The GOP might do just as well letting Kokesh go for it

[disorderlyvision]

http://insidethecapitol.blogspot.com/2009/08/8-17-denish-on-ballot-could-help-teague.html


By JAY MILLER
Syndicated Columnist

SANTA FE -- Rep. Harry Teague may be helped in his effort to retain his 2nd Congressional District seat by having Lt. Gov. Diane Denish on the ticket with him.
Denish grew up in Hobbs and still seems to consider it home base. Her father was Jack Daniels, a leading member of the business community and a state representative.

Denish spent time in Farmington before moving to Albuquerque and starting a business. She also maintains a place in Hillsboro, NM. She seems especially interested in maintaining rural ties and assisting in rural economic development.
Denish was a strong supporter of Teague in both the primary and general elections last year. If her chances look as good a year from now as they do at present, she may be able to give his campaign a boost similar to that which Teague received from the national Democratic Party last year.
Teague will need as many factors going for him as possible. All indications are that he and fellow Hobbs resident, former Rep. Steve Pearce, will wage quite a battle next year.

Last week I received a call from a reporter with a leading Capitol Hill publication asking if I thought Pearce might be old news back home. I told her it was more like big news.

I said it didn't appear district voters felt deserted by Pearce when he ran for the U.S. Senate last year. A large portion of southern voters were pleased to have a strong conservative seeking to replace Sen. Pete Domenici.

Both parties' congressional campaign committees already are going all out to support these candidates. Both committees have been sending news releases from Washington. to New Mexico media.

Steve Terrell of the Santa Fe New Mexican reports that The Hill newspaper says the National Republican Congressional Committee has named Pearce and 1st Congressional District candidate Jon Barela as two of the party's 13 "Young Guns."
The selections demonstrate how important New Mexico is to House Republicans but Pearce, who will turn 62 later this month, and Barela, 49, don't fit the image established by the teenage Billy the Kid and his pals in movies of the same name.
Actually, this is a training program to help non-incumbent GOP congressional candidates. The candidates must demonstrate a base of support, develop a media messaging plan and show they are capable of raising enough money to get their message out.

Pearce did well in all three categories while winning the district three times but any extra help will always be appreciated, I'm sure.

Ironically, the one Republican running at this point in the 3rd Congressional District, Adam Kokesh, is 27 and an ex-Marine. He also does well in all three campaigning categories. But Kokesh is a Ron Paul style libertarian who will not always follow the Republican party line.

Besides, Republicans have a very difficult time winning the 3rd district. They may find a more traditional Republican candidate to run but the person will not receive the national support enjoyed by GOP candidates in the other two districts.
Dan East, who represented the party in 2008, is a possibility in the 3rd district. He ran a great race in 2008 to secure the GOP nomination but staff problems and a strong effort by Ben Ray Lujan won the district for Democrats.

The GOP might do just as well letting Kokesh go for it. He's full of energy, a good speaker and already has used the Ron Paul Internet techniques to get a good start on a campaign war chest. Rep. Paul has endorsed Kokesh and shared his vast national mailing list.

Kokesh has appeared often with the Texas congressman and is in demand as a speaker on libertarian topics nationally. It is rumored that Paul, 74, may be about ready to retire and that Kokesh is likely to assume his mantle as the leading national voice of libertarianism.
MON, 8-17-09

[rp08orbust]

It is rumored that Paul, 74, may be about ready to retire...

Mkay.

[anaconda]

GOP=Military/Industrial Complex=Kokesh BAD

[He Who Pawns]

It is rumored that Paul, 74, may be about ready to retire and that Kokesh is likely to assume his mantle as the leading national voice of libertarianism.

Hahahaha. Best laugh I've had all week.

[Matt Collins]

Hahahaha. Best laugh I've had all week.
Yeah really... whoever wrote the article doesn't know much about the liberty movement apparently.



But regarding Adam's race, if the GOP doesn't think they can win that district, then they will just ignore it and let the low-ballers fight it out. That can be good for Adam of course because he can most likely beat any other non-establishment Republican in the primary. If he doesn't have to put up a fight in the primary then he can save his money for the general. He might have a fighting chance if he keeps his money intact and has xover appeal.

[Njon]

Dr. Paul about the retire? Hopefully we'll be inaugurating him in about 3.5 years from now.

[He Who Pawns]

Lol, Matt. What does it matter if Kokesh can win a non-existent primary, if he has ZERO chance of winning in the general? Why don't you google the demographics of that district, and then tell us how Kokesh is going to have even a 1% chance of winning. This whole "campaign" is nothing but an adventure in vanity by Kokesh, at the expense of our movement overall.

And again, even if hell froze over, and somehow Kokesh had even a 5% chance of winning, Democrats would only need to make one call to the IRS to get him thrown into jail, so this whole thing his a joke.

Our efforts should be concentrated on Rand and Peter, not this clown.

[t0rnado]

Ron Paul Internet techniques

Hahaha what the fuck.

[dr. hfn]

Hahahaha. Best laugh I've had all week.

he is a great leader. shut it pwns.

[Epic]

Ron Paul has announced that he's running for re-election in 2010, so what are these rumors?

Anyway, Adam Kokesh would be a great leader for the movement, and fortunately he has some help with Rand and Schiff. Too bad Adam has such a tough race.

[He Who Pawns]

he is a great leader. shut it pwns.

In that case, maybe he should get a job. I hear they need "leaders" at McDonalds right now, rather than draining hard-earned money from people in this movement for a useless vanity run for congress.

Has Kokesh ever even had a job? Or has he been living off his parents and the federal government all his life?

[nayjevin]

This whole "campaign" is nothing but an adventure in vanity... at the expense of our movement overall.

Look in a mirror dood.

[dr. hfn]

Lol, Matt. What does it matter if Kokesh can win a non-existent primary, if he has ZERO chance of winning in the general? Why don't you google the demographics of that district, and then tell us how Kokesh is going to have even a 1% chance of winning. This whole "campaign" is nothing but an adventure in vanity by Kokesh, at the expense of our movement overall.

And again, even if hell froze over, and somehow Kokesh had even a 5% chance of winning, Democrats would only need to make one call to the IRS to get him thrown into jail, so this whole thing his a joke.

Our efforts should be concentrated on Rand and Peter, not this clown.

A Republican was in office in the 3rd as recently as 1999. The last general election was 57% to 30%, dems won. 13% voted independent. If you combine the Repub vot with the Ind. vote then u get 43% which is close to 57%. Kokesh appeals to left snd right so I'd say the race would be up for grabs and close. Plus with the support of the Ron Paul machine and grassroots plus Freedom's Phoenix and other activists then I'd say he can definitely win.

[dr. hfn]

In that case, maybe he should get a job. I hear they need "leaders" at McDonalds right now, rather than draining hard-earned money from people in this movement for a useless vanity run for congress.

Has Kokesh ever even had a job? Or has he been living off his parents and the federal government all his life?

he was in fucking iraq dipshit!

[MR2Fast2Catch]

This whole "campaign" is nothing but an adventure in vanity by Kokesh, at the expense of our movement overall.
Look in a mirror dood.

:D

[RM918]

he was in fucking iraq dipshit!

I believe that's the point he's making, that anyone who'd join the military is clearly an imbecile. While I do agree that the adventurism and authoritarianism that's cropping up along those lines has been a big problem for years, I don't agree with the arrogance being tossed around. This sort of outright dismissal of someone is smacking of shit I heard in the GOP primary in '08 from Bushies, and it's rather disappointing to see it here.

[TinCanToNA]

I believe that's the point he's making, that anyone who'd join the military is clearly an imbecile. While I do agree that the adventurism and authoritarianism that's cropping up along those lines has been a big problem for years, I don't agree with the arrogance being tossed around. This sort of outright dismissal of someone is smacking of shit I heard in the GOP primary in '08 from Bushies, and it's rather disappointing to see it here.

Speaking of disappointment... your first sentence is clearly an indication of your own imbecility.

[acptulsa]

Hell of a flame war.

I'm not in favor of putting all of our eggs in the Kokesh basket. But I don't see why he wouldn't be allowed the liberty to run.

And I don't mind terribly if tptb think Ron Paul is going to retire. They might keep pointing cameras at him if they do.

[disorderlyvision]

I believe that's the point he's making, that anyone who'd join the military is clearly an imbecile. .

I clearly remember HeWhoYawns saying he was a military man...

[disorderlyvision]

Hell of a flame war.




If you notice, HeWhoYawns, does this in every single thread about kokesh. He has been trying to sabotage his campaign from the get go. I should start hijacking every Schiff thread and slam him, because apparently the mods do not care that this goes on.

[He Who Pawns]

I clearly remember HeWhoYawns saying he was a military man...

Yes I was on the federal government and US Army payroll for a few years. But then I actually went out and got a job, unlike Kokesh. As far as I know, Kokesh has never had a job or career in the free market. And let's remember that Kokesh got busted down in rank while a Marine for trying to smuggle a weapon out of Iraq.

We need accomplished people like Peter Schiff and Rand Paul running, not egomaniacs like Kokesh who have been living off the government and their parents.

[specsaregood]

As far as I know, Kokesh has never had a job or career in the free market.

Then why are you so sure that the IRS could stop his campaign with a single phone call?

[He Who Pawns]

Then why are you so sure that the IRS could stop his campaign with a single phone call?

Because Kokesh stated that he's been doing "freelance graphic design" and collecting fees for "speaking." If those amounted to more than $500, and he didn't file, he's guilty of tax evasion under federal law.

[specsaregood]

Because Kokesh stated that he's been doing "freelance graphic design" and collecting fees for "speaking." If those amounted to more than $500, and he didn't file, he's guilty of tax evasion under federal law.

Those sound like jobs in the freemarket, though. Doesn't that dispute your previous statement?:confused:

[He Who Pawns]

I'm talking about a real job.

[specsaregood]

I'm talking about a real job.

You mean wage slave? Because doing freelance graphic design is real work. You don't think being a self-employed individual is a "job" or doing graphic design is a "job"? Not to mention I'd consider getting paid for speaking engagements a job it takes time and energy and preparation, is being a media talking head a "job"?

[Matt Collins]

Lol, Matt. What does it matter if Kokesh can win a non-existent primary, if he has ZERO chance of winning in the general? Why don't you google the demographics of that district, and then tell us how Kokesh is going to have even a 1% chance of winning. This whole "campaign" is nothing but an adventure in vanity by Kokesh, at the expense of our movement overall.

And again, even if hell froze over, and somehow Kokesh had even a 5% chance of winning, Democrats would only need to make one call to the IRS to get him thrown into jail, so this whole thing his a joke.

Our efforts should be concentrated on Rand and Peter, not this clown.I would tend to agree with you to an extent, but you should be less rude about it.


We should go after the low hanging fruit, and I see that as being Rand's run for US Senate (I admit I'm biased however). Any objective look I would think would show that Rand has the best chance for success if everything is done right.

And Kokesh might have a chance if he does everything right. His opponent (assuming he wins the primary) is a freshman I think.

[He Who Pawns]

What does it matter if the guy is a freshman? The district is completely stacked. Not to mention, AGAIN, that Kokesh is a federal tax protester, which makes him 100% inviable as a congressional candidate. How many times do I have to repeat myself before it sinks in?

As for Rand vs Schiff, we have already seen that Peter can raise truckloads of money, BEFORE even announcing. Not to mention that Peter can pump millions of dollars of his own money into the race, unlike Rand. Plus, to top it all off, Dodd is extremely vulnerable and will attract huge amounts of GOP cash.

So your statement that Rand is the lowest-hanging fruit is not necessarily true. But Peter and Rand are our top priorities.

[specsaregood]

Not to mention, AGAIN, that Kokesh is a federal tax protester, which makes him 100% inviable as a congressional candidate.

So that is the argument you are going to go with then? Not the "he's never had a job" line? Good, stick with one.



Not to mention that Peter can pump millions of dollars of his own money into the race, unlike Rand.

I doubt Schiff is prepared to dump millions of dollars into his own campaign. He hasn't given any indication of that and I just can't see it, afterall he had to actually work for that money. Also, repeating that will probably hurt his fundraising numbers, the fact that Mitt was uber-rich certainly didnt' help his fundraising.



But Peter and Rand are our top priorities.
I havent' seen ANYBODY here dispute that. What I take objection to --and it seems other do as well -- is the fact that you want to jump on any kokesh thread to simply bash him. Like him or not, support him or not, he had RP's endorsement, is a great public speaker and has support even outside the main Ron Paul grassroots network. If you don't like him, so be it; but that doesn't mean you have to try your best to destroy any support he does have. I for one would like to see a "tax protester" get the Republican nomination and would like to see one elected to office even more so.

[Matt Collins]

As for Rand vs Schiff, we have already seen that Peter can raise truckloads of money, BEFORE even announcing. Not to mention that Peter can pump millions of dollars of his own money into the race, unlike Rand. Plus, to top it all off, Dodd is extremely vulnerable and will attract huge amounts of GOP cash.

So your statement that Rand is the lowest-hanging fruit is not necessarily true. But Peter and Rand are our top priorities.I would still say that Rand has a better chance than Schiff simply because of a conservative running in a conservative state vs a conservative running in a liberal state against a very well recognizable incumbent.

[acptulsa]

I for one would like to see a "tax protester" get the Republican nomination and would like to see one elected to office even more so.

What--that seems more honest to you than all of the 'Democratic tax protesters' we have in the Cabinet right now, telling us how patriotic it is to pay taxes? Why, whatever could be disingenuous about that?

[disorderlyvision]

So your statement that Rand is the lowest-hanging fruit is not necessarily true. But Peter and Rand are our top priorities.

correction they are YOUR top priorities. FUCK OFF

[He Who Pawns]

disorder, why don't you move to NM and you and Kokesh can drive around the state in his Dad's RV wasting our limited resources as a movement, just to increase his vanity and ego. Just pray the RV does't get repo'd mid campaign.

Am I the only one who senses some ****-erotic support for Kokesh? I don't know what else explains this blind, delusional support, flying in the face of all evidence, logic and reason. I notice that a lot of male Kokesh supporters say, "I met Adam and I think he's awesome..." etc. It sounds very GAY to me.

[No1ButPaul08]

As for Rand vs Schiff, we have already seen that Peter can raise truckloads of money, BEFORE even announcing. Not to mention that Peter can pump millions of dollars of his own money into the race, unlike Rand. Plus, to top it all off, Dodd is extremely vulnerable and will attract huge amounts of GOP cash.

So your statement that Rand is the lowest-hanging fruit is not necessarily true. But Peter and Rand are our top priorities.


I would still say that Rand has a better chance than Schiff simply because of a conservative running in a conservative state vs a conservative running in a liberal state against a very well recognizable incumbent.

I would say Rand probably has a slightly better chance of winning although I think a Schiff win would be bigger.

[acptulsa]

Am I the only one who senses some ****-erotic support for Kokesh? I don't know what else explains this blind, delusional support, flying in the face of all evidence, logic and reason. I notice that a lot of male Kokesh supporters say, "I met Adam and I think he's awesome..." etc. It sounds very GAY to me.

Do you really think you're strengthening your position by clutching at these straws?

[He Who Pawns]

My arguments are already rock-solid and beyond any dispute. At this point, I am simply trying to figure what is causing these Kokesh dead-enders to continue on, in spite of overwhelming evidence showing that Kokesh is not viable.

I think it's very similar to all the Republican men who supported Plain, just out of lust. My guess is that many of Kokesh's most "devoted" male followers are homosexuals or bi-sexuals. If you notice, nearly all of them will say, "I met Adam at ______ and I am devoted to him...." etc.

It's the only thing that can explain this illogical behavior. Are any Kokesh male followers willing to admit a sexual attraction to him? Yes or no?

[ronpaulhawaii]

disorder, why don't you move to NM and you and Kokesh can drive around the state in his Dad's RV wasting our limited resources as a movement, just to increase his vanity and ego. Just pray the RV does't get repo'd mid campaign.

Am I the only one who senses some ****-erotic support for Kokesh? I don't know what else explains this blind, delusional support, flying in the face of all evidence, logic and reason. I notice that a lot of male Kokesh supporters say, "I met Adam and I think he's awesome..." etc. It sounds very GAY to me.

Gay bashing now? - bye bye

[specsaregood]

Gay bashing now? - bye bye

Thanks, I was holding my tongue, resisting the urge to lash out.....glad I did.

[Flash]

I just realized that user joined the boards in 09. He definently had to be a troll.

[No1ButPaul08]

Gay bashing now? - bye bye

Wondering if people are gay is not gay bashing, and hardly worth a banning.

And although I agree with HWP with regards to Kokesh's candidacy, he should probably just let them do their thing at this point.

[ronpaulhawaii]

Wondering if people are gay is not gay bashing, and hardly worth a banning.

How is sexual orientation relevant in any way to the discussion? It was just HWP pushing buttons as he always does. I was not able to watch this forum very closely for the last few months but am absolutely sick of timewasters like HWP derailing our trains.

Perhaps I'll have to reset my tagline to say "tyrant" ;) but everyone should be aware that my tolerance of timewasters is at an all time low. We are entering the next phase of the r3VOLution and we have no time to waste. It was all well and fine entertaining frivolous debate during the lull. Now I am focused on winning as much ground during the 2010 cycle as possible

LEAD, FOLLOW, or GET OUT OF THE WAY

:mad:

[acptulsa]

Wondering if people are gay is not gay bashing, and hardly worth a banning.

Insults and repetitive, spamlike posting, however, always have resulted in bans on this forum. And, no, I'm not talking about wondering if people are gay when I say insults, though that has certainly gotten a few asses kicked over the years...

[disorderlyvision]

banned...:D enjoy your time off troll

[ClayTrainor]

How is sexual orientation relevant in any way to the discussion? It was just HWP pushing buttons as he always does. I was not able to watch this forum very closely for the last few months but am absolutely sick of timewasters like HWP derailing our trains.

Perhaps I'll have to reset my tagline to say "tyrant" ;) but everyone should be aware that my tolerance of timewasters is at an all time low. We are entering the next phase of the r3VOLution and we have no time to waste. It was all well and fine entertaining frivolous debate during the lull. Now I am focused on winning as much ground during the 2010 cycle as possible

LEAD, FOLLOW, or GET OUT OF THE WAY

:mad:

Glad to have you back, brother! :cool:

Is HWP perma, or temp?

[ronpaulhawaii]

Glad to have you back, brother! :cool:

Is HWP perma, or temp?

It's good to finally be getting off my ass - haha - :D

Temp till past the 2010 cycle...

[No1ButPaul08]

How is sexual orientation relevant in any way to the discussion? It was just HWP pushing buttons as he always does.

It's not, and I also agree HWP's button pushing is excessive, however, I do believe he is a worthwhile poster.


I was not able to watch this forum very closely for the last few months but am absolutely sick of timewasters like HWP derailing our trains.

That's funny, because for the most part (especially with regards to Kokesh's candidacy), HWP is trying to get people to stop wasting their time. He believe's Kokesh's candidacy is a farce, and anyone using their time and money on it is wasting both. I happen to agree with that sentiment. I will say he should lay-off the name calling, and with regards to Kokesh's candidacy, move on at this point.

[acptulsa]

I will say he should lay-off the name calling, and with regards to Kokesh's candidacy, move on at this point.

Well, you got your wish. Too bad the man didn't grant it himself, but he seemed obsessed with beating that horse's carcass instead.

[Matt Collins]

The things he said were not necessarily invalid, it's how it said them. He needs to learn to lay off the personal attacks.

[No1ButPaul08]

It's good to finally be getting off my ass - haha - :D

Temp till past the 2010 cycle...

A temporary ban for a year and a half? That seems kind of silly.

[torchbearer]

A temporary ban for a year and a half? That seems kind of silly.

Yeah, don't go half-ass. Make it permanent. ;) :p

[ronpaulhawaii]

It's not, and I also agree HWP's button pushing is excessive, however, I do believe he is a worthwhile poster.

Honey, honey, poison...


That's funny, because for the most part (especially with regards to Kokesh's candidacy), HWP is trying to get people to stop wasting their time. He believe's Kokesh's candidacy is a farce, and anyone using their time and money on it is wasting both. I happen to agree with that sentiment. I will say he should lay-off the name calling, and with regards to Kokesh's candidacy, move on at this point.That's not funny, fact is that this is one the same kind of talking points the shills used to marginalize RP. The logical conclusion of the argument is that we should not support anyone unless everyone agrees they "have a chance". That is such BS on so many levels, especially around a bunch of people who supported Ron Paul in 2008. If there was ever a candidate who didn't stand a chance, RP was it. The fact remains that we are now poised to turn the tide in this r3VOLution, because of our support of an impossible race. Fact is Adam has a much better chance than RP ever had. He may be a long shot, he may be edgy, but all movements have edges. Running one shows courage in the face of overwhelming odds.


The things he said were not necessarily invalid, it's how it said them. He needs to learn to lay off the personal attacks.

HWP has been a PITA since he showed up and the only thing he seemed to be learning here was how better to stir up shit.


A temporary ban for a year and a half? That seems kind of silly.

Not at all, it sucks having to ban people to begin with...

:mad:

moving on...

[No1ButPaul08]

Honey, honey, poison...

No idea what this means



That's not funny, fact is that this is one the same kind of talking points the shills used to marginalize RP. The logical conclusion of the argument is that we should not support anyone unless everyone agrees they "have a chance". That is such BS on so many levels, especially around a bunch of people who supported Ron Paul in 2008. If there was ever a candidate who didn't stand a chance, RP was it. The fact remains that we are now poised to turn the tide in this r3VOLution, because of our support of an impossible race. Fact is Adam has a much better chance than RP ever had. He may be a long shot, he may be edgy, but all movements have edges. Running one shows courage in the face of overwhelming odds.

Trying to compare a Presidential race to a Congressional race is silly. There is 1 Presidential race, and RP got in the debates, so it made his run worthwhile. On the other hand, there are 100 senate seats and 435 Reps. With limited amounts of resources ($ and volunteers), WE NEED TO PICK OUR SPOTS. Of course, each person ultimately needs to decide for themselves how they should use their personal resources. That doesn't mean there shouldn't be debate about how people think the resources should be used. Nor should there be any name calling if people don't use their resources how you would like.

[dr. hfn]

Thank the Gods he's gone! Woohoo!

[ronpaulhawaii]

Trying to compare a Presidential race to a Congressional race is silly. There is 1 Presidential race, and RP got in the debates, so it made his run worthwhile. On the other hand, there are 100 senate seats and 435 Reps. With limited amounts of resources ($ and volunteers), WE NEED TO PICK OUR SPOTS. Of course, each person ultimately needs to decide for themselves how they should use their personal resources. That doesn't mean there shouldn't be debate about how people think the resources should be used. Nor should there be any name calling if people don't use their resources how you would like.

It's the old "don't waste your vote" meme, tailored. A time honored technique of political marginalization in races at all levels.

Fact is that Kokesh is running, and has majority support among the r3VOLution. Ron Paul, BJ Lawson, RJ Harris, etc. have endorsed him, why do some people here think we should ignore them? He is already recieving national press. Why is that?

Trying to derail someone in place seems a waste of time, especially when you state yourself that we have 100's of more spots to fill. Find more candidates and let the market decide.

Finally, to insinuate HWPs behavior as "debate" is laughable...

[RM918]

Resolved.

[FSP-Rebel]

Lol at banning HWP.

[MR2Fast2Catch]

Thank you for finally banning He Who Pawns! It's fine that his opinion is that we shouldn't support Kokesh, but it's completely unnecessary for him to keep blabbering on in every thread about his hatred for him.

[josh.schisler]

It would be nice if Kokesh could get the nomination with no effort.

sorry for double post . . .

[No1ButPaul08]

It's the old "don't waste your vote" meme, tailored. A time honored technique of political marginalization in races at all levels.

No, it's not. It's the don't waste your time and money principal so you can use valuable resources where races can actually be won.


Fact is that Kokesh is running, and has majority support among the r3VOLution. Ron Paul, BJ Lawson, RJ Harris, etc. have endorsed him, why do some people here think we should ignore them? He is already recieving national press. Why is that?

Endorsements don't equal viability. Ron Paul endorsed Murray Sabrin in the past. Hardly anyone cares who BJ Lawson and RJ Harris endorse.


Trying to derail someone in place seems a waste of time, especially when you state yourself that we have 100's of more spots to fill. Find more candidates and let the market decide.

The first sentence is complete nonsense, and falls within the previous investment trap. Kokesh's whole candidacy is a waste of time. Yes there are 100's more spots to fill (you could actually shut down big government with 40 senators.), but there is very limited resources, which needto be used wisely. Any resources used towards Kokesh's candidacy, takes away resources from IMO, a more worthwhile cause

[dr. hfn]

backstabbers...

[acptulsa]

The first sentence is complete nonsense, and falls within the previous investment trap. Kokesh's whole candidacy is a waste of time. Yes there are 100's more spots to fill (you could actually shut down big government with 40 senators.), but there is very limited resources, which needto be used wisely. Any resources used towards Kokesh's candidacy, takes away resources from IMO, a more worthwhile cause

And if you're in New Mexico and you just want another conversation starter, much as Ron Paul's presidential campaign has done so much to start this conversation nationwide? And if you're misreading the New Mexico voter, and Kokesh's in-your-face conservatism is just the thing at this point in history to strike a chord with them? And if this saps just enough resources from the neocon forces to allow both Schiff and Paul the Younger into the Senate?

And by the way, honey, honey, poison refers to someone who suckers people into caring about their opinion by seeming to care about people, then purposely introduces some disruptive element designed to serve other interests than the people's interests.

[No1ButPaul08]

And if you're in New Mexico and you just want another conversation starter, much as Ron Paul's presidential campaign has done so much to start this conversation nationwide?

We don't need conversation starters, we need candidate's who can win.


And if you're misreading the New Mexico voter, and Kokesh's in-your-face conservatism is just the thing at this point in history to strike a chord with them?

Ha, I highly doubt it. Kokesh supporters love to toss around the fact the current Rep got 57% i the last election. They conveniently leave out the fact there was a independent running who took a lot of votes from the Dem. The GOP candidate got 28%.




And if this saps just enough resources from the neocon forces to allow both Schiff and Paul the Younger into the Senate?


What the fuck are you talking about? Are there even any neocons in that district? This is so completely backwards it's not even funny. The only people this race is going to sap resources from is Schiff and Paul. Any volunteers or donators to Adam could have been doing that for Schiff and Rand.

[acptulsa]

We don't need conversation starters, we need candidate's who can win.

We need to think about the early game, the middle game and the end game. Anything less and we're screwed. Volunteers actually in New Mexico are unlikely to campaign on the eastern seaboard unless they're independently wealthy. An interesting campaign by Kokesh could in some way I can't define yet help pave the way for Gary Johnson to jump back into politics. And Republican vs. Yellow Dog Democrat means a lot less both in the southwest and this year than you seem to think it does.

I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying that there are so many variables in this thing that the conventional equations might not add up as well as you think they will.

I actually appreciate you voicing your reservations. I think you raise valid concerns. But I just don't know if all of the usual tidbits of conventional wisdom apply in this case.

[LittleLightShining]

We need to think about the early game, the middle game and the end game. Anything less and we're screwed. Volunteers actually in New Mexico are unlikely to campaign on the eastern seaboard unless they're independently wealthy. An interesting campaign by Kokesh could in some way I can't define yet help pave the way for Gary Johnson to jump back into politics. And Republican vs. Yellow Dog Democrat means a lot less both in the southwest and this year than you seem to think it does.

I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying that there are so many variables in this thing that the conventional equations might not add up as well as you think they will.

I actually appreciate you voicing your reservations. I think you raise valid concerns. But I just don't know if all of the usual tidbits of conventional wisdom apply in this case.
Unfortunately, no matter how inspired I am by Kokesh, he does have a few skeletons in his closet that have the potential to be campaign killers. I'm not trying to derail or demotivate but this is something that the grassroots need to be aware of so they can make decisions about where to put their financial support.

[acptulsa]

Unfortunately, no matter how inspired I am by Kokesh, he does have a few skeletons in his closet that have the potential to be campaign killers. I'm not trying to derail or demotivate but this is something that the grassroots need to be aware of so they can make decisions about where to put their financial support.

Agreed. And I see no need to spam over it.

New Mexico is a unique and wonderful state. It'll actually be interesting to see how his skeletons play there. But, you know, I do wonder if money will be the deciding factor in a race like that. I'm all for southwesterners volunteering for him with their hands and hearts, but perhaps the money could well be better invested back east.

Well, I've not given to Kokesh myself, though I have given out of state this cycle. And I'll be busy with Brogdon and other local campaigns here. But I'm with you that information is good, and our discretionary spending is dependent on our discretion.

[No1ButPaul08]

I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying that there are so many variables in this thing that the conventional equations might not add up as well as you think they will.

I actually appreciate you voicing your reservations. I think you raise valid concerns. But I just don't know if all of the usual tidbits of conventional wisdom apply in this case.

What it boils down to, I think, is picking your spots wisely. I wish we could run 535 candidates and support them all, but it's just not feasable. What's Kokesh's candidacy amounts to is a fantasy, with very little shot of victory. On the other hand, we have Schiff and Paul, both with real shots at winning a Senate seat. Personally I wish we wouldn't run any House candidates (besides RP of course) and concentrate on these two races. Winning one of these is a gamechanger, not so if Kokesh were to somehow win.

[LittleLightShining]

What it boils down to, I think, is picking your spots wisely. I wish we could run 535 candidates and support them all, but it's just not feasable. What's Kokesh's candidacy amounts to is a fantasy, with very little shot of victory. On the other hand, we have Schiff and Paul, both with real shots at winning a Senate seat. Personally I wish we wouldn't run any House candidates (besides RP of course) and concentrate on these two races. Winning one of these is a gamechanger, not so if Kokesh were to somehow win. +1
Schiff and Rand don't have the baggage that Kokesh has and winning those seats is really vital. They also face tough campaigns where money will be necessary to win. We need some champions of liberty in the senate. I think if we do have folks running for house seats the focus of those campaigns needs to be on educating the people. When Ron Paul ran he didn't expect to win. He wanted to get the message out.

[LibertyEagle]

What it boils down to, I think, is picking your spots wisely. I wish we could run 535 candidates and support them all, but it's just not feasable. What's Kokesh's candidacy amounts to is a fantasy, with very little shot of victory. On the other hand, we have Schiff and Paul, both with real shots at winning a Senate seat. Personally I wish we wouldn't run any House candidates (besides RP of course) and concentrate on these two races. Winning one of these is a gamechanger, not so if Kokesh were to somehow win.

But, you see, that's the thing. WE are not running anyone, or anything. These people chose to run of their own volition. And it is up to each one of us, on our own, whether we choose to support them and which ones we choose to support. Surely, you are not suggesting that the mob decide for all of us, are you?

[specsaregood]

But, you see, that's the thing. WE are not running anyone, or anything. These people chose to run of their own volition. And it is up to each one of us, on our own, whether we choose to support them and which ones we choose to support. Surely, you are not suggesting that the mob decide for all of us, are you?

Besides that, fact is Kokesh has the ability to motivate and get people involved that might not care to about Schiff or Rand. The more people we get involved and the more avenues we use, the better. This thread has inspired me to give him another $25.

[No1ButPaul08]

But, you see, that's the thing. WE are not running anyone, or anything. These people chose to run of their own volition. And it is up to each one of us, on our own, whether we choose to support them and which ones we choose to support. Surely, you are not suggesting that the mob decide for all of us, are you?

No, I said earlier in the this thread (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=2264157&postcount=52) each individual person has to decide how to spend their personal resources. That doesn't mean I'm going to stop encouraging people to focus on these 2 races.

[LibertyEagle]

That doesn't mean I'm going to stop encouraging people to focus on these 2 races.

That's fine, as long as you don't derail someone else's thread in doing so.

[No1ButPaul08]

Besides that, fact is Kokesh has the ability to motivate and get people involved that might not care to about Schiff or Rand. The more people we get involved and the more avenues we use, the better. This thread has inspired me to give him another $20.

To a point yes. This doesn't mean he has run for Congress. With this logic with should just have 535 candidates, because hey, the more the better right. It doesn't always work that way. We need to pick our spots. IMO, this fantasy campaign is not one of them.

[specsaregood]

To a point yes. This doesn't mean he has run for Congress. With this logic with should just have 535 candidates, because hey, the more the better right. It doesn't always work that way. We need to pick our spots. IMO, this fantasy campaign is not one of them.

And at the same time Kokesh already has an existing base of grassroots support seperate from the base of support for Rand and Schiff, due to his anti-war and iraq veterans group work. So he isn't exactly "just anybody" running. He brings his own assets to the movement.

[ClayTrainor]

And at the same time Kokesh already has an existing base of grassroots support seperate from the base of support for Rand and Schiff, due to his anti-war and iraq veterans group work. So he isn't exactly "just anybody" running. He brings his own assets to the movement.

QFT!

Not to mention even Rand admits that he needs to learn a few things from Adam at the end of this video. :)

YouTube - Rand Paul & Adam Kokesh Take Over The Interwebs! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHn72mPyxYY)

[No1ButPaul08]

And at the same time Kokesh already has an existing base of grassroots support seperate from the base of support for Rand and Schiff, due to his anti-war and iraq veterans group work. So he isn't exactly "just anybody" running. He brings his own assets to the movement.

I have never said otherwise. Just because he brings assets doesn't mean he has to run for Congress. Even HWP has said Adam should drop his run and campaign for Schiff and Rand.

The way I see, by Kokesh running for Congress, he isn't bringing assets to the movement, he's taking from them. He's going to spend a bunch of money running an impossible campaign. Think of the net positives he could bring campaigning for these two. Instead, he'll be off in NM running a pointless campaign.

[specsaregood]

Not to mention even Rand admits that he needs to learn a few things from Adam at the end of this video. :)


If every $25 bucks I donate to his campaign pays the gas for him to get to a public speaking event and he is able to inspire or wake-up just a few more people, I consider it money well spent. I think he may surprise in this election, long-shot or not;but I don't know much about his strategy. Esp. with the freedom's phoenix guys obviously helping him out.

[specsaregood]

He's going to spend a bunch of money running an impossible campaign.
For your point to have any relevance, you must first demonstrate that that money he will be spending directly negatively affects Rand or Schiff's fundraising. I'm not convinced it will. In fact, if he is able to inspire and bring more people INTO our movement, those new members may donate to Rand or Schiff whereas they might not have without his campaign.

I'll admit it, I see kokesh's campaign as primarily educational. But so was Ron Paul's own campaign and that "educational campaign" worked wonders.

[disorderlyvision]

Even HWP has said Adam should drop his run and campaign for Schiff and Rand.

Yeah, there is a poster we should all rally behind:rolleyes:


The way I see, by Kokesh running for Congress, he isn't bringing assets to the movement, he's taking from them. He's going to spend a bunch of money running an impossible campaign. Think of the net positives he could bring campaigning for these two. Instead, he'll be off in NM running a pointless campaign.

And what is it exactly you are doing, aside from bitching online about what someone else is doing to fight for liberty.

He is not doing it because it is a "vanity campaign" or because it is a "fantasy"

He is doing it because he is passionate about freedom; something a few of you could learn a lesson about

[No1ButPaul08]

For your point to have any relevance, you must first demonstrate that that money he will be spending directly negatively affects Rand or Schiff's fundraising. I'm not convinced it will. In fact, if he is able to inspire and bring more people INTO our movement, those new members may donate to Rand or Schiff whereas they might not have without his campaign.

A fair point, however, Kokesh doesn't have to run for Congress to bring people into this movement.


I'll admit it, I see kokesh's campaign as primarily educational. But so was Ron Paul's own campaign and that "educational campaign" worked wonders.

Yes, but RP was in a Presidential race, much different that a Congressional race. Adam would do just as well traveling KY and CT and educating the people of those states.

[specsaregood]

A fair point, however, Kokesh doesn't have to run for Congress to bring people into this movement.

Not really. Running for congress gets him access to the media, access to political events, access to debates, all kinds of events that a general issue spokesman does not get access to or does not get the opportunity to speak at. You think the GOP is going to invite him to speak at their events as simply an anti-war guy? I highly doubt it. however as a Republican candidate, they can't really refuse him access.



Yes, but RP was in a Presidential race, much different that a Congressional race. Adam would do just as well traveling KY and CT and educating the people of those states.
You state this as a fact; but have no way of backing it up. I think Schiff and Rand will do just fine educating and waking people up in those states, I don't see how he would be much of an asset at all campaiging in KY or CT. Him campaigning in NM however reaches a whole new audience. Also see my comment above.

[ronpaulhawaii]

Yes, but RP was in a Presidential race, much different that a Congressional race. Adam would do just as well traveling KY and CT and educating the people of those states.

Here you are grasping at straws. You have no clue what kind of outreach and response are going on here. You have no idea of where he would be more effective. And you have no clue of the actual demographics here. The fact remains that until we have many more candidates, it is silly to be culling the herd and pitting our candidate against one another. In fact it is detrimental to the movement as a whole. You find some more candidates with more national recognition and a "better chance" and then let the market decide. Till then you are just causing trouble...

From the guidelines:


+ If you are to be critical of another users ideas or message please do so in a respectful manner. It is possible to discuss your points as to why you feel the way you do, ideally you should include alternate suggestions or acknowledge you have none.


Finally, If you think I will be content with running only 2 federal races, you don't know me. I have no illusions that this campaign will be a cakewalk, but we have tyrants scrambling, we are converting neo-cons, and plan on making Lujan work very hard to retain his seat. That drain on the DNC resources will help other candidates as well. I hope to see 10 federal races this cycle. Until I see at least 10 decent candidates I will question anyone pitting us against ourselves

[disorderlyvision]

Reality has trumped idealism and Adam will be filing tax forms, this may disappoint some but Adam is running a race to win. What you are all witnessing is his transition from activist to candidate. From my understanding he has not made enough to "owe" anything...

HTH...

Good, now maybe people will shut up about the tax BS. As far as I can see that was the only legitimate complaint against him.

[anaconda]

Lol, Matt. What does it matter if Kokesh can win a non-existent primary, if he has ZERO chance of winning in the general? Why don't you google the demographics of that district, and then tell us how Kokesh is going to have even a 1% chance of winning. This whole "campaign" is nothing but an adventure in vanity by Kokesh, at the expense of our movement overall.

And again, even if hell froze over, and somehow Kokesh had even a 5% chance of winning, Democrats would only need to make one call to the IRS to get him thrown into jail, so this whole thing his a joke.

Our efforts should be concentrated on Rand and Peter, not this clown.

Dr. Paul has encouraged everyone to run for office if memory serves. We should welcome and encourage all voices of freedom. I don't see how anyone speaking out about a liberty platform can hurt our movement, unless they divert strategic resources unwisely. There are other ways to be supportive besides money bombs.

[james1906]

I think HWP has the hots for Kokesh, and calling everyone gay for supporting was just him projecting. One can only assume he's lurking on here, so HWP, this is for you:

YouTube - Gang Of Four - I Love A Man In Uniform (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLnIf0JjszY&feature=related)

[RonPaulFanInGA]

Temp till past the 2010 cycle...

It is past the 2010 cycle, why is 'He Who Pawns' still banned? Was one of the forums more entertaining posters. The recent RT firing of Kokesh, and Kokesh's subsequent comments on Benton, were poorer here for the lack of HWP's presence.