Angry Mob of Racist Extremists Beats Black Man at Town Hall Meeting

[Chieftain1776]

From Patterico's Pontifications: (http://patterico.com/2009/08/06/angry-mob-of-racist-extremists-beats-black-man-at-town-hall-meeting/)

I guess the Democrats were right after all. At a town meeting held by a Democrat congressman, a rowdy group of organized and angry thugs showed up to make a point about ObamaCare, and then beat up a man. Race was involved, too: the victim was black — attacked by a man yelling racial slurs.

It’s every Democrat talking point (http://patterico.com/2009/08/06/l-a-times-uncritically-spouts-democrat-talking-points-on-obamacare/) you’ve read about in the last day or two, come to life in an ugly fashion.

With one twist (http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/laworder/story/0470FEB3219207458625760B001142AC?OpenDocument). The black victim was a conservative [Note: He was not see UPDATE III below], and the assailants may well have been union thugs (http://hotair.com/archives/2009/08/06/st-louis-town-hall-protesters-locked-out-while-seiu-is-admitted/):

Kenneth Gladney, a 38-year-old conservative activist from St. Louis, said he was attacked by some of those arrested as he handed out yellow flags with “Don’t tread on me” printed on them. He spoke to the Post-Dispatch from the emergency room of the St. John’s Mercy Medical Center, where he said he was waiting to be treated for injuries to his knee, back, elbow, shoulder and face that he suffered in the attack. Gladney, who is black, said one of his attackers, also a black man, used a racial slur against him before the attack started.

“It just seems there’s no freedom of speech without being attacked,” he said.

Not when you have angry mobs of left-wing extremists around . . .

UPDATE! Video of Attack via Gateway Pundit. (http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2009/08/tea-party-protesters-attacked-1-man.html) Caution :eek: Cursing in Video.. EDIT: Better quality video posted.

YouTube - Fight at Russ Carnahan Town Hall Event - Raw Video (8/6/09) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTXBOgPCh9w)

UPDATE II: From Liberty Rebellion:


New footage! Union member who attacked the black conservative handing out flags says he attacked him becuase "he attacked America"!

My friend Kelly, who is recording and a member of CFL, is attacked in this video as well

YouTube - Pro Health Control Angry Mobs Attack People - Carnahan Town Hall 8/6/09 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjzEPcp3r7U)


UPDATE III: On Fox News with anchor Neil Cavuto (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=2253622#post2253622), the victim stated he has "no opinion" on the health care issue and was simply selling Don't Tread On Me/Gadsden Flags to make an "honest dollar".

[max]

From Patterico's Pontifications: (http://patterico.com/2009/08/06/angry-mob-of-racist-extremists-beats-black-man-at-town-hall-meeting/)

I guess the Democrats were right after all. At a town meeting held by a Democrat congressman, a rowdy group of organized and angry thugs showed up to make a point about ObamaCare, and then beat up a man. Race was involved, too: the victim was black — attacked by a man yelling racial slurs.

It’s every Democrat talking point you’ve read about in the last day or two, come to life in an ugly fashion.

With one twist. The black victim was a conservative, and the assailants may well have been union thugs:

Kenneth Gladney, a 38-year-old conservative activist from St. Louis, said he was attacked by some of those arrested as he handed out yellow flags with “Don’t tread on me” printed on them. He spoke to the Post-Dispatch from the emergency room of the St. John’s Mercy Medical Center, where he said he was waiting to be treated for injuries to his knee, back, elbow, shoulder and face that he suffered in the attack. Gladney, who is black, said one of his attackers, also a black man, used a racial slur against him before the attack started.

“It just seems there’s no freedom of speech without being attacked,” he said.

Not when you have angry mobs of left-wing extremists around . . .

Thanks to Thomas A.

sounds like a clear violation of hate-crime law.

[MsDoodahs]

Any NEWS sites reporting this, or is it just blogs?

edited to add, YES - news sites ARE reporting it, appears legitimate.

The left sites have been suggesting that they themselves initiate violence and attempt to pin it on BO Care opposition.

Looks like this was their first go at it....

[Working Poor]

I wonder how we can send out our support to the man who was attacked. Let's do everything to keep this from being about race.

[Stary Hickory]

sounds like a clear violation of hate-crime law.

Exactly, and they beat up one of our own. That enrages me.


PS I don't agree with hate-crime laws, but isn't it ironic?

[Stary Hickory]

I wonder how we can send out our support to the man who was attacked. Let's do everything to keep this from being about race.

Exactly lets take up donations. I can't stand to see this happen.

[pcosmar]

That is a story that will be buried.

However if it were reversed it would be front page nation wide. :(

[Chieftain1776]

Any NEWS sites reporting this, or is it just blogs?

Yeah sorry the original post had the links in them. I just added them now. See OP.

[erowe1]

sounds like a clear violation of hate-crime law.

No, man, you must have missed the part where it said the victim was a conservative.

[acptulsa]

We need to get a video of him on the web.

We probably ought to do a chip-in for him as well.

[max]

will there be a "beer summit?"

[Deborah K]

Sending this to Dobbs, local radio, and FNC.

[Chieftain1776]

UPDATE! Video of Attack via Gateway Pundit. (http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2009/08/tea-party-protesters-attacked-1-man.html)

YouTube - Fight at Russ Carnahan Town Hall Event - Raw Video (8/6/09) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTXBOgPCh9w)

Added to OP!

[acptulsa]

So, Americans of African descent aren't allowed to be conservative? Who's restricting their freedom...?

[Cowlesy]

SEIU thugs huh....

[Deborah K]

There seem to be 2 victims not one. Watch it again.

[Danke]

I like this comment, "Community organizers can't bitch, when communities begin to organize."

[Cowlesy]

That is a story that will be buried.

However if it were reversed it would be front page nation wide. :(

Yep -- exactly.

[Chieftain1776]

SEIU thugs huh....

Looks like it. A black and white thug beat up opponents to Obamacare. SEIU is the equivalent of Iranian Basij during the election crackdown IMO. Close enough to the government to enforce their will but informal enough to be considered a "uncontrollable" by the "regime".

That said I still think we have a civil society vibrant enough to resist without widespread violence or threat of physical oppression.

[jmdrake]

I was about to post this. Hopefully Fox will make political hay out of this. (I cringe everytime I find myself supporting Fox. But the fact is that you usually get the best news from the media aligned with the party out of power.) Get this man on the Tea Party tour bus! He needs to become the Rodney King of the liberty movement.

[Chieftain1776]

I was about to post this. Hopefully Fox will make political hay out of this. (I cringe everytime I find myself supporting Fox. But the fact is that you usually get the best news from the media aligned with the party out of power.) Get this man on the Tea Party tour bus! He needs to become the Rodney King of the liberty movement.

I "tipped" Drudge. They are useless...how the hell do they get so many visitors when they're so behind the times.

[catdd]

Swastikas and now this.

[Wise]

This is all a setup. Those goons were payed to attack somebody in line, to cause a scene, to give a reason not to have anymore townhalls, to end the dialog over the bill, to pass the bill, to socialized medical care, to line the pockets of the rich just like always. They will make even more money when we have to pay the same high rates and don't get any care. It isn't even about health care. Its just about money.

[Deborah K]

Beck is opening with this issue: http://den-a.plr.liquidcompass.net/standard_plr/audio_player.php?id=KFMBAM&playerType=wmp

[erowe1]

I "tipped" Drudge. They are useless...how the hell do they get so many visitors when they're so behind the times.

What are you talking about? Drudge was on this before it was put here. He has the St. Louis story among about half a dozen others prominently at the top left.

[KramerDSP]

I "tipped" Drudge. They are useless...how the hell do they get so many visitors when they're so behind the times.

Tipped Drudge too. Suggest you all do the same.

[Chieftain1776]

What are you talking about? Drudge was on this before it was put here. He has the St. Louis story among about half a dozen others prominently at the top left.

I could have missed it. The video still isn't there though.

[MsDoodahs]

This is all a setup. Those goons were payed to attack somebody in line, to cause a scene, to give a reason not to have anymore townhalls, to end the dialog over the bill, to pass the bill, to socialized medical care, to line the pockets of the rich just like always. They will make even more money when we have to pay the same high rates and don't get any care. It isn't even about health care. Its just about money.

Yes a setup but I don't think it's exclusively about healthcare.

I think BO and his fanatical ilk would like nothing better than to see violence erupting nationwide...because the left knows that the only way they can disarm the population is through some civil unrest.

This just happens to be the flashpoint issue.

:eek:

someone quick - get me some damned TINFOIL!!!!!!

[erowe1]

I could have missed it. The video still isn't there though.

I know his link says "video" on it. I didn't click that one, so it might be different. But he definitely has the St. Louis event up there. And I know I saw it there before I saw it here. He also has another video available with another guy getting roughed up by union thugs in a different city I think, not a black guy, not as badly, and as far as I saw entirely without consequences.

[erowe1]

I could have missed it. The video still isn't there though.

OK. I just checked, the video he has for the St. Louis event is this one:
http://www.breitbart.tv/st-louis-town-hall-turmoil-were-protesters-barred-as-union-members-entered/

"St. Louis Town Hall Turmoil: Were Protesters Barred as Union Members Entered?"

It doesn't look like it has the beating.

[Cowlesy]

They may have turned the heat up a bit too fast on the frog in the pot.

[erowe1]

They may have turned the heat up a bit too fast on the frog in the pot.

That's a good thing.

In fact, if anything, that fact alone makes me thing it was better for Obama to be elected than McCain.

[brandon]

Oh wow, what a twisted story.

Poor guy.

[ForLiberty-RonPaul]

It is quite clear to me that the agenda now is to use provocateurs in order to insight violence at these peaceful protests and gatherings. We must be extremely vigilant and watchful. Also, we need to shed as much light on these people as possible. Film them and put it on youtube ASAP. All effort should be used to identify and publicly display and denounce these people.

A useful tool when it looks like violence will ensue is to sit down. If everyone sits quietly, agents will be easy to spot.

[catdd]

I said on the swastika thread that it was probably left-wing extremists trying to sabotage us, using the same method the Daily KOS guy was doing on the internet.
Now, if this isn't the case then WHO are these people???

If they really are right-wing extremists then don't they understand that this is the best way to get the Health Plan passed?

[acptulsa]

A useful tool when it looks like violence will ensue is to sit down. If everyone sits quietly, agents will be easy to spot.

Works for me--until the camera has got definite proof of who started it.

Once that's done, I'd be inclined to fight to win. :mad:

[Deborah K]

It is quite clear to me that the agenda now is to use provocateurs in order to insight violence at these peaceful protests and gatherings. We must be extremely vigilant and watchful. Also, we need to shed as much light on these people as possible. Film them and put it on youtube ASAP. All effort should be used to identify and publicly display and denounce these people.

A useful tool when it looks like violence will ensue is to sit down. If everyone sits quietly, agents will be easy to spot.

LOVE this!!

[Anti Federalist]

Alex Jones commenting on this now.

www.infowars.com

[Pod]

Alex Jones commenting on this now.

www.infowars.com

Cheers.

[KramerDSP]

This stuff is getting out of control. I love the analogy about the pot being boiled too quickly and the Frogs realizing it. I don't know about you guys, but I think this is just the beginning of things.

I saw a great article talking about Health Care. It's written by a guy who voted for Kerry over Bush in 2004, and pretty much destroys all insinuating arguments posted by those in favor of ObamaCare on message boards. Check it out here (http://sadelephant.org/2009/07/22/argument-writing-for-liberals-101/#comment-148). It's brilliant, scathing, and dead-on, IMHO.

Last night, I switched over to Rachel Maddow's show, and saw her using the term "anti-health care reformers". Terrible. I was disgusted. I feel we are all being manipulated by both parties in evident and blantant ways to such a degree rarely seen before in this country's history. We need homemade signs that clearly say "Bush sucks! Prosecute Cheney for War Crimes! ObamaCare sucks! Bring our Troops Home!".

We need not allow the GOP to shoe-horn us into this one message of ObamaCare sucks. We need to not play their game, but use the publicity present at these events to shout out the freedom message and wake some more people's eyes up. Most of the message board commentators on news sites clearly are under the impression that the protestors are all Neo-Con diehard GOP to the bone supporters. There are ways that we can spread this message effectively and peacefully, and then there are other ways, which include pursuing the BC angle, which IMHO is a well-intentioned but misguided avenue that takes energy away from what those who support the freedom movement are trying to do.

We need to continue hammering home ALL three or four of our core messages at these events, or else we're just playing right into the Republicrats hands. At this rate, things inch closer and closer to martial law and a police state. Change, baby. Change.

[KramerDSP]

Oh, and I wanted to add this, too. Signs should say things like "YES, I want Health Care Reform. NO, I don't want ObamaCare! Have YOU read this bill?". Stuff that allows us not to be painted into a tiny corner of the population and dismissed.

[acptulsa]

Good post. Almost perfect, but there was one thing I noticed:


Most of the message board commentators on news sites clearly are out to purposely create the false impression that the protestors are all Neo-Con diehard GOP to the bone supporters.

But I fixed it for you.

[Deborah K]

Oh, and I wanted to add this, too. Signs should say things like "YES, I want Health Care Reform. NO, I don't want ObamaCare! Have YOU read this bill?". Stuff that allows us not to be painted into a tiny corner of the population and dismissed.

Yes!!

[Deborah K]

This stuff is getting out of control. I love the analogy about the pot being boiled too quickly and the Frogs realizing it. I don't know about you guys, but I think this is just the beginning of things.

I saw a great article talking about Health Care. It's written by a guy who voted for Kerry over Bush in 2004, and pretty much destroys all insinuating arguments posted by those in favor of ObamaCare on message boards. Check it out here (http://sadelephant.org/2009/07/22/argument-writing-for-liberals-101/#comment-148). It's brilliant, scathing, and dead-on, IMHO.

Last night, I switched over to Rachel Maddow's show, and saw her using the term "anti-health care reformers". Terrible. I was disgusted. I feel we are all being manipulated by both parties in evident and blantant ways to such a degree rarely seen before in this country's history. We need homemade signs that clearly say "Bush sucks! Prosecute Cheney for War Crimes! ObamaCare sucks! Bring our Troops Home!".

We need not allow the GOP to shoe-horn us into this one message of ObamaCare sucks. We need to not play their game, but use the publicity present at these events to shout out the freedom message and wake some more people's eyes up. Most of the message board commentators on news sites clearly are under the impression that the protestors are all Neo-Con diehard GOP to the bone supporters. There are ways that we can spread this message effectively and peacefully, and then there are other ways, which include pursuing the BC angle, which IMHO is a well-intentioned but misguided avenue that takes energy away from what those who support the freedom movement are trying to do.

We need to continue hammering home ALL three or four of our core messages at these events, or else we're just playing right into the Republicrats hands. At this rate, things inch closer and closer to martial law and a police state. Change, baby. Change.


Good stuff! Gonna post it in another thread of mine.

[nayjevin]

It is quite clear to me that the agenda now is to use provocateurs in order to insight violence at these peaceful protests and gatherings. We must be extremely vigilant and watchful. Also, we need to shed as much light on these people as possible. Film them and put it on youtube ASAP. All effort should be used to identify and publicly display and denounce these people.

A useful tool when it looks like violence will ensue is to sit down. If everyone sits quietly, agents will be easy to spot.

Perhaps decentralizing and using technology can solve that. Organize in tiny groups everywhere, and share cell phone videos.

[KramerDSP]

Good post. Almost perfect, but there was one thing I noticed:



But I fixed it for you.

Thanks for the fix! :D

[catdd]

Yeah, we have to condemn those actions but stick to our guns.

[Endgame]

I hope this is on Beck tonight. Lets make sure it is.

[Deborah K]

I hope this is on Beck tonight. Lets make sure it is.

I sent it to him earlier. He alluded to it on the radio in a CYA sort of way. :rolleyes: If he's smart, he'll use this to further expose the the hypocrisy.

But do send it to him. The more people who do, the more inclined he'll be to cover it.

[phill4paul]

Oh, and I wanted to add this, too. Signs should say things like "YES, I want Health Care Reform. NO, I don't want ObamaCare! Have YOU read this bill?". Stuff that allows us not to be painted into a tiny corner of the population and dismissed.

Well I suppose I'd be painting myself into a corner, but I'll just have to let my freak flag fly w/ this sign...


I'm neither Republicrat
nor Democan,
I'm an Independent!
If you were too you wouldn't need
ObamaCare!

[MsDoodahs]

Well I suppose I'd be painting myself into a corner, but I'll just have to let my freak flag fly w/ this sign...


I'm neither Republicrat
nor Democan,
I'm an Independent!
If you were too you wouldn't need
ObamaCare!

I like it! :)

[Liberty Rebellion]

New footage! Union member who attacked the black conservative handing out flags says he attacked him becuase "he attacked America"!

My friend Kelly, who is recording and a member of CFL, is attacked in this video as well

YouTube - Pro Health Control Angry Mobs Attack People - Carnahan Town Hall 8/6/09 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjzEPcp3r7U&feature=player_profilepage)

[angelatc]

SEIU thugs huh....

That's it. Obama literally called out the union dogs to push back. They're a violent organization by nature. There's no point in pretending otherwise.

[catdd]

I just read that he was handing out Gadsden flags and the guy that made the racial remark was black also.
These are left-wing extremists doing the attacking.

[acptulsa]

The really, really sad part goes beyond these SEIU employees violating the hell out of Hippocrates. The really, really sad part is how screwed these SEIU idiots are going to be if they get what they think is 'their way' on this thing.

[Chieftain1776]

New footage! Union member who attacked the black conservative handing out flags says he attacked him becuase "he attacked America"!

My friend Kelly, who is recording and a member of CFL, is attacked in this video as well



Thanks going to add it to the OP. I'm pretty steamed :mad:

[MsDoodahs]

That's it. Obama literally called out the union dogs to push back. They're a violent organization by nature. There's no point in pretending otherwise.

Yes, Obama did call these thugs out.

I saw stuff yesterday on the liberal sites about HCAN sending out emails to bring them out to the townhalls. I never saw the text, and couldn't find a link, else I would have posted it here already.

They got the call and they responded and now, we have people being beaten up.

:mad:

[acptulsa]

They got the call and they responded and now, we have people being beaten up.

:mad:

Not that they're brownshirts or anything...

[Mini-Me]

I'm not sure how much this man would appreciate becoming the "poster child" of alienated black conservatives/libertarians...after all, smearing the entire opposition with the racist brush due to a few racist union assholes would be just as opportunistic, collectivist, and generally slimy as what they're always doing to us.

Still, it pisses me off that this happened to him for being black and daring to speak out against the mob...and it pisses me off even more considering he was obviously one of our own, given the Gadsden Flag. It says DON'T tread, you illiterate fucks. :mad:

[BenIsForRon]

Yes, Obama did call these thugs out.


Give me a fucking break. I have no doubt SEIU called out some of their guys, but Obama? You're so full of shit. Obama has thousands of people below him taking care of this, he has other things to worry about.

Your kind of language is only going to continue this kind of irrational thinking and violent behavior. Republicans will go into these things thinking the union guys are "Obama's Army", Union people will go in thinking the Republicans are "Blue Cross/Blue Shield's Army" and then everything's going to go to shit.

IT IS IN OUR INTEREST TO KEEP THIS CIVIL! WAKE UP!

[acptulsa]

Give me a fucking break. I have no doubt SEIU called out some of their guys, but Obama? You're so full of shit. Obama has thousands of people below him taking care of this, he has other things to worry about.

WTF?

The White House then. Damn.

Please keep this civil. As in, don't stoop to the White House's level. Not to worry, dude.

[erowe1]

Give me a f-ing break. I have no doubt SEIU called out some of their guys, but Obama? You're so full of s-t. Obama has thousands of people below him taking care of this, he has other things to worry about.

I really don't know who's responsible. So I'm not saying you're wrong. But if Obama has people below him taking care of this, and if those people are in any way responsible for this violence, then Obama is also responsible. That's how delegation works.

[BenIsForRon]

Saying "It's Obama's people" makes the situation sound more simplistic than it is in reality, and it sparks collectivist rage. Not good AT ALL.

[literatim]

White House to Democrats: 'Punch back twice as hard' (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0809/25891.html)

[catdd]

No doubt they are there to do what the police do not have the authority to do.

[MsDoodahs]

Give me a fucking break. I have no doubt SEIU called out some of their guys, but Obama? You're so full of shit. Obama has thousands of people below him taking care of this, he has other things to worry about.

Your kind of language is only going to continue this kind of irrational thinking and violent behavior. Republicans will go into these things thinking the union guys are "Obama's Army", Union people will go in thinking the Republicans are "Blue Cross/Blue Shield's Army" and then everything's going to go to shit.

IT IS IN OUR INTEREST TO KEEP THIS CIVIL! WAKE UP!

What the hell are you talking about? I'm not advocating ANYONE doing ANYTHING OTHER THAN being civil and out there with info for the folks that are present and opposing it.

Do you NOT read liberal sites? The people on some of those are OPENLY STATING that they WANT TO START VIOLENCE and make it APPEAR that those in opposition to BOCare started it.

I'm saying NOTHING EVEN CLOSE to that kind of crap and you damn well know it.

If you're so worried about this shit getting violent, take your happy ass to a lib site and encourage them to remain civil. They need to hear it.

We INTEND to remain civil.

THEY do not.

[BenIsForRon]

What did you think was going to happen? This is politics. Both republicans and democrats are using their base on this thing. If democrats get reform on this, they'll have a better chance at retaining power, if republicans stop the bill, they will have a better shot at gaining some seats next year. The governments getting bigger, so getting you piece of the pie is more important.

We shouldn't pick a side, we should talk to both sides.

[acptulsa]

"They are just helping us understand the fringe that is trying to mess up our meetings,” said Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.)

Just in case someone is convinced MsD's statement above is a 'tinfoil-worthy baseless conspiracy theory'. Yes, they will demonize us any way they can, including by becoming what they profess to detest.

[BenIsForRon]

The republicans are falling right in line, getting violent as well, there are town halls besides this one where violence has occurred. If one side was trying to be nonviolent, it wouldn't be happening this much. The republicans and democrats are being way fucking hard headed on this because their masters in the media are telling them to. My basic point is not to play into the game, we have to hold both sides accountable.

[MsDoodahs]

We shouldn't pick a side, we should talk to both sides.

Well, since you've made your position clear HERE, how's about you mosey on over to some of those liberal forums and get crackin' on them for ENCOURAGING VIOLENCE?

:)

[Objectivist]

The AG won't move on this but he will if you carry a club and are a member of the Black Panthers out intimidating voters.

[paulitics]

What the hell are you talking about? I'm not advocating ANYONE doing ANYTHING OTHER THAN being civil and out there with info for the folks that are present and opposing it.

Do you NOT read liberal sites? The people on some of those are OPENLY STATING that they WANT TO START VIOLENCE and make it APPEAR that those in opposition to BOCare started it.

I'm saying NOTHING EVEN CLOSE to that kind of crap and you damn well know it.

If you're so worried about this shit getting violent, take your happy ass to a lib site and encourage them to remain civil. They need to hear it.

We INTEND to remain civil.

THEY do not.



Amen, we are winning this battle without violence. Agent Provocateurs, 9 times out of 10, are funded by the opposition. This is history. They do not want a debate, as first evident by their attempts to ram it through congress, without discussion. Now, there is a snitching program, and community organizers getting paid to agent provocateur. It may get ugly, but these tactics are coming from those who want to stifle debate.

[Mini-Me]

MsDoodahs, if people on liberal forums are actually advocating false flag violence, can you give us any links to start us off? If it's really that bad, it's probably worth finding all these sites and forums, taking pictures of them, and starting up another page to catalog them...which we can then proceed to spread far and wide on digg, youtube, reddit, etc. to give people a heads up.

[MsDoodahs]

The republicans are falling right in line, getting violent as well, there are town halls besides this one where violence has occurred.

Where is the proof of the opposition getting violent?

As far as I've seen, one incident in Tampa resulted when a union goon through an opposition person against a wall, ripping his shirt and scratching his chest.

The only other incident of violence I'm aware of is the lib goons beating up a black conservative in I think it was MO.

So. Could you please provide links to the news stories where those in opposition to BOCare got violent?

And my basic point is this: STOP ACCUSING US OF ENCOURAGING VIOLENCE BECAUSE WE AREN'T THE ONES DOING IT.

[MsDoodahs]

MsDoodahs, if people on liberal forums are actually advocating false flag violence, can you give us any links to start us off? If it's really that bad, it's probably worth finding all these sites and forums, taking pictures of them, and starting up another page to catalog them...which we can then proceed to spread far and wide on digg, youtube, reddit, etc. to give people a heads up.

I can, but I won't.

You guys know what the liberal sites are.

Go read.

[angelatc]

Denver: A reform supporter ripped a sign away from Obamacare supporter. (http://www.denverpost.com/ci_13011617)

More Tampa: Democrat Treasurer Slaps Tea Party Attendee (http://twitpic.com/d127d)

More TampaYouTube - Kathy Castor - Healthcare Town Hall Meeting in Tampa - 8/6 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kxaGfClPws&feature=player_profilepage)

But the leftists will repeat and repeat and repeat the meme that we're violent, because it will stop people from coming out in support.

[Sandra]

I've been reading conservative and liberal forums. The same kind of discourse is taking place on both. Both are screaming "keep calm" or "disrupt!" or "disrupt the disrupters!". Reactions are about the same, screaming "troll" at all opinions.

[MsDoodahs]

But the leftists will repeat and repeat and repeat the meme that we're violent, because it will stop people from coming out in support.

That is EXACTLY why they're trying to start violence.

[BenIsForRon]

I'm saying that most of you need to understand that these angry republicans are not helping anything. There have been town halls where the anti-public option republicans were much more civil and didn't yell. Guess what? They didn't get kicked out!

These overly angry people are only stifling the debate.

[catdd]

The guy was attacked for handing out gadsden flags by people who accused him of attacking America.
How do you debate that?

[aravoth]

No one here should at all suprised about this. If the history of political turmoil teaches us anything it is simply this....

Leftist movements, always, and I repeat...... ALWAYS, turn violent. It matters not the nation they are born in, or the ideas they espouse, as soon as they are convinced that they are right, they garner the support of millions of intellectual lightweights all of which believe it is a "peoples" revoution. Once the Leftist group believes that thier ideology alone is the only one that has the support of the people, they instinctivly devolop a herd mentality, and in groups, they will fight off any opposing force in thier way.

In thier mindset, it is impossible to do wrong if the support of the people is close behind them.

This will get worse, it always does. It always has.

People doing events like this need to understand what they are walking into. No leftist shift in any nation history happened without desenters getting squashed.

If you are going to attened something like this. You had better not go alone, and you had better be prepared to defend yourself. And always remember. The extreme left that does this shit support gun control, and probably have no weapons themselves. You do.

[MsDoodahs]

The republicans are falling right in line, getting violent as well,

Where is the proof of the opposition getting violent?

As far as I've seen, one incident in Tampa resulted when a union goon threw an opposition person against a wall, ripping his shirt and scratching his chest.

The only other incident of violence I'm aware of is the lib goons beating up a black conservative in I think it was MO.

So. Could you please provide links to the news stories where those in opposition to BOCare got violent?

And my basic point is this: STOP ACCUSING US OF ENCOURAGING VIOLENCE BECAUSE WE AREN'T THE ONES DOING IT.

[catdd]

"No leftist shift in any nation history happened without desenters getting squashed. "

Well Czechoslovakia avoided a war by both sides agreeing to disagree and split up the country peacefully.
We are sitting on a time bomb here and we'd better start considering something similar.

[Epic]

"No leftist shift in any nation history happened without desenters getting squashed. "

Well Czechoslovakia avoided a war by both sides agreeing to disagree and split up the country peacefully.
We are sitting on a time bomb here and we'd better start considering something similar.

Let's all get to New Hampshire.... Free State Project

[Young Paleocon]

"No leftist shift in any nation history happened without desenters getting squashed. "

Well Czechoslovakia avoided a war by both sides agreeing to disagree and split up the country peacefully.
We are sitting on a time bomb in this country and we'd better start considering something similar.

That was an ethnic split between Bohemians, Moravians, and Slovaks which was pretty easily solvable in geographic and political terms. This is an ideological rift between diffuse populations all throughout the country.

[angelatc]

That is EXACTLY why they're trying to start violence.

Absolutely. There's a video out there of the beginning of the Seattle WTO riot that shows it was the police that started the attacks, but it didn't surface until years after it was newsworthy, because the internet wasn't around then.

But OTOH, the bottom line is that they will start violence. It is how they have always achieved their political goals, so we at least have the stereotype to build off of.

The AFL-CIO announced they're sending in goons. http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/06/unions-joining-the-fray-in-health-care-overhaul/#comment-1524119

[catdd]

I don't wan to get off topic with this but it was to settle the differences between democrats and conservatives.
The liberal Movement for a Democratic Slovakia (HZDS), led by Slovak Vladmir Meciar, and the conservative Civic Democratic Party, led by Czech Vclav Klaus won the two largest representations in parliament; each leader became the prime minister of his own republic. Disagreements between the republics intensified, and it became clear that no form of federal government could satisfy both so they split the country.
We would have to do something like a red state-blue state with some in between.

[BenIsForRon]

Where is the proof of the opposition getting violent?

As far as I've seen, one incident in Tampa resulted when a union goon threw an opposition person against a wall, ripping his shirt and scratching his chest.

The only other incident of violence I'm aware of is the lib goons beating up a black conservative in I think it was MO.

So. Could you please provide links to the news stories where those in opposition to BOCare got violent?

And my basic point is this: STOP ACCUSING US OF ENCOURAGING VIOLENCE BECAUSE WE AREN'T THE ONES DOING IT.

I thought that video from denver had Republicans getting violent in it, but it was just a union guy. My bad.

Seriously though, yelling "down with socialism, traitor!" without giving them a chance to speak does not help, and it definitely doesn't help keep things calm. There are better ways to show our opposition right now.

[MsDoodahs]

I thought that video from denver had Republicans getting violent in it, but it was just a union guy. My bad.

Seriously though, yelling "down with socialism, traitor!" without giving them a chance to speak does not help, and it definitely doesn't help keep things calm. There are better ways to show our opposition right now.

I am well aware of that.

It does NO GOOD for us to sit on the sidelines IMO.

I would like to see RP people become the LEVEL HEADED PEOPLE with the HARD HITTING QUESTIONS that gets us respect from BOTH SIDES.

I see this as an OPPORTUNITY to counter the CRAZY label that the media attached to us during Ron's campaign.

[Matt Collins]

YouTube - Kathy Castor Town Hall Erupts in Tampa Florida, August 6th, 2009 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yX4F_cb9AXk&feature=player_embedded)

[Matt Collins]

.....null......

[Mini-Me]

So far, what I've read is halfway "encouraging," in a warped sort of way. The vast majority of comments on both of the liberal sites I visited seem to be from people who are basically just earnest, well-intentioned idiots. They're acting all "afraid" of the "violent" town hall protesters and calling them wingnuts, etc. They obviously have some massive cognitive dissonance about who has actually committed violence so far, but at least I haven't read any posts actually advocating false flag violence...yet. That probably just means I haven't hit the right pages, but at least there's not some kind of extreme Machiavellian consensus over there.

Although I'm not seeing any calls to violence, I AM seeing the same kind of fascist dissent-stifling bullshit that we saw from the Bushies. Some posters are calling for outlawing citizens' gatherings, others are calling for cops to crack down and arrest anyone trying to "disrupt" town hall meetings, etc.

In any case, it's pretty clear what the liberals believe:
They believe that the health insurance companies are behind what they call the "anti-reform" movement, and they're all up in arms about supposed astroturfing, etc. On one hand, they might actually have a point on that one, since the health insurance industry would also naturally want to oppose this socialist "reform," albeit for wayyy different reasons than us. On the other hand, they're completely forgetting that big pharma is peeing its pants in gleeful anticipation for Obamacare, which makes the corporate meddling from the current healthcare sector somewhat of a wash. Furthermore, they're ignorant of the fact that the MSM is largely in support of Obama, socialism, and wholesale centralization of power in general. I guess I understand why they feel like they're the "anti-establishment underdogs," but we will all pay for their delusions. :(

The vast majority of liberals are obviously forgetting that there are any options besides Obamacare and the current system, so they consider anyone against Obamacare to be "anti-reformers." They also basically consider everyone upset about Obamacare to be "dangerous and violent" neanderthals who are being riled up by guys like Glenn Beck...and oh yeah, I've seen at least one authoritarian call for someone to "shut down" basically anyone in the media who is anti-Obamacare or fueling people's [righteous] anger. BLAH.

Anyway, I'm seeing a ton of arrogant liberal smarminess, authoritarian bullshit, and half-baked partisan "insights" into the astroturfing going on...but at least so far, I haven't seen anyone actually calling for false flag violence. It's bad, but it could be worse.

[InterestedParticipant]

This entire event is a setup. All sides are paid.

It's a sting, and the public are the mark, and you're eating it up just like you're supposed to.

The best the public can do is shout angry slogans.... that's what this video is supposed to show. We're animals who are incapable of sitting down and engaging in a logical, rational, calm, adult-level conversation.... at least that is what the public is supposed to believe. So, when the draconian measure are unleashed to quell the masses, it can be justified as being done for our own protection against ourselves.

When will people see through all of these transparent techniques?

[Deborah K]

This entire event is a setup. All sides are paid.

It's a sting, and the public are the mark, and you're eating it up just like you're supposed to.

The best the public can do is shout angry slogans.... that's what this video is supposed to show. We're animals who are incapable of sitting down and engaging in a logical, rational, calm, adult-level conversation.... at least that is what the public is supposed to believe. So, when the draconian measure are unleashed to quell the masses, it can be justified as being done for our own protection against ourselves.

When will people see through all of these transparent techniques?

And your solution izzzzzz........??????

[InterestedParticipant]

And your solution izzzzzz........??????
Stop being manipulated by the psychopaths. They're leading us around by the nose and mocking us while they do it.

[Mini-Me]

Stop being manipulated by the psychopaths. They're leading us around by the nose and mocking us while they do it.

You're very good at telling everybody what NOT to do, but do you have any more...proactive...suggestions?

[Deborah K]

Stop being manipulated by the psychopaths. They're leading us around by the nose and mocking us while they do it.

And your solution izzzzzz....?????

[InterestedParticipant]

You're very good at telling everybody what NOT to do, but do you have any more...proactive...suggestions?
Look, they are using victim groups to create dialectics that are employed to exert forces on society. It's Newton's laws of Nature applied to society. These forces are applied by manipulating the public into acting in specific prescribed ways, in order to attain their goals.

They are utterly weak. They can only modify society by getting the public to do their bidding.

The only way to stop the changes on society is to stop being manipulated by them. To act as individuals as God had intended. As soon as we do this, they lose control, as they lose their grip on the public and their continued ability to manipulate us, and therefore society.

This is the ONLY WAY to stop them!

Try to understand this from an interview with Robert Hullot-Kentor....
http://brooklynrail.org/2007/03/art/robert-hullot


So what’s a person to do who has few illusions about the situation? Adorno recommended something modest, but it would be half utopian right this moment: “You,” he was talking to his students, and I’m just half remembering this ‘you don’t have to play along completely; you can do things a little differently.’ That word “difference” took a considerable beating over the last few decades. But, Paul, you indicated what would make a difference, if a modest one: instead of functioning as the point where all those connections you were talking about a second ago are made; instead of being the synaptic co-ordination for the sales brigade; instead of eagerly handing the baton along—it can be intercepted and set quietly on the ground. You can not make the connection. You can cause a Bermuda triangle to settle over the scene of industrial entertainment. It’s a pleasure listening for the engines to conk out, where the conversation folds up and pitches into the waves. You might not know what that movie was about, and are indifferent anyway; maybe you can’t recognize the punch line to that advertisement; maybe you don’t know which team plays which sport; or maybe you couldn’t escape knowing the ad lines, or the movie plot, but you do as if. It’s a possibility. One can save the capacity of familiarity for what might be genuinely familiar. I wish people would. Let the big ship leave by itself, one rider less.

[aravoth]

I Have a solution.

How about we let this thing heat up, hope and pray that it gets worse. Then when all of Congress is back in DC getting ready to vote on this, Everyone on this board, and other Libertarians throughout the country encircle DC, arrest Everyone in the GOP and the Democrats. Throw all of them in a fenced in tent city. Put a sign in front of it that says "Free Speech Zone".

While they are there, we'll illegally search thier personal property, and illegally seize whatever we want. Maybe we can even set up a theme park in this tent city. We could call it, the "Waterboard of Love".

Republicans and Democrats have done an outstanding job of fucking up this country to the breaking point, maybe it's time libertarians start kicking the shit out of these buttholes.

Just a suggestion anyway, but I think it's a good one.

[angelatc]

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=204319&highlight=ACORN

This is a must read.

[Optatron]

why do we always blame the beater for being racist and never the beaten for being black?

[aravoth]

why do we always blame the beater for being racist and never the beaten for being black?

there is something wrong with you

[Mini-Me]

Look, they are using victim groups to create dialectics that are employed to exert forces on society. It's Newton's laws of Nature applied to society. These forces are applied by manipulating the public into acting in specific prescribed ways, in order to attain their goals.

They are utterly weak. They can only modify society by getting the public to do their bidding.

The only way to stop the changes on society is to stop being manipulated by them. To act as individuals as God had intended. As soon as we do this, they lose control, as they lose their grip on the public and their continued ability to manipulate us, and therefore society.

This is the ONLY WAY to stop them!

Try to understand this from an interview with Robert Hullot-Kentor....
http://brooklynrail.org/2007/03/art/robert-hullot

At the point, a small minority's mere non-participation in Hegelian dialectics is too little, too late. We need a way of reaching other people.


why do we always blame the beater for being racist and never the beaten for being black?
OOOH, OOOH, I KNOW! I KNOW! Errr, wait...this couldn't possibly have to do with the fact that the vast majority of civilized people detest racism, could it? To hazard another guess, I might suggest that the vast majority of people here detest the initiation of violent assault against anyone anyway, let alone for something as petty as the color skin they were born with. Didigetitright? :rolleyes:

[Optatron]

I Have a solution.

How about we let this thing heat up, hope and pray that it gets worse. Then when all of Congress is back in DC getting ready to vote on this, Everyone on this board, and other Libertarians throughout the country encircle DC, arrest Everyone in the GOP and the Democrats. Throw all of them in a fenced in tent city. Put a sign in front of it that says "Free Speech Zone".

While they are there, we'll illegally search thier personal property, and illegally seize whatever we want. Maybe we can even set up a theme park in this tent city. We could call it, the "Waterboard of Love".

Republicans and Democrats have done an outstanding job of fucking up this country to the breaking point, maybe it's time libertarians start kicking the shit out of these buttholes.

Just a suggestion anyway, but I think it's a good one.

I agree, it's a damn good one!

(and don't waste a minute trying to figure out how serious I am)

[Brooklyn Red Leg]

why do we always blame the beater for being racist and never the beaten for being black?

Dude, they have meds for this sort of thing. Seriously consider them.

[jkr]

whoa, tyme to check yo self...

[Chieftain1776]

Interview with St. Louis victim coming up on O'Reilly....

[Chieftain1776]

For those without cable: http://www.blinkotv.com/ then click Fox News

[Lord Xar]

Does the victim ever mention CFL or Ron Paul?

[Chieftain1776]

Does the victim ever mention CFL or Ron Paul?

It still hasn't come on yet. I don't know if he had any relationship to C4L but he was selling Don't Tread on Me flags so maybe. Also one member of C4L was attacked as I updated in the OP.

[literatim]

He wasn't even politically motivated. He was selling stuff because he was unemployed and thought it'd be a good place to make some money. The assaulters were poltiically motivated though.

[Mini-Me]

He wasn't even politically motivated. He was selling stuff because he was unemployed and thought it'd be a good place to make some money. The assaulters were poltiically motivated though.

That's even more messed up, considering the poor guy obviously wasn't provoking anyone...

[paulitics]

He wasn't even politically motivated. He was selling stuff because he was unemployed and thought it'd be a good place to make some money. The assaulters were poltiically motivated though.

My gut is telling me that he was politically motivated, but is too intimidated to admit it. Not his fault for being shaken up, nor should it matter to anyone what his political ideology is, but it would be in his best interest to just come clean now. It's not like it won't be forced out later.

[Optatron]

Dude, they have meds for this sort of thing. Seriously consider them.

who the f is THEY?

you're not cheering for the establishment to drug people just because they disagree with you, are you?

[Chieftain1776]

The interview by Laura (O'Reilly's stand in) sucked. She interrupted him while he was decribing what happened. The attacker basically called him a race traitor by saying "What kind of [N-word] sells this stuff". Unfortunately this is typical fare for any minority (but especially blacks) who don't tow the left-wing line. Two men then started beating him up while two more surrounded him while he was on the ground. He went to the emergency room and states he's still in pain.

[BlackTerrel]

wow.... this is just sad. People that will act with violence at the drop of a hat...

[Danke]

The republicans are falling right in line, getting violent as well, there are town halls besides this one where violence has occurred. If one side was trying to be nonviolent, it wouldn't be happening this much. The republicans and democrats are being way fucking hard headed on this because their masters in the media are telling them to. My basic point is not to play into the game, we have to hold both sides accountable.

Benis,

Why are you making this a Republican vs. Democrat fight?

The people that showed up in my district in opposition were not from the Republican party. I don't know the party affiliations of those speaking in support of the health care "reform" at that Town Hall meeting (except for the congresswoman, who is a Democrat).

I'm against it, and I'm not a Republican.

No violence either. Benis, where have you seen the opposition using violence? Is this isolated or part of a pervasive plan?

[devil21]

wow.... this is just sad. People that will act with violence at the drop of a hat...

They've learned it from their government. They have been taught that violence is the only way to accomplish something. It's untrue but it is pervasive. Unfortunately, then violence in return starts to become the only option and that's when the SHTF.

[Brooklyn Red Leg]

you're not cheering for the establishment to drug people just because they disagree with you, are you?

I said that because your retarded response to the attack was this:


why do we always blame the beater for being racist and never the beaten for being black?

In my not so humble opinion, in this case based on what we know, your position is that of a diseased mind. The poor bastard got attacked for not doing a goddamn thing. The fact that he did not hurl racial epithets should be evident that the man who was attacked was not a racist.

[Chieftain1776]

He wasn't even politically motivated. He was selling stuff because he was unemployed and thought it'd be a good place to make some money. The assaulters were poltiically motivated though.

I updated the post on the OP to show that the victim wasn't politically motivated and there's a better video available that shows, briefly, the C4L activist being attacked.

[InterestedParticipant]

At the point, a small minority's mere non-participation in Hegelian dialectics is too little, too late. We need a way of reaching other people.
Good luck running in circles and chasing your tail, because that's exactly what you'll be doing until you collapse from exhaustion.

You know, you'd be much better off taking a year off and actually reading the works of the planners, then you might actually have a chance of fending off their techniques.

But I assume you'll never do that, nor will you ever listen to anyone who has. They got you right where they want you, and you won't even invest the time to stop and see it.

[Mini-Me]

Good luck running in circles and chasing your tail, because that's exactly what you'll be doing until you collapse from exhaustion.

You know, you'd be much better off taking a year off and actually reading the works of the planners, then you might actually have a chance of fending off their techniques.

But I assume you'll never do that, nor will you ever listen to anyone who has. They got you right where they want you, and you won't even invest the time to stop and see it.

Au contraire, they have both of us right where they want us: In the extreme minority. Do you honestly think it makes a difference if you or I alone are able to "fend off their techniques?"

You seem to think you alone have it figured out, but since it's just you by yourself...how is that working out for you? Are you able to live completely free and conduct your business entirely out in the open, without giving the government a hefty cut or worrying about retribution if you don't? The very fact that you're posting here indicates that you're obviously still not 100% satisfied with the world you live in, and you're wanting to reach more people. Since that's exactly the kind of thing I suggested we need to do before you shot it down, wouldn't that mean you're "running in circles and chasing your tail" as well?

Hey, here's another Hegelian dialectic for you!
Problem (created by the establishment): The establishment has a stranglehold on politics, and we're the few who know about it.
Reaction (that they hope we will have): Despair and/or apathy.
Solution (that they present to us and guide us to): Do nothing, because ANYTHING we do strengthens the enemy, who has set up the greatest Xanatos Gambit of all time. Only complete passivity will disempower them, (we should ignore that pesky little problem that we'd need a shit ton more people on our side already for mere non-participation to have any effect...and if we DO speak with anyone, it's probably best to go ahead and speak in vague riddles and a tone of superiority). :rolleyes:

Are you SURE you've escaped their dialectics, InterestedParticipant?

[BenIsForRon]

Benis,

Why are you making this a Republican vs. Democrat fight?

The people that showed up in my district in opposition were not from the Republican party. I don't know the party affiliations of those speaking in support of the health care "reform" at that Town Hall meeting (except for the congresswoman, who is a Democrat).

I'm against it, and I'm not a Republican.

No violence either. Benis, where have you seen the opposition using violence? Is this isolated or part of a pervasive plan?

Ben (is for Ron)

I was mistaken about republicans initiating violence, I guess there's really only been two incidents so far and it was Union meat-heads both times.

Either way, things aren't going to get better, because the Dems are responding to the Repubs by sending the Union guys out.

EDIT: Sorry, didn't really answer your question. According to what I've seen, Fox News/Limbaugh (probably at the behest of powerful lobbies such as insurance) are telling their people to go to these things and raise hell. Now we've seen that the democrats are trying to get their base to go out there, and so far they've gotten a lot of union people out there. So this is becoming heavily partisan. I think the reason for this is because both sides think what happens with this bill will make a huge difference on who comes out on top in 2010. One repub referred to it as Obama's "waterloo".

Now think about it, you have a bunch of obnoxious Republicans against the bill, and a bunch of meat-head union workers for the bill. Do you think we're going to have anything constructive come out of this?

This is where C4L comes in. We have to show up as much as we can to add some sanity to the mix, pass out literature, explain the hidden interests (big pharma) and so on. If we have a big enough presence, people will remember us as the level headed folks with cool ideas.

I've done some "rallies" here on campus where our C4L groups just sets up tables with info about monetary policy, foreign policy, and so on. Because of our friendly attitudes and new ideas, we have a lot of people coming by willing to listen.

[Yieu]

why do we always blame the beater for being racist and never the beaten for being black?

Go be racist elsewhere! :mad:

I've seen enough posts by this user (who joined two months ago and has over 2,000 posts) that hint at racism (or are just plain racist) that it makes me think it's the beginnings of some sort of false flag style racially motivated crime and once it has been committed, they'll say "...and he was a senior member at the ron paul forums" in an effort to discredit us.

=\

[jdmyprez_deo_vindice]

I'm saying that most of you need to understand that these angry republicans are not helping anything. There have been town halls where the anti-public option republicans were much more civil and didn't yell. Guess what? They didn't get kicked out!

These overly angry people are only stifling the debate.

How is simply yelling when people refuse to listen to you a display of anger? These people should have been flooding town halls and state houses and congress years ago shouting at the top of their lungs and if they had I dare say we would not be in this situation today. The fact is that our government does not listen to us and they wish to silence dissent. These big government types have not yet begun to hear our anger let alone feel it and the time is soon where real violence will be not only possible but a grim reality and perhaps it is "radical" to say but THANK GOD!

The time to play nice is over. The time resist in a civil fashion is quickly running out. These people want to finish off what is left of our once glorious republic and you better believe that when the time comes to move that I will FIGHT for this country.

[InterestedParticipant]

au contraire, they have both of us right where they want us: In the extreme minority. Do you honestly think it makes a difference if you or i alone are able to "fend off their techniques?"
Yes!

The public does their work for them. We implement and carry out their plans. Refusing to do their dirty work is not doing nothing!

It's about retaining our humanity, that's how we win. They can only carry out their plans by ponerizing the public, which is what is occurring. Throw off their psychopathy and things will quickly return to normal and humanity will regain control. Again, this is not doing nothing, this is about making very important choices and following those decisions.

This is about hundreds of millions of individual choices. People must see they are making bad choices, this is what needs to be done. Fighting a small cadre of psychopaths who are experts at manipulating humanity will simply result in humanity moving away from itself, which is exactly what is happening.

[BenIsForRon]

How is simply yelling when people refuse to listen to you a display of anger? These people should have been flooding town halls and state houses and congress years ago shouting at the top of their lungs and if they had I dare say we would not be in this situation today. The fact is that our government does not listen to us and they wish to silence dissent. These big government types have not yet begun to hear our anger let alone feel it and the time is soon where real violence will be not only possible but a grim reality and perhaps it is "radical" to say but THANK GOD!

The time to play nice is over. The time resist in a civil fashion is quickly running out. These people want to finish off what is left of our once glorious republic and you better believe that when the time comes to move that I will FIGHT for this country.

You just made my point for me. YOU need to stay away from town halls.

By the way, if you think the people that are really behind the fleecing of our country are "socialists", then you're not paying attention.

[jdmyprez_deo_vindice]

You just made my point for me. YOU need to stay away from town halls.

By the way, if you think the people that are really behind the fleecing of our country are "socialists", then you're not paying attention.

No sir, I hate to disagree but I am EXACTLY the type that needs to be involved because if people were less willing to put up with this bullshit in the first place than we would probably not be in this position today.

As for the socialist statement, I think a lot of people are behind our fleecing and please don't ever accuse me of not paying attention.

[JeNNiF00F00]

You just made my point for me. YOU need to stay away from town halls.

By the way, if you think the people that are really behind the fleecing of our country are "socialists", then you're not paying attention.

The ones fleecing our country want US to be socialists so they will have less competition and continue to become more powerful with their elitist ways. Its control and power over a people who will be driven to learn how to become ever so increasingly dependent on them. I agree with JD. People need to learn that we are business and mean business before we lose EVERYTHING. We are very close to that point. I have very little to lose. I'm sure there is a lot of people like me as well. We are tired of it!

[BenIsForRon]

I guess I gotta go through this again... I'm not saying don't go, I'm saying be more organized, don't just yell the representative out of the room. Ask hard hitting, pointed questions, MAKE THEM ANSWER, NO SOUND BITES. Get as many fellow liberty lovers out there as you can. Pass out literature to BOTH republicans and democrats.

If you just yell them out of the room, all you did was not get to ask questions, and piss off a lot of other people. People that MIGHT have been persuaded by your ideas, but now they think you're crazy.

[jdmyprez_deo_vindice]

I guess I gotta go through this again... I'm not saying don't go, I'm saying be more organized, don't just yell the representative out of the room. Ask hard hitting, pointed questions, MAKE THEM ANSWER, NO SOUND BITES. Get as many fellow liberty lovers out there as you can. Pass out literature to BOTH republicans and democrats.

If you just yell them out of the room, all you did was not get to ask questions, and piss off a lot of other people. People that MIGHT have been persuaded by your ideas, but now they think you're crazy.

These people are willingly destroying our country... the time to be nice is over.. asking questions is fine but they have even ignored those and when that does not work they just walk out. So if they ignore you than you must do what you need to do to make it impossible for them to do so.

[BenIsForRon]

These people are willingly destroying our country... the time to be nice is over.. asking questions is fine but they have even ignored those and when that does not work they just walk out. So if they ignore you than you must do what you need to do to make it impossible for them to do so.

What is happening out the town halls is only further dividing the country. The tone needs to be changed, and we can be part of that.

Have you ever heard the phrase "Divide and conquer"? Well, that's what they're doing. I guess you don't care though, you just wanna RAISE HELL!!!

[InterestedParticipant]

I guess I gotta go through this again... I'm not saying don't go, I'm saying be more organized, don't just yell the representative out of the room. Ask hard hitting, pointed questions, MAKE THEM ANSWER, NO SOUND BITES. Get as many fellow liberty lovers out there as you can. Pass out literature to BOTH republicans and democrats.

If you just yell them out of the room, all you did was not get to ask questions, and piss off a lot of other people. People that MIGHT have been persuaded by your ideas, but now they think you're crazy.
I agree with this approach. It's called being an Adult!

Just realize that you are walking into a trap, and hence, should be aware of the techniques that the trappers will use to snare you. Don't go until you've summarily understand the Delphi Technique that change agents use to manipulate groups.

[BenIsForRon]

I agree with this approach. It's called being an Adult!

Just realize that you are walking into a trap, and hence, should be aware of the techniques that the trappers will use to snare you. Don't go until you've summarily understand the Delphi Technique that change agents use to manipulate groups.

Dude, weren't you gone for a while? Can you do that again, except permanently this time?

[Sandra]

Someone posted a whole list of those techniques at one time. I think it was here.

[jdmyprez_deo_vindice]

Yes I have heard that term. have you ever heard of the word "enslaved"? These people rely on us to be nice and polite and usually that is fine and would agree with you 100% but these people have proven that they do not care what we think and they will just do what they want because they believe that we will do nothing about it.

If you ask someone the same question 100 times and they ignore you or lie to you 100 times do you just keep asking the same question in the same tone of voice?

So yes maybe I do want to raise hell and I fail to see what is wrong with that. Somebody sure as hell needs to and it is obvious it will not be you.


What is happening out the town halls is only further dividing the country. The tone needs to be changed, and we can be part of that.

Have you ever heard the phrase "Divide and conquer"? Well, that's what they're doing. I guess you don't care though, you just wanna RAISE HELL!!!

[BenIsForRon]

Thousands of people politely called their congressman and sent them letters about 1207, now it has 282 cosponsors. Not all reps are evil incarnate.

[Sandra]

Thousands of people politely called their congressman and sent them letters about 1207, now it has 282 cosponsors. Not all reps are evil incarnate.

Precisely! This was done SOLELY from constituents pressuring their Congressmen.

[jdmyprez_deo_vindice]

but it still has not gone through. There were also record numbers of calls,letters,e-mails and confrontations about the corporate bailouts and they swore up and down that they were listening and that they cared and then they turned around and voted to bail out their wall street buddies anyway... I don't know how anyone in this movement (and anyone period really) could have faith that our government "officials" are going to do the right thing. I agree with you in that the first line should be to respectfully address them about an issue but more times than not they make it painfully obvious that they do not give a crap what we think or how we feel. So if it takes showing up at a meeting and getting nasty to get results than you do it.




Thousands of people politely called their congressman and sent them letters about 1207, now it has 282 cosponsors. Not all reps are evil incarnate.

[BenIsForRon]

So if it takes showing up at a meeting and getting nasty to get results than you do it.

This is where we disagree. I guess you think yelling down your rep will scare them into withdrawing their support? I doubt it.

It's more about changing other people's minds. If people see Campaign for Liberty folks making an ass of themselves, then they will be less likely to listen to us on other things. We need to build credibility, not get lumped into the Limbaugh crowd.