What is my friggin grassroots money option?!

[wizardwatson]

I will never write an "I give up" thread. Every once in a while I write a, "you are all a bunch of milquetoast panty-waists" thread, but that's half in fun, since it's the truth for most of you. But I feel the frustration at not knowing what to do. I know others feel the frustration and a lot of us have no idea how we can channel that into some kind of visible/useful group action.

Every time I voice an idea I get usually no response, so I feel that a lot of people are either not looking, or just tired of looking for any real grass roots solutions.

Now, I've been harping on strategy ever since I pretty much knew Ron Paul wasn't going to change the face of politics. I think the real strategy is rooted deeply in economics, but that the actual carrying out of that strategy is very simple and grass-rootsey. I believe we can effect great economic change through restructuring the monetary base and credit allocation mechanisms in our local communities DIRECTLY.

Of course that requires listening and reading, which many, including myself, have a lot of distaste for.

But let me illuminate a few things I think the movement wastes its time, money and energy on. Quite simply, all the effort to operate on the national election scene and to allocate any money in that direction, at this point, I believe is fruitless and counter-productive to the cause of liberty. I do not believe in every case this is so, but unless there is a clear opportunity for a single 'libertarian' to 'get past the cavalry' so to speak, as was the case with Ron Paul, I think this time/money/energy is better spent elsewhere.

So I posted a thread I thought was a good idea/alternative to this practice, where we just try to operate kiosks in all fifty capitols where we gave out free stuff:

In this thread: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=205711

It's not Einsteinian, but the precept is the crux. The precept being, that the people funding this are basically designating a portion of their income per month or whatever to fund this thing. And that would be ran grass-roots style, no central money collector.

So the poll is kind of a joke, kind of satire on the liberty movement.

In the early days when RP was running, and we'd meet at places, we felt like just meeting together was an achievement. We need to get back to the simple things that made this movement great.

So lets come up with some ideas. 100,000 people have money they would love to spend on liberty. Let's come up with ideas on how we can tap that market. Even if we're just holding up signs and passing out constitutions that's fine. But sitting at our cubicle/bedroom/coffeeshop and justifying our non-action is getting old.

[wizardwatson]

Like for instance, we should place a conditition that whatever little thing we do, we should do it in all 50 states if we can.

[specsaregood]

In the early days when RP was running, and we'd meet at places, we felt like just meeting together was an achievement. We need to get back to the simple things that made this movement great.


Our local group still meets every two weeks, every two weeks is a new presentation for the public on a variety of topics. People go out every weekend and give out handouts inviting the public to the meetings/presentation. All summer we have been hitting fairs, etc and giving out info and inviting people to those events....

[acptulsa]

I understand people's depression over the daunting task of getting people who represent people, not things like corporations, into Washington. But its the name of the game, isn't it? Isn't all the rest of it (unless you're an ancap, of course) aimed at this ultimate goal?

And does the 'don't blame me, I voted for a human' line mean nothing? That line has done so much for us since Paul's primary run. You know, about a year ago the Haloween Mask Poll, usually so accurate, predicted a Ron Paul win. Well, on election day Paul was still marginalized and Obama at his peak. Where are they relatively speaking now? Did the fact that he wasn't sworn in mean Dr. Paul really did lose?

Hell, he opened the door for his son. For starters...

All of our education must eventually go to political action. That's the end result, right? And who says that campaigns, whether successful or not, aren't educational?

[evilfunnystuff]

start up one of those kiosks your talkin about then instead of trying to come up with some huge ass centraly planned thing

show me your makin an effort and i will donate when i can as ive done with other worthy causes most recently including the liberty rider alex jones 4409 kokesh shiff and rand as well as my own efforts passin out dvd's signs and flyers

do you not think rand shiff or kokesh have a shot or was i readin to much into that?

[wizardwatson]

I understand people's depression over the daunting task of getting people who represent people, not things like corporations, into Washington. But its the name of the game, isn't it? Isn't all the rest of it (unless you're an ancap, of course) aimed at this ultimate goal?

And does the 'don't blame me, I voted for a human' line mean nothing? That line has done so much for us since Paul's primary run. You know, about a year ago the Haloween Mask Poll, usually so accurate, predicted a Ron Paul win. Well, on election day Paul was still marginalized and Obama at his peak. Where are they relatively speaking now? Did the fact that he wasn't sworn in mean Dr. Paul really did lose?

Hell, he opened the door for his son. For starters...

All of our education must eventually go to political action. That's the end result, right? And who says that campaigns, whether successful or not, aren't educational?

I guess this is where I differ from what this liberty movement has become. To me Ron Paul was a challenge to the entire establishment. A shining example of their hypocrisy about how "hard" it is to toe the line.

And getting Paul elected was about tearing down all these connections to the Federal Government, all these excess entitlements etc. But now it seems the whole process has convinced a lot of liberty minded individuals that political campaigning is a viable strategically as our primary angle of attack. Some back-pedal and say 'education' is our real weapon. But the truth is that economics is really our only weapon. It is only through economic cooperation that one group is able to say to another group, we don't need this service/good from you. That's real power in the political economy.

And right now, the only entity most of us cooperate with economically is the federal reserve.

[krazy kaju]

Take extra cash. Buy pamphlets. Pass them out.

[acptulsa]

But the truth is that economics is really our only weapon. It is only through economic cooperation that one group is able to say to another group, we don't need this service/good from you. That's real power in the political economy.

And right now, the only entity most of us cooperate with economically is the federal reserve.

Well, I for one believe that this mess they're purposely creating to cover them while they rob us is going to be a huge opportunity for us, if we can play it right. And I'm stocking up silver in spendable forms against the day, as I personally wish all of us would. So, obviously, I agree with you. But does that need absolutely trump political campaign contributions?

I think one of us would need a better crystal ball before we could say for certain.

[specsaregood]

do you not think rand shiff or kokesh have a shot or was i readin to much into that?

We are 3 days away from a moneybomb that could very well decide the outcome of Rand's campaign. And now there are 2 threads so far this morning from people crying about how we aren't doing enough, its pointless, we are focusing on the wrong things, etc. It doesn't help.

[TheTyke]

We are 3 days away from a moneybomb that could very well decide the outcome of Rand's campaign. And now there are 2 threads so far this morning from people crying about how we aren't doing enough, its pointless, we are focusing on the wrong things, etc. It doesn't help.

Exactly!

This moneybomb could very well make the campaign, but we're at 2200 pledges so far. Where are the "100,000 with money to spend for liberty?" Rand is in a perfect position to win, possibly has more name recognition than his opponent, and we're read to work hard for him here... but we need a successful moneybomb to keep our media attention and overwhelm the establishment.

Spend your money here. The opportunity is now. www.runrandrun.com

YouTube - A New Champion - Dr. Rand Paul (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLD-zG0_bDE)

[Ian A.]

If you "don't know" Rand Paul or Peter Schiff, you're a noob. What we need is more promotion of liberty candidates. Plain and simple. Getting Rand in office is CENTRAL. Period.

Want some advice? Go to the Rand Paul section, sign up to myspace, and start promoting Rand's moneybomb on August 20.

[specsaregood]

Want some advice? Go to the Rand Paul section, sign up to myspace, and start promoting Rand's moneybomb on August 20.

Exactly I just told 40 more people via myspace about the moneybomb. Took me about 5 minutes. If just 5 of them contribute or get friends to contribute, it is worth it. And just one of them has the potential to inform 40 more people themselves.

[mczerone]

Here's a couple of good options for those with or without money to give:

1) Fund civil disobedience and activism, or do it.

2) Invest in a down payment on a new house in NH, or sign up for the Free State Project.

3) Better yourself, make a living, and live the ideals of freedom.

4) Support liberty-minded companies, artists, and charities with money, volunteering, or just some verbal marketing.

[wizardwatson]

The point everyone seems to be missing is that group action begets group action. Right now all the group action is focused on money bombs for political campaigns. The strategy of focusing on political campaigns has been railed against by many including myself as a sure way to drive the movement into the toilet.

"Save extra money, buy pamphlets, pass them out" suggestions and the like, are all great, but we need to do them together. We need group action in order to make these discussions about democracy, constitutions, property rights, etc. meaningful.

The web is a great place to brainstorm ideas and organize large scale collective action. We aren't doing that. I'm trying to take the first step and ask why.

[specsaregood]

"Save extra money, buy pamphlets, pass them out" suggestions and the like, are all great, but we need to do them together. We need group action in order to make these discussions about democracy, constitutions, property rights, etc. meaningful.


Individual action is just as inspiring. I don't need a group in order to inspire me to do things. Get out there and do it and people will join you.

[acptulsa]

The web is a great place to brainstorm ideas and organize large scale collective action. We aren't doing that. I'm trying to take the first step and ask why.

Maybe the answer is in here--or maybe everyone but the self-styled academics were ignoring this place at the time...

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=199733

[wizardwatson]

If you "don't know" Rand Paul or Peter Schiff, you're a noob. What we need is more promotion of liberty candidates. Plain and simple. Getting Rand in office is CENTRAL. Period.

Want some advice? Go to the Rand Paul section, sign up to myspace, and start promoting Rand's moneybomb on August 20.

No offense to OP but I've heard this line last two years and its bullshit imo.

What is Rand going to do? Why can't we convince the one in there now to do it? If it's lobbyists, lets get our own lobbyists.

Getting liberty minded candidates 'promoted' is not what we 'need'. Plain and simply or otherwise. We need liberty, we need it as soon as possible and we need it by all non-aggressive means possible.

This political campaign focusing is gradualist and defeatist in nature. We shouldn't be trying to grease the wheel's of the machine in our favor, we should be dismantling it plain and simple. I would rather be doing sit-ins and protests than participating in political campaigns. It shows lack of contempt for the shame of a process it has become.

[acptulsa]

Getting liberty minded candidates 'promoted' is not what we 'need'. Plain and simply or otherwise. We need liberty, we need it as soon as possible and we need it by all non-aggressive means possible.

You don't think filling the halls of Congress could possibly help us regain our liberty? No way? Or is it too aggressive for you?

[specsaregood]

No offense to OP but I've heard this line last two years and its bullshit imo.

What is Rand going to do? Why can't we convince the one in there now to do it? If it's lobbyists, lets get our own lobbyists.

Getting liberty minded candidates 'promoted' is not what we 'need'. Plain and simply or otherwise. We need liberty, we need it as soon as possible and we need it by all non-aggressive means possible.


So is the point of your thread to discourage people from actively supporting the liberty candidates that are running? That is what it is beginning to sound like.

[wizardwatson]

If you "don't know" Rand Paul or Peter Schiff, you're a noob. What we need is more promotion of liberty candidates. Plain and simple. Getting Rand in office is CENTRAL. Period.

Want some advice? Go to the Rand Paul section, sign up to myspace, and start promoting Rand's moneybomb on August 20.


Maybe the answer is in here--or maybe everyone but the self-styled academics were ignoring this place at the time...

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=199733

I know there's still a bunch of inspired people around. I'm just in the mood to get back organizing again and want to see who still gives a shit. We've got manpower and capital to spend, there's lots of things we could do, and I love that 'citizenship class' idea. There were also lots of agorist ideas that GilligansCorner dude talked about, and I'm thinking of trying to get some financing together to fund some open source currency software so that liberty people can have there own p2p banking system.

[wizardwatson]

So is the point of your thread to discourage people from actively supporting the liberty candidates that are running? That is what it is beginning to sound like.

That's not the point of the thread. The point of the thread is to discuss alternatives. However, it is my stance that its a waste of effort compared to alternatives. And I wouldn't encourage people to act in that direction at this point in time.

[specsaregood]

That's not the point of the thread. The point of the thread is to discuss alternatives. However, it is my stance that its a waste of effort compared to alternatives. And I wouldn't encourage people to act in that direction at this point in time.

You don't think that railing about how it is pointless and a waste of effort is discouraging?

[MsDoodahs]

The web is a great place to brainstorm ideas and organize large scale collective action. We aren't doing that. I'm trying to take the first step and ask why.

We lost our focus when the presidential race ended.

I understand the idea that "the best ideas will bubble up to the top" but frankly, without some FOCUS and DIRECTION, what bubbles up ... is ... um ...

Let's just say sometimes, it appears we are suffering from a case of 'forum steatorrhea.' :eek:

Wizard, is the p2p banking similar to that banking system BJ Lawson was working on in his area?

[pacelli]

We are 3 days away from a moneybomb that could very well decide the outcome of Rand's campaign. And now there are 2 threads so far this morning from people crying about how we aren't doing enough, its pointless, we are focusing on the wrong things, etc. It doesn't help.

Totally agreed. Timing is everything here. I will say, thank goodness this forum isn't the primary fundraising source for Rand's campaign.

[wizardwatson]

I guess everyone just sees it differently. I'm not saying anyone isn't doing enough. I'm saying 95% of everyone is doing nothing.

And the 5% that are doing something, are excited about how we're 3 days from a moneybomb that will be "pivotal" in the campaign of a man who will spend his time in office not voting for things.

It is easy to claim victory if we turn the concept of failure into victory, using abstract definitions and bad memory.

We need fight club mentality in the movement, not always positive Obama-mania crap with a few armchair anarcho-capitalist intellectuals content to be big fish in a little pond telling all the little fish that everything's fine, and anyone who says otherwise is a dissenter.

The point is, no one is the great master and the great leader. But real dialog must begin with discussion of the real situation.

If no one sees a problem. If no one thinks we were more motivated and connected before. If no one thinks the movement wasn't about campaigns but connections. If no one thinks communication between liberty minded individuals can be improved...

then maybe there isn't a reason for 'crying' threads like these.

[Anti Federalist]

Here's a couple of good options for those with or without money to give:

1) Fund civil disobedience and activism, or do it.

2) Invest in a down payment on a new house in NH, or sign up for the Free State Project.

3) Better yourself, make a living, and live the ideals of freedom.

4) Support liberty-minded companies, artists, and charities with money, volunteering, or just some verbal marketing.

Hmmm...

1 - Done, done and done.

2 - Already done, years ago.

3 - Trying, hard...

4 - Done on an ongoing basis.

Not too bad.

[wizardwatson]

"Don't worry...

About a thing...

Cuz every little thing...

gonna be all right...."

[tremendoustie]

I will never write an "I give up" thread. Every once in a while I write a, "you are all a bunch of milquetoast panty-waists" thread, but that's half in fun, since it's the truth for most of you. But I feel the frustration at not knowing what to do. I know others feel the frustration and a lot of us have no idea how we can channel that into some kind of visible/useful group action.

Every time I voice an idea I get usually no response, so I feel that a lot of people are either not looking, or just tired of looking for any real grass roots solutions.

Now, I've been harping on strategy ever since I pretty much knew Ron Paul wasn't going to change the face of politics. I think the real strategy is rooted deeply in economics, but that the actual carrying out of that strategy is very simple and grass-rootsey. I believe we can effect great economic change through restructuring the monetary base and credit allocation mechanisms in our local communities DIRECTLY.

Of course that requires listening and reading, which many, including myself, have a lot of distaste for.

But let me illuminate a few things I think the movement wastes its time, money and energy on. Quite simply, all the effort to operate on the national election scene and to allocate any money in that direction, at this point, I believe is fruitless and counter-productive to the cause of liberty. I do not believe in every case this is so, but unless there is a clear opportunity for a single 'libertarian' to 'get past the cavalry' so to speak, as was the case with Ron Paul, I think this time/money/energy is better spent elsewhere.

So I posted a thread I thought was a good idea/alternative to this practice, where we just try to operate kiosks in all fifty capitols where we gave out free stuff:

In this thread: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=205711 (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=205711)

It's not Einsteinian, but the precept is the crux. The precept being, that the people funding this are basically designating a portion of their income per month or whatever to fund this thing. And that would be ran grass-roots style, no central money collector.

So the poll is kind of a joke, kind of satire on the liberty movement.

In the early days when RP was running, and we'd meet at places, we felt like just meeting together was an achievement. We need to get back to the simple things that made this movement great.

So lets come up with some ideas. 100,000 people have money they would love to spend on liberty. Let's come up with ideas on how we can tap that market. Even if we're just holding up signs and passing out constitutions that's fine. But sitting at our cubicle/bedroom/coffeeshop and justifying our non-action is getting old.

Join the Free State Project!

I guarantee agorism and monetary activism will be far more effective there, with concentrated liberty activists. Heck, they already trade using silver from what I hear.