I just came back to this forum after a hiatus...

[JordanL]

...and WTF.

What the hell happened to this place. Can any old timer explain to me when the hell this became a clearing house for:

- Anti-social Politics
- Middle School Mock Debates
- Anarchists
- Obama Conspiracy Theorists

When I was last active here, this forum was about a group of people comitted to changing hearts and minds, to educating and enlightening, no matter what the nation did. A group dedicated to organized, sensible action on things which actually yield results.

And now...

:eek:

It's like someone went out and signed up all their "fight the man" 16 year old cousins... what happened to reasoned debate and organized purpose?

:(

Ron Paul would be ashamed... we've become impotent at our stated purpose.

[acptulsa]

There were always trolls. But during the campaign there was enough to get done that they got drowned out. Now, in the lull, it has taken on more of a think tank role. Of course, not every seminar in the think tank is of think tank quality. We also get the undergraduates...

The mods err on the side of free speech more than they used to, to be sure. Seems to be by design.

[pacelli]

...and WTF.

What the hell happened to this place. Can any old timer explain to me when the hell this became a clearing house for:

- Anti-social Politics
- Middle School Mock Debates
- Anarchists
- Obama Conspiracy Theorists

When I was last active here, this forum was about a group of people comitted to changing hearts and minds, to educating and enlightening, no matter what the nation did. A group dedicated to organized, sensible action on things which actually yield results.

And now...

:eek:

It's like someone went out and signed up all their "fight the man" 16 year old cousins... what happened to reasoned debate and organized purpose?

:(

Ron Paul would be ashamed... we've become impotent at our stated purpose.

The reality of WTF happened is that too many sane people left.

[acptulsa]

The reality of WTF happened is that too many sane people left.

Lol. I've heard worse explanations.

[JordanL]

The reality of WTF happened is that too many sane people left.

Ah, I see how it is. Blame this on me. ;)


The mods err on the side of free speech more than they used to, to be sure. Seems to be by design.

Oh? I was wondering how the dramatic drop in quality seemed to go by Josh unnoticed...

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

This is still a good place to come get sane alternate news quickly.

[pacelli]

Ah, I see how it is. Blame this on me. ;)



No, you'll blend right in to the new forum dynamic, heck you've already got the persecution complex :D

[pacelli]

Lol. I've heard worse explanations.

I'm feeling friendly today haha! ;)

[acptulsa]

I'm feeling friendly today haha! ;)

The thing is, when you say it it carries weight! :eek:

[BenIsForRon]

The problem is that a lot of people still visit to get news and stuff, and they will have the totally wrong idea about what the Campaign for Liberty grassroots looks like.

[Ian A.]

- Obama Conspiracy Theorists

If your not a conspiracy theorist of some kind, this has never been the forum for you.

[NewEnd]

...and WTF.

What the hell happened to this place. Can any old timer explain to me when the hell this became a clearing house for:

- Anti-social Politics
- Middle School Mock Debates
- Anarchists
- Obama Conspiracy Theorists

When I was last active here, this forum was about a group of people comitted to changing hearts and minds, to educating and enlightening, no matter what the nation did. A group dedicated to organized, sensible action on things which actually yield results.

And now...

:eek:

It's like someone went out and signed up all their "fight the man" 16 year old cousins... what happened to reasoned debate and organized purpose?

:(

Ron Paul would be ashamed... we've become impotent at our stated purpose.

There is no need anymore, as far as I am concerned. I mean, those bailouts happened after it the conventions. Once those happened, and as Obama continued them, I woke up and realized we are fucked. I am not an anarchist because I want to be, I am because the only other option is submission. I mean really, do you really think we have any kind of functioning democracy, in any way, any more? Do you truly believe if you talk to just 2 more people, that things will change? they won't. People don't change, until they learn lessons, the hard way. We all got a hard lesson coming. Maybe they will change afterward, and hopefully the seeds have been planted so some kind of freedom can come from the collapse, but I for one have my serious doubts. I see the reaction will more likely be to blame foreigners, muslims, Europe, and go to war over it to try and keep what we had... worldwide domination.

[JordanL]

There is no need anymore, as far as I am concerned. I mean, those bailouts happened after it the conventions. Once those happened, and as Obama continued them, I woke up and realized we are fucked. I am not an anarchist because I want to be, I am because the only other option is submission. I mean really, do you really think we have any kind of functioning democracy, in any way, any more? Do you truly believe if you talk to just 2 more people, that things will change? they won't. People don't change, until they learn lessons, the hard way. We all got a hard lesson coming. Maybe they will change afterward, and hopefully the seeds have been planted so some kind of freedom can come from the collapse, but I for one have my serious doubts. I see the reaction will more likely be to blame foreigners, muslims, Europe, and go to war over it to try and keep what we had... worldwide domination.

So you weren't able to prevent a 30 year disaster in the making, and thus you've given up on the principals of your society because people don't know any better?


If your not a conspiracy theorist of some kind, this has never been the forum for you.

Not true. Once upon a time this forum was about:

1. Educating people who honestly don't know better.
2. Promoting liberty and freedom.
3. Promoting those who promote liberty and freedom.
4. Organizing liberty minded individuals together to leverage our collective will.

And none of that is driven by conspiracy.

[NewEnd]

So you weren't able to prevent a 30 year disaster in the making, and thus you've given up on the principals of your society because people don't know any better?



Yes. People are really stupid. The wars were a disaster, the bailouts were a disaster on top of that disaster. And the whole time, all we can get is ridicule. I am ready for the chips to fall where they may. There is no time left to change things.


Be honest. Do you truly believe things can change? Do you truly believe we still have time?

[JordanL]

Yes. People are really stupid. The wars were a disaster, the bailouts were a disaster on top of that disaster. And the whole time, all we can get is ridicule. I am ready for the chips to fall where they may. There is no time left to change things.


Be honest. Do you truly believe things can change? Do you truly believe we still have time?

What, to stop utter disaster? No, of course we dont have time for that. We never did.

What we do have time for is to give us back a society which respects liberty and freedom.

[acptulsa]

Be honest. Do you truly believe things can change? Do you truly believe we still have time?

I say yes to both. Pretty tough old country, with a pretty resourceful people. I don't see us letting our charismatic psychopaths keep us down all that long.

[Akus]

...and WTF.

What the hell happened to this place. Can any old timer explain to me when the hell this became a clearing house for:

- Anti-social Politics
- Middle School Mock Debates
- Anarchists
- Obama Conspiracy Theorists

When I was last active here, this forum was about a group of people comitted to changing hearts and minds, to educating and enlightening, no matter what the nation did. A group dedicated to organized, sensible action on things which actually yield results.

And now...

:eek:

It's like someone went out and signed up all their "fight the man" 16 year old cousins... what happened to reasoned debate and organized purpose?

:(

Ron Paul would be ashamed... we've become impotent at our stated purpose.
What happened is exactly what should have happened. Ron Paul ran a bullshit campaign ran by "fight the man" teenagers, naturally, lost and as soon as he did, we all scattered into our previous political sectors: truthers, Obama bots, angst teenagers in their moms' basements and so on.

I said from the beginning that, with no leader, we are worthless. I even suggested we throw all of our people mass into helping Bob Barr win. I was brushed aside as we are supposed to "change hearts and minds", whatever in the blue fuck that means.

That's what happens to all liberty movements I'm told. Sacrificing a view to advance some other, more important view is not in the scope of interest of most so-called "liberty fighters".

I personally was a Libertarian and will continue giving my vote to LP presidential candidate. But if Obama, say, ends the war on drugs (yeah, hold your breath), I will vote for him in 2012, even if he does absolutely nothing else. Read into it what you want.

[pcosmar]

Some of us are here. Many left. I did for a bit. I came here for Ron Paul's Campaign, when he dropped out of the race, the purpose shifted.
This is now Liberty Forest , and as such has a wider scope.
As far as the "Conspiracy theorist" thing,, are you a conspiracy denier? do you look at history? do you speculate on the future?
Do you believe that Barrack Obama, with no outside help, rose from obscurity to the present position, all on his own, and by his own merit?
Or was he promoted and backed by others?
Did they conspire to do this? ;)

[JordanL]

What happened is exactly what should have happened. Ron Paul ran a bullshit campaign ran by "fight the man" teenagers, naturally, lost and as soon as he did, we all scattered into our previous political sectors: truthers, Obama bots, angst teenagers in their moms' basements and so on.

I said from the beginning that, with no leader, we are worthless. I even suggested we throw all of our people mass into helping Bob Barr win. I was brushed aside as we are supposed to "change hearts and minds", whatever in the blue fuck that means.

That's what happens to all liberty movements I'm told. Sacrificing a view to advance some other, more important view is not in the scope of interest of most so-called "liberty fighters".

I personally was a Libertarian and will continue giving my vote to LP presidential candidate. But if Obama, say, ends the war on drugs (yeah, hold your breath), I will vote for him in 2012, even if he does absolutely nothing else. Read into it what you want.

Did you watch ANY of RPs debate performances? He was running anything but a bullshit campaign... his PR people were terrible, but that's not the same as running an empty campaign.

[NewEnd]

What we do have time for is to give us back a society which respects liberty and freedom.

I remember a soldier, a doctor, called Iraqis animals, because of the way they acted. I simply do not share your optimism that people will be better to each other in crisis or coming out of the crisis. It will all be about how blue did it, or its all reds fault. If it wasn't for the blacks, or if only the whites had understood.

Seriously, the "conspiracy" theorists have been predicting the future quite well. The only way people will listen is if they find sages who could predict the future...

wait, we have motherfuckers like Schiff PREDICTING THE FUCKING FUTURE, saying exactly why and when the markets will fail

Dumbasses like Bernanke, saying that it will never fail.

Who are the automatons still listening to?

Look, the truth is crystal clear to those whose eyes are open, but we simply cannot fight all that conditioning. People are beyond inundated in corporate and government propaganda. Therefore, I am not falling on the sword for any of them. I am not fighting for their freedoms. I have no time or energy for the weak minded fools that are dragging me down with them. No... I will fight for myself, and myself only. Not even my freedoms. Just my own self. I am done trying. I spent way too much energy on my fucking dumb ass selfish bloody Americans compatriots. I'm not lifting one more pinky. I'm just watching the show now, and adding my worthless commentary.

[specsaregood]

What happened is exactly what should have happened. Ron Paul ran a bullshit campaign ran by "fight the man" teenagers, naturally, lost and as soon as he did, we all scattered into our previous political sectors: truthers, Obama bots, angst teenagers in their moms' basements and so on.


That's interesting, did you actually meet any Ron Paul supporters? Ya know, the people out there actually doing things? I did, I met a few hundred of them and I didn't see any "fight the man" teenagers. Many were actually adults with houses and jobs and children -- sometimes teenagers -- of their own. Hardly the momma's basement types.

[NewEnd]

One more thing about conspiracies.

Every year, there are thousands of convictions for conspiracy. Every year, thousands of men get away with criminal conspiracies.

Yet, you want me to believe, that the people with all the money, and power in the world, can't commit them?

Please.


I did, I met a few hundred of them and I didn't see any "fight the man" teenagers.

I met plenty of them... not that there is anything wrong with it, actually. Ron Paul had no chance. He had no chance, he had no chance, he had no chance, so please, stop trying to blame each other. That is what defeat does, but if you remember he had no chance, you should be able to at least acknowledge RP supporters by and large weren't at least going to the sluice deck mooing.

[evilfunnystuff]

so the federal reseve isnt a conspiracy?

how bout the NWO?

how bout the the bailouts?

how bout marginalizing ron paul?

if you dont believe these are conspiracy i suggest you look up the definition of conspiracy

regardless if you are for less govt and more personal responsibility im glad your back

you know about the rand paul moneybomb on thursday right?

ps im 30 and "the man" started it

[pcosmar]

That's interesting, did you actually meet any Ron Paul supporters? Ya know, the people out there actually doing things? I did, I met a few hundred of them and I didn't see any "fight the man" teenagers. Many were actually adults with houses and jobs and children -- sometimes teenagers -- of their own. Hardly the momma's basement types.
We also had a lot of folks that didn't "get it" from the start.
Some of them pushing "alternatives" ( neo-con Barr) .
I still believe that Ron's main purpose in running was to wake a core group of Americans and to educate.
I am sure that he is smart enough and wise enough to realize that the GOP would never allow him (or anyone like him) to be president.

Oh, and at 52, I an hardly a teenager.

[specsaregood]

I still believe that Ron's main purpose in running was to wake a core group of Americans and to educate.
I am sure that he is smart enough and wise enough to realize that the GOP would never allow him (or anyone like him) to be president.

Indeed and to that aim he was very successful.

On Barr, I can only speak for myself and other people I know: many of us supported Dr. Paul enthusiastically with our time and our money because we TRUSTED him. For many of us, this was the first time ever we could say we trusted a politician. Barr? Not so much....

And worth noting, the people I met and pounded the pavement with are still together, still active and still working to educate the public. They have all split up into different groups, but all still intermingling, working together and focusing on similar goals.

[Anti Federalist]

...and WTF.
Ron Paul would be ashamed... we've become impotent at our stated purpose.

Huh?

HR 1207 has a majority of House members as co-sponsors.

Ron Paul's bills to audit or abolish the Fed have gone nowhere in years past.

Did you call or write your congresscritter to make that happen?

Rand's "money bomb" is coming up on the 20th. He has a very good chance at winning his Senate race.

Have you pledged or contributed?

Ron Paul Hawaii completed a cross country "liberty ride", bringing the message to thousands of people.

Did you donate to his, honestly, heroic, effort?

Yes, the "teen angst" is here, always was, as were the conspiracy theorists (I know, I'm one of them) as were the endless debates over god, man and homosexuality.

There are still grass roots growing here.

Many of us "old timers" are just in a holding pattern, waiting for the next push and keeping our powder dry.

[MsDoodahs]

Ron Paul had no chance. He had no chance, he had no chance, he had no chance, so please, stop trying to blame each other. That is what defeat does, but if you remember he had no chance, you should be able to at least acknowledge RP supporters by and large weren't at least going to the sluice deck mooing.

^^ TRUTH.

Ron didn't stand a chance in hell OF WINNING THE GOP NOMINATION. I knew that going in.

What he DID have a chance to do - and what he DID...

is he brought all of us TOGETHER.

PRIOR to the Paul campaign - we did not know that each other even EXISTED.

What that campaign did was BRING TOGETHER those who previously thought they were damn near ALONE in their point of view.

As to what happened to this forum, it's simple: when the campaign was ongoing, we had a FOCUS: Ron Paul.

When the campaign ended, RPFs LOST ITS FOCUS.

[LittleLightShining]

Sorry, my bad.

[NewEnd]

Ok, so you'll fit right in then. :rolleyes: You're complaining that this has become a do-nothing forum and what are you advocating?

Uh... I don't... would you look over this thread again, and then rescind your accusation, please? I'm really not sure how that first quote got attributed to me.

;)

[Bradley in DC]

If your not a conspiracy theorist of some kind, this has never been the forum for you.

Not at all true, no.

The migration of Obama conspiracists here post-election that have/had no real understand for nor appreciation of Dr. Paul's ideas is a big part of the problem.

[specsaregood]

Not at all true, no.

The migration of Obama conspiracists here post-election that have/had no real understand for nor appreciation of Dr. Paul's ideas is a big part of the problem.

There have always been conspiracy talk here; most of it having nothing to do with obama.

Example one. I suppose this had nothing to do with any conspiracy by the media.
http://silenceisdefeat.com/~chris/blog/images/foxnewskipsronpaul.jpg

[Pod]

...and WTF.

What the hell happened to this place. Can any old timer explain to me when the hell this became a clearing house for:

- Anti-social Politics
- Middle School Mock Debates
- Anarchists
- Obama Conspiracy Theorists

When I was last active here, this forum was about a group of people comitted to changing hearts and minds, to educating and enlightening, no matter what the nation did. A group dedicated to organized, sensible action on things which actually yield results.

And now...

:eek:

It's like someone went out and signed up all their "fight the man" 16 year old cousins... what happened to reasoned debate and organized purpose?

:(

Ron Paul would be ashamed... we've become impotent at our stated purpose.

Yay, becuse you registered in 2007 you now get to whine and complain and bash a whole forum? Yes, you registered in 2007, we get it. That makes you superior so you can now come back and attack and persecute the people who have actually kept the online community alive and the debates going as anti-social 16 year olds.

I`ll take an Obama conspiracy theorist over a high and mighty asswipe any given day.

[LittleLightShining]

Uh... I don't... would you look over this thread again, and then rescind your accusation, please? I'm really not sure how that first quote got attributed to me.

;) I'm so sorry! I could give you 6 excuses-- 3 human and 3 canine but none would suffice.

*needs to stop procrastinating because she can't even concentrate on her time wasting*

[torchbearer]

No conspiracy here! :rolleyes:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2650/3782465505_63666ba4dd_o.jpg

Did you ever hear what happened at the Louisiana Caucus?
Definitely no conspiracy against Ron's campaign.

[Cowlesy]

Well I guess we should fold-up tents, and us adults go buy nintendo-wii's and new jet-skis and screw around because clearly this isn't worth it.

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

What happened is exactly what should have happened. Ron Paul ran a bullshit campaign ran by "fight the man" teenagers, naturally, lost and as soon as he did, we all scattered into our previous political sectors: truthers, Obama bots, angst teenagers in their moms' basements and so on.

I said from the beginning that, with no leader, we are worthless. I even suggested we throw all of our people mass into helping Bob Barr win.


That again? Bob Barr only proved the LP was less principled than it had previously claimed. Had the LP nominated anyone else, they would have garnered much more support from Paul supporters.

I don't know how anyone can look back on Barr as anything but a disaster for the LP, and he would have been a disaster for Paul supporters too.




^^ TRUTH.

Ron didn't stand a chance in hell OF WINNING THE GOP NOMINATION. I knew that going in.

What he DID have a chance to do - and what he DID...

is he brought all of us TOGETHER.

PRIOR to the Paul campaign - we did not know that each other even EXISTED.

What that campaign did was BRING TOGETHER those who previously thought they were damn near ALONE in their point of view.

As to what happened to this forum, it's simple: when the campaign was ongoing, we had a FOCUS: Ron Paul.

When the campaign ended, RPFs LOST ITS FOCUS.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ yeah, that. Although, I personally believed that Paul could win because I fool myself into having faith in humanity ever few years. I underestimated the extent that media is involved in how screwed up things are. I once thought they were stupid, but now I lean toward evil.

[NewEnd]

Well I guess we should fold-up tents, and us adults go buy nintendo-wii's and new jet-skis and screw around because clearly this isn't worth it.

You know, spending your money ASAP might not be a bad idea. Goods will be better than FRNs. AND imagine all the fun you can have riding the bomb to ground zero.


Although, I personally believed that Paul could win because I fool myself into having faith in humanity ever few years. I underestimated the extent that media is involved in how screwed up things are. I once thought they were stupid, but now I lean toward evil.

I was foolish enough to think they would let Ron play by the same rules too.

[acptulsa]

Free speech is a wonderful thing, and I'll fight to the death to preserve it. But the fact remains that you very, very often get what you pay for...

[Bradley in DC]

There have always been conspiracy talk here; most of it having nothing to do with obama.

You don't contradict what I said. Some of us object to the misstatement that everyone here always had to be a conspiracist of some sort.

Previously, generally, those of a conspiracist bent supported Dr. Paul and his agenda.
What I pointed out is that after the campaign there have been new conspiracists that display no understanding of Dr. Paul's beliefs. The thread topic is the change in the forum. ;)

[Bradley in DC]

Ron didn't stand a chance in hell OF WINNING THE GOP NOMINATION.

Without getting into it here and highjacking the thread, I disagree.

[NewEnd]

I'm so sorry!

Well, I'll let you off the hook this time. But next time, its enhanced interrogation for you.


Free speech is a wonderful thing, and I'll fight to the death to preserve it. But the fact remains that you very, very often get what you pay for...

Not sure what that means, but we don't have free speech anymore anyways. By that I mean, as everything here is recorded, I know a lot of us know it will come back to haunt us when things get bad. Even if that isn't the case, the fear alone silences a lot of people. I mean, that I think is one of the reasons they required passports for Canada, and did the torture thing.. it was as much to scare us as it was to scare terists.

[torchbearer]

You don't contradict what I said. Some of us object to the misstatement that everyone here always had to be a conspiracist of some sort.

Previously, generally, those of a conspiracist bent supported Dr. Paul and his agenda.
What I pointed out is that after the campaign there have been new conspiracists that display no understanding of Dr. Paul's beliefs. The thread topic is the change in the forum. ;)

everyone believes in conspiracy.
the idea that conspiracy equals fiction is most likely a product of hollywood.
this country was founded on a conspiracy against the king? do you deny this happened?
The Gulf of Tonkin was a conspiracy to get us into war? Do you deny this happened?
Nixon and his thugs conspired to snoop on the Dems, Do you deny this happened?

If you believe any of the above- you believe in conspiracies.

[specsaregood]

//

[evilfunnystuff]

everyone believes in conspiracy.
the idea that conspiracy equals fiction is most likely a product of hollywood.
this country was founded on a conspiracy against the king? do you deny this happened?
The Gulf of Tonkin was a conspiracy to get us into war? Do you deny this happened?
Nixon and his thugs conspired to snoop on the Dems, Do you deny this happened?

If you believe any of the above- you believe in conspiracies.

he didnt say he didnt believe in conspiracys

hes sayin he thingks alot of new people are here pumpin the birther story do not share ideals similar to rons

[torchbearer]

he didnt say he didnt believe in conspiracys

hes sayin he thingks alot of new people are here pumpin the birther story do not share ideals similar to rons

how do you get that out of this:

Some of us object to the misstatement that everyone here always had to be a conspiracist of some sort.

[evilfunnystuff]

how do you get that out of this:

my bad your right i hadd this part stuck in my head and the first part of it slipped my mind

What I pointed out is that after the campaign there have been new conspiracists that display no understanding of Dr. Paul's beliefs. The thread topic is the change in the forum.

i really need to go to sleep lol

[NewEnd]

how do you get that out of this:

Funnily, it is what I got out of it. ;) In fact, I knew what he meant right away... and, it was the reason I personally left for many months. It wasn't that I cared much, it was just such a stupid waste to even talk about it, and not helpful, and felt like a desperate shot in the dark to keep twedle dee out in favor of tweedle dum. You can slam Obama for policies easy enough.

[torchbearer]

Funnily, it is what I got out of it. ;) In fact, I knew what he meant right away... and, it was the reason I personally left for many months. It wasn't that I cared much, it was just such a stupid waste to even talk about it, and not helpful, and felt like a desperate shot in the dark to keep twedle dee out in favor of tweedle dum. You can slam Obama for policies easy enough.

I see a whole spectrum of people here... people pick and choose what conspiracy that believe are real or possible.
To degrade others because you think that your conspiracies are superior to theirs is dishonest at best.

[specsaregood]

Congratulations OP, you were successful in temporarily derailling some efforts to promote Rands moneybomb via distraction this morning. With that, I'm done with this thread. Im going to do some promoting.

[angelatc]

...and WTF.

What the hell happened to this place. Can any old timer explain to me when the hell this became a clearing house for:

- Anti-social Politics
- Middle School Mock Debates
- Anarchists
- Obama Conspiracy Theorists

When I was last active here, this forum was about a group of people comitted to changing hearts and minds, to educating and enlightening, no matter what the nation did. A group dedicated to organized, sensible action on things which actually yield results.

And now...

:eek:

It's like someone went out and signed up all their "fight the man" 16 year old cousins... what happened to reasoned debate and organized purpose?

:(

Ron Paul would be ashamed... we've become impotent at our stated purpose.

Hi Jordan.

You're so right, and only recently has it begun grating on my nerves. But there is still an impressive number of us still working on it all.

It really does make me sad to see how many productive people have wandered away.

[Chester Copperpot]

...and WTF.

What the hell happened to this place. Can any old timer explain to me when the hell this became a clearing house for:

- Anti-social Politics
- Middle School Mock Debates
- Anarchists
- Obama Conspiracy Theorists

When I was last active here, this forum was about a group of people comitted to changing hearts and minds, to educating and enlightening, no matter what the nation did. A group dedicated to organized, sensible action on things which actually yield results.

And now...

:eek:

It's like someone went out and signed up all their "fight the man" 16 year old cousins... what happened to reasoned debate and organized purpose?

:(

Ron Paul would be ashamed... we've become impotent at our stated purpose.

Shrug.... I know what you mean

[RevolutionSD]

Anarchists are the most sane people on this board!

[NewEnd]

I see a whole spectrum of people here... people pick and choose what conspiracy that believe are real or possible.
To degrade others because you think that your conspiracies are superior to theirs is dishonest at best.


And I even have my own favorites.... but you never saw me talking about them. ;) You can slam Bush/McCain/Obama/Palin/Biden/Cheney for policies or votes easy enough.

[moostraks]

I see a whole spectrum of people here... people pick and choose what conspiracy that believe are real or possible.
To degrade others because you think that your conspiracies are superior to theirs is dishonest at best.

Well said!

[moostraks]

By that I mean, as everything here is recorded, I know a lot of us know it will come back to haunt us when things get bad.

Tick off the wrong neighbor who calls one of the abc agencies or cross the line with the wrong beaurecrat, yeah they will use your forum/online history to hang you. I had one malicious neighbor who called every agency in the book on us. (She lost btw :D)

For those who disbelieve this, an extreme example is that guy who shot the police in Pittsburgh area. It was merely hours before the media was all over his web history and blurting it to the voyeuristic public. Now why do we need to know this and what does searching his computer have to do with an escalated domestic dispute???


Even if that isn't the case, the fear alone silences a lot of people. I mean, that I think is one of the reasons they required passports for Canada, and did the torture thing.. it was as much to scare us as it was to scare terists.

So true. Having had neighbor issues with connected individuals with a vendetta (and these were small potato people) I watch my tongue on many issues. (Sometimes it is harder than others!)

[Akus]

Did you watch ANY of RPs debate performances? He was running anything but a bullshit campaign... his PR people were terrible, but that's not the same as running an empty campaign.

Oh I did, trust me, and that is the reason why I believe it was a bullshit campaign. Yes, media bias and inexperience of his staff are to blame also, but the man appeared totally indifferent of the race out come.

[acptulsa]

Oh I did, trust me, and that is the reason why I believe it was a bullshit campaign. Yes, media bias and inexperience of his staff are to blame also, but the man appeared totally indifferent of the race out come.

Well, Barr may or may not have been indifferent to the outcome. But his campaign was b.s. on so many other levels that it hardly matters...

[Akus]

Ron Paul had no chance. He had no chance, he had no chance, he had no chance, so please, stop trying to blame each other. Yes he did, yes he did, yes he did, so please, study the campaign flaws and make sure they do not happen come 2012.

[mczerone]

Yes he did, yes he did, yes he did, so please, study the campaign flaws and make sure they do not happen come 2012.

Assuming Ron was given a fair shot by the media, assuming he had known up front that he would be able to raise millions of dollars and could've raised an appropriate staff, and assuming that we all volunteered twice as much money and effort: Ron wouldn't have won the primary.

There are still too many people that are fat and happy, upset about brown people (foreign or domestic), and think that the government is the solution to their problem du jour, and Ron wouldn't have been able to prove that he was right about the economy until after even the general election.

I voted Barr to tell the pirates that I didn't like their system, but you're really calling the kettle black on this, as who was it that ruined a 4-party bloc sponsored by Ron Paul that had simple planks to market to the population? Oh yeah - (loser) Bob Barr, who decided the morning of the event that he didn't want to associate with losers.

Face it: 100+ million people still would have voted for Obama if Paul (or even your hero Barr) had the Republican nomination and had ran a perfect campaign.

[Akus]

Face it: 100+ million people still would have voted for Obama if Paul (or even your hero Barr) had the Republican nomination and had ran a perfect campaign.Bob Barr is not "my hero". I voted for the Party more then I voted for him.

And I believe that if it were Ron Paul vs. Obama, Ron would have beat him or, at worst, would come a razor thin second.

[Arklatex]

The problem is people like yourself left.

[pcosmar]

Bob Barr is not "my hero". I voted for the Party more then I voted for him.

.

That in itself was a huge problem.

Ron Paul stated many times that his chances for winning were slim, and that it was not expected.
I still believe that the purpose was a "wake up" and education.
That was accomplished.

Had he won, all his efforts would have been neutered by the very party that was against him from the beginning.
The GOP actions since have made that clear.

[kahless]

That in itself was a huge problem.

Ron Paul stated many times that his chances for winning were slim, and that it was not expected.
I still believe that the purpose was a "wake up" and education.
That was accomplished.

Had he won, all his efforts would have been neutered by the very party that was against him from the beginning.
The GOP actions since have made that clear.

This is why I wished he had run as a Libertarian. We need the ignorant sheep to win the next election and it will be a tough road to do so in re-educating them with a liberty candidate under the Republican brand. You may be able to re-educate the neocon followers but it is the people on the left, independents that will be the problem simply because of the "Republican" label.

I am afraid no matter what we do the Neocons will be highlighted in the media and everyone else marginalized.

[LibertyEagle]

This is why I wished he had run as a Libertarian. We need the ignorant sheep to win the next election and it will be next to impossible to do so in re-educating them with a liberty candidate under the Republican brand. You may be able to re-educate the neocon followers but it is the people on the left, independents that will be the problem simply because of the "Republican" label.

I am afraid no matter what we do the Neocons will be highlighted in the media and everyone else marginalized.

Well, the Libertarians get about zero media coverage, so I fail to see how anyone could believe that it would've helped for him to run as a Libertarian. Besides, a lot of people are absolutely turned off by what some Libertarians see as leading issues; staying stoned and kiddie porn.

[acptulsa]

Well, the Libertarians get about zero media coverage, so I fail to see how anyone could believe that it would've helped for him to run as a Libertarian.

Me, too. He was excluded from a debate or two as it was. Do you not realize how much difference that made, and how many people noticed this little sleight of hand? Is he a Republican running for president or is he not? If so, you say he's a kook but you won't let him be heard so we can judge for ourselves? Is he a Republican or not? Does the party have a primary or a 'smoke filled room'? If he's so silly, why won't you let us have a good laugh at him too?

No one expects Libertarian Party candidates to be included in debates, and no one questions it when they aren't.

[gls]

Well, the Libertarians get about zero media coverage, so I fail to see how anyone could believe that it would've helped for him to run as a Libertarian. Besides, a lot of people are absolutely turned off by what some Libertarians see as leading issues; staying stoned and kiddie porn.

I gave up on the LP a long time ago but this is a pretty lame attack. I'm much more turned off by what most Republicans see as leading issues; perpetuating mass murder overseas and installing a police state at home.

[LibertyEagle]

I gave up on the LP a long time ago but this is a pretty lame attack. I'm much more turned off by what most Republicans see as leading issues; perpetuating mass murder overseas and installing a police state at home.

I'm turned off by ALL of them. I don't think we can glorify any of them and to me, that was what the poster was trying to do. Political parties are just tools/vehicles and if we are smart about it, we can use them to achieve our goals.

[MelissaWV]

Personally, I have observed a great many things wrong and right with the forum and the campaign(s) in general. Most of them are not unique to this group of people.

What happened? There were some genuinely good people with bad ideas. There were some genuinely bad people with good ideas (who then used those good ideas to steal money or co-opt supporters to other causes/ventures). There were some good people with good ideas who encountered bad circumstances. There were good people, with good ideas, and ideal circumstances... who found themselves catering to a cause that had already tapped out giving money to all the previously mentioned people.

There were people with more time on their hands than others, who felt that rather than do anything at all, it might be better to put people down and dig up subjects of marginal interest. There are people who would rather point fingers than use them to plug the ever-expanding army of holes in the fight for liberty.

There were brother, sister, cousin, etc., projects that spun off and never quite took off. There were kooky projects whose supporters got offended when the project was called kooky, and they marched off to do their own thing. There are people who threaten one another, without realizing it's pointless to challenge someone to a fistfight these days, because you'll both be arrested as terrorists.

There are some who are still around, but more than a bit depressed at the political process they had set out so happily to change in the beginning. There are those organizing projects, and working so hard that their posts are few and far between, and drowned out by other subjects.

There is, of course, the change in the forum format. This is not strictly "Ron Paul Forums" anymore. Many of the posts pertain to current events. This might be the Metro crash, or the death of a celebrity, or a weather phenomenon. When there are more subjects, there are more conspiracies. When things were more or less all political, the theories centered around the politics and the people involved in it. For example, the Metro crash thing spawned all kinds of theories that the wreck was caused to cover the murder of someone on board. That spun, and spun, and spun, and simply would not die.

Some people are out of time and money, and are doing the equivalent of looking away from the computer and blinking, adjusting their vision before looking back. It isn't everyone's 100% career. Times are tough and working to make a few extra FRN's (if they're so utterly worthless already, I will be happy to take yours, by the way).

Freedom movements are very much like the tide coming in. A little... a little more... but between every bigger reach up the sand, there's an ebbing. A wave comes in, reaches, contracts, retreats, but then what's left of that wave is joined by another, and another, and another, until there's that high tide mark.

Those that are left will have even more support next time, and the lessons of this campaign (and damn there are many). People know they're unhappy. They just don't know what can actually be done about it, and many are still too lazy to want to do anything at all. That's the ripest time for education.

This is what's left on here. Keeping things alive and keeping rational debate going is important, no matter what the subject. That's my $0.02 anyhow.

[Brian4Liberty]

I`ll take an Obama conspiracy theorist over a high and mighty asswipe any given day.

I don't know if this is what the OP was talking about, but we should try to stay civil...


http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=58&postcount=1

The forum guidelines are as follows:

...
+ Insulting or personally attacking other users is not allowed by any member. There is very little tolerance for violations, particular for new members. Reason: Insults lead to relational which often result in disruption, which dilute the resources of members and the intent of the forum.

+ Any form of antagonizing other members is not allowed by non-established members.

+ If you are to be critical of another users ideas or message please do so in a respectful manner. It is possible to discuss your points as to why you feel the way you do, ideally you should include alternate suggestions or acknowledge you have none.
...

[Ninja Homer]

...and WTF.

What the hell happened to this place. Can any old timer explain to me when the hell this became a clearing house for:

For the most part I agree with you, but I think there was a good reason for it, and I think RPF will get going again as it used to in the next few months.

There just wasn't much to do after the election, so the action slowed down and it became more of a debate forum. Trolls were allowed to run amok, and the content has deteriorated quite a bit. For the most part I just ignored them, but if it helps, think of them as grinding stones you can use to sharpen your axe.

As we approach the 2010 elections, I expect that the moderators will grow more firm in their resolve. At least a couple of the most active trolls were banned just in the last week.

Stick around and you'll see a transformation. Help turn this back into a forum of action rather than debate, and help put the LOVE back in: http://www.radioactiveliberty.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/ron_paul_revolution.jpg

[AbolishTheGovt]

...and WTF.

What the hell happened to this place. Can any old timer explain to me when the hell this became a clearing house for:

- Anarchists


A lot of the old-timers became "anarchists," including myself (I used to be "aspiringconstitutionalist" before getting a new account after deciding the monicker didn't fit me any more), because they realized that the State is a really dumb idea.

[Flash]

- Anti-social Politics

?


- Anarchists

They're smart and I welcome them here. If we only except purist Libertarians then this would be a much smaller board.


- Obama Conspiracy Theorists

I don't know what you mean by this. It's pretty much confirmed Obama is a tyrant, see my sig.

[amy31416]

Go hang out and post on a liberal or conservative forum, RPF is far better, even with all it's flaws.

[angelatc]

A lot of the old-timers became "anarchists," including myself (I used to be "aspiringconstitutionalist" before getting a new account after deciding the monicker didn't fit me any more), because they realized that the State is a really dumb idea.

You don't belong here if you don't support Ron Paul's concept of a constitutionally limited government.

[MsDoodahs]

I'm anarchist.

:)

[CCTelander]

go hang out and post on a liberal or conservative forum, rpf is far better, even with all it's flaws.

qft

[tremendoustie]

You don't belong here if you don't support Ron Paul's concept of a constitutionally limited government.

B.S.

Anyone belongs here who believes in liberty and is willing to work to achieve it. Lots of voluntaryists, etc, supported RP during the campaign, and continue to do so.

[angelatc]

B.S.

Anyone belongs here who believes in liberty and is willing to work to achieve it. Lots of voluntaryists, etc, supported RP during the campaign, and continue to do so.

That makes as much sense to me as the Christians who enthusiastically support the Jews.

[tremendoustie]

That makes as much sense to me as the Christians who enthusiastically support the Jews.

Think about it this way, suppose you were an abolitionist in the early 19th century, and a popular politician were campaigning to reduce slave labor to a maximum of one day a month. Would you support them? Of course!

RP wants people to be far more free than they are now, and I support that goal 100%. Once we get to the kind of government RP is currently proposing, perhaps he'll keep pushing for more liberty -- I know I will. I'm surely not going to reject the guy who wants to make people 95% free because he might not agree with me on the last 5%. These days, we need all the liberty fighters we can get ...

[torchbearer]

I don't mind anarchist as long as they're activist.
the people i can't stand are those who come here to mock other people's activism.

[__27__]

That makes as much sense to me as the Christians who enthusiastically support the Jews.

And a "liberty" loving person telling others they aren't welcome somewhere makes about as much sense as a screen door on a submarine.

[tremendoustie]

I don't mind anarchist as long as they're activist.
the people i can't stand are those who come here to mock other people's activism.

+1 to that. I am a much bigger fan of constitutionalists that get active for liberty than "anarchists" who disparage the efforts of others.

[torchbearer]

the way I look at it... the differences between libertarians/constitutionalist/an-caps/minarchist/anarchist don't even matter with our current political climate.
I look forward to the day our differences actually matter!
I will work with all of the above because they are all pulling government in the right direction.

[tremendoustie]

the way I look at it... the differences between libertarians/constitutionalist/an-caps/minarchist/anarchist don't even matter with our current political climate.
I look forward to the day our differences actually matter!
I will work with all of the above because they are all pulling government in the right direction.

Exactly right!

[__27__]

the way i look at it... The differences between libertarians/constitutionalist/an-caps/minarchist/anarchist don't even matter with our current political climate.
I look forward to the day our differences actually matter!
I will work with all of the above because they are all pulling government in the right direction.

+2012

;)

[Sayzak]

...and WTF.

What the hell happened to this place. Can any old timer explain to me when the hell this became a clearing house for:

- Anti-social Politics
- Middle School Mock Debates
- Anarchists
- Obama Conspiracy Theorists

When I was last active here, this forum was about a group of people comitted to changing hearts and minds, to educating and enlightening, no matter what the nation did. A group dedicated to organized, sensible action on things which actually yield results.

And now...

:eek:



It's like someone went out and signed up all their "fight the man" 16 year old cousins... what happened to reasoned debate and organized purpose?

:(

Ron Paul would be ashamed... we've become impotent at our stated purpose.



Relax, most of the people who are serious about making a difference went over to C4L and signed up. It's far more organized than this place, and it brings it to a local level.

[Young Paleocon]

As far as the ancaps are concerned, it seems that RP's advocacy for people to learn austrian economics would lead many in the movement to do so and thus come to the logical conclusion of libertarianism. Though I differ with many ancaps as far as political activism is concerned, it must be realized that they provide a lot of intellectual firepower for the movement...if they participate :).

[parke]

...and WTF.

What the hell happened to this place. Can any old timer explain to me when the hell this became a clearing house for:

- Anti-social Politics
- Middle School Mock Debates
- Anarchists
- Obama Conspiracy Theorists

When I was last active here, this forum was about a group of people comitted to changing hearts and minds, to educating and enlightening, no matter what the nation did. A group dedicated to organized, sensible action on things which actually yield results.

And now...

:eek:

It's like someone went out and signed up all their "fight the man" 16 year old cousins... what happened to reasoned debate and organized purpose?

:(

Ron Paul would be ashamed... we've become impotent at our stated purpose.

----
Funny.. today is the first time in a long time Ive been here. I still hit up DP.. daily. Only because of the ease of use.

Paul would not be ashamed. I believe he says to respect what another person does with their freedom.

:cool:

[specsaregood]

----
Funny.. today is the first time in a long time Ive been here. I still hit up DP.. daily. Only because of the ease of use.

Paul would not be ashamed. I believe he says to respect what another person does with their freedom.

:cool:

Welcome back. Have you told all your contacts about the Rand Paul moneybomb? Looking for ways to spread the word? We have opportunities open....

[Jaykzo]

I've been here since the beginning, been a part of all the moneybombs, still rock the Ron Paul 2008 bumper sticker.

I visit this forum waaaaaaaay less than I used to for the reason that the original poster had mentioned. The climate that used to permeate these forums was one of a mission- go educate and inform the people, band together, and let our ideas be known. The climate that his since moved in is one that is much more focused on anger and mudslinging, the focus of educating the public seems to have been lost. I realized fully that this place was not what it used to be when members here originally started having the "birther" discussion. I was accused of being an Obama shill for posting links that clearly disproved that allegations being made in the thread. Not by just one member, but by many.

I joined this site to have rational political discussion, and to be able to talk to like-minded individuals. That became harder and harder to do.

However I still visit the Daily Paul every single day to get my outside-of-the-mainstream news, and of course I check up here about once a week to see what the progress is on stuff like Rand and Peter Schiff's campaigns. I just hope these guys are brilliant enough to ignite this country yet again, and in turn, reverse this forum back to what it once was