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View Full Version : RP Debate Performance and a proposal




maxmerkel
09-28-2007, 06:39 AM
first things first, i LOVE Ron Paul's honesty and his Positions - i seriously think he would be the greatest President ever.

But, when i watched him yesterday my stomach sometimes turned sick. I of course know what he wants to say, i know he is right. But i think it's VERY difficult for people to understand and like what he says if they have not read a lot of articles he wrote.

His very good points:
Healthcare, DeathPenalty, Iraq

an the very bad ones (as one COULD understand it) :
Black academics with no jobs: tax preemption for waitresses.
Darfur : let them suffer, it's not our buisness.

of course i know what he wanted to say and know he is right, but he could explain this WAY better (yes, even in 60/30 seconds) and his donors/support wold go thrugh the roof.

so, my Question: should the campaign hire some sort of speech/debate trainer ?

i for my part think we should face reality - ALL other candidates have suche a trainer (for sure) - and it would help RP tremendously in the little time that is left.

flame me :o

jj111
09-28-2007, 06:51 AM
Ron may have too much disdain for this. I am sure his campaign staff have asked him about this. This is Ron's campaign. He's running and gets to decide whether he wants help or not....

LibertyEagle
09-28-2007, 06:55 AM
I wholeheartedly agree that he would benefit from at least listening to what one has to say. I don't want anyone to change his message at all. But, I do think he needs to work on getting it out so everyone can understand it. He can do that pretty well when he has a lot of time, but he isn't good at doing it in these debates when all one has time for is sound bytes.

I also think they should hire an image consultant.

Now, whether he will do that is probably doubtful. I sure wish he would though.

Stealth4
09-28-2007, 06:56 AM
2nd....I was cringing also on the domestic issue, because I knew what he was trying to say, but it wasnt prepped for a 2 minute or 30 second response....and it came off somewhat as babbling.

But he should get time practicing and refining these responses...with all this money coming in and more attention at future debates he owes it to the campaign to refine his responses to domestic issues. He comes across now as harsh or uncaring or not addressing the question, when we all know this is 100% not true.

Please Ron work on your short responses to domestic issues!!

JMann
09-28-2007, 07:46 AM
Paul performed poorly last night. Reminded me of Reagan in the first Mondale debate. He look tired, hair was messed up, he seemed confused and would try and give his stump speech in every answer. He should know that the media is only going to show one sound bite if anything.

I'm sure he will rebound but he didn't do a good job last night. Campaign manager needs to make sure he has a light day before a major debate. AND PLEASE BUY THE MAN A TAILORED SUIT!

dantheman
09-28-2007, 08:12 AM
He needs to be careful when he talks about foreign affairs like Darfur because it makes him sound like an isolationist. This could really hurt the campaign if people don't quite get what he means. Sometimes for an answer he gives so much information and goes in 50 different directions I know it's hard for some people to keep up with. We've all heard what Ron Paul has said throughout this campaign but people sitting in the audience or at home that might not know about him are going to be hurt by this. They're the ones he's trying to reach out to and there can't be this "communication" barrier, so to speak. That doesn't mean RP uses too many big words that people can't understand, he just has to learn how to speak to Americans on their level. He's perfectly capable of doing so, he just needs to do it more often...

FluffyUnbound
09-28-2007, 08:29 AM
Guys, you do realize that Paul has beaten an incumbent in a House election [a very difficult thing to do] multiple times?

This isn't his first campaign.

I'm becoming more and more convinced over time that some of Paul's debate mannerisms are PART OF THE BRAND.

During the times when Paul was speaking quickly to jam stuff in, or took what seemed like an extreme approach to an answer, or disdained from putting something in human interest terms - ask yourself this: Did you think he was answering truthfully and sincerely? Or did you think he was pandering?

Later in the campaign when the shit really starts to fly, I think one meme is going to triumph over all others: Ron Paul will tell us the truth. Everything about his personality feeds into that image. Don't underestimate the appeal of the absent-minded professor demeanor to a frustrated, alienated public accustomed to being lied to.

ARealConservative
09-28-2007, 08:32 AM
his delivery was bad last night.

He spoke too fast, covered too much ground for the time allowed, and came off too angry and emotional.

Not a good debate but nothing truly damaging occured. We just didn't get a nice bump from the debate this time.

ARealConservative
09-28-2007, 08:33 AM
During the times when Paul was speaking quickly to jam stuff in, or took what seemed like an extreme approach to an answer, or disdained from putting something in human interest terms - ask yourself this: Did you think he was answering truthfully and sincerely? Or did you think he was pandering?

I thought name dropping Walter Williams was pandering.

ThePieSwindler
09-28-2007, 08:37 AM
eh it wasnt his best ever. He had some good answers, some not so good ones. I dont think its as "horrible" as some of you make it out to be. I liken it to the iowa debate sort of... wasnt great, but had some good stuff in there. Relax.

CMoore
09-28-2007, 08:38 AM
I thought name dropping Walter Williams was pandering.


I disagree. I have been lobbying for Dr. Williams as VP for some time now.

On the other hand, the VP is such a do nothing job unless the President is
incapacitated, that he may be of better use in a cabinet post. But I
do like him and I see him in some capacity in a Paul administration.

JS4Pat
09-28-2007, 08:46 AM
so, my Question: should the campaign hire some sort of speech/debate trainer ?

YES. And I agree with your analysis.

His Darfur answer was really bad. He said there was "no moral obligation". That will not go over well with a lot of potential RP supporters.

I didn't like the "tax exemption for tipping" comments. It sounded too hokey for Ron Paul.

mconder
09-28-2007, 08:47 AM
Darfur : let them suffer, it's not our buisness.

I think this was the worst moment for Ron last night. Instead of starting out saying it's not our business, he should have said "it is the business of each and every one of us, indeed some would say a duty to help them...any one that feels compelled to help these people should dig deep into their own pockets and give to private charity to help them, but it's not Constitutional for the Federal Government to help." Just end the statement at this point.

aksmith
09-28-2007, 08:49 AM
This was not a performance for the time capsule. But I don't think too many people were watching. These early debates should be seen as practice. But pretty soon we're going to have to have enough supporters to stay in the debates. And that's where missed opportunities are damaging. Dr. Paul badly needs a debate coach to help him pare down his answers and make them more coherent.

One on one Dr. Paul is very good. But in these multi-candidate forums, he needs to be able to shine. I agree he may need to take it easy leading up to the debates also.

Johncjackson
09-28-2007, 08:52 AM
Also, I never heard him call Walter Williams a "black" economist. He called him a "free market" one. I think it would only be pandering if he made a point of his race. I am sure for many people "Walter Williams" is not well known and the name is racially neutral. Walter Williams has written many articles about the question that was asked.

There was no question about "black academics" not getting jobs. It was a question about high school graduates. His response was appropriate but it was not articulated well, IMO. I know college graduates who wait tables. It's not wrong IMO to suggest that high school graduates with no further credentials might be well served by training or entry level that pays below minimum wage or take a tip job while furthering education,etc. Hell, my wife and I are both white COLLEGE graduates and have never had well paying jobs. Being a high school graduate ( in most cases) doesnt qualify one for much of anything, much less being considered an "academic."

The problem I think is making all the rational connections in the alloted time. Real issues aren't as simple as soundbites. WE know that, but people who are not exposed to the ideas of Ron Paul and Walter Williams are going to have a hard time grasping.

kenc9
09-28-2007, 09:12 AM
After the Fox News debate he must have been waiting for the "Why did you make those black comments in your news letter" ???

He looked nervous and stressed...

If you ever heard one speech from Dr. Paul you have heard his long answer to everything!

Now he needs to pound the short answers.

Tax issue...
I will cut taxes and spending like you have never seen!

War Issue...
I will march out troops out of Iraq and still keep America safe!

Personal Freedoms...
No National Real ID's... No spying on Americans... No more "Big Brother"!!!

Ne needs to SMILE and have a look of confidence after an answer.
Smiling worked for Kennedy, Carter, Ronald Reagan even worked for Bush Jr. so it will work for anyone.

You can see he is smart...honest...now he needs to be personal!!!

Smiling and maybe a small joke or something.


-ken

ARealConservative
09-28-2007, 09:18 AM
I disagree. I have been lobbying for Dr. Williams as VP for some time now.

On the other hand, the VP is such a do nothing job unless the President is
incapacitated, that he may be of better use in a cabinet post. But I
do like him and I see him in some capacity in a Paul administration.

The name drop was out of place in the context of the discussion.

RonPaulCult
09-28-2007, 09:18 AM
Last night's debate was the only time I felt he was off his game. I think he's tired. The man has been working so damn hard. Don't worry he will bounce back. That last Fox News debate didn't leave any of us thinking he needs help!

JMann
09-28-2007, 09:18 AM
I disagree. I have been lobbying for Dr. Williams as VP for some time now.

On the other hand, the VP is such a do nothing job unless the President is
incapacitated, that he may be of better use in a cabinet post. But I
do like him and I see him in some capacity in a Paul administration.

I like Dr. Williams but does he have any government or campaign experience?

LibertyEagle
09-28-2007, 09:23 AM
Guys, you do realize that Paul has beaten an incumbent in a House election [a very difficult thing to do] multiple times?

This isn't his first campaign.



Yes, but you're forgetting that in a Congressional race, he and his family can do a lot of door-to-door stuff, individually, or holding small intimate gatherings, so he can do what he does best, spend a lot more time explaining the issues and his stances. That's a little hard to do in a national campaign.

He needs to hone his message so that it can be communicated in a much shorter time frame.

apropos
09-28-2007, 09:37 AM
Started slow, finished strong.

mconder
09-28-2007, 09:45 AM
I like Dr. Williams but does he have any government or campaign experience?

Having "government experience" should be one of our last prerequisites. There are thousands of people in Washington with this kind of experience and only 1 who is honest and wise.

ButchHowdy
09-28-2007, 10:00 AM
Sometimes its like hearing an unimpressive song for the first time, but after a few listens, you can't get enough of it.

Same for me with the Ron-only Values Voter debate clips. After the 3rd time I watched it, I realized what a genius Ron Paul was and it became a daily staple for the following week.

I believe the same will occur watching the condensed version of last night, although I was pleased with the first run.

PLEASE . . . Don't wish for Ron to be a Mitt Romney!!

stevedasbach
09-28-2007, 10:07 AM
I wholeheartedly agree that he would benefit from at least listening to what one has to say. I don't want anyone to change his message at all. But, I do think he needs to work on getting it out so everyone can understand it. He can do that pretty well when he has a lot of time, but he isn't good at doing it in these debates when all one has time for is sound bytes.

I also think they should hire an image consultant.

Now, whether he will do that is probably doubtful. I sure wish he would though.

I am quite certain that someone on staff has thought of this.

Hopefully, Ron is watching compilation tapes of his answers so he can see what's working and what needs improvement. If he sees the need for coaching, I'm sure he'll get it. If not, speculating about it here won't make it happen.

Liberty
09-28-2007, 10:28 AM
Darfur : let them suffer, it's not our buisness.

I think this was the worst moment for Ron last night. Instead of starting out saying it's not our business, he should have said "it is the business of each and every one of us, indeed some would say a duty to help them...any one that feels compelled to help these people should dig deep into their own pockets and give to private charity to help them, but it's not Constitutional for the Federal Government to help." Just end the statement at this point.

I totally agree. Emphasis should have been on private charities. Hard to make all of your points with the time limitation.