Blue Laws - Yay or Nay

[Met Income]

This is a friend's response:

"While the blue laws were originally for religious purposes, they are kept for other reasons now. It is more about quality of life issue than a religious issue. There is no reason to get rid of these laws, so we don't. We like having them, even if our reasons are not religious.

It's like the full-service gas pumping; originally that law was for safety and security purposes, but nowadays, with credit card auth's right at the pump and higher technology pumps, it's not necessary. But, we don't switch to self-service because there's no good reason to do so.

So, while the law that's on the books is there for a particular reason that is outdated, we still want the law in effect, albeit for different reasons.

What's interesting is that nobody who is against our Blue Laws has given a good reason as to why they shoulld be overturned. For the wealthy retailers to make an extra buck? Forget that - they make enough without being open Sunday. So some spoiled brat can buy some junk on a Sunday despite having the entire rest of the week to shop? Screw them - for one day a week they can go to a neighboring county if shopping is that important to them.

I have yet to hear a good reason for overturning the blue laws, much like I have yet to hear a good reason for bringing self-service to NJ."




It refers to an NJ counties Blue Laws that do not allow shopping on Sunday. What say you? Thanks!

[Scofield]

What's interesting is that nobody who is against our Blue Laws has given a good reason as to why they shoulld be overturned. For the wealthy retailers to make an extra buck? Forget that - they make enough without being open Sunday. So some spoiled brat can buy some junk on a Sunday despite having the entire rest of the week to shop? Screw them - for one day a week they can go to a neighboring county if shopping is that important to them.


It's like the full-service gas pumping; originally that law was for safety and security purposes, but nowadays, with credit card auth's right at the pump and higher technology pumps, it's not necessary. But, we don't switch to self-service because there's no good reason to do so.

That should be at the discretion of the business owner, not the government.

Your friend has no concept of property rights.

[brandon]

Of course we should get rid of blue laws





It's like the full-service gas pumping; originally that law was for safety and security purposes, but nowadays, with credit card auth's right at the pump and higher technology pumps, it's not necessary. But, we don't switch to self-service because there's no good reason to do so.


Yes there is! Your friend is really dim-witted.

For starters, there is often long waits at gas stations in NJ. Not because there aren't enough pumps available, but because they don't have enough employees to keep them all open. Sometimes I have to wait like 10 minutes at the gas station on the AC expressway, even though there are like 8 unused pumps. It's crazy.

Furthermore, the gas station owners have the extra expense of paying the workers so it drives the price of the fuel up a couple extra cents.

[Anti Federalist]

I lived for a while in Ocean Grove NJ.

This was over 20 years ago, so I don't know if it's still the same, but "blue laws" prohibited one from driving in the town on Sunday.

Very "un freedom" of me to think so, but really, I don't mind the idea at a practical, not philosophical, level.

The idea of having one day a week free from commerce and the "rat race" is not a bad idea.

If I had one around where I live, I'd patronize a "Chick-fil-A" or "In N' Out" for that reason.

[Krugerrand]

I'm okay with anything below the state level. Leave it up to the communities. If the communities don't like the laws, it's up to them to change them.

If a borough or township wants certain blue laws, that's their prerogative. If they want an ordinance that makes it difficult to open a WalMart, too bad WalMart. If they want a ordinance that shuts down bars, too bad would-be bar owners.

[Krugerrand]

Of course we should get rid of blue laws
For starters, there is often long waits at gas stations in NJ. Not because there aren't enough pumps available, but because they don't have enough employees to keep them all open. Sometimes I have to wait like 10 minutes at the gas station on the AC expressway, even though there are like 8 unused pumps. It's crazy.

Furthermore, the gas station owners have the extra expense of paying the workers so it drives the price of the fuel up a couple extra cents.

That's state level ... so I'm less inclined to support it ... but if the residents don't like it, take steps to get the law changed.

[Elwar]

I like blue laws because I don't think that males and females should have sex in any other position than missionary.

Also, pumping gas yourself is far too close to simulating anal sex and thus is the work of the devil.

I believe that it was probably a given that the Constitution only applies Monday through Saturday and that on Sunday freedom needs to take a day of rest. They probably even brought it up only briefly..."Ya, but these rights don't apply to Sunday right? Don't be rediculous, of course not...everyone knows that Sunday is completely different from other days...it has the word 'sun' in it for a reason!".

Ya, good ol' blue laws...it's a window into what tyranny would look like...so you get a taste of what a nanny state would look like...if even for just a day.

[teamrican1]

Well, your friend sounds pretty dim witted to me if he genuinely can't think of any arguments against those two things. In terms of mandatory gas station attendants, it drives up the price of gasoline and frequently makes the process of filling ones tank in New Jersey a time consuming pain in the rear. I'd also add that it kind of makes your state a laughing stock to the rest of the nation, as your politicians are the only ones in the entire country who apparently believe their residents are too stupid to pump their own gas (and just as a clarification for those unfamiliar with America's armpit, it isn't just that attendants need to be provided- it is actually illegal for anybody to pump their own gas in New Jersey, even if they want to).

Blue Laws are equally idiotic. First off, any business that wants to close on Sundays (for religious or quality of life reasons) is already free to do so. If this is important to you, frequent and support these establishments. But for everybody else, it's just a pain in the rear. Also, it reduces the potential workweek by 14%. That might not matter to your well off liberal friend, but for the unemployed or people struggling to make ends meet, that forced reduction in the labor force is a very, very big deal.

[Anti Federalist]

I like blue laws because I don't think that males and females should have sex in any other position than missionary.

Also, pumping gas yourself is far too close to simulating anal sex and thus is the work of the devil.

I believe that it was probably a given that the Constitution only applies Monday through Saturday and that on Sunday freedom needs to take a day of rest. They probably even brought it up only briefly..."Ya, but these rights don't apply to Sunday right? Don't be rediculous, of course not...everyone knows that Sunday is completely different from other days...it has the word 'sun' in it for a reason!".

Ya, good ol' blue laws...it's a window into what tyranny would look like...so you get a taste of what a nanny state would look like...if even for just a day.

We already are in a tyrannical nanny state.

From a completely anecdotal perspective, you could argue that "blue laws", far from being tools of repression, are just the opposite. Perhaps by forcing people to slow down for one day and think or meditate or pray or whatever, maybe a better understanding of what is happening to us might present itself.

[Krugerrand]

Well, your friend sounds pretty dim witted to me if he genuinely can't think of any arguments against those two things. In terms of mandatory gas station attendants, it drives up the price of gasoline and frequently makes the process of filling ones tank in New Jersey a time consuming pain in the rear. I'd also add that it kind of makes your state a laughing stock to the rest of the nation, as your politicians are the only ones in the entire country who apparently believe their residents are too stupid to pump their own gas (and just as a clarification for those unfamiliar with America's armpit, it isn't just that attendants need to be provided- it is actually illegal for anybody to pump their own gas in New Jersey, even if they want to).

Blue Laws are equally idiotic. First off, any business that wants to close on Sundays (for religious or quality of life reasons) is already free to do so. If this is important to you, frequent and support these establishments. But for everybody else, it's just a pain in the rear. Also, it reduces the potential workweek by 14%. That might not matter to your well off liberal friend, but for the unemployed or people struggling to make ends meet, that forced reduction in the labor force is a very, very big deal.

The residents of NJ that I knew liked the gas pumping law. They saw it as ... every gas station has an attendant anyway - why should the person paid to be there sit inside doing nothing and make everybody get out of their cars rather than have the person being paid actually do something and everyone else not get out of their cars.

Local ordinances are not all that terrible. I don't want my next door neighbor turning his house into a grocery store. Yes, it is his property, but fortunately, zoning laws don't allow it.

Laws that keep stores closed on Sundays keep places like WalMart out of their town. If that's what the residents want ... that's fine with me. I'll go somewhere else to go to WalMart.

Character and charm are important aspects to some neighborhoods and villages. Whether or not they allow bars changes that character. If the residents want to protect the character and charm, that's their business to do so. If you live there and want it changed, work to have the laws changed. In most cases you'll find it difficult because that's what the residents want.

[Krugerrand]

I like blue laws because I don't think that males and females should have sex in any other position than missionary.

Also, pumping gas yourself is far too close to simulating anal sex and thus is the work of the devil.

I believe that it was probably a given that the Constitution only applies Monday through Saturday and that on Sunday freedom needs to take a day of rest. They probably even brought it up only briefly..."Ya, but these rights don't apply to Sunday right? Don't be rediculous, of course not...everyone knows that Sunday is completely different from other days...it has the word 'sun' in it for a reason!".

Ya, good ol' blue laws...it's a window into what tyranny would look like...so you get a taste of what a nanny state would look like...if even for just a day.

Or, rather than tyrannical, the blue laws are communities' ways of protecting themselves from corporatism.

[1000-points-of-fright]

From a completely anecdotal perspective, you could argue that "blue laws", far from being tools of repression, are just the opposite. Perhaps by forcing people to slow down for one day and think or meditate or pray or whatever, maybe a better understanding of what is happening to us might present itself.

Forcing? Sounds pretty repressive to me. What if I don't want to slow down for one day and think or meditate or pray or whatever?

That being said, if they want to have these stupid olde timey laws they are free to do so. As far as I know, nobody is being FORCED to live in New Jersey.... yet.

[Anti Federalist]

Forcing? Sounds pretty repressive to me. What if I don't want to slow down for one day and think or meditate or pray or whatever?

That being said, if they want to have these stupid olde timey laws they are free to do so. As far as I know, nobody is being FORCED to live in New Jersey.... yet.

It does.

I can't defend it from a legal perspective.

And it certainly does little good, NJ being one of the most repressive states in the country.

It's just a shame, that's all, that maybe one day could go by without the "hustle" couldn't be reality.

[Peace&Freedom]

On balance, it would take more repression to remove every blue law from the books of local communities than it would to tolerate local areas deciding this for themselves, who in a few cases are still opting for it. Businesses disadvantaged by the local law can opt to vote with their feet (as with other laws) and relocate, or lobby for local repeal or reform.

As we can see just from the myriad threads on this board, supporters of liberty disagree on many aspects of applying the non-initiation of force principle to all issues, and on how universally that application should extend. There is no one size fits all solution to all situations, so let the communities evolve their own approach, while not imposing the same across the whole nation.

[free.alive]

Blue Laws should be abolished, but at the local level, not at the Federal, state or sometimes even county level. The people of that jurisdiction need to be persuaded to Liberty.

[NYgs23]

What's interesting is that nobody who is against our Blue Laws has given a good reason as to why they shoulld be overturned.

Because they're aggressive? Isn't that enough?