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View Full Version : Democrats build momentum, as we bicker with Neocons




klamath
09-26-2007, 11:02 AM
As I read more and more stories about how the Democrats are building momentum in fund raising and polling data I get the feeling that we are missing the boat.

Sure RP in running against the other Republicans now and therefore a lot of effort needs to be concentrated on those opponents but I see us rank in file supporters running against Bush/Cheney while the Democrats are getting a free pass on their contribution to this war and the state of affairs of the country. Bush/Cheney are history and there is no way the Democrats can run against RP as a Bush man.

Maybe I have not seen it and there is one out there but I would like to see someone with knowledge on making Utube videos make one contrasting the Democratic statements about going to war with Iraq and RP's. You could go all the way back to the first gulf war and it would really show who really means what they say. There are the debates abouts the Iraqi Liberation Act in in '98 that Bill Clinton pushed for and signed. Sure Bill isn't running but to a huge number of the rank in file Democrats, a vote for Hillary is a vote to return the country to the Clinton years. I have seen clips of Al Gore slamming Bush senior for not going after Iraqi WMD when he and Bill were running against Bush senior. The list could go on and on.

The video would not run Republicans voters away (except strong prowar ones which RP will never get anyhow) because you are not attacking them but it might bring in more Democrats when they see how they are being sold lies by the Democratic candidates. Some Democrats though will never vote for RP because they are smart enough to know the Democratic candidates are lying through their teeth about getting out of the war but want to use it to get in power so they can get all their domestic socialism inacted.

I have seen Republican videos out there showing all the Democratic statements for the war but it was just to show their hypocracy. A video showing RP consistently speaking the truth as oposed to the democrats could be really. powerful.

If we don't start hammering Hillary and gang they are going to get handed a huge electoral mandate to install more socialism. If you think Shrub is minipulative and power hungry wait until you have Hillary with a huge mandate.

DjLoTi
09-26-2007, 11:03 AM
There's 2 sides to the war. The dems, and the pubs.

We've got to win the war against the pubs before we win against the dems.

Sematary
09-26-2007, 11:05 AM
As I read more and more stories about how the Democrats are building momentum in fund raising and polling data I get the feeling that we are missing the boat.

Sure RP in running against the other Republicans now and therefore a lot of effort needs to be concentrated on those opponents but I see us rank in file supporters running against Bush/Cheney while the Democrats are getting a free pass on their contribution to this war and the state of affairs of the country. Bush/Cheney are history and there is no way the Democrats can run against RP as a Bush man.

Maybe I have not seen it and there is one out there but I would like to see someone with knowledge on making Utube videos make one contrasting the Democratic statements about going to war with Iraq and RP's. You could go all the way back to the first gulf war and it would really show who really means what they say. There are the debates abouts the Iraqi Liberation Act in in '98 that Bill Clinton pushed for and signed. Sure Bill isn't running but to a huge number of the rank in file Democrats, a vote for Hillary is a vote to return the country to the Clinton years. I have seen clips of Al Gore slamming Bush senior for not going after Iraqi WMD when he and Bill were running against Bush senior. The list could go on and on.

The video would not run Republicans voters away (except strong prowar ones which RP will never get anyhow) because you are not attacking them but it might bring in more Democrats when they see how they are being sold lies by the Democratic candidates. Some Democrats though will never vote for RP because they are smart enough to know the Democratic candidates are lying through their teeth about getting out of the war but want to use it to get in power so they can get all their domestic socialism inacted.

I have seen Republican videos out there showing all the Democratic statements for the war but it was just to show their hypocracy. A video showing RP consistently speaking the truth as oposed to the democrats could be really. powerful.

If we don't start hammering Hillary and gang they are going to get handed a huge electoral mandate to install more socialism. If you think Shrub is minipulative and power hungry wait until you have Hillary with a huge mandate.

I think that when Ron Paul hits the general election he'll be able to show what hypocrites and liars they really are.

hells_unicorn
09-26-2007, 11:05 AM
From my own end, I've spent equal time attacking Democrats (minus Mike Gravel who I like) on youtube and myspace. Hillary Clinton is the most loathsome of all the candidates running in my view, even worse than Ghouliani.

Delaware
09-26-2007, 11:05 AM
2008-9 is a democratic year, the republicans are committing suicide over iraq, high spending, privacy issues, and other things.

In all likelyhood, unless RP gets the nomination, a democrat will win.

Lord Xar
09-26-2007, 11:06 AM
As I read more and more stories about how the Democrats are building momentum in fund raising and polling data I get the feeling that we are missing the boat.

Sure RP in running against the other Republicans now and therefore a lot of effort needs to be concentrated on those opponents but I see us rank in file supporters running against Bush/Cheney while the Democrats are getting a free pass on their contribution to this war and the state of affairs of the country. Bush/Cheney are history and there is no way the Democrats can run against RP as a Bush man.

Maybe I have not seen it and there is one out there but I would like to see someone with knowledge on making Utube videos make one contrasting the Democratic statements about going to war with Iraq and RP's. You could go all the way back to the first gulf war and it would really show who really means what they say. There are the debates abouts the Iraqi Liberation Act in in '98 that Bill Clinton pushed for and signed. Sure Bill isn't running but to a huge number of the rank in file Democrats, a vote for Hillary is a vote to return the country to the Clinton years. I have seen clips of Al Gore slamming Bush senior for not going after Iraqi WMD when he and Bill were running against Bush senior. The list could go on and on.

The video would not run Republicans voters away (except strong prowar ones which RP will never get anyhow) because you are not attacking them but it might bring in more Democrats when they see how they are being sold lies by the Democratic candidates. Some Democrats though will never vote for RP because they are smart enough to know the Democratic candidates are lying through their teeth about getting out of the war but want to use it to get in power so they can get all their domestic socialism inacted.

I have seen Republican videos out there showing all the Democratic statements for the war but it was just to show their hypocracy. A video showing RP consistently speaking the truth as oposed to the democrats could be really. powerful.

If we don't start hammering Hillary and gang they are going to get handed a huge electoral mandate to install more socialism. If you think Shrub is minipulative and power hungry wait until you have Hillary with a huge mandate.

Also, keep in mind.. when you have MAJOR stars coming and supporting Obama, or Hillary -- what can you do? People are sheeple -- anybody who has done just a LITTLE RESEARCH would not choose either of them... so, their momentum is based on persons with little knowledge of what is really wrong with America... when we start waking them up.. they will turn......

noxagol
09-26-2007, 11:08 AM
The ONLY battle is with the Republican party. Once Ron Paul gets the nomination, he won't be able to be ignored and the message will do all the recruiting for us after that. Winning the nomination is as good as winning the general election.

jj111
09-26-2007, 11:13 AM
But we need liberals to crossover and register Republican!!!

Use the Liberal voterguide at

http://ronpaul.meetup.com/36/files/

klamath
09-26-2007, 11:14 AM
You are missing the point. If a video like this was made it would help RP get votes for the nomination! RP is running against all of them and his voter base needs to came from all areas. Do a search on this forum on how many times neocon is used versus Democrat? We are running against a group that is done politically.

randolphus maximus
09-26-2007, 11:15 AM
2008-9 is a democratic year, the republicans are committing suicide over iraq, high spending, privacy issues, and other things.

In all likelihood, unless RP gets the nomination, a democrat will win.

A good point, if 70% of the people are against the war in Iraq, how are any of the GOP candidates (aside from Dr. Paul) going to win in a general election? They can't be for the war before they go against it:rolleyes: It's a lose lose strategy for McRomneyson

The Dane
09-26-2007, 11:21 AM
A good point, if 70% of the people are against the war in Iraq, how are any of the GOP candidates (aside from Dr. Paul) going to win in a general election? They can't be for the war before they go against it:rolleyes: It's a lose lose strategy for McRomneyson

No its not, because they do not care of the interest of the people. Its their job to support the war, its the medias job to get them elected, so they can loose against a democrat.

They are just doing what they are told. And that is a win strategy for them (as long as they dont care about the people.)

klamath
09-26-2007, 11:30 AM
More videos attacking the Democratic candidates by comparing statements and actions. Any strong antiwar Democrat that sees that will want to vote for RP. As much as I hate to see it it there is the rally around your team mentality out there and if all the Republicans ever see is attacks on Republicans by RP supporters they shy away. There needs to be an equal amount of attacks against who we are really running against, the extreme powerhunger in both parties.

aksmith
09-26-2007, 11:31 AM
As I read more and more stories about how the Democrats are building momentum in fund raising and polling data I get the feeling that we are missing the boat.

Sure RP in running against the other Republicans now and therefore a lot of effort needs to be concentrated on those opponents but I see us rank in file supporters running against Bush/Cheney while the Democrats are getting a free pass on their contribution to this war and the state of affairs of the country. Bush/Cheney are history and there is no way the Democrats can run against RP as a Bush man.

Maybe I have not seen it and there is one out there but I would like to see someone with knowledge on making Utube videos make one contrasting the Democratic statements about going to war with Iraq and RP's. You could go all the way back to the first gulf war and it would really show who really means what they say. There are the debates abouts the Iraqi Liberation Act in in '98 that Bill Clinton pushed for and signed. Sure Bill isn't running but to a huge number of the rank in file Democrats, a vote for Hillary is a vote to return the country to the Clinton years. I have seen clips of Al Gore slamming Bush senior for not going after Iraqi WMD when he and Bill were running against Bush senior. The list could go on and on.

The video would not run Republicans voters away (except strong prowar ones which RP will never get anyhow) because you are not attacking them but it might bring in more Democrats when they see how they are being sold lies by the Democratic candidates. Some Democrats though will never vote for RP because they are smart enough to know the Democratic candidates are lying through their teeth about getting out of the war but want to use it to get in power so they can get all their domestic socialism inacted.

I have seen Republican videos out there showing all the Democratic statements for the war but it was just to show their hypocracy. A video showing RP consistently speaking the truth as oposed to the democrats could be really. powerful.

If we don't start hammering Hillary and gang they are going to get handed a huge electoral mandate to install more socialism. If you think Shrub is minipulative and power hungry wait until you have Hillary with a huge mandate.

I think you have a great idea. I hate the neocons as much as anyone here, but what is Ron Paul's major problem in the Republican Party? (Besides being against the war.) It's that he's not seen as a Republican. He's always seen as criticizing other Republicans and not criticizing Dems enough. This would make the point that he's the only consistent and principled opponent of the Iraq War, while making the point that the Democrats are complete, gutless hypocrites on the issue. Let someone say he's in the wrong party after a video like that. They'll look even more foolish than they do now. In fact, I'd also add a clip that shows he was in favor of going after Bin Laden, just so he doesn't look like some pacifist nut job.

erowe1
09-26-2007, 11:32 AM
There's 2 sides to the war. The dems, and the pubs.

We've got to win the war against the pubs before we win against the dems.

This is the kind of ignorant statement that 20-year-old first-time voters keep making. We are not in a war against the Republicans, we are Republicans, and the current stage of this war is to gain to votes of the rest of the Republicans, not to make them our enemies. Going on the offensive against the presumed Democratic opponents is a good way to gain the attention and support of the Republicans we want to befriend.

klamath
09-26-2007, 11:46 AM
I think you have a great idea. I hate the neocons as much as anyone here, but what is Ron Paul's major problem in the Republican Party? (Besides being against the war.) It's that he's not seen as a Republican. He's always seen as criticizing other Republicans and not criticizing Dems enough. This would make the point that he's the only consistent and principled opponent of the Iraq War, while making the point that the Democrats are complete, gutless hypocrites on the issue. Let someone say he's in the wrong party after a video like that. They'll look even more foolish than they do now. In fact, I'd also add a clip that shows he was in favor of going after Bin Laden, just so he doesn't look like some pacifist nut job.

Clips of RP being against Bill Clinton's Bosnia and Kosovo wars would be helpful.

Taco John
09-26-2007, 12:09 PM
Us bickering with Neocons is inevitable.

Kregener
09-26-2007, 12:14 PM
Here is my take on the Demoblican side of the race:

Women will vote for Hillary en masse.

Blacks will vote for Obama en masse.

These two will take their share of the rest of the bliss-ninny vote.

The rest are also-rans.

The Demoblicans will select Hillary as their candidate. She will not have a majority, but enough to win it.

Due to the fiasco of the Bush Administration, the ONLY Republican who can beat her is Ron Paul.

IMHO...

Taco John
09-26-2007, 12:21 PM
Here's my take:

Obama isn't attacking Hillary because he sees the writing on the wall: he's not going to beat her. She's got name recognition and history behind her, and there is no amount of money that is going to change that. He won't attack her because he knows that if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. His base, and her base combined will be a POWERFUL combination. He's going to be her VEEP.

To counter this, the Republican establishment will push HARD for a Giuliani/McCain ticket, which is the only ticket that would have the name recognition to compare with the Hillary/Obama. Along the way, they're going to be swatting at Paul like mad, painting him as someone who is going to throw the election to the Democrats.

Bickering with Neocons is inevitable. We've got a long row to hoe. It would be great if we could seal things up in the primaries, but we need to be looking deeper than that to the RNC. We need to make it clear that our candidate is going to force a debate at the convention, and force a floor vote. It's going to be our delegates vs. theirs. The war mongers are going to have to defeat the anti-war vote in America before they get a shot at the Democrats.

EvilTwinkie
09-26-2007, 12:54 PM
I think its a good idea. By attacking the dems by respectfully educating them about Paul. Not only do we draw a larger audience because of search data, but we also send the message that we KNOW we are going to be the GOP nominee and we have already moved on to larger targets.

klamath
09-26-2007, 02:48 PM
Some of you guys are just reading the thread title. Sure we are going to fight with neo cons no doubt about that but some good solid attacks against the leading democrats on their hypocracy is going to turn some heads. Not all Republicans that are supporting the war are neocons.
As a republican this has been my opinion of the wars of the last 26 years and the reasons.
Invasion of Panama. Against it-not in our national defense.

Desert Storm. Supported it because I felt at the time Sadamn was intent on taking over the entire middle eastern oil and blackmailing the world and we would have ending up fighting a much bigger war later. From what I know now I wouldn't support it.

Somalia; Against it- nation building not in our national defense.

Bosnia; Against it- nation building, not in our national defense.

Kosovo; Against it- nation building, not in our national defense.

Afganistan: Supported it thought it was in our national defense. Not now-should have concentrated on just getting the terrorists themselves.

Iraq; Supported it- Bought the line that Sadamn had WMD and would use them against us.

There are a whole lot of reasons why they are still supporting the war other than being evil neocons. Once they make that switch like I did they are going to be looking for honesty in politics and seeing RP not being a hypocrite standing up to democrats as well as republicans will be apealing.

constituent
09-26-2007, 03:03 PM
Panama - Against it. NO wars for dope

LibertyEagle
09-26-2007, 03:09 PM
Here is my take on the Demoblican side of the race:

Women will vote for Hillary en masse.

Blacks will vote for Obama en masse.

These two will take their share of the rest of the bliss-ninny vote.



I have several friends who are African-Americans. None of them are voting for Obama or Hillary. Please don't make these broad brush statements like you just made. This type of thing is exactly what will drive people away.

Contrary to popular belief, most African-Americans can't stand the Revrun Jesse, or Al Sharpton and to imply that the majority will flock to Obama just because of his color is not true. However, it might just be a self-fulfilling prophecy if we keep categorizing people like this.

C'mon guys, let's not let the powers-that-be use race or anything else to divide us. We're all together in this effort to get our country back. You know.... WE THE PEOPLE... that's ALL of us.

klamath
09-26-2007, 04:12 PM
Here's my take:

Obama isn't attacking Hillary because he sees the writing on the wall: he's not going to beat her. She's got name recognition and history behind her, and there is no amount of money that is going to change that. He won't attack her because he knows that if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. His base, and her base combined will be a POWERFUL combination. He's going to be her VEEP.

To counter this, the Republican establishment will push HARD for a Giuliani/McCain ticket, which is the only ticket that would have the name recognition to compare with the Hillary/Obama. Along the way, they're going to be swatting at Paul like mad, painting him as someone who is going to throw the election to the Democrats.

Bickering with Neocons is inevitable. We've got a long row to hoe. It would be great if we could seal things up in the primaries, but we need to be looking deeper than that to the RNC. We need to make it clear that our candidate is going to force a debate at the convention, and force a floor vote. It's going to be our delegates vs. theirs. The war mongers are going to have to defeat the anti-war vote in America before they get a shot at the Democrats.

I agree with your first and second paragraphs- absolutely right. The third paragraph if we don't win NH I don't think we will have any delegates to fight with.
The way the primary season is set up once a standard candidate gets momentum they pretty well clean the slate and there is no contest. However if RP wins NH it will be a hard fought battle as RP is not a standard candidate and the establishment party people will be out fighting hard to keep RP from winning. The Reagan/Ford primary season was the last knock down drag out fight because Reagan was fighting the establishment Republicans.

libertythor
09-26-2007, 04:14 PM
Most people of any race are turned off by race baiters. Ron Paul could make some inroads into many traditional Democrat-leaning demographics.

Elwar
09-26-2007, 04:24 PM
Dems have Hillary vs Obama...Reps have Rudy,Fred,Mitt,John,Ron...

Donations, attention, etc are being split between them all. Also, Dems usually get more media attention anyway. Get used to that.

ronpaulyourmom
09-26-2007, 04:30 PM
The best possible scenario is Paul vs Hillary. Neo-cons hate Paul, but they hate hillary more? Paul might be able to rally the youth, and take the entire republican / LP / CP base at the same time. It would be a good battle.

If Obama manages to beat Hillary, I don't think any republican candidate has a chance at winning.

tiznow
09-26-2007, 04:35 PM
When the economy starts going sour and the sheep start to feel the pain, they look towards socialism for help. On top of the fact you had a president who decided to cut taxes for the rich and fight a war at the same time. this is one of the main reasons the democrats have the momentum (it goes beyond the war itself) here and will be a major obstacle for Ron Paul and any republican for that matter. His no tax, shrink government (government is such a huge percentage of our economy now so people with government jobs will run from ron paul out of fear), and no socialism, shrink welfare, etc. will be a tough sell right now. Especially to the baby boom generation who is looking to retire soon with little to no savings.

Bottom line there is a generational struggle brewing in some fashion unforunately the baby boom generation is the majority number wise.

The younger generation sees this system is unsustainable and we will be left to pay huge taxes to help sustain the older generation, and when we get old we won't see a dime of it.

While the older generation (who is also living longer) and who spent like crazy living for today and bought into this whole system of easy unlimited credit and still wants to retire early and have social security, medicare, and good health care are looking for the handouts to continue.

ctb619
09-26-2007, 04:36 PM
The best possible scenario is Paul vs Hillary. Neo-cons hate Paul, but they hate hillary more? Paul might be able to rally the youth, and take the entire republican / LP / CP base at the same time. It would be a good battle.

If Obama manages to beat Hillary, I don't think any republican candidate has a chance at winning.

Real Neoconservatives absolutely would support Hillary Clinton over Ron Paul.

BrianH
09-26-2007, 05:01 PM
Real Neoconservatives absolutely would support Hillary Clinton over Ron Paul.

Seems to me Hillary is their "guy"... the Republicans this time are just for window dressing. Which makes it all the more clear that RP is the only Republican to beat Hillary

ctb619
09-26-2007, 05:18 PM
Seems to me Hillary is their "guy"... the Republicans this time are just for window dressing. Which makes it all the more clear that RP is the only Republican to beat Hillary

She accepts all of the fundamental tenets of neoconservatism, while she disagrees on some of the details, she only pays lip service to her anti-war supporters on the left. She has made herself acceptable the eastern establishment, and is toeing the line on Iran quite nicely.

Bob Cochran
09-26-2007, 05:23 PM
There's 2 sides to the war. The dems, and the pubs.

We've got to win the war against the pubs before we win against the dems.
Exactly. The Dems are virtually a non-issue unless Ron Paul gets the Republican nomination.

JosephTheLibertarian
09-26-2007, 05:24 PM
could a candidate run for both the dem and pub nomination at the same time? lol

Ron Paul Fan
09-26-2007, 05:30 PM
Hey guys, some people on this forum would like us to stop using the word neo-con because it's very offensive to them. So instead, start using the word Big Government Former Democrat Preemptive War Republicans. That should help us gain the Big Government Former Democrat Preemptive War Republican vote. It may take a little longer to type, but we need to be aware of their feelings too. Also, Ron Paul should stop using the n word too. We are in direct competition with them, but we also need them to win if that makes any sense. Please see the NRA says they invited Ron Paul thread for more information. Thank you for your cooperation and let's work together to bring down the Big Government Former Democrat Preemptive War Republicans.

klamath
09-26-2007, 05:31 PM
When the economy starts going sour and the sheep start to feel the pain, they look towards socialism for help. On top of the fact you had a president who decided to cut taxes for the rich and fight a war at the same time. this is one of the main reasons the democrats have the momentum (it goes beyond the war itself) here and will be a major obstacle for Ron Paul and any republican for that matter. His no tax, shrink government (government is such a huge percentage of our economy now so people with government jobs will run from ron paul out of fear), and no socialism, shrink welfare, etc. will be a tough sell right now. Especially to the baby boom generation who is looking to retire soon with little to no savings.


You are right in your assessment of the Republicans reign of power in the last 6 years.
An ad showing how Hillary and crew are going to pass an admitted 100 billion dollar health care program that will no doubt balloon to 300 or 400 billion and at the same time keep the war going, expand the military and bring the war to other countries would be really effective.
Now tack on a global warming tax and a huge tax increase to pay for this and the economy will really take a dump. You young people had better be afraid. Wait until they jack up the payroll tax to pay the retirement of the baby boomers.

JosephTheLibertarian
09-26-2007, 05:32 PM
Hey guys, some people on this forum would like us to stop using the word neo-con because it's very offensive to them. So instead, start using the word Big Government Former Democrat Preemptive War Republicans. That should help us gain the Big Government Former Democrat Preemptive War Republican vote. It may take a little longer to type, but we need to be aware of their feelings too. Also, Ron Paul should stop using the n word too. We are in direct competition with them, but we also need them to win if that makes any sense. Please see the NRA says they invited Ron Paul thread for more information. Thank you for your cooperation and let's work together to bring down the Big Government Former Democrat Preemptive War Republicans.

how about dixiecrat? ;)

klamath
09-26-2007, 05:38 PM
Hey guys, some people on this forum would like us to stop using the word neo-con because it's very offensive to them. So instead, start using the word Big Government Former Democrat Preemptive War Republicans. That should help us gain the Big Government Former Democrat Preemptive War Republican vote. It may take a little longer to type, but we need to be aware of their feelings too. Also, Ron Paul should stop using the n word too. We are in direct competition with them, but we also need them to win if that makes any sense. Please see the NRA says they invited Ron Paul thread for more information. Thank you for your cooperation and let's work together to bring down the Big Government Former Democrat Preemptive War Republicans.

You are flat out missing my point. No one is upset you use the word Neocon. They deserve the disrespect. I would like to see some attacks against the leading democrats as well.