retail in innumerable restrictions, ranging from economic and nanny state regulations to "hate speech" laws.


If no one has even one percent of all the knowledge in a society, then it is crucial that the other 99 percent of knowledge — scattered in tiny and individually unimpressive amounts among the population at large — be allowed the freedom to be used in working out mutual accommodations among the people themselves.


These innumerable mutual interactions are what bring the other 99 percent of knowledge into play — and generate new knowledge.


That is why free markets, judicial restraint, and reliance on decisions and traditions growing out of the experiences of the many — rather than the groupthink of the elite few — are so important.


Elites are all too prone to over-estimate the importance of the fact that they average more knowledge per person than the rest of the population — and under-estimate the fact that their total knowledge is so much less than that of the rest of the population.


They over-estimate what can be known in advance in elite circles and under-estimate what is discovered in the process of mutual accommodations among millions of ordinary people.


Central planning, judicial activism, and the nanny state all presume vastly more knowledge than any elite have ever possessed.


The ignorance of people with Ph.D.s is still ignorance, the prejudices of educated elites are still prejudices, and for those with one percent of a society's knowledge to be dictating to those with the other 99 percent is still an absurdity.

[InterestedParticipant]

I would take it lightly, because so little time is necessary in this case. She understands the evils implicitly, as she has endured them. Therefore, one has only to let her enjoy the benefits of liberty, and gently and occasionally inform her of what they are doing to curtail liberty. If it is possible to win her to the cause, this is all that is needed to do so.

P.S. Or, to put it more poetically, this:
Well, I am interested in what happens here. Can the OP keep us up to date on how this goes please.

[acptulsa]

Well, I am interested in what happens here. Can the OP keep us up to date on how this goes please?

I, too, would appreciate it. I realize it will be some time before there's any real change, but when it comes I hope you'll remember us.

[Matthew Zak]

I would take it lightly, because so little time is necessary in this case. She understands the evils implicitly, as she has endured them. Therefore, one has only to let her enjoy the benefits of liberty, and gently and occasionally inform her of what they are doing to curtail liberty. If it is possible to win her to the cause, this is all that is needed to do so.

P.S. Or, to put it more poetically, this:

That is what I am trying to do. She's very fickle, though. She's very impulsive, and adventurous, and I hate to say it -- impressionable, to those who make her feel like she'd be part of the "winning" team. While she is impressionable, she's also very spirited, which means if it gets in her way of having fun, she'll either destroy it or ignore it. So only those who make it fun will have any impression on her, but when they do, it will be a lasting one.

I asked her if she would go on a mini-road trip with me, because she loves road trips, and I figure that maybe exposing her to the energy of the Ron Paul movement first hand would ignite something within her. I'm going to bring her with me to St. Cloud for that Town Hall where Ron Paul will hopefully be speaking about monetary policy. It's a boring subject to her, but at least she'll get some exposure, and who knows, in the right context maybe she'll see how it all ties together. She won't let me lecture her on it, though.

[acptulsa]

I asked her if she would go on a mini-road trip with me, because she loves road trips, and I figure that maybe exposing her to the energy of the Ron Paul movement first hand would ignite something within her.

Sure, but don't lie or withhold information from her. She knows enemy tactics when she sees them. Tell her up front--some of this will be boring to you, but I want to help keep this nation free, so I'm going to be doing this along the way. But we'll find time to see the sights and meet the non-political people, too. Then keep your word.

You can go to your user profile here, and search your threads to find this when you have something to report. Hope you won't forget us! :)

[InterestedParticipant]

That is what I am trying to do. She's very fickle, though. She's very impulsive, and adventurous, and I hate to say it -- impressionable, to those who make her feel like she'd be part of the "winning" team. While she is impressionable, she's also very spirited, which means if it gets in her way of having fun, she'll either destroy it or ignore it. So only those who make it fun will have any impression on her, but when they do, it will be a lasting one.

I asked her if she would go on a mini-road trip with me, because she loves road trips, and I figure that maybe exposing her to the energy of the Ron Paul movement first hand would ignite something within her. I'm going to bring her with me to St. Cloud for that Town Hall where Ron Paul will hopefully be speaking about monetary policy. It's a boring subject to her, but at least she'll get some exposure, and who knows, in the right context maybe she'll see how it all ties together. She won't let me lecture her on it, though.
She is "Ponerized" These traits have been engineered into society through our culture industry (see Theodor Adorno), and far too many have made the choice to take that bait. She's going to have to see how her choices, when extrapolated across society, lead to the type of system that we have. If she is unwilling to undergo this self-exploration, which she really must be willing to do on her own, then I don't see how you reach her.

I'd start off with either "Snakes in Suits" by Bob Hare or "Political Ponerology" by Lobaczewski. She must understand the choices that she is making.

[Matthew Zak]

Sure, but don't lie or withhold information from her. She knows enemy tactics when she sees them. Tell her up front--some of this will be boring to you, but I want to help keep this nation free, so I'm going to be doing this along the way. But we'll find time to see the sights and meet the non-political people, too. Then keep your word.

You can go to your user profile here, and search your threads to find this when you have something to report. Hope you won't forget us! :)

Oh yes, I already told her why we're going. We'll find some adventures along the way, and we'll make it fun.

I'll be back. :)

[BuddyRey]

:o Thanks!

1 seeder, 1 leech. :)

Would you do me a favor and let me know what you think after listening? If I'm right, you'll be pleasantly surprised. Michael Cloud has some dynamite strategies!

[BuddyRey]

Well, I don't know if there is a PDF of his book, but there is a torrent of the audio course!

http://www.mininova.org/tor/784877

Enjoy!

Bump! It took a while for me to get this all downloaded, but I will seed it for as long as anybody needs me to! ;)