I know european socialized medicine first hand, read the facts

[the count]

i have spent a total of 20 years living in austria, a typical central european country that has had socialized medicine for decades. so i have experienced both the good and the bad sides of this and i am sure you people would like to hear how it works in practice.

1) do not expect doctors to give you a lot of their time. doctors get paid a (ridiculously low) flat fee for seeing a patient. for each procedure done they get paid extra. i rarely spoke to a doctor for more than 10 minutes and the next patient is called. they got to make up for the low fee in quantity. if possible they will have you come in for a second visit (hence another fee), this is especially prevalent with dentists. gov. health care covers the most basic dental proceedures like fillings, extractions, root canal, but no more. doctors offices there do not have that 'living room like' look to them, more the very basic not very inviting stark look.

2) all the government health insurance providers are totally in the red. billions in debt. and this in spite of the fact that europeans are taxed to death. socialized medicine has a huge cost, even though health care providers get paid maybe a third of what the get here. example: a brain MRI in the U.S. costs about $3000 without insurance. cost in europe: 600 euros, thats about 900 dollars at the current exchange rate. and yes, it is nice to know that no matter how sick you are you will not be bankrupt by getting medical attention. and that you will never have to chose between eating or being able to afford your medicine.

3) do not believe obama, reid and pelosy when they say socialized medicine will not add to those who now have insurance. maybe not in direct payments to the insurance carrier but ALL WILL PAY, one way or another. how about $7 for a gallon of gas? 30% income tax even for those with low incomes? sales tax of 20% on EVERYTHING, incl. services? well, thats europe for you.

4) yes, i think we are all overpaying for medicine and medical services here. but what the government is planning will ultimately cost everybody a fortune.

5) the obama administration ultimately has a socialist agenda that it wants to cram down our throats. socialists ALWAYS believe that THEY knows whats best for everybody. they do not react kindly to any opposing view while expecting all others to see things their way.

[Sandra]

We need to put these points in print! I discovered yesterday that a majority of the elderly in one nursing home voted McCain. They also support the Obama Plan. This is not a partisan issue. I know they're worried about finances but what they will be paying for is worsened care, even in the nursing home.

[fedup100]

We need to put these points in print! I discovered yesterday that a majority of the elderly in one nursing home voted McCain. They also support the Obama Plan. This is not a partisan issue. I know they're worried about finances but what they will be paying for is worsened care, even in the nursing home.

Most that are in nursing homes are too far gone to understand what they are for or against. Not a good indicator.

[Sandra]

Most that are in nursing homes are too far gone to understand what they are for or against. Not a good indicator.

They are brought in by the nursing home and are the most faithful of voters.

[MozoVote]

There must be a huge underground economy in Europe, people paying cash under the table to get things done, in order to avoid 20% service fees.

[wsc321]

@The Count: good post. Thanks for the insight.

[Freedom 4 all]

There must be a huge underground economy in Europe, people paying cash under the table to get things done, in order to avoid 20% service fees.

But check it bro, paying high taxes is totally DOPE yo. Underground economy is squaresville dawg.

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/contest/index.html

[Bucjason]

"it's NOT A TUMOR!!"

- Arnold Swartzenaegger

[JoshLowry]

Rand Paul brought up some good points on how they limit eye surgeries and medicine in England.

YouTube - Doctors Ron Paul & Rand Paul On Health Care Reform (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INtoIkn0k28)

Watch it if you missed it! It's an eye opening clip. (No pun intended) :)

[the count]

There must be a huge underground economy in Europe, people paying cash under the table to get things done, in order to avoid 20% service fees.

while there is one, its not as big as one might expect. people are used to paying through the nose over there. do not forget that even the more right wing parties in europe are left of the democrats over here and decades of brainwashing by the socialists in the 80s and 90s have succeeded in people believing that the government is there to take care of everything.

[Freedom 4 all]

That's depressing. I though Austria would be unlike the rest of Europe. Out of curiosity, is Austrian economics even used at all in Austria? Do they at least have the gold standard?

[morran]

That's depressing. I though Austria would be unlike the rest of Europe. Out of curiosity, is Austrian economics even used at all in Austria? Do they at least have the gold standard?

The Euro.

[specsaregood]

The thing is, we won't even get socialized medicine. We'll get even worse system of fascist medicine. It'll be another trick to fleece the people and empower the rich.

[Brassmouth]

They are brought in by the nursing home and are the most faithful of voters.

Surprise, surprise, the "GIMME!" generation loves to vote instead of work.

[BenIsForRon]

Count, here's an important question. How would you compare the quality of life of people near the poverty line there vs here?

[the count]

Count, here's an important question. How would you compare the quality of life of people near the poverty line there vs here?

it is really, really hard to go totally homeless there because if your unemployment runs out social safety net #1 kicks in, and after that social safety net #2... which equates to something like 700 euros a month for a single. you wont be living on the street but your meals will be hot dogs and pbj's.

in spite of all this you will see beggars and true homeless people (many more now than 1o years ago), many are drug addicts and/or 'tourist beggars' from the old communist countries rumania, bulgaria, etc.

[JeNNiF00F00]

it is really, really hard to go totally homeless there because if your unemployment runs out social safety net #1 kicks in, and after that social safety net #2... which equates to something like 700 euros a month for a single. you wont be living on the street but your meals will be hot dogs and pbj's.

in spite of all this you will see beggars and true homeless people (many more now than 1o years ago), many are drug addicts and/or 'tourist beggars' from the old communist countries rumania, bulgaria, etc.

Heres a pic of a beggar in Prague. Its really pitiful the way they do this. You never see their face they just kneel down and hold their heads down. But the socialism is GREAT!!
http://i32.tinypic.com/ve3ajk.jpg

[JeNNiF00F00]

http://i30.tinypic.com/xujwz.jpg

A closeup. Like I said. Pitiful.

[canadian4ronpaul]

meh...at least his clothes arent that bad... ive seen much worse in canada.

i can give some of my personal feelings about canadian healthcare while im here.

to be honest, i would never trade what we've got now for what you have. im sorry. sure ya the hospitals and great and its state of teh art healthcare...but in the end...if you are poor, you are fucked. insurance companies can drop you like its nothing, and you can get buried in mountains of debt. recently i've seen alot of things about euthanasia and healthcare, and how if you are too old then they will just kill you off to save money blah blah blah. but how does that differ from a poor person in america today? maybe it would be easier for an old grandma with cancer to just die rather than burden her family with mountains of debt for that brain surgery. so the problems still exist.

our system isnt bad. a lot of republican politicians and people here get ahold of a few horror stories, which are truly tragic, but then try to paint the entire canadian healthcare system under the same brush. shit like that isnt an everyday occurence. not at all. its the same as michael moore's movie "sicko". takes a few heart wrenching cases and then decides because of this we must change the entire system. when it comes down to it. if i get sick. money is always teh last thing on my mind, which i think greatly adds to teh quality of life here.

that doesnt mean our system is without problems though. the waits times can be pretty ridiculous. this is true. and i have a personal story involving this. before i came to russia i was having terrible stomach pains. turns out i had an ulcer, among other things. it took over 3 weeks with the canadian system, constantly going back to the doctor, doing tests. but getting the results took forever. then i came to russia, went to a private clinic here owned by a european company, and within 2 days i was on medication and on the road to recovery.

each system has its ups and downs. if the american system truly reverted to a free market, unregulated system, that restored the relationship between the patient and doctor then i think it could work out better and prices could begin to drop. however there is also the problem that ordinary people dont know a damned thing about healthcare or diseases. so a doctor could very well just say "ya you need to get 1000 tests done and this surgery" and people would just have to trust them or risk getting sick. so i think it would be difficult for market forces to work like they would for electronics for example because peopels knowledge is so much more limited, and the risk of not getting the product (treatment) is far greater, often times a matter of life and death. in our system, this isnt an issue.

i have rambled ebough and lost my train of thought.

[JeNNiF00F00]

Well where I live we are proud even our homeless lol. I have NEVER seen someone begging on hands and knees for a few coins. With a pet rat and dog to boot. He was so ashamed he wouldn't show his face.

[Freedom 4 all]

meh...at least his clothes arent that bad... ive seen much worse in canada.

Working at a mission in Ottawa was an interesting and confusing experience. They get good food and can stay there when needed. The people that work there are unbelievably kind and help the homeless find jobs and even allow them to stay and eat while still working until they save enough to become independent. The wierd thing was that there was always food left over and beds empty and yet there were still homeless I've never seen seek help begging like a block away.

[Deborah K]

i have spent a total of 20 years living in austria, a typical central european country that has had socialized medicine for decades. so i have experienced both the good and the bad sides of this and i am sure you people would like to hear how it works in practice.

1) do not expect doctors to give you a lot of their time. doctors get paid a (ridiculously low) flat fee for seeing a patient. for each procedure done they get paid extra. i rarely spoke to a doctor for more than 10 minutes and the next patient is called. they got to make up for the low fee in quantity. if possible they will have you come in for a second visit (hence another fee), this is especially prevalent with dentists. gov. health care covers the most basic dental proceedures like fillings, extractions, root canal, but no more. doctors offices there do not have that 'living room like' look to them, more the very basic not very inviting stark look.

2) all the government health insurance providers are totally in the red. billions in debt. and this in spite of the fact that europeans are taxed to death. socialized medicine has a huge cost, even though health care providers get paid maybe a third of what the get here. example: a brain MRI in the U.S. costs about $3000 without insurance. cost in europe: 600 euros, thats about 900 dollars at the current exchange rate. and yes, it is nice to know that no matter how sick you are you will not be bankrupt by getting medical attention. and that you will never have to chose between eating or being able to afford your medicine.

3) do not believe obama, reid and pelosy when they say socialized medicine will not add to those who now have insurance. maybe not in direct payments to the insurance carrier but ALL WILL PAY, one way or another. how about $7 for a gallon of gas? 30% income tax even for those with low incomes? sales tax of 20% on EVERYTHING, incl. services? well, thats europe for you.

4) yes, i think we are all overpaying for medicine and medical services here. but what the government is planning will ultimately cost everybody a fortune.

5) the obama administration ultimately has a socialist agenda that it wants to cram down our throats. socialists ALWAYS believe that THEY knows whats best for everybody. they do not react kindly to any opposing view while expecting all others to see things their way.

Gonna send along your post to Dobbs and FNC.