How Would You Counter This Socialist Argument?

[clb09]

http://imgur.com/5RkJK.png


Every workday morning I am awakened by my alarm clock powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the US department of energy...

Then I take a shower in the clean water provided by the municipal water utility. After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC regulated channels to see what the national weather service of the national oceanographic and atmospheric administration determined the weather was going to be like using satellites designed, built, and launched by the national aeronautics and space administration...I watched this while eating my breakfast of US department of agriculture inspected food and taking the drugs which have been determined as safe by the food and drug administration...

At the appropriate time as regulated by the US congress and kept accurate by the national institute of standards and technology and the US naval observatory, I get into my national highway traffic safety administration approved automobile and set out to work on the roads build by the local, state, and federal departments of transportation, possibly stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level determined by the environmental protection agency, using legal tender issed by the federal reserve bank... On the way out the door I deposit any mail I have to be sent out via the US postal service and drop the kids off at the public school...

After spending another day not being maimed or killed at work thanks to the workplace regulations imposed by the department of labor and the occupational safety and health administration, enjoying another two meals which again do not kill me because of the USDA, I drive my NHTSA car back home on the DOT roads, to my house which has not burned down in my absence because of the state and local building codes and fire marshal's inspection, and which has not been plundered of all it's valuables thanks to the local police department...

I then log on to the internet which was developed by the defense advanced research projects administration and read on here (and different news forums) the typical Fear and Smear posts from the minions of the GOP and read about how SOCIALISM in medicine is BAD because the government can't do anything right...lol

REMEMBER: America is thoroughly brain washed to this kind of thinking. How do we defeat this?

[Optatron]

you don't need to, just admit that socialism and public funding isn't always bad.

that's a FACT.

[nayjevin]

The writer sees government everywhere, but doesn't see the problems it's causing. For instance, water is not clean, the food and drugs determined 'safe' by the FDA aren't, building codes don't stop fires, etc etc. So I guess the solution is to make people more aware when gov't fails.

[TCE]

Here we go:

Alarm Clock: Commonwealth Edison is a private company and it gives energy just fine. However, they can drive up their costs and we can't do a thing about it because there is no competitor. To say that only the government can provide energy is patently false.

Shower: The water that contains "proper" amounts of lead, arsenic, pharmaceuticals, fluoride, and chlorine? You're right, the government is doing a great job!

Weather: If competition was allowed and the government stayed out of monopolizing space expedition, the taxpayers would not have to subsidize NASA's failures without a choice.

Food: That is also the FDA, unless it is meat or dairy. In addition, if you look at the FDA's track record, it is terrible. Easily one of the most corrupt agencies of all time. But don't worry, it's not like thousands of people have ever died from (VIOXX) a FDA approved medication before. And please ignore the Wyeth v. Levine Supreme Court Case.

Roads: Check out the Chicago Skyway. The city of Chicago sold it to a private investor. He makes a profit, and the city of Chicago gets a nice road.

Fuel: The EPA isn't very concerned with the quality of fuel, they have "global warming" to worry about.

The Fed: In 1913 you would have been able to fill up your tank for less than $1.00.

School: It is clear to virtually everyone that the government training centers, I mean schools, are worthless in comparison to home schooling and private schooling.

Work: Why would any employer ever want to kill his employees? What kind of sense would that make? Nobody would want to work there and he would go out of business very quickly.

Meal 2: Either you eat a lot of meat or something, because the USDA does NOT regulate all food.

Fire codes: Houses wouldn't spontaneously burst into flames if codes were not put into place. They didn't in the 1800's and they won't now.

[TinCanToNA]

Work: Why would any employer ever want to kill his employees? What kind of sense would that make? Nobody would want to work there and he would go out of business very quickly.
Just playing devil's advocate for a second:
That's not the point brought up. See Chinese coal miners http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-11/13/content_391242.htm
Nobody would want to work there... unless they need to in order to survive...


The real argument against it should focus on the fraud and deception of the companies involved, and also recognize that practices of business which do not recognize individual rights are unsound. That's two hits against true free market systems.

[Pauls' Revere]

Oh Please...and they see no problem with how thier lifes are controlled and regulated by government? Might as well tell them when to shit and how to wipe thier ass.

[TCE]

Just playing devil's advocate for a second:
That's not the point brought up. See Chinese coal miners http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-11/13/content_391242.htm
Nobody would want to work there... unless they need to in order to survive...


The real argument against it should focus on the fraud and deception of the companies involved, and also recognize that practices of business which do not recognize individual rights are unsound. That's two hits against true free market systems.

The government owns the mines though. In a free market system, one is able to sue and use the court system. The mines would also be privately owned, leaving the owners liable. The Chinese government will not fail because it is not influenced by profits and lawsuits (it is virtually impossible to win in a lawsuit against the Chinese government).

P.S. I always encourage playing devil's advocate.

[lynnf]

using the logic prescribed by the text in the OP, then follow this:

because Napoleon caused food canning processes to be developed to feed his army on the march, one would have to conclude that war is good just because something good came from the urge to go to war. so let's all start something!

ain't so.

government is a necessary evil, but it shouldn't be total evil.

lynn

[Optatron]

Oh Please...and they see no problem with how thier lifes are controlled and regulated by government? Might as well tell them when to shit and how to wipe thier ass.

what's wrong with that if they can get away with it?

just because you don't see it happening or don't prefer it doesn't mean it's wrong.

[pcosmar]

How Would You Counter This Socialist Argument?

Ignore it.
Get a stick if they don't go away.

[Kotin]

Ignore it.
Get a stick if they don't go away.

this.

[Optatron]

The real argument against it should focus on the fraud and deception of the companies involved, and also recognize that practices of business which do not recognize individual rights are unsound. That's two hits against true free market systems.

we wouldn't have fraud if we didn't respect privacy and property, would we?

Solved!

what's the advantage of being "sound" if the job can get done?

[Wise]

Every workday morning I awake whenever I do naturally. Then I take a 'bird bath' in the lake. After that, I listen to the birds and walk about checking on the animals, rabbits, goats, chickens as well as cats and dogs, not forgetting the goose. I look at the sky, the clouds and feel the air to tell me the weather.

I pick something from the garden as I pass through, today it is a small garden melon. It is about the size of a child's football. It is grown without any outside input. No fertilizer, no pesticides, the seed is saved from the year before. This I eat half of along with some tea. The tea leaves are dried from last years crop. The tea tree is only waist high but it produces all I need and I drink tea several times a day. The water is heated in a clay pot on a hand made adobe brick stove. The fuel is a handful of sticks and dry leaves.

The animals all like attention. This takes an hour if not most of the morning.
I check the weather again. Without thinking about it. The world and I are one. I feel any changes in wind, humidity, sun light, cloud cover. I don't need to think about this. I pray for an hour before a friend arrives. He has some things from the world he wants to give me. He thinks I need things and comes to 'trade' with me. I feed him the other half of the melon and give him a jar of goats milk. He leaves some mason jars. He has to have something to get his milk in and he knows it.

Most of the day has slipped by. The children playing. The other families sitting together. Martha, my daughter, is learning to sew today. As the sun sets the families come together for the main meal of the day. Each family contributes something to the meal so that there is variety for all even though not everyone grows, farms, raises or herds every food. No money changes hands here, ever. Money would be ugly, insulting. We are human beings.

[Austin]

Looks like someone reads reddit. ;)

[Optatron]

Looks like someone reads reddit. ;)

no way, somebody puts 4chan on reddit?

[Anti Federalist]

Every workday morning I am awakened by my alarm clock powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the US department of energy...

Then I take a shower in the clean water provided by the municipal water utility. After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC regulated channels to see what the national weather service of the national oceanographic and atmospheric administration determined the weather was going to be like using satellites designed, built, and launched by the national aeronautics and space administration...I watched this while eating my breakfast of US department of agriculture inspected food and taking the drugs which have been determined as safe by the food and drug administration...

At the appropriate time as regulated by the US congress and kept accurate by the national institute of standards and technology and the US naval observatory, I get into my national highway traffic safety administration approved automobile and set out to work on the roads build by the local, state, and federal departments of transportation, possibly stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level determined by the environmental protection agency, using legal tender issed by the federal reserve bank... On the way out the door I deposit any mail I have to be sent out via the US postal service and drop the kids off at the public school...

After spending another day not being maimed or killed at work thanks to the workplace regulations imposed by the department of labor and the occupational safety and health administration, enjoying another two meals which again do not kill me because of the USDA, I drive my NHTSA car back home on the DOT roads, to my house which has not burned down in my absence because of the state and local building codes and fire marshal's inspection, and which has not been plundered of all it's valuables thanks to the local police department...

I then log on to the internet which was developed by the defense advanced research projects administration and read on here (and different news forums) the typical Fear and Smear posts from the minions of the GOP and read about how SOCIALISM in medicine is BAD because the government can't do anything right...lol

That's not socialism, that's a regulatory structure.

Socialism is:

Every day my neighbor comes over without a welcome and without an invitation, and eats my FDA approved food, takes my FDA approved drugs, showers in my government approved hot water, drives my NHTSA approved car to the same job where this lout of neighbor takes half of my pay and demands that I pay for his kid's government education and his health care and bail him out of his stupid NINJA home loan.

[Bucjason]

I don't bother to counter socialists....I just laugh in thier stupid face and then tell them to move to Cuba.

[roho76]

Ask them if they think the SEC is doing a good job of protecting their 401k, investments from being hijacked.

[micahnelson]

The government has created a very smooth system for you to wake up, commute to work, go to sleep at home and continue to do this until you die. You are able to purchase your food at any number of corporate entities. You may freely pay your mortgage to any bank within the Federal Reserve system.

Now, see how helpful the government is if you want to start a business, build your own house, create dissenting speech, pursue alternative medicine, support an unpopular religion or oppose a popular one, create a unit of exchange, grow and sell your own food, build and sell your own products, purchase a firearm, hold a protest... the list could go on.

The government isn't a a stumbling block for systemic mediocrity, on the contrary it is mediocrity's greatest facilitator. America is about diversity of ideas, and federalization makes it uniform.

Surely the author of this speech understands that America used to be about the pioneering spirit. Where in that story did he pioneer? How helpful would the government been towards those ends?

Not to mention, I would hate to believe that the author attributes clean water to the same Federal Government that rubber stamps so many coal and oil power plants, but is slow to approve wind and never approves nuclear plants. I hope he isn't attributing healthy food to the FDA, an organization which has brought us a world of edible chemicals marked natural including genetically altered plants from Monsanto. I hope he doesn't consider our public transportation system, including the highway, superior to the speed and efficiency of private travel- if he was, why is Congress buying private jets?

You know what, I'm going to have to bust out Sam Adams on this one:

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were ever our countrymen.”

[hugolp]

Its stupid. The guy assumes that without goverment all that would not be happening. In fact, its alredy happening without goverment because the ones providing those services are people working. In good goverment style, it is just trying to get the merit for something it didnt do. Without the goverment in the midle geting money for doing nothing those services would be cheaper and the workers would be earning more money for their jobs. But goverment allways wants money, lots of money.

The guy who wrote that has slave mentality. And what is worth, its happy being a slave.

[teacherone]

Beautiful! Somewhat idyllic but we all need a utopia to strive towards...


Every workday morning I awake whenever I do naturally. Then I take a 'bird bath' in the lake. After that, I listen to the birds and walk about checking on the animals, rabbits, goats, chickens as well as cats and dogs, not forgetting the goose. I look at the sky, the clouds and feel the air to tell me the weather.

I pick something from the garden as I pass through, today it is a small garden melon. It is about the size of a child's football. It is grown without any outside input. No fertilizer, no pesticides, the seed is saved from the year before. This I eat half of along with some tea. The tea leaves are dried from last years crop. The tea tree is only waist high but it produces all I need and I drink tea several times a day. The water is heated in a clay pot on a hand made adobe brick stove. The fuel is a handful of sticks and dry leaves.

The animals all like attention. This takes an hour if not most of the morning.
I check the weather again. Without thinking about it. The world and I are one. I feel any changes in wind, humidity, sun light, cloud cover. I don't need to think about this. I pray for an hour before a friend arrives. He has some things from the world he wants to give me. He thinks I need things and comes to 'trade' with me. I feed him the other half of the melon and give him a jar of goats milk. He leaves some mason jars. He has to have something to get his milk in and he knows it.

Most of the day has slipped by. The children playing. The other families sitting together. Martha, my daughter, is learning to sew today. As the sun sets the families come together for the main meal of the day. Each family contributes something to the meal so that there is variety for all even though not everyone grows, farms, raises or herds every food. No money changes hands here, ever. Money would be ugly, insulting. We are human beings.

[Conza88]

you don't need to, just admit that socialism and public funding isn't always bad.

that's a FACT.

WRONG. Theft is bad. Always.

Wrong again. ;)