Isolationist

[lucky]

I have pretty good luck with getting positive feedback on Ron Paul. The main anti-Ron Paul thing I have been having a hard time with is he is being perceived as an Isolationist.

I know and have discussed the difference between an Isolationist and a non intervening. Have tried all the arguments I know about the constitution not allowing us to have entangling alliances that lead to war that does not serve the National interests.

Several times in recent days I have heard Hannity name brought up on how he said or thinks that isolationism is so doom and gloom and all that. I know Hannity has millions of rabid fans and all and his man is Guiliani or McCain I think and he may just be pushing their agenda or interjecting his views as he did right a book about this stuff and it would make him an hypocrite to change.

Was wondering if any others are having this problem? If so how has it gone and was there the tirade I seem to get?

This seems to be a big stumbling block so far and am worried that Veterans may disdain him for this also. ( I don't) Anyway I have had a lot of positive feedback from most so far and if Ron Paul can keep it up then it looks like a hell of a fight but with positive results.

[IrrigatedPancake]

I have not tried this with anyone with the views that you described, but what works best in my own mind is to think of each country as an individual person in a room. If America, the biggest and strongest, goes around grabbing things that he wants and beating up those who fight back, everyone else in the room is not going to make things easy for him, especially when he gets tired and asks for some energy. However, if he uses his great strength to create the things he needs to survive, prosper, and defend himself, while freely talking to who ever approaches him, then tensions about how America feels about everything you do in the world can ease, and the American people can focus on what ever they want.

[ARealConservative]

it's not isolationism, it is a humble foreign policy.

We are a large population with a wide variety of beliefs. History has shown we don't have the stomach fdor long drawn out wars unless our own security is directly at stake. So we need to be humble in what government can do - starting preemptive wars because doing so could make us safer 10-20 years down the road is illogical for the rules our government operates under. We have checks and balances to prevent an abuse of government - calling some general "War Czar" doesn't change anything. Foreign and Domestic policy will shift in the wind - and our government actions need to remember that!

It's not isolationism, it is a conservative view of what government can accomplish.

[wwycher]

Non Intervention not Isolationalist. Live and let live not leave me alone, I want nothing to do with you. MSM has been spinning again.

[beermotor]

it's not isolationism, it is a humble foreign policy.

We are a large population with a wide variety of beliefs. History has shown we don't have the stomach fdor long drawn out wars unless our own security is directly at stake. So we need to be humble in what government can do - starting preemptive wars because doing so could make us safer 10-20 years down the road is illogical for the rules our government operates under. We have checks and balances to prevent an abuse of government - calling some general "War Czar" doesn't change anything. Foreign and Domestic policy will shift in the wind - and our government actions need to remember that!

It's not isolationism, it is a conservative view of what government can accomplish.


RP needs to make the point that the genocide in Darfur, and elsewhere in Africa, would be a hell of a lot better use of peacekeeping troops than in regional POLITICAL wars. And doing that one better, would be to support African Union troops and nations in handling / solving their own problems. America CANNOT effectively police the world - that is the point he is making. People understand that on a gut level. RP needs to hit them with the second punch - what a noninterventionist would advocate for DOING is in the realm of support and assistance.

[Bradley in DC]

Too many people jump to the conclusion that if you didn't support the war in Iraq you don't want to respond to the attack on 9/11. Pointing out to them that at the time this was being debated that Dr. Paul had a different, better approach using the Consitutional Letters of Marque and Reprisal to go after bin Laden and friends instead of bombing civilian populations should help. (hmmm, could I make that sentence any longer...):rolleyes:

[ARealConservative]

Too many people jump to the conclusion that if you didn't support the war in Iraq you don't want to respond to the attack on 9/11. Pointing out to them that at the time this was being debated that Dr. Paul had a different, better approach using the Consitutional Letters of Marque and Reprisal to go after bin Laden and friends instead of bombing civilian populations should help. (hmmm, could I make that sentence any longer...):rolleyes:

Also he voted approval of the war in Afghanistan.

[SeanEdwards]

I like the example of Switzerland. They are respected around the world. Their diplomats go everywhere. The international commitee of the red cross is one of the few organizations that is generally allowed to move between warring parties. They have a non-interventionist foreign policy, but they are actively involved in doing good and helping to end conflicts around the world.

They are also not a target of islamic terrorists, and in many ways are freer than Americans.

[lucky]

I know all this and try to explain this to some. It is a hard thing to overcome people that are brainwashed. Many are surprised when I tell them we have troops in 130 countries. When I got Ron Paul' vote about the Iraqi war it was the first time I ever questioned him. I sent a message to him and received a reply that essentially said what he is saying now. It took a lot of time but brainwashing takes time to heal from but understand and totally agree on his stance for Iraq and war in general.

The only litmus test for me now is if it is Constitutional and to say it is we would have to discuss first why it is in our National interest.

[angrydragon]

How is free-trade with other countries isolationistic? Invading and messing with the foreign politics or the internal affairs of other countries gains us more hatred against our government and in turn makes us more isolationistic and garners less friends of other countries.

If the people of other countries are being oppressed by their government, it is up to those people to rise up against that government.

[lucky]

How is free-trade with other countries isolationistic? Invading and messing with the foreign politics or the internal affairs of other countries gains us more hatred against our government and in turn makes us more isolationistic and garners less friends of other countries.

If the people of other countries are being oppressed by their government, it is up to those people to rise up against that government.


Totally agree Angrydragon. I have seen less of the agry Isolationist talk lately for some reason. Maybe it is getting stale and seeing how 70% of the people are against the war maybe that is why.

Did make some headway the other day by using the RP idea that using a gun and bombing innocents to impose Democracy instills hatred. Even used the we need to be a model and an example.

We will continue to see this talk and maybe after further deabtes on it it will help.

[angrydragon]

Words any country and it's people can live by.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

The Declaration of Independence

[lucky]

And that is why we are here now and fighting. Just remember the words that we have just begun to fight and lets go get our Government back that our founders have given us.

[mikelovesgod]

Why doesn't the US attack the Congo where 4 million have died? Or the Sudan or Dakur? Why didn't it attack Pol Pot, Mao, etc. when these men were brutal savages?

Why this current conscience for the worst places in the world to live?

[angrydragon]

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:tJMf-3v7UGQJ:www.chss.montclair.edu/english/furr/pol/pilgerpolpotnus.pdf+pol+pot+cia&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=14&gl=us&client=firefox-a

[Shmuel Spade]

After the Pearl Harbor attack America's traditional Switzerland-like stance to foreign engagements was derided and mocked unmercifully by the greatest propaganda masters in American history. The word "isolationism" used to be a different thing, and used to have a neutral if not positive connotation in the American psyche. Now, we can't even use the word isolationism without incurring the Pavlovian knee-jerk response that was ingrained in folks by their government schooling. Now we must use the word non-interventionism to convey what isolationism used to. The term may be more accurate, but it's rather unwieldy.

Remember isolationism (as used today) is about what you want to do to yourself, non-interventionism is about what you want to do with other people.

[jjschless]

Our own specsaregood has a good blog up that details a strong counter-argument.

Check it out here: http://specsaregood.townhall.com/g/0831b8ed-fcbc-4873-9375-24c6239d097a

[expatriot]

Isolationist is a tag put up by thse who wish to justify their wars.

A better way to address this may be to simply respond to the isolationist
argument with the question "What do you really mean?"
because most who use the term will not have thought it through.

Getting people to think and recognize the fault-lines in the rhetoric
they have been spoon-fed is what the rEVOLution does best.

[hard@work]

There's nothing isolationist about withdrawing our troops and sending commerce and peace negotiators all over the word instead of frikkin bombs. Push the diplomatic missions, it's very anti-isolationist but pro-peace and pro-American.

[njandrewg]

Neocons are the real isolationists, they isolate us from the world with their dumb foreign policy

[fj45lvr]

Words any country and it's people can live by.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

The Declaration of Independence

How come you didn't quote the more recent edition?????

"to secure these rights, puppet governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the U.N. --that whenever any form of government becomes destructive of American/Israeli interests, it is the Right of the U.S. military to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such tyranny (subtle or otherwise) as to them shall seem most likely to effect military control."

[austin356]

Besides Ron Paul's pro-trade; Non-interventionist stance, I think I like Isolationist better than anyone else in the political spectrum.

I used to be a big free trade at all coster and still am an Austrian, but I could care less right now; There are much bigger problems in American and the world right now.