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Reason
08-01-2009, 10:49 PM
GOD FORGIVE ME FOR SENDING OUR TROOPS TO IRAQ! Congressman Walter Jones

YouTube - GOD FORGIVE ME FOR SENDING OUR TROOPS TO IRAQ! Congressman Walter Jones (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fE6aq8u4ybk)

Vessol
08-02-2009, 12:27 AM
How they sing a different tune these days :rolleyes:

PlzPeopleWakeUp
08-02-2009, 12:29 AM
I love Big Brother.

free.alive
08-02-2009, 12:39 AM
Walter Jones is one of Ron Paul's biggest allies on the Hill.

emazur
08-02-2009, 12:48 AM
YouTube - Washington Watch - March 2009- Rep. Jones interviews Ron Paul (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJlalxi9HMM)
YouTube - 5/19/09 Walter Jones discusses Ron Paul's HR1207 on Fox Business (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdNG8FcEDmk&feature=PlayList&p=1A9001C5E5DCB54D&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=49)

dgr
08-02-2009, 12:51 AM
Let me be the first to defend Congresman Walter Jones. In 2007, during the iraq war funding hearings( on C-span) he was in tears as he questioned the war. He had been opposed to it for years, and for his loyality to the troops he was targareted not by the democrats, but by the republicians in his re election campaign, for being disloyal to the GOP. he and Ron paul have been co sponsors of nume rous bill in the House, that opposed the Bush adgenda.

It is only too bad that the former president and vice president do not share the same feelings.
because it was their war for profit, and they lied to everyone to accomplish it

Theocrat
08-02-2009, 01:01 AM
That is the kind of sentiment we need to see more of in Congress. It is a tragedy that so many men and women are sent to fight and die in a war which really has nothing to do with defending our Constitution. May more congressmen plead with God to forgive their decision in feeding our troops to unnecessary wars.

hamilton1049
08-02-2009, 08:52 AM
Walter B Jones jr. has been a staunch supporter and good friend of Ron Paul's for many years and I'm damned proud to say he represents our district in NC. I never accepted his support for the wars but knew in my heart that he deeply cared about the military in his district.

He has never viewed us as just a voting block, or a pawn in Washington's war for profit games, but as human beings with families and lives of our own. He has been tireless in supporting us after our time in service and making sure are we not just cast aside and forgotten after we have served.

Walter B Jones is not the most eloquent politician in DC, but he is sincere and I cannot put him second to Ron Paul. I would not be disappointed to see him as Ron Paul's choice for VP.

pacelli
08-02-2009, 09:00 AM
August 01, 2009
YES! Youtube has suspended my CSPANJunkie & VotersThink accounts :(

Yikes!

Liberty Star
08-02-2009, 09:01 AM
Who had said that God was rewarding us with current economic state , election of Obama and downfall of pro elective war evangelicals, was it Pastor John Haqgee?

We have to pray that God would not let prayers of Iraqi civilians go too far and get us out of this mess soon. Not everyone supported Iraqi freedom bloodshed and collective punishment seems to be way overdone. Perhaps we can hold a large national mass to seek His mercy and forgiveness for base blood, oil and revenge lusts that led to bloodshed of people of Iraqi race. When Oil prices shot to sky couple of years ago, there were some prayers at the pump sessions and surprisngly prices started dropping soon after that. It however may be too much to ask for current regime to provide leadership on national prayer, apparently Obama still had not picked his Church in Washington burnt from his Rev Wright Church association.

We should also hope and pray that God is not getting ready enhanced interrogation techniques for those who supported elective violenece against Iraqi civilians, current torture trechniques would pale compared to what God is capable of using. Lets pray for His mercy for all.

itshappening
08-02-2009, 09:05 AM
what the hell? CSPANjunkie got done over by youtube? why?

very sad, those videos had lots of hits.

Working Poor
08-02-2009, 09:17 AM
what the hell? CSPANjunkie got done over by youtube? why?

very sad, those videos had lots of hits.

sad yes, but this is not a cspanjunkie post.

I am glad this congressman stands with RP I hope the real Christians in congress do stand together.

Ron Paul is a real Christian.

Reason
08-02-2009, 09:19 AM
sad yes, but this is not a cspanjunkie post.

I am glad this congressman stands with RP I hope the real Christians in congress do stand together.

Ron Paul is a real Christian.

Yes actually it is a cspanjunkie post.

pacelli
08-02-2009, 09:45 AM
sad yes, but this is not a cspanjunkie post.

I am glad this congressman stands with RP I hope the real Christians in congress do stand together.

Ron Paul is a real Christian.

Actually, this post wouldn't have been possible without cspanjunkie. The link on the video is cspanjunkie's website. The source of the video is cspanjunkie.

RevolutionSD
08-02-2009, 09:45 AM
This is ridiculous. What do you believers think? That there is a god that listens to prayers? So why then does he listen to some prayers and not others? Are the Iraqi children who are praying for their lives and then get blown up by a bomb not praying hard enough, or the right way? Or are they praying to the wrong god??? Newsflash, there is no god and people like Walter Jones who voted for the war are simply sick human beings.

Reason
08-02-2009, 09:47 AM
This is ridiculous. What do you believers think? That there is a god that listens to prayers? So why then does he listen to some prayers and not others? Are the Iraqi children who are praying for their lives and then get blown up by a bomb not praying hard enough, or the right way? Or are they praying to the wrong god??? Newsflash, there is no god and people like Walter Jones who voted for the war are simply sick human beings.

:cool:

pacelli
08-02-2009, 09:52 AM
This is ridiculous. What do you believers think? That there is a god that listens to prayers? So why then does he listen to some prayers and not others? Are the Iraqi children who are praying for their lives and then get blown up by a bomb not praying hard enough, or the right way? Or are they praying to the wrong god??? Newsflash, there is no god and people like Walter Jones who voted for the war are simply sick human beings.

If someone gave you the finger, would you do them a favor?

RevolutionSD
08-02-2009, 09:54 AM
If someone gave you the finger, would you do them a favor?

What? Who gave who the finger? :confused::confused:

Mini-Me
08-02-2009, 09:56 AM
This is ridiculous. What do you believers think? That there is a god that listens to prayers? So why then does he listen to some prayers and not others? Are the Iraqi children who are praying for their lives and then get blown up by a bomb not praying hard enough, or the right way? Or are they praying to the wrong god??? Newsflash, there is no god and people like Walter Jones who voted for the war are simply sick human beings.

Wow, I'm glad we're all managing not to make needless inflammatory posts about each others' beliefs. :rolleyes:

Seriously, give Walter Jones a bit of a break. He does deserve the heartache and crushing feeling of guilt he's going through now, but unlike most politicians, he is a decent enough human being to actually experience that and be genuinely affected by it. That doesn't affect my opinion of what he did, but it certainly affects my opinion of him as a person. Everyone makes mistakes in their life, and his have been enormous and costly to many people and families...but at least give him credit for owning up to that and having a conscience. Back at the end of 2002 and beginning of 2003, I supported the invasion too. Granted, I was an 18-year-old kid and I'd spent my whole life surrounded by neocon-worshippers, but still, I came around. Considering he's coming around in many ways too - albeit too late - I think it's a bit much to call him a "sick human being." He wasn't a monster, just grossly ill-informed and misled on both facts and principle, and he's paying for that now.

Liberty Star
08-02-2009, 10:03 AM
This is ridiculous. What do you believers think? That there is a god that listens to prayers? So why then does he listen to some prayers and not others? Are the Iraqi children who are praying for their lives and then get blown up by a bomb not praying hard enough, or the right way? Or are they praying to the wrong god??? Newsflash, there is no god and people like Walter Jones who voted for the war are simply sick human beings.

http://timesonline.typepad.com/faith/images/2007/08/08/bush_at_prayer_2

http://img.timeinc.net/time/daily/2007/0708/hillary_graham_0806.jpg


Since both Bush and Hillary supported Iraqi invasion, are you implying they were both nlot healthy human beings?


I would suggest that Bush may have been overly religious minded to justify Iraqi violence but Hillary doesn't seems like a religious zealot , she may have supported Iraqi bloodshed for racism reasons if one is to speculate.. but only God knows what's in their hearts for sure.

Working Poor
08-02-2009, 10:06 AM
Actually, this post wouldn't have been possible without cspanjunkie. The link on the video is cspanjunkie's website. The source of the video is cspanjunkie.

I stand corrected...:o

RevolutionSD
08-02-2009, 10:18 AM
Wow, I'm glad we're all managing not to make needless inflammatory posts about each others' beliefs. :rolleyes:

Seriously, give Walter Jones a bit of a break. He does deserve the heartache and crushing feeling of guilt he's going through now, but unlike most politicians, he is a decent enough human being to actually experience that and be genuinely affected by it. That doesn't affect my opinion of what he did, but it certainly affects my opinion of him as a person. Everyone makes mistakes in their life, and his have been enormous and costly to many people and families...but at least give him credit for owning up to that and having a conscience. Back at the end of 2002 and beginning of 2003, I supported the invasion too. Granted, I was an 18-year-old kid and I'd spent my whole life surrounded by neocon-worshippers, but still, I came around. Considering he's coming around in many ways too - albeit too late - I think it's a bit much to call him a "sick human being." He wasn't a monster, just grossly ill-informed and misled on both facts and principle, and he's paying for that now.

Call my post "inflammatory" all you want, but please show me where I am wrong?

Why should I give Walter Jones a break?
He makes his living as a parasite, living off of others' incomes, then sends kids off to war to kill and be killed. This is not a moral man. He's not even calling for an end to the wars now! He simply wants a "strategy". How many more will die while political scum like Jones beg the higher up "leaders" to figure it out? If he had a shred of decency he would be shouting from the rooftops to bring them home immediately.

Mini-Me
08-02-2009, 10:43 AM
Call my post "inflammatory" all you want, but please show me where I am wrong?
This isn't about whether you're right or wrong; the point is that purposely trying to turn this thread into yet another religious pissing match is needlessly divisive and trollish.



Why should I give Walter Jones a break?
He makes his living as a parasite, living off of others' incomes, then sends kids off to war to kill and be killed. This is not a moral man. He's not even calling for an end to the wars now! He simply wants a "strategy". How many more will die while political scum like Jones beg the higher up "leaders" to figure it out? If he had a shred of decency he would be shouting from the rooftops to bring them home immediately.
Have you been a shining angel an-cap your entire life or something? Is everything completely black and white to you with no colors or shades of gray in between? Are you seriously going to condemn him with the same fervor that you would condemn some psychopath who consciously does this all for the lulz and personal gain, without a care in the world for how his actions affect others? I'm not saying Walter Jones is perfect or even admirable. He still has his delusions, and he's still confused and not making the correct decision, but he's moving in the right direction. He's already shown that he has more decency than most of the other assholes on the hill, and that constitutes at least a shred in my eyes.

RevolutionSD
08-02-2009, 10:51 AM
This isn't about whether you're right or wrong; the point is that purposely trying to turn this thread into yet another religious pissing match is needlessly divisive and trollish.

I didn't post the video. The guy was talking about GOD, and how he wants GOD to bless our troops, blah blah blah. You're trying to tell me I shouldn't react to that? Why don't you stick to the content of my post rather than attacking me? I didn't create a pissing match, you are the one that is trying to do that. Personal attacks are what a pissing match is all about.



Have you been a shining angel an-cap your entire life or something?

Did I ever claim anything like this? Stop with the ad-hominems please and address the content of my post instead.


Is everything completely black and white to you with no colors or shades of gray in between? Are you seriously going to condemn him with the same fervor that you would condemn some psychopath who consciously does this all for the lulz and personal gain, without a care in the world for how his actions affect others? I'm not saying Walter Jones is perfect or even admirable. He still has his delusions, and he's still confused and not making the correct decision, but he's moving in the right direction. He's already shown that he has more decency than most of the other assholes on the hill, and that constitutes at least a shred in my eyes.

Again, if he was calling for an end to the war, I would agree with you. But he is not. His speech was purely political, appealing to Christians as well as neocon war supporters and the M-I complex. All he is saying is that "we need a plan!". This isn't exactly an argument against war.

iddo
08-02-2009, 11:02 AM
I am glad this congressman stands with RP I hope the real Christians in congress do stand together.

Is Sam Brownback a real Christian?


Ron Paul: I strongly believe that there is a Christian doctrine of just war. [..] Christ came here for spiritual reasons, not secular war and boundaries and geography. And yet, we are now dedicating so much of our aggressive activity in the name of God, but God, He is the Prince of Peace. That is what I see from my God and through Christ. I vote for peace.
Sam Brownback: I vote for peace, too. But I also vote for the protection of life, and I vote for the strength of America, and I vote for our place in the world. This is a key country, and it's a country that is standing up to Islamic fascism, and it's a country that is standing up for the rights of individuals, and I think there is a just war that is going on in Iraq. (pdf source (http://www.valuesvoterdebate.com/downloads/transcript.pdf))

Liberty Star
08-02-2009, 11:07 AM
Is Sam Brownback a real Christian?

No real Christian advocated elective bloodshed in Iraq justified using bogus claims and lies.

Did Sam support Iraqi invasion or not?

That answer should answer your question I believe.

Sandman33
08-02-2009, 11:14 AM
I didn't post the video. The guy was talking about GOD, and how he wants GOD to bless our troops, blah blah blah. You're trying to tell me I shouldn't react to that? Why don't you stick to the content of my post rather than attacking me? I didn't create a pissing match, you are the one that is trying to do that. Personal attacks are what a pissing match is all about.




Did I ever claim anything like this? Stop with the ad-hominems please and address the content of my post instead.



Again, if he was calling for an end to the war, I would agree with you. But he is not. His speech was purely political, appealing to Christians as well as neocon war supporters and the M-I complex. All he is saying is that "we need a plan!". This isn't exactly an argument against war.

Why must you attack GOD? Or men that choose to believe in him. So he made a MISTAKE but at least he's got the balls to publicly admit it. And he's not just asking for an exit strategy...he's asking for a REASON for even being there!

You can go on your little rant against God while taking all of his gifts for granted, you had just better be DAMNED sure that you're right about it, and that when you die absolutely nothing happens but the lights go out.....actually, that's all you deserve.

iddo
08-02-2009, 11:14 AM
Again, if he was calling for an end to the war, I would agree with you.

He does call for an end to the war and noninterventionist foreign policy.
Why don't you watch some of the other links posted in this thread, such as his interview with Ron Paul, instead of arriving to false conclusions from this single speech?
And why don't you pick a fight with the majority of congress members who voted for war and are unapologetic about it, instead of attacking one (out of very few) who is honest?

Mini-Me
08-02-2009, 11:44 AM
I didn't post the video. The guy was talking about GOD, and how he wants GOD to bless our troops, blah blah blah. You're trying to tell me I shouldn't react to that? Why don't you stick to the content of my post rather than attacking me? I didn't create a pissing match, you are the one that is trying to do that. Personal attacks are what a pissing match is all about.

The video and thread are about the man's guilt. His religious beliefs are merely incidental, yet you're using their mere mention as another excuse to attack Christianity and theism as a whole. Before your insanely inflammatory post, the thread had no prior reason to turn into yet another one of the religious "debates" that have been dividing us into hostile camps (and hopefully it won't). In other words, I'm wondering why you seemed so intent on starting a new round of highly charged infighting here.

Personally, I don't care if people believe in the goddamn underpants gnomes or invisible flying pink unicorns, as long as they're not forcing me to agree with them. Unfortunately, the more intolerant "nonbelievers" seem hellbent on fueling the persecution complex some Christians have, which isn't exactly making the rest of our lives any easier.



Did I ever claim anything like this? Stop with the ad-hominems please and address the content of my post instead.
My point was to get you to stop and think about how self-righteous it is to mercilessly condemn someone else without hesitation or pity just because he's slower to "get it" than you. If your judgment of the man were more measured and nuanced, I wouldn't have found it so absurd.



Again, if he was calling for an end to the war, I would agree with you. But he is not. His speech was purely political, appealing to Christians as well as neocon war supporters and the M-I complex. All he is saying is that "we need a plan!". This isn't exactly an argument against war.

See iddo's post above mine.

RevolutionSD
08-02-2009, 12:37 PM
Why must you attack GOD? Or men that choose to believe in him. So he made a MISTAKE but at least he's got the balls to publicly admit it. And he's not just asking for an exit strategy...he's asking for a REASON for even being there!

You can go on your little rant against God while taking all of his gifts for granted, you had just better be DAMNED sure that you're right about it, and that when you die absolutely nothing happens but the lights go out.....actually, that's all you deserve.

I'm not against God, I simply do not believe he exists. Show me proof to the contrary and we can have a discussion.

Sandman33
08-02-2009, 01:59 PM
I'm not against God, I simply do not believe he exists. Show me proof to the contrary and we can have a discussion.

Show me proof he doesnt and we can have a discussion.

RevolutionSD
08-02-2009, 07:58 PM
Show me proof he doesnt and we can have a discussion.

How is the onus on me to proof a negative?

If I said martians just landed in my backyard, and told you to prove that they didn't, would I then be right about the martians?

Reason
08-03-2009, 09:46 AM
bump

cayton
08-03-2009, 02:45 PM
Despite the trolling from RevolutionSD, I'm quite happy to have Walter Jones as my congressman. I voted against him in 04, but in 08 he became the first republican or democratic candidate for federal or major state office that I voted for, ever.

Like RP, most of the GOP "insiders" do not like him and continuously try to primary him... last election, they backed the leader of a county GOP office just to get him out of office. No dice.

Jones is far from perfect, but he's easily among the top 10 in congress in my opinion. Fiscally he is very conservative, and the more time goes on the more he seems to be imitating the message of Ron Paul. He changed his opinion on the war before it became fashionable to do so. When the original bailouts (with bush in office) were being discussed, I faxed them a signed letter stating I would never vote for him under any circumstances if he signed on. I called his office as well, and his staff told me that he had told them to let everyone know that he would not support any bailouts in any form. He stuck to that. Also, he has continuously opposed further restrictions and regulation on boating, which is a big issue around here.

I hate to even dignify most of what "RevolutionSD" is saying with a response, but I will say that not everyone pops out of the womb wrapped in a flag and carrying a constitution. It takes many people a long time to form permanent ideas on political opinion, and Jones certainly seems to be on the right path. Not perfect, obviously, but he's getting better instead of getting worse. The fact that the GOP brass want him out when they used to support him is nothing but a positive indicator for me.