So... What's the solution to the insane prices of private health care?

[Reason]

stefbot's videos that I posted here
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=204815 (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=204815)

were very well done in terms of explaining why the govt. option is a bad idea...

BUT...

what's the answer to the insane price increases every year for private healthcare?

I posted this question on stefbot's site here
http://freedomainradio.com/board/forums/t/21808.aspx (http://freedomainradio.com/board/forums/t/21808.aspx)

Here is a summary,


While I understand the arguments against the socialized systems I am still left in hole.

The hole I currently reside in is this...
My family is currently paying over 20k + a year for private health insurance (Kaiser) EVERY YEAR and it keeps going up! {family of 5 with a few *pre-existing conditions*}
My father built a business from the ground up over the last 20 years and sold it apx 4 years ago and retired.
Hence we now pay for our healthcare out of pocket with no assistance/coverage from any employment. (Money from sale of business was invested in a multitude of areas with a focus on apartment buildings)
Our income has been hit very hard during the recession even with so many people moving out of homes and into apartment buildings. (apx 65% income drop)
All the while Kaiser keeps raising their rates every year.
If the rates keep going up at the current rate and the income keeps going down at the current rate it will be unsustainable.
I should note that when the business was sold and the company plan setup we had was ended we had to apply as though we were brand new and never had Kaiser ever before.
The heart attack my father had and received treatment for while under the company style Kaiser plan was a deemed a very costly *pre-existing condition* that raised his rates dramatically.
Anyways,
I have sent out the two healthcare videos to everyone I know but now I am looking for assistance in locating information on what are possible solutions to the insane healthcare prices.
Thank You!
-CR


Overall, I am looking for links & sources of information that cover very well thought out intelligent solutions to rapidly increasing healthcare costs.

[Dr.3D]

The federal government should allow the health insurance companies to compete. As it is right now, the federal government has made it illegal for a person to buy health insurance across state lines.

Edit: I believe I was incorrect in my previous statement. Now I understand it is a problem with state laws.

[Reason]

The federal government should allow the health insurance companies to compete. As it is right now, the federal government has made it illegal for a person to buy health insurance across state lines.

I have heard tidbits about the "state lines" issue before, do you know of some good sources where I can investigate this in extreme detail?

[Dr.3D]

I have heard tidbits about the "state lines" issue before, do you know of some good sources where I can investigate this in extreme detail?
I was wrong.... it seems it is the states that prohibit people from getting health insurance across state lines.

Here is a bill that has been introduced to help with that problem.
http://www.heartland.org/policybot/results/17150%20/Bill_Would_Allow_Consumers_to_Purchase_Health_Insu rance_Across_State_Lines.html

[Expatriate]

Don't know much about US healthcare since I don't live there, but here's a thought.

Get rid of Medicare and Medicaid. Healthcare is probably as expensive as it is because the medical profession can get away with charging too much when government covers the cost for many people.

People who can't afford it could still get free healthcare from charities. Before Medicare there were actually church hospitals where doctors would perform operations on poor people for free or very little. Ron Paul actually did that at one point in his life.

[Michigan11]

Focus on the BIG picture(RANT):

If the government is currently involved in 50% of all doctors payments, we have regulations up the ass, insurance companies that act as another layer of regulations, lawsuits, an amazing amount of debt to go to school to become a doctor.... i.e. we aren't in a free market to begin with right now, so we already are operating under a government healthcare system...so how do the people like it so far? Should we go the full 100%?

The solution is to get the government off these doctors' backs and out of their practices. I have a doctor that is sick of accepting medicare payments, because it requires him to have several administrators in his small office to fill out forms....in the end he is making very little off of it and sees more problems in accepting it. He plans to stop accepting it and in turn get rid of these employees. Listen to the doctors...

The government has caused this problem(corrupting the healtcare market), we are in the reaction phase of it, and next is the solution to come....

Add the inflation caused by the FED into the equation, we are up shyts creak in this failing economic system, and here we are all worrying about healthcare. Strange times we are in is all I know. Healthcare will be societies last concern in coming years.

Think about it... if the government wants to control the entire nation's healthcare... whats next? Is there anything left this communist government will keep it's hands off of or out of?

[jsu718]

How about allowing people to pay for health care. Not health insurance, health CARE. Same as tax withholding from paychecks. When people pay for things all at once they notice how much it actually is. Without going through my insurance company I can get x-rays for $200 and even a MRI for under $400. You don't want me to tell you how much they bill the insurance company for that.

[muh_roads]

http://mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=279

Steps #1 and #2 should be done for sure. They are slam dunk awesome.

[Reason]

How about allowing people to pay for health care. Not health insurance, health CARE. Same as tax withholding from paychecks. When people pay for things all at once they notice how much it actually is. Without going through my insurance company I can get x-rays for $200 and even a MRI for under $400. You don't want me to tell you how much they bill the insurance company for that.

Even with with 20k+ that my family pays overall for our entire family, I still have a 1500$ deductable that resets every year. When I got an MRI last year I had to pay the 900$ full cost for it.

This year when I had to get a cat scan for a splitting pain in my head caused by a quick and drastic change in elevation I ended up paying the full 1500 deductible and the insurance company was billed the rest of the charge which totaled around four thousand dollars (all for a simple cat scan) (turned out it was just extremely aggravated sinus pressure even though it felt like I had been shot in the head :()

[muh_roads]

Even with with 20k+ that my family pays overall for our entire family, I still have a 1500$ deductable that resets every year. When I got an MRI last year I had to pay the 900$ full cost for it.

This year when I had to get a cat scan for a splitting pain in my head caused by a quick and drastic change in elevation I ended up paying the full 1500 deductible and the insurance company was billed the rest of the charge which totaled around four thousand dollars (all for a simple cat scan) (turned out it was just extremely aggravated sinus pressure even though it felt like I had been shot in the head :()

#1 & #2 in my previous post in that link are exactly the reason why it costs $900. Eliminate those crappy restrictions and prices would fall.

Lasik is also a good example of competition resulting in falling prices. Health insurance doesn't cover it. Therefore doctors compete for your love. They advertise their prices...and now what once cost $6,000 when it first came out is now $600.

[Working Poor]

I think one thing that people could do is learn how to take good care of them selves. Eat right get enough exercise learn how to treat minor things and if you don't get better then go to the doctor. Take a course in first aid and cpr. Learn the side fx of your medication refuse to take RX drugs where death or major organ failure is a side fx these types of side fx are totally unacceptable. You do not have to be at the mercy of BIG PHARMA just so they can make a buck. There is a reason big pharma supports legislation to make alternative treatments illegal and why alternative self treatment is a multi billion dollar industry; because it works and the side fx are either non existent or, a result of your body ridding itself of what ever is causing your illness. Don't let the FDA fool you with their nonsense!!!

Instead of buying insurance and paying high premiums put the money in a savings account. At the end of the year put whatever money you have in the account towards your mortgage or pay off your car, or use it to further your education or, for your children's college. Learn how to negotiate with doctors on the cost of your treatments I know doctors who will give a discount for being paid in cash. Learn the ratio between the cost of your actual care and the cost of administering the payments.

Take your money back from the big corporations and put it back into your own pocket.

[TonySutton]

Major Medical Insurance rates are not bad at all.

Let me ask you, do you have bumper to bumper car or house insurance. I mean insurance that covers scheduled and routine maintenance? If you did, would you expect to pay a lot more for it?

If people want bumper to bumper health insurance it is going to cost them. If they participate in behavior that is bad for their health, their insurance rates may go up. Just like if I go around crashing my car into stuff all the time, my car insurance rates will go up.

People do not want to accept responsibility for their own bodies.

[Working Poor]

People do not want to accept responsibility for their own bodies

Then they deserve to have the government do it for them....

[BillyDkid]

Get government out of it. In spite of appearances - insurance companies and government are in collusion.

[misterx]

Major Medical Insurance rates are not bad at all.

Let me ask you, do you have bumper to bumper car or house insurance. I mean insurance that covers scheduled and routine maintenance? If you did, would you expect to pay a lot more for it?

If people want bumper to bumper health insurance it is going to cost them. If they participate in behavior that is bad for their health, their insurance rates may go up. Just like if I go around crashing my car into stuff all the time, my car insurance rates will go up.

People do not want to accept responsibility for their own bodies.

What he said.

[angelatc]

Even with with 20k+ that my family pays overall for our entire family, I still have a 1500$ deductable that resets every year. When I got an MRI last year I had to pay the 900$ full cost for it.



Did you shop around?

[angelatc]

John Mackey, co-founder and CEO of Whole Foods, has eight suggestions for improving health care in today's Wall Street Journal.

They are, quoting Mackey:

* Remove the legal obstacles that slow the creation of high-deductible health insurance plans and health savings accounts (HSAs). The combination of high-deductible health insurance and HSAs is one solution that could solve many of our health-care problems...


* Equalize the tax laws so that employer-provided health insurance and individually owned health insurance have the same tax benefits...


* Repeal all state laws which prevent insurance companies from competing across state lines...


* Repeal government mandates regarding what insurance companies must cover. These mandates have increased the cost of health insurance by billions of dollars. What is insured and what is not insured should be determined by individual customer preferences and not through special-interest lobbying.


* Enact tort reform to end the ruinous lawsuits that force doctors to pay insurance costs of hundreds of thousands of dollars per year. These costs are passed back to us through much higher prices for health care.


* Make costs transparent so that consumers understand what health-care treatments cost...


* Enact Medicare reform. We need to face up to the actuarial fact that Medicare is heading towards bankruptcy and enact reforms that create greater patient empowerment, choice and responsibility.


* Finally, revise tax forms to make it easier for individuals to make a voluntary, tax-deductible donation to help the millions of people who have no insurance and aren't covered by Medicare, Medicaid or the State Children's Health Insurance Program.

[Kraig]

stefbot's videos that I posted here
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=204815 (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=204815)

were very well done in terms of explaining why the govt. option is a bad idea...

BUT...

what's the answer to the insane price increases every year for private healthcare?

I posted this question on stefbot's site here
http://freedomainradio.com/board/forums/t/21808.aspx (http://freedomainradio.com/board/forums/t/21808.aspx)

Here is a summary,



Overall, I am looking for links & sources of information that cover very well thought out intelligent solutions to rapidly increasing healthcare costs.

The answer is to actually have private health care. What we have now is a mixed system that is extremely bogged down with heavy regulation that increases on a constant basis. The reason prices increase every year is because the health care industry is constantly being slapped with new and changing regulations that cost thousands or millions of dollars to comply with. The bigger the practice the more compliance will cost.

Doctors know how to run a good medical practice, they don't need the government telling them how to do it - and in the long run it has been the patients that suffer the most.

I have worked in the medical field as a service provider for the past 10 years, I have been seeing it first hand the whole time. Obama's "reform" right now threatens to put the practice I work for out of business.

[__27__]

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=202279

- Remove insurance from employment.

- Give INDIVIDUALS the same tax break employers get for purchasing insurance.

- Allow the purchasing of insurance across state lines.

- Get rid of the HMO system and return insurance to a catastrophic coverage, not a managed care plan.

- Pay for routine visits in cash.

- Allow doctors and patients do decide what is appropriate for their lives, not bureaucrats and insurance executives.

- Significant tort reform, which allows those wronged to still sue and be recouped, but negates the incentive for lawyers to bring every frivolous case they can in an attempt for a big payday.

- Remove health care mandates that require 20 year old single males to have a policy that covers them in the case they develop ovarian cancer.

- Remove mandates that require insurance companies to cover ELECTIVE surgeries.

- Allow risk to be priced accordingly, if you eat yourself to 400 pounds and smoke 3 packs a day YOU SHOULD pay more for your premiums. If you are a 20 year old single male/female who works out on a daily basis, doesn't smoke and doesn't drink, you SHOULD pay less for premiums.

In short, freedom and competition for consumer dollars is the answer. Not government mandates, rationing and price controls.


It's all common sense really.

[muh_roads]

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=202279

- Remove insurance from employment.

- Give INDIVIDUALS the same tax break employers get for purchasing insurance.

- Allow the purchasing of insurance across state lines.

- Get rid of the HMO system and return insurance to a catastrophic coverage, not a managed care plan.

- Pay for routine visits in cash.

- Allow doctors and patients do decide what is appropriate for their lives, not bureaucrats and insurance executives.

- Significant tort reform, which allows those wronged to still sue and be recouped, but negates the incentive for lawyers to bring every frivolous case they can in an attempt for a big payday.

- Remove health care mandates that require 20 year old single males to have a policy that covers them in the case they develop ovarian cancer.

- Remove mandates that require insurance companies to cover ELECTIVE surgeries.

- Allow risk to be priced accordingly, if you eat yourself to 400 pounds and smoke 3 packs a day YOU SHOULD pay more for your premiums. If you are a 20 year old single male/female who works out on a daily basis, doesn't smoke and doesn't drink, you SHOULD pay less for premiums.

In short, freedom and competition for consumer dollars is the answer. Not government mandates, rationing and price controls.


It's all common sense really.

It really amazes me that we don't treat regular visits like we would treat an oil change.

What is next, universal car coverage?

[Reason]

Did you shop around?

I think my family wanted to stick with Kaiser after the business plan ended because that is what we have always had and it is very good quality.

Also, almost everyone in my family has one type of pre-existing condition or another now so after the mess that Kaiser put us through we are pretty much too scared to even risk loosing what we have now and end up being denied with another carrier.

[__27__]

What is next, universal car coverage?

Been around for a long time:

http://www.easycarecustomercare.com/easycare/extended-warranty-for-your-car.html?gclid=CMj1ipfOnpwCFRFMagodJA9Fcw

There are others as well, basically trying to turn auto insurance from catastrophic into the health care model, where oil changes/tires/brakes/etc. would be paid for, but you pay a premium.

[Icymudpuppy]

Doctor's should refuse care to anyone who doesn't sign a waiver promising they won't seek malpractice damages above and beyond what is reasonable compensation.

[Brian4Liberty]

Did you shop around?

Good question. I am in the process right now. And one option I have looked at is paying cash when I need a doctor. Guess what? I have found that what we have is price fixing (at a high level). Doctors probably fear that you are a spy for an insurance company or the government. You ask them for a price, they give you the high price that they charge insurance. The reality is that prices have been fixed at a higher than market rate.

In another town, I know people without insurance, and they pay in cash. Their rates are about 50% less. But that is based on a long term relationship with the doctor. If I call that doctor on the phone and ask how much would it cost me, I get the insurance chart rate.

The government/insurance price fixing effect must be eliminated for true competition to occur.

[muh_roads]

Been around for a long time:

http://www.easycarecustomercare.com/easycare/extended-warranty-for-your-car.html?gclid=CMj1ipfOnpwCFRFMagodJA9Fcw

There are others as well, basically trying to turn auto insurance from catastrophic into the health care model, where oil changes/tires/brakes/etc. would be paid for, but you pay a premium.

No I meant "what's next, universal car coverage paid for by the government?"

That looks like it takes a Visa and you pay for it yourself.

[Elwar]

Same solution as the one needed for insane prices of private television sets.

[__27__]

No I meant "what's next, universal car coverage paid for by the government?"

That looks like it takes a Visa and you pay for it yourself.

Yeah, I got what you meant. I'm just saying the very fact that insurers offer the kind of "HMO" managed care plan crap for cars, and people actually buy it, is sad. Who knows, maybe some day everyone will have it, then they will bitch about high costs, then some politician looking for more power will take it over and promise everyone free car care. It's as feasible as the crap we see on a daily basis now.

[dannno]

Ron Paul has gone over this so many times it's not even funny.

We have corporate healthcare.. People buy insurance through their corporation that they work for because it is tax free. Getting it on the market does not have this tax free subsidy, so it behooves people in the short term to buy corporate insurance even though they are over-covering themselves. Corporate insurance pays for everything, so nobody is paying for their medical services, medicare and medicaid compound this problem so there is no competition in prices.. This leads to slowly rising, creeping prices, which are equally spread over all insurance plans. The cycle continues.

Peter Schiff also talks about this a lot.

One solution is to end the corporate healthcare tax subsidy and give an equally offsetting tax break (Peter Schiff's idea)

Another solution is to make all health insurance tax free whether you buy it through your employer or on the market. That's more difficult than Schiff's solution, though, IMO.

[Bucjason]

Tort reform !!

Doctors are forced to give us all sorts of unnecessary and extremely costly tests , just to avoid getting sued for Malpractice if something goes wrong.

Tort reform ALONE would do wonders to bring down costs . But good luck with that , trial lawyers pay millions in donations to the democrat party to keep this from happening.

[muh_roads]

Yeah, I got what you meant. I'm just saying the very fact that insurers offer the kind of "HMO" managed care plan crap for cars, and people actually buy it, is sad. Who knows, maybe some day everyone will have it, then they will bitch about high costs, then some politician looking for more power will take it over and promise everyone free car care. It's as feasible as the crap we see on a daily basis now.

oh ok. i haven't researched how HMO's came into being, when they became a messy boondoggle, the government involvement, or understand them very well in general.

Interesting analogy now that I see where you're going.

So people initially signed up for HMO's to cover them for everything back when people mostly just had catastrophic coverage? And then regular care people could just pay for out of pocket? I suppose we're talking about the 40's and 50's?

That's one thing older democrats/baby boomers can never answer for me..."why was this never an issue when you were living with your parents when you were younger?"

Then you hit them with economic facts about the FDA requirements and shit and they are deer in headlights.

[dannno]

Tort reform !!

Doctors are forced to give us all sorts of unnecessary and extremely costly tests , just to avoid getting sued for Malpractice if something goes wrong.

Tort reform ALONE would do wonders to bring down costs . But good luck with that , trial lawyers pay millions in donations to the democrat party to keep this from happening.

Ya, people order too many medical services BECAUSE THEIR INSURANCE COVERS IT and people don't get to decide on what insurance they get because our insurance is corporatized.

Fuck tort reform, get rid of corporate medicine so that people can choose their own level of coverage and then they can get as many or as little god damn tests as they want.

[Bucjason]

Ya, people order too many medical services BECAUSE THEIR INSURANCE COVERS IT and people don't get to decide on what insurance they get because our insurance is corporatized.

Fuck tort reform, get rid of corporate medicine so that people can choose their own level of coverage and then they can get as many or as little god damn tests as they want.


No, because your Doctor can still order tests, even though he already knows your diagnosis is 99% correct, to cover his OWN ass so you don't sue him if by some fluke he's wrong.

I can refuse the test all I want ,but then the doctor can refuse to prescribe me anything so he doesn't get his ass sued out of practice....

Tort reform is a MUST

[revolutionisnow]

Insurance should be for emergencies, not every single doctors visit. With cash and carry for routine office visits they can cut back on their staff and save money. Also hospitals need to charge the amount that they usually accept from the insurance companies now. The way it is now, they send over a bill for maybe 3k, then the insurance company sends it back stating no- we only allow for 1200 for that procedure and they accept that amount.

[dannno]

No, because your Doctor can still order tests, even though he already knows your diagnosis is 99% correct, to cover his OWN ass so you don't sue him if by some fluke he's wrong.

I can refuse the test all I want ,but then the doctor can refuse to prescribe me anything so he doesn't get his ass sued out of practice....

Tort reform is a MUST

He can't order the tests if you don't want to pay for them.

You don't understand the system we have, re-read my posts. The only reason people order these tests without question is because they aren't paying for it. Otherwise you'd be talking to your doctor about which tests you needed because YOU would be paying for it, so if you didn't get tested you would have equal responsibility since you were informed of the potential consequences by your doctor.

For example, the doctor might say, "I highly recommend test A, it costs $20. You might want to get test B for condition _________, but the chances that you have that are very slim. It costs $25, but if you decline now and decide to get tested later it will cost $30 since you'll need to get more blood taken. Would you like to get tested for test B now or wait until the results from test A come back?"

[dannno]

Insurance should be for emergencies, not every single doctors visit. With cash and carry for routine office visits they can cut back on their staff and save money. Also hospitals need to charge the amount that they usually accept from the insurance companies now. The way it is now, they send over a bill for maybe 3k, then the insurance company sends it back stating no- we only allow for 1200 for that procedure and they accept that amount.

Yes, people are over-covered due to our corporatized insurance system. It is cheaper to get insurance that gives you more coverage from your employer than it is to get insurance that gives you less coverage on the private market. The result is that nobody pays for anything so prices are through the roof. It's ridiculous.


And it's not because people are getting too many tests, that is just a distraction from the media. You can't solve that without solving the underlying problem that they won't talk about. It's because the TESTS, individually, and everything else in healthcare is too god damn expensive... I'm talking unit costs, not quantities..

[catdd]

Rand mentioned that health care insurance should work more like term life insurance that gives you a multi-year contract rather than yearly. That way it doesn't increase every time you get sick.
If the Federal government would get out of the way, it would allow the states to try various plans so that we could find out which one works best rather than blowing the whole wad on the Federal one-size fits all plan.

[Bucjason]

He can't order the tests if you don't want to pay for them.

You don't understand the system we have, re-read my posts. The only reason people order these tests without question is because they aren't paying for it. Otherwise you'd be talking to your doctor about which tests you needed because YOU would be paying for it, so if you didn't get tested you would have equal responsibility since you were informed of the potential consequences by your doctor.

For example, the doctor might say, "I highly recommend test A, it costs $20. You might want to get test B for condition _________, but the chances that you have that are very slim. It costs $25, but if you decline now and decide to get tested later it will cost $30 since you'll need to get more blood taken. Would you like to get tested for test B now or wait until the results from test A come back?"

..and like I said , at the point the Doctor will refuse to continue to treat you .

Why?? Because if he was wrong , treats the wrong disease and you die , HE IS STILL LIABLE.

Look, I'm for your suggestions also , but tort reform is an important part of the problem.

[Reason]

bump

[BlackTerrel]

Tort reform !!

Doctors are forced to give us all sorts of unnecessary and extremely costly tests , just to avoid getting sued for Malpractice if something goes wrong.

Tort reform ALONE would do wonders to bring down costs . But good luck with that , trial lawyers pay millions in donations to the democrat party to keep this from happening.

I'm with you. This is the biggest issue. One of my good friends is an ER Doc. Just as an example any female who comes in and is in her "prime child birthing years" he has to give her a pregnancy test, regardless of why she came in. Just to avoid a lawsuit. That's lunacy.

[foofighter20x]

Hell... I'd be happy if they reduced demand by making wealthy foreigners stay at home and use their own shitty health care systems. Free up a few doctors for Americans... sheesh.

[BlackTerrel]

Hell... I'd be happy if they reduced demand by making wealthy foreigners stay at home and use their own shitty health care systems. Free up a few doctors for Americans... sheesh.

Considering those wealthy foreigners pay that's not the reason our health care costs are so high.

[BillyDkid]

It really amazes me that we don't treat regular visits like we would treat an oil change.

What is next, universal car coverage?Ron Paul has been saying this forever and me too. The role of insurance to protect against catastrophic loss and not to pay for routine maintenance. How it ever got like this I do not know.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Yes, people are over-covered due to our corporatized insurance system. It is cheaper to get insurance that gives you more coverage from your employer than it is to get insurance that gives you less coverage on the private market. The result is that nobody pays for anything so prices are through the roof. It's ridiculous.


And it's not because people are getting too many tests, that is just a distraction from the media. You can't solve that without solving the underlying problem that they won't talk about. It's because the TESTS, individually, and everything else in healthcare is too god damn expensive... I'm talking unit costs, not quantities..

A rep on the House floor said that about 40 years ago, a woman could get 9 months of pre-natal visits and have the babt delivered for $60. No, I did not forget a couple of zero's! What changed? - the federal government got involved.

At a town hall meeting, a doctor was talking about having a lab in his office and being able to do a WBC count for $12, in house. Government regulation came along and he can no longer do that, he has to send the tests out and that same test now costs $70, takes 3 days to get results and the patient has to come back again. Same with X-Rays.

As to liability, I worked in emergency medicine when I was younger and know of three occasions where some hospital bureaucrat read the medical worker involved the riot act. The words were always the same: "You should have let them die!, We aren't liable if they die!" In every case, a life had been saved. One involved a RN making do and using an ET tube one size off, because the correct size hadn't been restocked. The second was an ambulance crew that that administered a patient his one nitroglycerin pills, unfortunantly they had met their expiration date 2 weeks before and the family sued. In the third case, an EMT gave a patient a tracheotomy.

Medical care in this country is seriously messed up!

2 improvements people haven't brought up is letting people with lower levels of training do more. Not everyone needs to see a doctor. For example, the way relief organizations operate is that if someone presents and looks like they have whatever gunk is going around, a health worker hands them a bottle of pills, say take that and come back in 3 days if you aren't feeling a lot better, or sooner if you feel worse. In, out 5 minutes, no need to see a doc, diagnosis and Tx based on probabilities, rather than certainties with diagnosis confirmed by the patient responding positively to treatment. Fast, cheap, effective. Only the ones that aren't clear cut get elevated to someone with more medical knowledge.

That's the second big change - throw out the concept that you have to be right every time for fear of getting sued.

We seriously need tort reform. Back when I was into it, we were all supposed to stop at accidents, but nobody did unless it was really bad. Too many of us had been sued. A lone medic has all the liability and none of the protection insurance brings. People died as a result.

-t

[BillyDkid]

We seriously need tort reform. Back when I was into it, we were all supposed to stop at accidents, but nobody did unless it was really bad. Too many of us had been sued. A lone medic has all the liability and none of the protection insurance brings. People died as a result.

-tOkay, this is what has always baffled me. You may remember that Dubya signed or promoted something limiting awards and I find this very confusing. There are only two possiblities - either juries are finding malpractice incorrectly or there are too many medical professionals committing malpractice. Those are the things you fix and not the size of the awards. Nobody ever talks about these things. They talk about hundred million dollar awards. If there were not either too many doctors committing malpractice or too many juries inappropriately finding malpractice then the size of the awards wouldn't matter. Malpractice determinations would be rare as they should be.

[Working Poor]

I just can't understand how people could be so dependent on health insurance. What did people do before there was such a thing?


Personally I have never had it. When and if I get sick I do everything I can to get well on my own. If I do not improve I go to a doctor and pay cash for the services.

My mother worked for an airline and had the top health care plan, I called her e victum of too much insurance, because before she had insurance she never got sick and after she had it everytime she went to the doctor they found a reason to do a surgical procedure I told her she needed to see if they could instal a zipper in her abdomen to make it easier.

IMO health insurance causes sickness.

[BenIsForRon]

Ron Paul has gone over this so many times it's not even funny.

We have corporate healthcare.. People buy insurance through their corporation that they work for because it is tax free. Getting it on the market does not have this tax free subsidy, so it behooves people in the short term to buy corporate insurance even though they are over-covering themselves. Corporate insurance pays for everything, so nobody is paying for their medical services, medicare and medicaid compound this problem so there is no competition in prices.. This leads to slowly rising, creeping prices, which are equally spread over all insurance plans. The cycle continues.

Peter Schiff also talks about this a lot.

One solution is to end the corporate healthcare tax subsidy and give an equally offsetting tax break (Peter Schiff's idea)

Another solution is to make all health insurance tax free whether you buy it through your employer or on the market. That's more difficult than Schiff's solution, though, IMO.

Thanks Danno, I didn't really understand Schiff when he explained that the other day, but your post cleared it up.

Here's another question though: What possible rationale did congress have when they did the tax break for buying insurance through the employer? It seems redundant and pointless not to give the tax break to everyone.

[Indy4Chng]

How about allowing people to pay for health care. Not health insurance, health CARE. Same as tax withholding from paychecks. When people pay for things all at once they notice how much it actually is. Without going through my insurance company I can get x-rays for $200 and even a MRI for under $400. You don't want me to tell you how much they bill the insurance company for that.

This has been my point all along. Insurance compliance costs at the average physician office is about 25% of all costs, so 1/4 of the people employed in the patient driven side of health care are just do to insurance. We need to scale back our dependency on health insurance. When I go to the doctor I should pay for it. I bet the average doctor visit would be ~ $50 if that was the case (as that is the cost for physicians outside the insurance structure). We need to make this an option, the current laws make this very difficult (at least that is my understanding).

[Indy4Chng]

Major Medical Insurance rates are not bad at all.

Let me ask you, do you have bumper to bumper car or house insurance. I mean insurance that covers scheduled and routine maintenance? If you did, would you expect to pay a lot more for it?

If people want bumper to bumper health insurance it is going to cost them. If they participate in behavior that is bad for their health, their insurance rates may go up. Just like if I go around crashing my car into stuff all the time, my car insurance rates will go up.

People do not want to accept responsibility for their own bodies.

The problem is you can't go around this system as every decent doctor has this system built into their costs and the costs of complying with this system. Now if there were a whole network of hospitals and doctors that worked outside the insurance system you would be right on the nose.