Are we being co-opted???

[BillyDkid]

Now this is just my opinion. It seems to me fairly obvious that the liberty movement inspired by Ron Paul's run for the Presidency is being co-opted to a significant extent by some of the very people who have in the past openly detested Ron Paul, the Ron Paul movement and the everything Ron Paul represents and we are letting it happen. Just hating Democrats and Obama does not make you a lover of liberty. Just hating taxes does not make you a lover of liberty.

It seems to me that some of the more evil and corrupt factions on the right have begun to latch onto us and we are consequently being tarred with the same brush. IMHO this is going to ruin us and ruin the movement - which may well be the intention of some. Some of the most awful people on the right (and yes, there are awful people on the left too) are using the movement as a way to further their own agendas which often have nothing to do with liberty at all as most of us understand it. The Tea Parties would be an example - Fox News and their associates have latched onto these things and tried to claim them for their own.

This is the same network - with Hannity and O'Reilly and others - who did everything they could to discredit and embarrass us and Ron Paul. Sure, they hate Obama, but no matter what they say and how they act now, they hate Ron Paul worse. I think there are some who view the movement as something to be exploited to further their own agendas. I also think there are some who have latched onto us with the intention of discrediting us in the eyes of the rest of America. I have said from the beginning that there are those who dispise us and what we stand for so much that they will stop at nothing to ruin us - and it was the neo-cons and those on the authoritarian right who went after us tooth and nail during the campaign. I see this happening now. It was leaders of the GOP who treated Ron Paul and his supporters with contempt and hatred. Am I wrong???

I see some of us getting caught up in this partisan thing, forgetting that the enemy of your enemy is not necessarily your friend.

[gls]

Sure they're trying, but as long as 'we' are fielding and funding principled and credible candidates for high office (such as Schiff and Rand), we're making progress IMO.

[jmdrake]

In a word....yes. Here's a photo of something I saw at the last "tea party" I attended.

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/5613/photoyen.jpg

Notice the GIANT Israeli flag and the TINY U.S. flag. Oh and this was taken two days before July 4th. :( The opening prayer for this event ended with "And Lord help us to support Israel through whom you will fulfill prophecy and we will receive our salvation."

Now I've got nothing against Israel. If anyone wants to take their own private funds and send them to Israel or Haiti or Cuba or wherever that's their right. But since when did supporting Israel become some quasi religious - political duty? Should we tell Israel they should stop expanding settlements? No. I'm not for telling any country what to do. But I'm not for sending Israel or any other country foreign aid either. Direct aid from private individuals to other private individuals in need in other countries yes. Foreign aid from one corrupt political elite to another NO!

At the same tea party there was a "taped message" from Newt Gingrich. Remember Newt cutting a "fight global warming" commercial with Nancy Pelosi? His message was played just days after the treasonous "cap and trade" bill passed the house.

So what to do about this? Well the Austin Tea Party that booed John Cornyn showed a good solution. While we need allies and we want our movement to grow we don't need to "go along to get along" with everybody under the sun. And it's time to stop distancing ourselves from the "fringe" movements in our ranks just so that we can be "respectable". I'd rather work with someone who's politics I agree with but who might have some "conspiracy theory" I dismiss than someone who's a "conventional" neocon. We need to have signs at our events like this one.

http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/infowars-shop_2063_5290000

[Sandra]

Yes, it's Freedom Works. They are now the only "grassroots" org mentioned on the news anymore. It's an asrtoturf organization running the show now.

[Athan]

Yeah, its kind of obvious. We should stick to 1207 & 604 and let the media deal with them. We've got a republic and Constitution to save. Let them worry about Israel and the republican party.

[Deborah K]

We need to start a new organization like: saveourconstitution.org and call ourselves constitutionalists - or SOMETHING!!! I'm tired of the "teabagger" comments, etc. and being associated with people who think we've annexed Israel!:rolleyes:

We need to distinguish ourselves.

[acptulsa]

The opening prayer for this event ended with "And Lord help us to support Israel through whom you will fulfill prophecy and we will receive our salvation."

Now I've got nothing against Israel. If anyone wants to take their own private funds and send them to Israel or Haiti or Cuba or wherever that's their right. But since when did supporting Israel become some quasi religious - political duty?

Since forever. How do you think they got around the more inconvenient aspects of Christianity--like a founding philosophy of peace and tolerance--when getting the less bright fundamentalists on board with war? Now you know.

And, believe me, it has worked. I see it all around me down this way...

[Elwar]

-WE- need to remember that "we" are a bunch of individuals that cannot be easily grouped into some collective mindset.

When Ron Paul was running we were made up of a group of individuals with seperate thoughts and beliefs who happened to have the same goal: To get Ron Paul elected for our own individual reasons.

That goal is gone and replaced with several different goals which guides different individuals to help other same minded individuals.

Nobody can co-opt an individual without the consent of that individual. An individual or a "we" can co-opt a "we" quite easily.

[t0rnado]

If we talk more about legalizing drugs, ending all foreign occupations, and staying out of middle eastern Asia, they'll leave.

[JeNNiF00F00]

We need to start a new organization like: saveourconstitution.org and call ourselves constitutionalists - or SOMETHING!!! I'm tired of the "teabagger" comments, etc. and being associated with people who think we've annexed Israel!:rolleyes:

We need to distinguish ourselves.

I agree! I was excited about the tea party but when I got there, all it was was a massive neocon agenda taking place. There was a little ron paul tent with information about the fed but most were there for reasons of anti abortion, support of israel and just general hate for Obama. I do not want to be associated with this at all. Its actually quite embarrassing imo.

[JeNNiF00F00]

-WE- need to remember that "we" are a bunch of individuals that cannot be easily grouped into some collective mindset.

When Ron Paul was running we were made up of a group of individuals with seperate thoughts and beliefs who happened to have the same goal: To get Ron Paul elected for our own individual reasons.

That goal is gone and replaced with several different goals which guides different individuals to help other same minded individuals.

Nobody can co-opt an individual without the consent of that individual. An individual or a "we" can co-opt a "we" quite easily.

Yes, we still are individuals, however these neocons are latching onto our coat tails and ideas and then destroying the "brand" if you will of our movement. This scares anyone with dreams of "individuality" away.

[speciallyblend]

I agree! I was excited about the tea party but when I got there, all it was was a massive neocon agenda taking place. There was a little ron paul tent with information about the fed but most were there for reasons of anti abortion, support of israel and just general hate for Obama. I do not want to be associated with this at all. Its actually quite embarrassing imo.

i feel the same way! i am not to worried about the gop co-opting our message, unless they are truly following our message! the gop will continue to lose on the neo-con agenda. plus we do not follow bs gop candidates unless they truly walk the walk and talk the talk! the gop will rise or fall on its own merits!!

[speciallyblend]

Yes, we still are individuals, however these neocons are latching onto our coat tails and ideas and then destroying the "brand" if you will of our movement. This scares anyone with dreams of "individuality" away.

yep, i have said this from day one. the brandname of the gop/republican is what is getting damaged, maybe we can save it ? i am not sure! but most voters are treating the republican party like the scarlet letter R!

my question is once the corrupt gop leadership is overcome. will the gop be worth saving after the neo-cons have destroyed the brandname??

[acptulsa]

Are they trying to use us to polish the tarnish off of their brand, or are they trying to stick us with the R which they themselves have made into a scarlet letter? I don't suppose it much matters to them which way it goes down; they'll still have all those Democrats to do their dirty work for them...

[LibertyEagle]

Yes, we still are individuals, however these neocons are latching onto our coat tails and ideas and then destroying the "brand" if you will of our movement. This scares anyone with dreams of "individuality" away.

Apply flea party and shake them off. Then, keep trying and get more people to do the same. The truth will win out, if we all do not give up.

[dr. hfn]

i really hope the gop dies for good in 2012. if you go to a tea party next time, keep promoting hr 1207/s604...but also pick something else to promote that you know neocons will hate. I'm taking a sign next time that says "End the Spending! End the War!"

[angelatc]

Apply flea party and shake them off. Then, keep trying and get more people to do the same. The truth will win out, if we all do not give up.

The Campaign For Liberty put on the Tea Party here.

Blame yourselves - if you're not organizing the resistance, somebody else will. Leaders lead, followers follow, and whiners whine.

But it's useless to try to use RPF to organize these days. People are more interested in promoting isolationism than they are actually getting anything done.

[angelatc]

i really hope the gop dies for good in 2012. if you go to a tea party next time, keep promoting hr 1207/s604...but also pick something else to promote that you know neocons will hate. I'm taking a sign next time that says "End the Spending! End the War!"

What an odd way to gain support for your cause. How does that work, exactly? You walk in, purposely offensive, hoping to gain.....what?

[free.alive]

i really hope the gop dies for good in 2012.

Brilliant! That way we can guarantee that there's no organized political operation to match the virulently socialists Democrats ascendance to POWER! NOTHING WILL STOP THEM THEN!!!! They will hold power fooreeeveeeeeer!! Bwaaahaaahaaahaaahaaaaaaa!!!! :rolleyes:




...if you go to a tea party next time, keep promoting hr 1207/s604...but also pick something else to promote that you know neocons will hate. I'm taking a sign next time that says "End the Spending! End the War!"

Now I'm with you on that, brother!

[ForLiberty-RonPaul]

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=204012