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View Full Version : Penn & Teller on Showtime Tonight on taxes




sunghoko
08-06-2009, 07:50 PM
RP makes an appearance on it tonight as well

edit : uh, you can move this to Economics & Sound Money forum mods

RSLudlum
08-06-2009, 07:57 PM
Thanks for the heads up. :)

Optatron
08-06-2009, 08:32 PM
they're against conspiracy theories!!

ClayTrainor
08-06-2009, 08:33 PM
What time does it normally play at?

kombayn
08-06-2009, 09:34 PM
they're against conspiracy theories!!

Which they should be. Most conspiracy theorists are bat-shit crazy who can't be rationalized with or just trying to make money off of you with the doom and gloom books.

Ian A.
08-06-2009, 09:48 PM
I'm very weary of this. P & T have been establishment stooges in other specials (such as JFK) I can't help but think he will ridicule the tax honesty movement. :(

But he once said on Howard Stern that he liked Ron Paul so who knows. :confused:

AutoDas
08-06-2009, 09:51 PM
damnit I didn't know I was an establishment stooge just because I don't buy into the whole JFK and 9/11 theories.

TinCanToNA
08-06-2009, 09:54 PM
They are pretty good at calling spades spades, such as calling bullshit on conspiracy theorists, but just like everyone else, they are not perfectly accurate. They are, however, open to correcting the record on things they call BS on, such as health consequences for second-hand smoking.

Penn is a libertarian, no doubt about that. I don't have Showtime, but I would love to watch their show if I could.

jsu718
08-06-2009, 10:00 PM
It's already over, I have already downloaded and am watching it.

dannno
08-06-2009, 10:01 PM
damnit I didn't know I was an establishment stooge just because I don't buy into the whole JFK and 9/11 theories.

Yes you did.

AutoDas
08-06-2009, 10:25 PM
nah, nope, not really

jsu718
08-06-2009, 10:29 PM
I thought they did a pretty good job of simplifying it.
"I am not taking pie from you, I am giving pie to me"
They could have gone more into just exactly how much is being spent by the government for each person that is paying it... Like based on the average salary Bill Gates pays for several million people's taxes.

devil21
08-07-2009, 01:06 AM
Decent show I guess. They talked about Americans waking up and fighting for Liberty yet COMPLETELY left out the one tax issue that would actually get people to do it! There was not a single mention that the biggest payroll tax, the Federal Income Tax, goes directly into the pockets of the Fed and their bank shareholders! How many Americans really know that the 20-30% Federal Income Tax goes right into the private bank accounts of bankers? Not many. And of course that's still an unmentionable subject, even for P&T. They may be more libertarian than most but they're still establishment and won't risk anything for real progress.

RevolutionSD
08-07-2009, 04:54 AM
damnit I didn't know I was an establishment stooge just because I don't buy into the whole JFK and 9/11 theories.

Which theories don't you buy into?

The government has one theory and there are many others in each case.

To say "most conspiracy theories are batshit crazy" is just shutting off your brain to evidence and reason.

The government's theory IS a conspiracy theory, and based on a long history of government lying, it's not likely the correct one.

Did the towers get blown up with explosives? Not likely either in my opinion, but the dozens of important questions that went unanswered in the 9/11 commission report should tell any thinking person that there was definitely a cover up...then you have to ask, what are they hiding?

AutoDas
08-07-2009, 05:05 AM
Which theories don't you buy into?

The government has one theory and there are many others in each case.

To say "most conspiracy theories are batshit crazy" is just shutting off your brain to evidence and reason.

The government's theory IS a conspiracy theory, and based on a long history of government lying, it's not likely the correct one.

Did the towers get blown up with explosives? Not likely either in my opinion, but the dozens of important questions that went unanswered in the 9/11 commission report should tell any thinking person that there was definitely a cover up...then you have to ask, what are they hiding?

You've got your no-planers, reptilians, controlled demolitions theories. Pick whatever you like. I don't care, but conspiracists make their theories sound like an orthodox religion.

To say I said, "most conspiracy theories are batshit crazy" is bullshit and you're grasping straws.

Hiki
08-07-2009, 06:05 AM
Decent show I guess. They talked about Americans waking up and fighting for Liberty yet COMPLETELY left out the one tax issue that would actually get people to do it! There was not a single mention that the biggest payroll tax, the Federal Income Tax, goes directly into the pockets of the Fed and their bank shareholders! How many Americans really know that the 20-30% Federal Income Tax goes right into the private bank accounts of bankers? Not many. And of course that's still an unmentionable subject, even for P&T. They may be more libertarian than most but they're still establishment and won't risk anything for real progress.

Well it's not a long show (20-30mins?) so they cant really go over every single thing about taxes.

RevolutionSD
08-07-2009, 09:20 AM
You've got your no-planers, reptilians, controlled demolitions theories. Pick whatever you like. I don't care, but conspiracists make their theories sound like an orthodox religion.

To say I said, "most conspiracy theories are batshit crazy" is bullshit and you're grasping straws.

Sorry, that was in response to kombayn's post, my bad.

ClayTrainor
08-07-2009, 09:26 AM
That was one of the best episodes of Bullshit, yet!

I loved the patriotic finish, with Sam Adams :D

devil21
08-07-2009, 03:56 PM
Well it's not a long show (20-30mins?) so they cant really go over every single thing about taxes.

30 minutes is enough time to show Pelosi hauling ass from questions twice but not enough time to throw up a chart or ask Ron Paul to explain where the Federal Income Tax goes? I call bs on that one.

Who owns Showtime? CBS. Who owns CBS? Viacom. Who owns Viacom? Wall St. Who owns Wall St? The Fed! Follow the money. P&T are more vocal about issues than many but they still know who signs their paychecks.

jmlfod87
08-07-2009, 04:03 PM
30 minutes is enough time to show Pelosi hauling ass from questions twice but not enough time to throw up a chart or ask Ron Paul to explain where the Federal Income Tax goes? I call bs on that one.

Who owns Showtime? CBS. Who owns CBS? Viacom. Who owns Viacom? Wall St. Who owns Wall St? The Fed! Follow the money. P&T are more vocal about issues than many but they still know who signs their paychecks.

Penn & Teller are fellows of the Cato Institute. Penn himself has declared himself an anarcho-capitalist. Your conspiracy theory is nonsense.

gls
08-07-2009, 04:06 PM
Penn & Teller are fellows of the Cato Institute. Penn himself has declared himself an anarcho-capitalist. Your conspiracy theory is nonsense.

He's implies that they're pro-FED and you try to counter that by saying they're fellows at the pro-FED CATO institute? Way to make his case for him.

jmlfod87
08-07-2009, 04:15 PM
While I am definitely not one of Cato's cheerleaders, not everyone at Cato is pro-Fed, Penn being one of them.

NYgs23
08-07-2009, 04:32 PM
Some of you need to chill out. You sound like statist parodies of libertarians. He's a self-described anarcho-capitalist. Some people love to burn bridges wherever they can.

devil21
08-07-2009, 05:14 PM
Penn & Teller are fellows of the Cato Institute. Penn himself has declared himself an anarcho-capitalist. Your conspiracy theory is nonsense.

LOL but he draws his paycheck from a multinational corporation that puts him on TV in the first place. Penn's personal feelings will always be secondary to his career. Just like any other tv personality. Certain things are off limits. Surely Penn knows where the Federal Income Tax goes right? The complete omission of it from the show tells me just how forthright he wants to be in his argument against taxes.

ClayTrainor
08-07-2009, 05:21 PM
LOL but he draws his paycheck from a multinational corporation that puts him on TV in the first place. Penn's personal feelings will always be secondary to his career. Just like any other tv personality. Certain things are off limits. Surely Penn knows where the Federal Income Tax goes right? The complete omission of it from the show tells me just how forthright he wants to be in his argument against taxes.

Oh no! They didn't cover absolutely every corrupt and disgusting detail about the tax system in a 30 minute TV show!!!

They must be paid shills...

http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/upload/2009/04/weekend_diversion_do_tinfoil_h/tinfoil-hat.jpg

Optatron
08-07-2009, 05:25 PM
Which they should be. Most conspiracy theorists are bat-shit crazy who can't be rationalized with or just trying to make money off of you with the doom and gloom books.

Keyword, MOST.

What are exceptions??

Optatron
08-07-2009, 05:34 PM
Decent show I guess. They talked about Americans waking up and fighting for Liberty yet COMPLETELY left out the one tax issue that would actually get people to do it! There was not a single mention that the biggest payroll tax, the Federal Income Tax, goes directly into the pockets of the Fed and their bank shareholders! How many Americans really know that the 20-30% Federal Income Tax goes right into the private bank accounts of bankers? Not many. And of course that's still an unmentionable subject, even for P&T. They may be more libertarian than most but they're still establishment and won't risk anything for real progress.

sometimes they generalize

1. They say alcoholics anonymous is bullshit because it's legislation of religion
(because some people would rather be in prison than to have a foreign religion taught to them)

2. They say anger management is bullshit because it's forcing you to do something against your will at taxpayer's expense (unlike prison)

3. They say college is bullshit because it's used for liberal propaganda
(which is why America doesn't produce scientists, doctors or astronauts, only libertarian countries like Costa Rica and New Hampshire, free countries like Somalia and Taiwan do)

4. They say disabilities accommodation is bad because it's never going to satisfy enough people
(that episode at least included a good point, that we've disrespected private property by mandating all people to accommodate cripples)

5. They say Manners, Hair are bullshit because some manage to go overboard about it

6. They say illegal immigration (as a concern) is bullshit because people can break the fence if we build one
(so if somebody can break into your house, don't have walls or doors.)

KramerDSP
08-07-2009, 05:38 PM
For those that watched the show, how long was Ron'a appearance ? Also, did they respond favorably to him? Thanks.

ClayTrainor
08-07-2009, 05:51 PM
For those that watched the show, how long was Ron'a appearance ? Also, did they respond favorably to him? Thanks.

Yes it was favorable, and he was in it for 2 segments if i recall correctly. He Probably had about 45 seconds of speaking time, in total.

They made fun of him at first by calling him "Gandalf from the Lord of the Rings" :D

KramerDSP
08-07-2009, 05:53 PM
LOL. Thanks for the heads up. I'll DVR it.

devil21
08-07-2009, 06:05 PM
Oh no! They didn't cover absolutely every corrupt and disgusting detail about the tax system in a 30 minute TV show!!!

They must be paid shills...

http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/upload/2009/04/weekend_diversion_do_tinfoil_h/tinfoil-hat.jpg

Only the single most important aspect of taxation in the United States was omitted. Yeah I guess that's just a conspiracy. Talking to an irrelevent Dick Armey for 5 minutes is much more productive use of a 30 minute show on why taxes are bullshit :rolleyes:

I gotta say, part of my concern comes from what Ive noticed about this season's Bullshit episodes. P&T have been very careful to support the status quo by only trotting out AEI, Cato, etc "suits" while belittling anything coming from the little guy. In prior seasons it was the other way around. They would make the "suits" look like the bozos while hearing out the common man. There's been a distinct change in tone in this season of episodes. This one just proves it to me. They rail on about how taxes suck but don't say anything specific about where taxes go. That episode could have been SO much better.