PDA

View Full Version : Having a hard time differentiating neo-cons vs. Paulites




StateofTrance
08-11-2009, 08:02 PM
If you're a Ron Paul person and shouting at the representatives and "hijacking" the town hall meetings, you should be ashamed of yourself. That's not how Dr. Paul would debate.
Stop acting like neo-cons because it reminds me of McShame-Palin's crowd.

Otherwise, neglect this thread, and fuck you neo-cons.

MRoCkEd
08-11-2009, 08:03 PM
Ask a simple question: "What portion of the Constitution authorizes this?"

StateofTrance
08-11-2009, 08:05 PM
^^ Exactly.

LibertyEagle
08-11-2009, 08:05 PM
They'll just point to the General Welfare clause. Yes, they are misinterpreting it, but it's usually the clause they refer to for this kind of crap.

gls
08-11-2009, 08:05 PM
Yes, everyone remain congenial as they ignore your questions and lie to your face. That'll get us far.

mrchubbs
08-11-2009, 08:15 PM
They'll just point to the General Welfare clause. Yes, they are misinterpreting it, but it's usually the clause they refer to for this kind of crap.


Yup... that is the argument they use however false. The only rebuttal to it I see is to provide quotes from some people that may know a thing or two about the intent of the general welfare clause(s) in the Constitution:

"Congress has not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but only
those specifically enumerated." - Thomas Jefferson

"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." - James Madison

"To refer the power in question to the clause "to provide for common defense and general welfare" would be contrary to the established and consistent rules of interpretation, as rendering the special and careful enumeration of powers which follow the clause nugatory and improper. Such a view of the Constitution would have the effect of giving to Congress a general power of legislation instead of the defined and limited one hitherto understood to belong to them, the terms "common defense and general welfare" embracing every object and act within the purview of a legislative trust." - James Madison

The next time someone pulls out the general welfare clause just say...

Do you know you are arguing directly against the Founders when you try to use the general welfare clause like that? For instance.... then cite the quotes above.

Enjoy

muzzled dogg
08-11-2009, 08:18 PM
Ask a simple question: "What portion of the Constitution authorizes this?"

article I section 8 general welfare clause

Isaac Bickerstaff
08-11-2009, 08:25 PM
Yes, we should not be the ones shouting; we should be the ones harnessing the anger and offering real solutions.
Today I had the opportunity to man a Republican booth at an event. The literature offered was the normal "Look how much the Democrats are spending! That's outrageous!" stuff. I brought copies of the Constitution, the Nolan Chart and C4L "Audit the FED" fliers. The only stuff people seemed to care about was the stuff I brought.:) Might throw some movies into the mix tomorrow.:cool:

tpreitzel
08-11-2009, 08:30 PM
The next time someone pulls out the general welfare clause just say...

Do you know you are arguing directly against the Founders when you try to use the general welfare clause like that? For instance.... then cite the quotes above.

Enjoy

Good advice, but too many Americans are way, WAY out there. For example, I pointed a poster on the forums of bb.com to the founder's words on Article 1, Section 8 and Federalist Paper 41 where Madison makes it crystal clear that Article 1, Section 8 only allows the US Congress to legislate in those specifically enumerated areas. His response was that 200 years of judicial review superseded the words and intent of the founders including James Madison. Wow, just wow!

Kevin_Kennedy
08-11-2009, 08:54 PM
When you ask which portion of the Constitution authorizes universal healthcare be sure to remind them that the general welfare clause gives no power to the federal government and that the 10th Amendment makes that clear.

Alawn
08-11-2009, 09:27 PM
There is nothing wrong with screaming at them. They deserve it.

raystone
08-11-2009, 09:34 PM
OP - get off your high horse. These smackdowns are validation to millions of Americans who were thinking government growth was increasingly wrong the last 6 months, but didn't have the confidence to go against the mainstream media lies.

StateofTrance
08-12-2009, 03:07 AM
What were those filthy, old neo-cons doing when their tax dollars were funding illegal wars? This is nothing but a bunch of brainwashed, baby boomer crowd arguiing without a proper intelligent discourse. Since most of the town hall meetings are being televised live, Paluties should take over those meetings from the neo-con crowd and intelligently fight word-by-word with the representatives. If you act like a loon and shout, you will get a one day fame and then neglected as a hijacker.

dr. hfn
08-12-2009, 11:02 AM
What were those filthy, old neo-cons doing when their tax dollars were funding illegal wars? This is nothing but a bunch of brainwashed, baby boomer crowd arguiing without a proper intelligent discourse. Since most of the town hall meetings are being televised live, Paluties should take over those meetings from the neo-con crowd and intelligently fight word-by-word with the representatives. If you act like a loon and shout, you will get a one day fame and then neglected as a hijacker.

100% agreed. I think when we do speak out we are very intelligent and fluent. It's hilarious to see people start crying and screaming about god and the bible and the muslims at these healthcare townhall meetings.

Todd
08-12-2009, 11:10 AM
You can't debate with thieves and liars. Someone mentioned here the other day that most polticians don't give two squirts for what went on at these town hall meetings once they return to their country clubs and D.C. uptown homes. By debating them they went ahead and passed the TARP by what........3 to 1? They've saddled $23 trillion hubris on future unborn generations. I think the time for debating those that present "solution" to any foreign or domestic problems as another "program" funded by "taxes" is over. They should be shouted down, mocked and ridiculed.

Bossobass
08-12-2009, 12:42 PM
When I visited my Congresswoman about HR1207 back in April (after having called and e-mailed many times), I showed her the facts about the Fed, quoted the exchange between Congress and Bernanke where he refused to say where trillions of my dollars have gone or what the terms of those transactions were, showed her the poll numbers and said, "We've spoken. Now... who do you work for?"

She agreed to cosponsor and did so a week later.

I approach my politicians with the simple facts:

I represent PROVEN, RECORD-BREAKING donators who will man phone banks, knock on doors, wave signs, attend rallies, know the issues and VOTE.

What do you have to trade for that?

It works. Town hall meetings are better than staying home and watching the toob, but not nearly as effective as presenting an organized grassroots effort with a specific agenda.

I'm embarrassed to say that Operation:Kickstart (http://www.operationkickstart.com/) has only 325 people who have pledged to print and mail 2 letters to Frank And Pelosi on August 24, to kick off several planned campaigns to promote HR1207.

325 people? Pelosi will get more mail about gay marriage.

It seems that RP Grassroots has devolved into chatting about things that happened yesterday.

Bosso

dannno
08-12-2009, 12:47 PM
If you're a Ron Paul person and shouting at the representatives and "hijacking" the town hall meetings, you should be ashamed of yourself. That's not how Dr. Paul would debate.
Stop acting like neo-cons because it reminds me of McShame-Palin's crowd.

Otherwise, neglect this thread, and fuck you neo-cons.

Ron Paul believes in peaceful civil disobedience and he does not ask all those who love liberty to act exactly like him.

Why don't the Ron Paul supporters who are hijacking town hall meetings remind you of war protesting leftists ? Why neocons? Neocons like the government.

Your post doesn't make any sense to me. You seem more like a neocon than anybody else here because you seem to be telling people what to do.

erowe1
08-12-2009, 01:25 PM
If you're a Ron Paul person and shouting at the representatives and "hijacking" the town hall meetings, you should be ashamed of yourself. That's not how Dr. Paul would debate.
Stop acting like neo-cons because it reminds me of McShame-Palin's crowd.

Otherwise, neglect this thread, and fuck you neo-cons.

Why would you associate opponents of universal health care with neoconservatism? Neoconservatism has nothing to do with that issue. Some neo-cons like it some don't. Another reason this equation is strange is that the closest and most recent analogue I can see to the protests against Obamacare we're seeing now were protests against Bush policies during his presidency, and in those cases it was precisely the neocons who were the targets, not the instigators. If anything, you should associate the lying congressmen with neocons, not the angry constituents.

I agree that yelling at town hall meetings is a bad idea. But I haven't been to one yet, and I'm certainly not going to judge what people are doing there based on the way the MSM reports it. I also can't say I have no sympathy with people who let their emotions get the best of them while their congressman is lying to their face about a life or death issue. The signatories of the Declaration of Independence pledged their lives, fortunes, and sacred honors to fight against tyranny far less burdensome than our current federal government, and using methods of opposing that tyranny far more violent than shouting.

What these congressman are experiencing isn't some astro-turf GOP plan to use rudeness as some kind of secret weapon against the health care bill. What they're experiencing is the spontaneous eruption of outrage from people who have finally had enough. They're finding out that they've turned up the heat on the frog in the pot just a bit too fast.

Imperial
08-13-2009, 12:28 AM
Its one thing if the townhall is being extremely unfairly run to start protesting. But if they let people speak and allow people to voice their mind, there is no reason to turn townhalls into a tea party.