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View Full Version : The birth certificate thing




BillyDkid
08-02-2009, 11:25 AM
Okay, I don't really have an opinion about whether or not Obama was born in the US or not, but am I alone in seeing this issue as a rather pointless distraction that tends to discredit the liberty movement in the eyes of the rest of America? Yes, I understand the principle of the rule of law and obeying the Constitution, but it seems to me this is an issue we can only lose on. The power elite will always keep in power who they want to be in power and there is little we can do about that in general.

We already know that the government obeys or does not obey the law of the land as it suites them - we know this. It seems to me this birth certificate issue can do nothing except derail progress toward liberty - what tiny, miniscule amount of progress we have made in terms of waking other Americans to issues like the Fed and the police state and the military industrial complex and crony capitalism and the rest. And you know that the MSM is loving that some of us have latched on to this marginal issue - and it is a marginal issue so long as the media treats it as one, which they will.

We all know that the actual truth of things matters not at all in the scheme of things in America as it is right now and all of these issues - all of these conspiracy issue things which pop up in here relentlessly - do little except to give the media an excuse to marginalize us and make us look like kooks. I know for a fact that one of the strategies of those who oppose us and what we stand for - the principles all of us are supposedly fighting for - is to stir up the pot with whacko conspiracy crap in order to portray any of us who believe in the principles of liberty as marginal people. I'm not saying that the birther thing is necessarily off base. I am saying that it doesn't matter whether or not there is some basis for it. All that matters is that it is something the media can use to further paint us as a group of tin foil hatters to the rest of America - and you know whenever some among us latch onto one of these sorts of issues those who hate us, love it precisely because it is another excuse to make us look like a joke.

I think it is important for us to stick to issues that can actually help us make progress - though I am sure there are plants among the various loosely connected factions of the liberty movement who's intention is precisely to prevent us for gaining or maintaining traction. The birther issue like so many other issues which some are enamored of does nothing except give people like Bill Maher and Jon Stewart - both of whom I do not think are corrupt people, but are maybe blind to certain things, guys who could be largely on our side and certainly are on some issues - fodder for portraying anyone who opposes Obama's policies and socializism inspired views as a joke. This is the last sort of notoriety we need. We are fighting an uphill battle as it is and stuff like this just makes it all harder and could end up ruining any hope we have for progress toward liberty.

This is just my opinion and I certainly do not mean to insult anyone or their views, but I am certain I am not alone in these feelings.

Dr.3D
08-02-2009, 11:31 AM
Will you feel the same way if it is proven Obama was really born in Kenya?
If that were to happen, then it would be a credit to our cause.

nobody's_hero
08-02-2009, 11:37 AM
I too think that we'll have much more success with issues like the Federal Reserve, National Healthcare, and idiotic and blatantly unconsitutional programs like Cash-for-Clunkers as they are right out in the open and documented by thousands of pages of legislation. We already know that these programs are failures, and by speaking out on them now, when the shit hits the fan and they all cave in, the credibility of this movement will be reinforced a thousand-fold.

I don't like it anymore than the next guy, but let's face it: Obama isn't going to give in and show his birth certificate. The courts, which work for the government, aren't going to force him to do so. The Congress isn't going to make it happen either.

The best we can hope for is that one hundred years down the road, some investigative reporter puts together a documentary in which all things come to light about Obama's birthplace, but for now, let's focus on the easy arguments.

BillyDkid
08-02-2009, 11:38 AM
Will you feel the same way if it is proven Obama was really born in Kenya?
If that were to happen, then it would be a credit to our cause.Well, yeah, it were proven that Obama was born in Kenya - then the birthers would be right and all the media would be wrong. How likely do you think that is to happen? Do you really think the government does not have the resources and power to demonstrate that Obama was born in Hawaii decisively if they want to? Is there any deception the government is not capable of engaging in if they choose to? Do you really not believe this is an losing issue for us that can only be used to discredit us and make us look like fools? Would you really rather be right than make progress toward liberty - and every issue that serves to portray us as marginal in the eyes of the rest of America is nothing but a step backward. There is no way we can ever win or even hope to make progress without reaching those Americans who can be reached and thing like this just makes it more difficult to reach the silent majority. Maybe I am just and idiot, but I think we should stick to issue we can win on or at least have some hope of winning on.

dannno
08-02-2009, 12:13 PM
Obama is being blackmailed with this issue if it is true. We need to expose the system, not just Obama.. but the BC may potentially help us do just that.

qh4dotcom
08-02-2009, 01:02 PM
Do you think liberty is going to make a comeback with the Democrats in charge?

If proven true, this birther issue would become a much bigger scandal than Watergate...the Democrats would go down next election worse than the Republicans went down last year...I don't think they would ever recover...and it would also make it easier for a 3rd party to rise.

Also all the damage Obama has signed into law would become invalid...the stimulus would go away, same for future nationalized healthcare, future cap & trade, etc....there's no faster way to reverse all of that.

MyLibertyStuff
08-02-2009, 01:24 PM
Okay, I don't really have an opinion about whether or not Obama was born in the US or not, but am I alone in seeing this issue as a rather pointless distraction that tends to discredit the liberty movement in the eyes of the rest of America? Yes, I understand the principle of the rule of law and obeying the Constitution, but it seems to me this is an issue we can only lose on. The power elite will always keep in power who they want to be in power and there is little we can do about that in general.

We already know that the government obeys or does not obey the law of the land as it suites them - we know this. It seems to me this birth certificate issue can do nothing except derail progress toward liberty - what tiny, miniscule amount of progress we have made in terms of waking other Americans to issues like the Fed and the police state and the military industrial complex and crony capitalism and the rest. And you know that the MSM is loving that some of us have latched on to this marginal issue - and it is a marginal issue so long as the media treats it as one, which they will.

We all know that the actual truth of things matters not at all in the scheme of things in America as it is right now and all of these issues - all of these conspiracy issue things which pop up in here relentlessly - do little except to give the media an excuse to marginalize us and make us look like kooks. I know for a fact that one of the strategies of those who oppose us and what we stand for - the principles all of us are supposedly fighting for - is to stir up the pot with whacko conspiracy crap in order to portray any of us who believe in the principles of liberty as marginal people. I'm not saying that the birther thing is necessarily off base. I am saying that it doesn't matter whether or not there is some basis for it. All that matters is that it is something the media can use to further paint us as a group of tin foil hatters to the rest of America - and you know whenever some among us latch onto one of these sorts of issues those who hate us, love it precisely because it is another excuse to make us look like a joke.

I think it is important for us to stick to issues that can actually help us make progress - though I am sure there are plants among the various loosely connected factions of the liberty movement who's intention is precisely to prevent us for gaining or maintaining traction. The birther issue like so many other issues which some are enamored of does nothing except give people like Bill Maher and Jon Stewart - both of whom I do not think are corrupt people, but are maybe blind to certain things, guys who could be largely on our side and certainly are on some issues - fodder for portraying anyone who opposes Obama's policies and socializism inspired views as a joke. This is the last sort of notoriety we need. We are fighting an uphill battle as it is and stuff like this just makes it all harder and could end up ruining any hope we have for progress toward liberty.

This is just my opinion and I certainly do not mean to insult anyone or their views, but I am certain I am not alone in these feelings.

I agree...but I only read the first sentence. It is pretty irrelevant in our fight against the "establishment". Obama, Biden, Bush, Clinton...its all the same fight.

iddo
08-02-2009, 01:47 PM
Noam Chomsky thinks the same way about 9/11 and JFK:

Even if [9/11 conspiracy theories] were true, which is extremely unlikely, who cares? It doesn't have any significance. It's a little bit like the huge energy that's put out on trying to figure out who killed John F. Kennedy. Who knows? And who cares? Plenty of people get killed all the time, why does it matter that one of them happened to be John F. Kennedy? If there was some reason to believe that there was a high level conspiracy, it might be interesting. But the evidence against that is just overwhelming. And after that, if it happened to be a jealous husband, or the mafia, or someone else, what difference does it make? It's just taking energy away from serious issues onto ones that don't matter.
He also likes to quote a CIA memo that encourages JFK conspiracy theories to keep people busy with marginal issues.

sevin
08-02-2009, 01:57 PM
Will you feel the same way if it is proven Obama was really born in Kenya?
If that were to happen, then it would be a credit to our cause.

http://data.tumblr.com/Ahe5vVuQIeynste9x9q9hWGCo1_400.jpg

You're missing the point. Did you even read the OP?


Obama is being blackmailed with this issue if it is true.

You keep saying this, but you offer no evidence to suggest it is true.


Also all the damage Obama has signed into law would become invalid...the stimulus would go away, same for future nationalized healthcare, future cap & trade, etc....there's no faster way to reverse all of that.

You're living in a dream world.