Murder of the Real

[InterestedParticipant]

This clip shows Jean Baudrillard's 'Simulacra and Simulation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulacra_and_Simulation)' is the book in which Neo hides his illegal software at the beginning of the movie. In one scene Morpheus says 'welcome to the desert of the real', a phrase coined by Baudrillard - his idea is that the simulation has become more real to us than the physical reality. BUT these Tavistock guys in this clip are taking Baudrillard LITERARLLY, spinning it as if we are now able to bend spoons with out minds, etc. When I read Baudrillard what I got was that he was saying media has become a 'world wide web' of simulation - like CAGE.

YouTube - Philosophy and the Matrix - Baudrillard (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3tr0gSNBx4)

Notice they spin it like Baudrillard is supporting their shit....I don't think so with this title of his actual speech Baudrillard - The Murder of the Real (1/6), where he points out that when reality is entirely artificial the people in it experience Nihilism

YouTube - Baudrillard - The Murder of the Real (1/6) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOIjI2gFizM&feature=related)

[InterestedParticipant]

Here is the rest of the 6-part speech



YouTube - Baudrillard - The Murder of the Real (2/6) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSyBHYyThPg)

YouTube - Baudrillard - The Murder of the Real (3/6) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=re2NzR_pl0E)

YouTube - Baudrillard - The Murder of the Real (4/6) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_Wz7JUJcjA)

YouTube - Baudrillard - The Murder of the Real (5/6) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EWt_M51um0)

YouTube - Baudrillard - The Murder of the Real (6/6) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uv8oAS_nSs)

[InterestedParticipant]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulacra_and_Simulation


Simulacra and Simulation is most known for its discussion of images, signs, and how they relate to the present day.

Baudrillard claims that modern society has replaced all reality and meaning with symbols and signs, and that the human experience is of a simulation of reality rather than reality itself.

The simulacra that Baudrillard refers to are signs of culture and media that create the perceived reality; Baudrillard believed that society has become so reliant on simulacra that it has lost contact with the real world on which the simulacra are based.

Simulacra and Simulation identifies three types of simulacra and identifies each with a historical period:


First order, associated with the pre-modern period, where the image is clearly an artificial placemarker for the real item.
Second order, associated with the industrial Revolution, where distinctions between image and reality break down due to the proliferation of mass-produced copies. The item's ability to imitate reality threatens to replace the original version.
Third order, associated with the postmodern age, where the simulacrum precedes the original and the distinction between reality and representation breaks down. There is only the simulacrum.


Baudrillard theorizes that the lack of distinctions between reality and simulacra originates in several phenomena:


Contemporary media including television, film, print and the Internet, which are responsible for blurring the line between goods that are needed and goods for which a need is created by commercial images.
Exchange value, in which the value of goods is based on money rather than usefulness.
Multinational capitalism, which separates produced goods from the plants, minerals and other original materials and the processes used to create them.
Urbanization, which separates humans from the natural world.
Language and ideology, in which language is used to obscure rather than reveal reality when used by dominant, politically powerful groups.

[pinkmandy]

This looks very interesting and I intend to check out later- a bit too late to dig into it tonight. Thanks for posting it!

[LibertyEagle]

bump

[InterestedParticipant]

What is happening now, with the Internet, Mainstream Media. Alternative media, controls over economy, controls over our liberties, controls over our travel, etc., is that the power structure is attempting to control our access to our own realities. They are attempting to control everything that we see and hear and think... whether is be through group pressure techniques or mass-propaganda. It is about controlling inputs... the inputs into our senses that lead to our brains.

We spend our days glues to TV screens, reading magazines, reading newspapers, reading the Web, all of these things are more and more controlled by their power base. Our reference and relationship with the "real" is less and less. We focus on and talk about AJ, about Glenn Beck, about Peter Schiff, about Obama, about ACORN, and everything else they throw our way. Our world is their world.

This is a cursory view into the Murder of the Real. And if the power structure is allowed to progress, their control systems will gain a tighter grip, moving us into Matrix-like worlds, where we live out lives as the new movie "Surrogates (http://www.chooseyoursurrogate.com/)" attempts to portray. While these Hollywood representations are obviously egregious, they are accurate in their allegorical interpretation.

While I have inflamed many at these forums often, my message has always come from the vantage point that we should ignore them, ignore their system, ignore their dialectics, for they are manufactured for the purpose of control of the many by the few.

Turn to each other, turn to humanity, turn to faith, turn to what you believe is real. But these charades that they inject into our lives are not real. So, my goal is to help educate others that our best course of action is to turn away from their contrived systems, and to turn back to each other, humanity, and to begin to rebuild our society based upon the ideals that everyone here strives for.

P.S. The FED is only one fake-element within this very large manufactured system.

[Original_Intent]

How can they argue that he is saying we can bend spoons with our mind when clearly in the Matrix the message is stated:

There is no spoon

And yes InterestedParticipant, your last post NAILS IT.

Real wealth is not fiat currency I will even say it is not gold, silver, etc. Fiat currency is a fraudulent medium of exchange, while gold silver etc are still nothing more than legitimate mediums of exchange - they themselves are not real wealth but are a store of value due to their rarity. I would say the only time they become real wealth is when something beautiful is created from them...

Real wealth is NOTHING MORE OR LESS than having your physical needs met, and being able to turn the maximum amount of your life from meeting these NEEDS and being able to SPEND your LIFE (the only REAL currency you own) on whatever pursuits you deem worthy:

Hedonism
Spirituality
Discovery
Invention
Security (storing wealth so that your future needs are met)
.
.
.
etc

Or any combination of anything you can think of.
We are told over and over that wealth is a new car, a big screen TV, having bigger breasts or bigger penis etc etc etc.

All meaningless garbage at the end of your life. You sold your birthright for a mess of pottage. So sorry, you blew it, unless the people who believe in reincarnation are right. No wonder we have so many nihilists....

[InterestedParticipant]

How can they argue that he is saying we can bend spoons with our mind when clearly in the Matrix the message is stated:

There is no spoon
In the Matrix movies Morpheus says to Neo, "Welcome to the desert of the real" (see video). Well, if everything that they know is a neuro-electrical simulation, how do we know if the "Desert of the Real is real," and how do we know if Neo is real, or if he ever really left the pod that he was in, or if he ever really was in a pod at all?

YouTube - Matrix 'desert of the real' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgBViHeiSKM)


The bottom line is that we do not know. Once we start down that slippery slope of "Murdering the Real," how can one be certain of a given baseline of reality? How does one determine what is real and what is not real?

If the spoon does not exist, then how do we know any other thing in that room exists?

My point is is we can not allow the "Murder of the Real." This is the point. Baudrillard refers to this Murder as "The Perfect Crime." Well, my point is that we cannot allow this crime to be committed, we must fight for what we know is real, and not allow those who seek to murder it do so.


The Perfect Crime, Jean Baudrillard
http://www.versobooks.com/books/ab/b-titles/baudrillard_j_crime.shtml

In his new book, perhaps the most cogent expression of his mature thought, Jean Baudrillard turns detective in order to investigate a crime which he hopes may yet be solved: the “murder” of reality. To solve the crime would be to unravel the social and technological processes by which reality has quite simply vanished under the deadly glare of media “real time.“

But Baudrillard is not merely intending to lament the disappearance of the real, an occurrence he recently described as “the most important event of modern history,” nor even to meditate upon the paradoxes of reality and illusion, truth and its masks. The Perfect Crime is also the work of a great moraliste: a penetrating examination of vital aspects of the social, political and cultural life of the “advanced democracies” in the (very) late twentieth century. Where critics like McLuhan once exposed the alienating consequences of “the medium,” Baudrillard lays bare the depredatory effects of an oppressive transparency on our social lives, of a relentless positivity on our critical faculties, and of a withering 'high definition' on our very sense of reality.

“The most important and original French thinker of the past twenty years.” — J.G. Ballard

[InterestedParticipant]

In this video they discuss having enough computing power to create thousands of simulations of reality, such that a person would not know if they were real or not. It's kind of like Satellite TV.....thousands of channels and not one real one.

YouTube - The Matrix Is Real (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHvEUWzA4Qw)

Of course, there is another option they do not discuss, and that is convincing us that all these simulations exist... hence, bending "our" reality... which is sorta what is happening right now in today's world.