MSNBC: President Clinton Secures Release of Jailed American Journalists in N. Korea [Archive]

Cowlesy

08-04-2009, 01:37 PM

Well, at least we get 2 Clintons for the price of one.
Props to Bill if this was legit, although I question why he should be doing the job of Hillary when he is no longer a public servant.

Clinton's people said it was a private mission, not sanctioned by the U.S. government. I'm sure there was cooperation, but he wasn't acting in a official role.

Kim Jong-il is a child, and I am sure loved the attention of getting to meet former President Clinton. Bubba is such a smooth talker, he probably turned KJI into a bumbling school girl.

Ambassador Bolton has his knickers in a knot about the whole operation. I think he should shut the f up. Talking to clowns like North Korea isn't going to harm us.

The journalists took a chance, and got busted. I am sure Lisa Ling (the one journalist's sister) made an appeal to Bubba to help---and maybe Bubba has a thing for asia ladies?

Feenix566

08-04-2009, 02:08 PM

Way to go Bill! The only President who ever balanced the budget in our times is still kickin' ass!

TonySutton

08-04-2009, 02:25 PM

Anyone who doesn't think this was a done deal before Clinton ever got on the plane to head over is a fool. The visit was all a dog and pony show.

Feenix566

08-04-2009, 02:27 PM

Anyone who doesn't think this was a done deal before Clinton ever got on the plane to head over is a fool. The visit was all a dog and pony show.

So what? Who cares? A dictator kidnapped two journalists who were trying to expose his dictatorship for what it is. Our guys got them back. This is a good thing. Be happy about it.

ravedown

08-04-2009, 02:51 PM

i dont have to be happy about watching our president go kiss the ring and drop off ransom $$ for a couple so called journalists working for al gore's news channel trying to expose civil right violations? how fresh....n. china is an oppressive regime that starves their population and extorts money and aide from the U.S. any chance they get? no shit.
i hope if i get thrown in a mexican jail for trying to smuggle cuban cigars into the country-clinton will come bail me out.

devil21

08-04-2009, 03:26 PM

So what? Who cares? A dictator kidnapped two journalists who were trying to expose his dictatorship for what it is. Our guys got them back. This is a good thing. Be happy about it.

If you believe the official story. :rolleyes:

Anybody else noticed a lot of Americans seem to be "wandering" across borders into areas we aren't very friendly with lately and getting caught? Just last nite front page of Yahoo was 3 different ongoing cases of it. North Korea, Iran (second time, if you include the reporter that was recently released after being convicted of spying) and Myanmar. I don't think these are cases of innocent Americans just mistakenly wandering around. It reeks of CIA propaganda and cover stories for failed spy entry. Notice that they are all around mid 20's age? The CIA recruits heavily on college campuses.

And now North Korea releases the two "reporters" only after Bill Clinton himself, a former CIA man, shows up. Believe the official story if you want but this reeks of CIA meddling.

BlackTerrel

08-04-2009, 03:33 PM

Good for Bill.

I don't think these are cases of innocent Americans just mistakenly wandering around. It reeks of CIA propaganda and cover stories for failed spy entry. Notice that they are all around mid 20's age? The CIA recruits heavily on college campuses.

Coincidentally also around the same age that people go hiking. I'm not an expert but my guess is if you wanted to spy on Iran you wouldn't hike across the Iran/Iraq border.

Cowlesy

08-04-2009, 03:49 PM

I had a bet with someone how many posts it would take for this thread to get contorted into an "negative, inside-job/cia/clandestine, etc" thread ---- I almost won! :)

devil21

08-04-2009, 04:00 PM

Good for Bill.

Coincidentally also around the same age that people go hiking. I'm not an expert but my guess is if you wanted to spy on Iran you wouldn't hike across the Iran/Iraq border.

One of the articles referred to one of the recent Iranian captured hikers as a "Professional Traveler". I guess that's what they are calling CIA operatives these days. A pro that just can't seem to get the hang of that dang GPS once they get near international borders. Yeah right. What do you suppose is a better entry point into Iran? I doubt the CIA flies into Tehran on the red eye.

I had a bet with someone how many posts it would take for this thread to get contorted into an "negative, inside-job/cia/clandestine, etc" thread ---- I almost won!

Surely you're not mocking the distinct possibility. Is an RPF moderator going on record as calling CIA operations in foreign unfriendly nations "tin foil"? Maybe Im misreading your post but it sure sounds like it with your use of the word "contorted".

phill4paul

08-04-2009, 04:53 PM

Anyone who doesn't think this was a done deal before Clinton ever got on the plane to head over is a fool. The visit was all a dog and pony show.

Yeppers.

clb09

08-04-2009, 06:40 PM

Wow.

Bill Clinton...the hero of "libertarians"

Is this the Twilight Zone? :confused:

I guess Waco, Elian Gonzales, NAFTA, etc. from the 90s is all forgiven.

Sigh. :(

torchbearer

08-04-2009, 06:44 PM

Wow.

Bill Clinton...the hero of "libertarians"

Is this the Twilight Zone? :confused:

I guess Waco, Elian Gonzales, NAFTA, etc. from the 90s is all forgiven.

Sigh. :(

the melodrama.
i never said the guy was a good president.
I think he did a good job getting those people back.

TCE

08-04-2009, 06:54 PM

Wow.

Bill Clinton...the hero of "libertarians"

Is this the Twilight Zone? :confused:

I guess Waco, Elian Gonzales, NAFTA, etc. from the 90s is all forgiven.

Sigh. :(

Please ignore the Kosovo bombing as well.

Dr.3D

08-04-2009, 07:00 PM

I had a bet with someone how many posts it would take for this thread to get contorted into an "negative, inside-job/cia/clandestine, etc" thread ---- I almost won! :)

Well, they even reported on Faux News, that everything had been arranged before Clinton ever got on the plane.

TCE

08-04-2009, 07:04 PM

Well, they even reported on Faux News, that everything had been arranged before Clinton ever got on the plane.

That's pretty much how it always works. Karl Rove said the exact same thing a while back on The O'Reilly Factor. He said that anything involving international relations is planned well in advance and the entire meeting is for the pictures and publicity.

BenIsForRon

08-04-2009, 09:05 PM

These were brave journalists, I'm glad we got them back.

All you have to do is give Kim's ego a little stroke and he'll bend for you. Good to know for the future, I won't be so worried about next time. All we have to do is send over a head of state for the afternoon!

Cowlesy

08-04-2009, 09:14 PM

Surely you're not mocking the distinct possibility. Is an RPF moderator going on record as calling CIA operations in foreign unfriendly nations "tin foil"? Maybe Im misreading your post but it sure sounds like it with your use of the word "contorted".

Oh for heaven's sake devil. I am saying that the likely chain of events is this reporter's big-whig sister Lisa Ling through all her media contacts got in touch with President Clinton (because the N. Koreans openly mocked Hillary, so she couldn't do it), and that our diplomats offered Bubba up to go speak with him and take some pictures in exchange for releasing the girls (wtf does Korea need them for anyway).

Bubba gets back in the spotlight to be Mr. Hero (a + for him), Kim Jong-Il gets some nice propaganda footage for his slave population (a+ for him), and we get some idiot journalists back (a + for the family).

Why does it have to be more difficult than that?

FunkBuddha

08-04-2009, 09:34 PM

I'll bet him and Kim Jong Il sat around and watched porn together for hours.

Imperial

08-04-2009, 10:08 PM

Probably exchanged some nuclear weapon plans for them. Old habits die hard.

LOL, Operation MERLIN 2.0?

Imperial

08-04-2009, 10:16 PM

If you believe the official story. :rolleyes:

Anybody else noticed a lot of Americans seem to be "wandering" across borders into areas we aren't very friendly with lately and getting caught? Just last nite front page of Yahoo was 3 different ongoing cases of it. North Korea, Iran (second time, if you include the reporter that was recently released after being convicted of spying) and Myanmar. I don't think these are cases of innocent Americans just mistakenly wandering around. It reeks of CIA propaganda and cover stories for failed spy entry. Notice that they are all around mid 20's age? The CIA recruits heavily on college campuses.

And now North Korea releases the two "reporters" only after Bill Clinton himself, a former CIA man, shows up. Believe the official story if you want but this reeks of CIA meddling.

How is Bill Clinton a CIA man? From everything I've seen, he was not focused at all on foreign policy at the outset of his presidency. In fact, the CIA lost sway in the 90s because Clinton didn't back his appointee too much.

But it is true the CIA has used journalists as a cover in the past. The story of the iranian journalist and accused spy (Roxana Saberi) fit the mold of the CIA story I was told by CIA agent Jim Olson is standard practice in the field- say it was a wrongfully convicted America and disavow any CIA connection if an agent is caught in the act who actually was working for the CIA. Only in rare cases though does the government bail out caught agents though.

But that doesnt mean every instance means it is a spy. North Korea also has a weird streak of following Iran's lead on means of inciting the West. For example, North Korea happened to fire a satellite (and failed) right after Iran fired off its satellite (and succeeded).

Vessol

08-04-2009, 10:18 PM

Whats with the sudden Clinton love?

james1906

08-04-2009, 10:38 PM

Whats with the sudden Clinton love?

A broken clock gets it right twice a day.

devil21

08-04-2009, 11:17 PM

How is Bill Clinton a CIA man? From everything I've seen, he was not focused at all on foreign policy at the outset of his presidency. In fact, the CIA lost sway in the 90s because Clinton didn't back his appointee too much.

But it is true the CIA has used journalists as a cover in the past. The story of the iranian journalist and accused spy (Roxana Saberi) fit the mold of the CIA story I was told by CIA agent Jim Olson is standard practice in the field- say it was a wrongfully convicted America and disavow any CIA connection if an agent is caught in the act who actually was working for the CIA. Only in rare cases though does the government bail out caught agents though.

But that doesnt mean every instance means it is a spy. North Korea also has a weird streak of following Iran's lead on means of inciting the West. For example, North Korea happened to fire a satellite (and failed) right after Iran fired off its satellite (and succeeded).

Just Google terms like "Bill Clinton drugs CIA" or "Clinton Mena airport CIA". You should find enough hits to keep you busy for a good while.

You're right that it doesn't mean it's always the CIA. But when a spate of incidents happen during a period of increased tensions with these other countries, I think it's pretty foolish to think we just have a lot of American hikers and journalists that can't read a map or work a GPS, stumbling across borders into those unfriendly countries. The timing has been perfect for the CIA to get to work. Iran's recent unrest has been well documented with continued claims of Western interference and support. Plus Iran is already claiming that the 3 "hikers" are spies, fwiw. North Korea is in the process of a power transition between KJ Il and his third son, among the other recent issues. Myanmar is an interesting topic considering the US/China financial relationship these days and the US citizen was actually arrested inside the opposition leader's home while she is under house arrest. Anyway, my original point was that these incidents are fitting the mold of failed intelligence operations (ok, even if they aren't CIA but rather DIA or NSA, etc...does it really matter?) and the usual bs lies and diversions that go along with that.

There's tons of instances of US citizens breaking the laws of foreign countries and facing that country's justice system and serving their sentence just like everyone else. The Discovery Channel (I think it is) even has a show devoted to it called Locked Up Abroad. But no, instead Bill Clinton is spending taxpayer money to personally pick these people up on an unmarked private jet after meeting with KJ Il personally. We should know by now that there are two sets of rules in the today's world. One for the "special people" and one for the "commoners". Commoners don't get the private jet treatment.

Sandra

08-04-2009, 11:23 PM

Clinton rescued journalists employed by his vice pres. (Current TV). Too damned convenient. Is there an effort to create an exploratory committee to weigh getting Bill in again? Laws be damned of course. Anyway, who thought "Let's send Bill to N Korea!".

muh_roads

08-04-2009, 11:51 PM

Please ignore the Kosovo bombing as well.

And the "Iraqi Liberation Act of 1998". That wonderful act that Dubya used as an excuse as one of the reasons he should get his war. "If Bill got authority why can't I?"

Imperial

08-05-2009, 12:04 AM

You're right that it doesn't mean it's always the CIA. But when a spate of incidents happen during a period of increased tensions with these other countries, I think it's pretty foolish to think we just have a lot of American hikers and journalists that can't read a map or work a GPS, stumbling across borders into those unfriendly countries. The timing has been perfect for the CIA to get to work. Iran's recent unrest has been well documented with continued claims of Western interference and support. Plus Iran is already claiming that the 3 "hikers" are spies, fwiw. North Korea is in the process of a power transition between KJ Il and his third son, among the other recent issues. Myanmar is an interesting topic considering the US/China financial relationship these days and the US citizen was actually arrested inside the opposition leader's home while she is under house arrest. Anyway, my original point was that these incidents are fitting the mold of failed intelligence operations (ok, even if they aren't CIA but rather DIA or NSA, etc...does it really matter?) and the usual bs lies and diversions that go along with that.

There's tons of instances of US citizens breaking the laws of foreign countries and facing that country's justice system and serving their sentence just like everyone else. The Discovery Channel (I think it is) even has a show devoted to it called Locked Up Abroad. But no, instead Bill Clinton is spending taxpayer money to personally pick these people up on an unmarked private jet after meeting with KJ Il personally. We should know by now that there are two sets of rules in the today's world. One for the "special people" and one for the "commoners". Commoners don't get the private jet treatment.

The Myanmar one to me was pretty obviously an ordinary citizen. He has broken in before. We have heard no word of the US trying to get him out, and he could be imprisioned for 5 years. His level of sophistication was spending all his money to go to Myanmar and snorkel in her lake to sneak in to her house. And then there is no end-game to that operation.

But it is a fact that MOST CIA people are left loocked up if they are busted. There are a few exceptions of course, but on the whole they can't afford to bailout everybody. It is more about the specific situation. The drumbeat against Iran and North Korea means that any story that has broken ground that seems to victimize Americans for the benefit of the "Axis of Evil" in Bush's rhetoric demands some sort of "proactive" policy action, whatever that may be. That is where the exceptions come in I believe.

Iran has also claimed to capture animal spies too... Iran has pretty decent intelligent networks compared to other states (in the last thirty years they have twice rolled up our clandestine networks in iran) but I suspect a healthy amount of hyperbole to appeal to nationalism, just like the GOP does with Al Queda. Of course, Im sure Western intelligence agencies are active in Iran. But ow much is rhetoric and how much is real adventurism is hard to tell.

RevolutionSD

08-05-2009, 12:24 AM

This forum has really gone downhill if people are praising Bill fucking Clinton for any reason. Of course this was totally staged, haven't we learned anything about the gov't/media in the past couple of years?

BlackTerrel

08-05-2009, 03:19 AM

One of the articles referred to one of the recent Iranian captured hikers as a "Professional Traveler". I guess that's what they are calling CIA operatives these days. A pro that just can't seem to get the hang of that dang GPS once they get near international borders. Yeah right. What do you suppose is a better entry point into Iran? I doubt the CIA flies into Tehran on the red eye.

It's probably easier to fly in than through their heavily watched border. How then do you go from hiking across the border to infiltrating top levels of government to spy on them?

Objectivist

08-05-2009, 03:35 AM

Praise him for saving Al Gore's employees from Current? WHy?

devil21

08-05-2009, 04:20 AM

It's probably easier to fly in than through their heavily watched border. How then do you go from hiking across the border to infiltrating top levels of government to spy on them?

Who said anything about infiltrating top levels of government? You've read too many Tom Clancy novels. Fueling instability doesn't happen in the top levels since the top levels are all Elites (no matter which country we are talking about) that know each other. It starts at the bottom and "grass-roots" it's way in. Take the last month of Iranian protests, riots, tear gas, etc. That's not top level government feeding that fire. That's the "grass-roots" causing problems for the establishment. Quite often that is funded and directed by CIA. Do the people that show up to clash with riot police know the CIA is their sponsor? Probably not. They have an ideaology that they want to follow and the CIA gives them the means to do it. The CIA just picks and chooses which factions to support that further the goals of the leadership. Sometimes the leadership is the US, sometimes it's Israel.

Not a fan of Mahmoud these days? Let's give some pissed off Iranians some money and motivation to act against Mahmoud and declare the election a fraud and start rioting. Was it a fraud? Who knows. But the CIA will be all too happy to pay for dinner for every rioter that thinks it is.

Big picture man, big picture.

Sandra

08-05-2009, 06:09 AM

Didn't thousands predict that it would be Bill Clinton that would do it? When 2 popular Current TV "journalists" go missing in N Korea.... how damned predictable is that? Al and Bill become relevant again.

BenIsForRon

08-05-2009, 01:20 PM

Kraig

08-05-2009, 01:46 PM

BenIsForRon

08-05-2009, 01:50 PM

What have they published that has any value?

Good question, I don't know. All I know is that the Chinese/NK border is a pretty intense place, and they're brave for going there. I guess they didn't mean to go into NK, but they were trying to get info on the conditions at the border. Security is super intense, and the Chinese will return North Korean refugees, even though international law requires all countries to take on refugees.

Kraig

08-05-2009, 01:53 PM

Good question, I don't know. All I know is that the Chinese/NK border is a pretty intense place, and they're brave for going there. I guess they didn't mean to go into NK, but they were trying to get info on the conditions at the border. Security is super intense, and the Chinese will return North Korean refugees, even though international law requires all countries to take on refugees.

..so you respect them for doing something dangerous...

you shouldn't go around saying they are some kind of truth heroes when you don't even know...especially when the vast majority of mainstream reporters are full of shit

ravedown

08-05-2009, 01:53 PM

ughh this story is so annoying-what exactly were these brave journalists really going to uncover that isn't common knowledge in the first place? the girls sister already pissed on n. korea a couple years earlier with a story about civil right/ living condiditons and then her sister decides to go do the same thing? pretty bright...also-something tells me you can't waltz across the border with a video camera so im sure they snuck in knowing the rules...they got caught-and busted and we had to kiss a little ass(pay a little $$$) to get them out-hero journalists? no.

BenIsForRon

08-05-2009, 01:56 PM

..so you respect them for doing something dangerous...

you shouldn't go around saying they are some kind of truth heroes when you don't even know...especially when the vast majority of mainstream reporters are full of shit

ughh this story is so annoying-what exactly were these brave journalists really going to uncover that isn't common knowledge in the first place? the girls sister already pissed on n. korea a couple years earlier with a story about civil right/ living condiditons and then her sister decides to go do the same thing? pretty bright...also-something tells me you can't waltz across the border with a video camera so im sure they snuck in knowing the rules...they got caught-and busted and we had to kiss a little ass(pay a little $$$) to get them out-hero journalists? no.

It's not all about learning the latest abuses or anything like that, its about keeping the story alive. The more attention you draw to it, the more pressure China feels to honor the human rights of the refugees. The refugees have the right to not be thrown back into a place where they will be tortured and killed.

devil21

08-05-2009, 02:10 PM

Here's the video of them reuniting with their families. I just want to say fuck all of y'all who are talking smack about these reporters. These girls are putting their lives on the line to find the truth. Meanwhile, you sit in front of your computer, pulling conspiracy theories out of your ass and call ME stupid.

http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/08/05/video-laura-ling-and-euna-lee-reunited-with-family/

Try to justify it however you wish but it's still meddling and we don't advocate meddling in other nation's affairs here. And that's even if I didn't think they were working for the US government. Gotta love that picture of both Bill and Kim Jong Il sitting there with scowls on their faces.

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/afp/20090805/capt.photo_1249455474124-1-0.jpg

BenIsForRon

08-05-2009, 02:13 PM

Try to justify it however you wish but it's still meddling and we don't advocate meddling in other nation's affairs here. And that's even if I didn't think they were working for the US government. Gotta love that picture of both Bill and Kim Jong Il sitting there with scowls on their faces.

WRONG! Individuals, and groups of individuals, are free to meddle as much as they like. The rules are different when you're talking about a few people versus an entire government.

pcosmar

08-05-2009, 02:15 PM

SEOUL, South Korea - North Korean leader Kim Jong Il has pardoned two jailed American journalists and ordered their release following an unannounced meeting with former President Bill Clinton, media reports said Tuesday.

Clinton met earlier Tuesday with Kim after arriving in Pyongyang on a surprise visit, holding "exhaustive" talks that covered a wide range of topics, state-run media said.

Bullshit.
It was No surprise visit.
It was a backroom deal.
Call it what it was.

devil21

08-05-2009, 02:17 PM

WRONG! Individuals, and groups of individuals, are free to meddle as much as they like. The rules are different when you're talking about a few people versus an entire government.

Really? So if a group of Americans, without government support, decided to meddle overseas, then blowback wouldn't still exist for that? It doesn't only have to be the government meddling to cause ramifications on the rest of us. Consider the crap that two "journalists" have caused. What did we have to give up to get the meddlers back? Some military weaponry? Taxpayer money? Blowback from meddling comes in many forms and it's not always gov't sponsored.

BenIsForRon

08-05-2009, 02:20 PM

So you think journalists should just turn a blind eye to oppressed peoples? Newspapers should have just ignored the mass murder of Jews during the Holocaust?

jmdrake

08-05-2009, 02:44 PM

Good for Bill.

Coincidentally also around the same age that people go hiking. I'm not an expert but my guess is if you wanted to spy on Iran you wouldn't hike across the Iran/Iraq border.

Why on earth would ANY American go hiking around in the Iran/Iraq border unless he was A) in the military and ordered to do it, B) a journalist and paid to do it or C) a spy and ordered/paid to do it? Maybe this is some new extreme thrill sport like bungee jumping with a burning cord? Even if you don't get captured/tortured/beheaded, there's the distinct possibility of stepping on landmines or just plain getting shot. Really claiming to be a "lost tourist" isn't a bad cover if you happen to get captured by humane people. What else are you going to say?

jmdrake

08-05-2009, 02:48 PM

Bill>Obama

Jesse Jackson got an American pilot released when Reagan was president so Jesse>Reagan. :rolleyes: It's sometimes easier for someone out of power to negotiate.

torchbearer

08-05-2009, 02:58 PM

Jesse Jackson got an American pilot released when Reagan was president so Jesse>Reagan. :rolleyes: It's sometimes easier for someone out of power to negotiate.

Bill balanced his budgets, how is barry doing with that?

jmdrake

08-05-2009, 03:42 PM

Bill balanced his budgets, how is barry doing with that?

I can't believe we're debating which leftwing traitor is better. :rolleyes: Bill was able to push through a massive tax increase too. And he reaped the benefits of the end of the cold war. Obama inherited two wars (one of which he is definitely escalating), huge deficits and a sagging economy. Did Bill balance any budgets in his first year in office? Oh yeah, and I voted for Bill twice (I regret that decision) and I voted AGAINST Obama. They both suck.

phill4paul

08-05-2009, 03:48 PM

They both suck.

Yeppers!

devil21

08-05-2009, 05:16 PM

So you think journalists should just turn a blind eye to oppressed peoples? Newspapers should have just ignored the mass murder of Jews during the Holocaust?

Journalists shouldn't break laws of foreign nations to bring their "news" of oppressed peoples, then expect a free ride home on Bill Clinton's private plane at taxpayer expense after they get caught. Their actions cost the rest of us. And that's still assuming they are legit journalists, not spies. And considering the amount of lies and propaganda being disseminated by American "journalists" these days, I'd be pretty much ok with them focusing on reporting US issues truthfully before they go digging into other country's affairs.

As for the tired Nazi Germany example (why is that always the last refuge of a failed argument?), it wasn't our business what was happening there. We aren't the policeman of the world. But if private organizations wished to report on it, fine. Just don't go breaking laws to do it and then expect the rest of us to bail you out of your stupid decision.

BenIsForRon

08-05-2009, 05:22 PM

But if private organizations wished to report on it, fine. .

There you go, that wasn't so hard.

Evidently, you follow the Ayn Rand idea that empathy is worthless emotion. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I very much appreciate private journalists investigating what is going on elsewhere in the world. Last time I checked, the universe does not revolve around me.

devil21

08-05-2009, 05:31 PM

There you go, that wasn't so hard.

Evidently, you follow the Ayn Rand idea that empathy is worthless emotion. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I very much appreciate private journalists investigating what is going on elsewhere in the world. Last time I checked, the universe does not revolve around me.

Not at all. I believe very much in empathy, in the sense of being able to put yourself in someone else's shoes to learn other perspectives. This is how I can support non-intervention. I can fully understand why other country's people are pissed off at Americans. However, I do not have empathy for people that knowingly make foolish decisions and then get bailed out of that foolish decision to the detriment of everyone else. That would be like feeling empathy for Citibank. As always the rule to live by should be "harm no one else". These journalists/spies harmed others.

clb09

08-05-2009, 05:41 PM

YouTube - July 29, 2009 Raleigh, NC President Obama (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6AiiWUZ6cU&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.plainsradio.com%2F&feature=player_embedded)

JK/SEA

08-05-2009, 05:47 PM

1. Bill is a womanizer and considered a male chauvinist.
2. most asian men treat women in a subserviant manner i.e. it's their culture to be so.
3. Kim Jong Ill likes Bill because of how he treated Hilliary, and its no secret he doesn't like Hilliary.
4.Bill is considered one of the 'good ol' boys' by Kim, and thats how he managed to get in to get those morons a 'special' pardon, something our Secretary of State couldn't do. I wonder why?
5. Kim used this issue to make himself look benevolent and 'nice' to the world.
6. looks like the 'world' fell for this BS.

the end.

hey, did ya hear Paula Abdul is off american idol?...boohoo.

BenIsForRon

08-05-2009, 05:59 PM

Not at all. I believe very much in empathy, in the sense of being able to put yourself in someone else's shoes to learn other perspectives. This is how I can support non-intervention. I can fully understand why other country's people are pissed off at Americans. However, I do not have empathy for people that knowingly make foolish decisions and then get bailed out of that foolish decision to the detriment of everyone else. That would be like feeling empathy for Citibank. As always the rule to live by should be "harm no one else". These journalists/spies harmed others.

Ok, well I guess we disagree on the role of journalism in an open society. I believe journalists should try to expose what's happening on the border. The more people that know about it, the more likely China will stop sending North Koreans back to their death. I could give two shits about what nationality any of these people are, I just wish people didn't have die just because their dictator is a fucking madman.

EDIT: And given that sending Bill Clinton, a private citizien, over there would be one of the only ways to free the women, I totally endorse it. I totally don't wish them to work in labor camps for 13 years just because they crossed some imaginary boundary. It's not like we had to bomb NK, we just had to send Bill over. Now everybody's happy, except for you I guess.

torchbearer

08-05-2009, 07:08 PM

I can't believe we're debating which leftwing traitor is better. :rolleyes: Bill was able to push through a massive tax increase too. And he reaped the benefits of the end of the cold war. Obama inherited two wars (one of which he is definitely escalating), huge deficits and a sagging economy. Did Bill balance any budgets in his first year in office? Oh yeah, and I voted for Bill twice (I regret that decision) and I voted AGAINST Obama. They both suck.

Bill>Obama means bill is better than obama.
i didn't say I liked Bill.
do you believe that bill wasn't better than obama?
not raising the deficit is a huge improvement over the current monkey running the circus.

0zzy

08-05-2009, 11:35 PM

clb09

08-06-2009, 05:42 AM

So much anger, so little humanity.

Libertarianism isn't about "humanity"

It's about "reality"

There is no such thing as a "bleeding heart libertarian"

And you would be angry too if you really learned what Republicans and Democrats have done to the United States.

jmdrake

08-06-2009, 05:50 AM

Bill>Obama means bill is better than obama.
i didn't say I liked Bill.
do you believe that bill wasn't better than obama?
not raising the deficit is a huge improvement over the current monkey running the circus.

Again Bill Clinton massively raised taxes! Do you agree with the "blue dog democrats" who claim to be "fiscally conservative" because they "pay as you go" WITH YOUR MONEY? And Bill Clinton inherited a "peace dividend" while Obama inherited a "war debt". If Bill Clinton had been elected last year instead of when he was I doubt things would have been any different. It's not the "monkey" running the circus that we have to worry about. It's the ringmaster. The POTUS is NOT running the show. Plus imagine how things would have been under Clinton if he had got his immediate agenda (Hillarycare) passed! Clinton also proposed a carbon tax (couldn't get it passed) and a version of the patriot act (couldn't get it passed). If anything Bill Clinton is "better" because he was less effective at pushing the same agenda. He tried to do Hillarycare first and got stalled. Obama saved that until later. Smart move on his part (or rather his ringmaster's part).

Regards,

John M. Drake

jmdrake

08-06-2009, 06:01 AM

Bill>Obama means bill is better than obama.
i didn't say I liked Bill.
do you believe that bill wasn't better than obama?
not raising the deficit is a huge improvement over the current monkey running the circus.

Please see:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=2249388#post2249388

At this point in Bill Clinton's presidency the deficit was still rising. It was after his party lost the house and senate that deficits went down. Hopefully Obama will have that same stroke of luck.

Sandra

08-06-2009, 06:11 AM

Ok, well I guess we disagree on the role of journalism in an open society. I believe journalists should try to expose what's happening on the border. The more people that know about it, the more likely China will stop sending North Koreans back to their death. I could give two shits about what nationality any of these people are, I just wish people didn't have die just because their dictator is a fucking madman.

EDIT: And given that sending Bill Clinton, a private citizien, over there would be one of the only ways to free the women, I totally endorse it. I totally don't wish them to work in labor camps for 13 years just because they crossed some imaginary boundary. It's not like we had to bomb NK, we just had to send Bill over. Now everybody's happy, except for you I guess.

Apparently you missed the part where the meeting was indeed arranged entirely by government officials at taxpayers' expense. This was a planned PR stunt to bump Current's viewership and create white knight scenario for Clinton. C'mon... Lisa Ling's sister? How damn convenient.

emazur

08-06-2009, 06:23 AM

I like how everyone equates libertarianism to "I could give a shiz about two so called "journalist" who were somewhere they shouldn't have been. this reeks of cia propaganda. wtf is bill doing? I hate this all!"

So much anger, so little humanity.

Agreed. I can't say I'm too surprised - I see Nazi sympathizers on this board, people who think we'd be better off is all Muslims were dead, and people who think giving gays a beating to "cure" them is acceptable behavior. And BTW Current's "journalists" are quite capable of doing a hell of a job - one look at their video, America's Secret War With Iran, which you can watch free and legit on their website:
http://current.com/items/89438469_americas-secret-war-with-iran.htm
should be enough to change your minds. But maybe we'd all be better off if instead of investigating things in places they shouldn't be, the staff ought to go on the internet and bitch about things that bother them. No proof needed, just baseless bitching will do.

Hey people, on Current's homepage they have a section where you can leave Laura and Euna a welcome back video message:
http://current.com/welcome-home-laura-and-euna/
Why don't you go ahead and record yourself saying "Fuck you"

BenIsForRon

08-06-2009, 01:20 PM

Apparently you missed the part where the meeting was indeed arranged entirely by government officials at taxpayers' expense. This was a planned PR stunt to bump Current's viewership and create white knight scenario for Clinton. C'mon... Lisa Ling's sister? How damn convenient.

Lisa Ling is a journalist, her sister followed in her footsteps. Therefore, occam's razor concludes you're a dumbass. Whoops, ad hominem attack. I mean you're a douche. DAMNIT!

And I know we payed for the negotiations, but the constitution allows treaties, and I see this as a tiny treaty. Oh well, I guess I'm a big government anti-freedom communist.