Torture

[MyLibertyStuff]

I couldnt find any threads on torture by searching, although I only went through 2 pages.

What is everyones opinion on torture, or enhanced interrogation techniques? Anyone got any good essays to enhance their position? I'd like to read them.

I am against torture, for the record :)

[Sandman33]

I'm for torture. But only if it's used on politicians.

[lynnf]

I couldnt find any threads on torture by searching, although I only went through 2 pages.

What is everyones opinion on torture, or enhanced interrogation techniques? Anyone got any good essays to enhance their position? I'd like to read them.

I am against torture, for the record :)


not for any reason -- no essay needed:

"Protected persons are entitled, in all circumstances, to respect for their persons, their honour, their family rights, their religious convictions and practices, and their manners and customs. They shall at all times be humanely treated, and shall be protected especially against all acts of violence or threats thereof and against insults and public curiosity. Women shall be especially protected against any attack on their honour, in particular against rape, enforced prostitution, or any form of indecent assault. Without prejudice to the provisions relating to their state of health, age and sex, all protected persons shall be treated with the same consideration by the Party to the conflict in whose power they are, without any adverse distinction based, in particular, on race, religion or political opinion. However, the Parties to the conflict may take such measures of control and security in regard to protected persons as may be necessary as a result of the war. ”

—- Article 27, Fourth Geneva Convention

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Conventions


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lynn

[cradle2graveconservative]

Edit

[MyLibertyStuff]

not for any reason -- no essay needed:

"Protected persons are entitled, in all circumstances, to respect for their persons, their honour, their family rights, their religious convictions and practices, and their manners and customs. They shall at all times be humanely treated, and shall be protected especially against all acts of violence or threats thereof and against insults and public curiosity. Women shall be especially protected against any attack on their honour, in particular against rape, enforced prostitution, or any form of indecent assault. Without prejudice to the provisions relating to their state of health, age and sex, all protected persons shall be treated with the same consideration by the Party to the conflict in whose power they are, without any adverse distinction based, in particular, on race, religion or political opinion. However, the Parties to the conflict may take such measures of control and security in regard to protected persons as may be necessary as a result of the war. ”

—- Article 27, Fourth Geneva Convention

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Conventions


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lynn

I meant on like a fundamental level, not by the laws and treaties. But I would guess youre also against on a fundamental level as well.


I can think of a few people for whom torture would be appropriate. Not that they have secrets we want or anything, they just need some good 'ol torturing.

I dont know if anyone we torture has secrets we want :rolleyes:

[Freedom 4 all]

I can think of a few people for whom torture would be appropriate. Not that they have secrets we want or anything, they just need some good 'ol torturing.

I'd like a few minutes alone with the top dogs of the fed to see whether it really is a secret cabal or just a bunch of guys who don't get how economics work.

[Optatron]

Anybody disagree that torture is better than murder?

[Kludge]

Depends on the torture. What's your definition?

[brandon]

I'm not totally against torture. I'm against the government doing it in my name, because I don't trust the government.

I personally might torture someone though, given extreme circumstances.

[Optatron]

Depends on the torture. What's your definition?

good question, can you give me an example of torture ever worse than murder?

[brandon]

I'd like a few minutes alone with the top dogs of the fed to see whether it really is a secret cabal or just a bunch of guys who don't get how economics work.

If I met God and was a allowed to ask only one question, this would be the question.

[Optatron]

I'm not totally against torture. I'm against the government doing it in my name, because I don't trust the government.

I personally might torture someone though, given extreme circumstances.

good. then it's unfair to say government officials dont have extreme circumstances to deal with.

[Kludge]

good question, can you give me an example of torture ever worse than murder?

Having caustic acid being poured on you, then having your eyes spooned out, being skull-fucked, and then going into a coma until just prior to death?

[Optatron]

Having caustic acid being poured on you, then having your eyes spooned out, being skull-fucked, and then going into a coma until just prior to death?

eventually you die, isn't what I meant.

but I guess that's the best you can think of.

[Mini-Me]

good. then it's unfair to say government officials dont have extreme circumstances to deal with.

Well, the difference is that if torture is institutionalized, government agents basically get a blank check to torture whoever they want, whenever they want, probably in secret, and without any accountability. Man, I bet that job would attract some real sweethearts, right? :rolleyes: "Extreme circumstances" could include wanting to find out if a fifth grader cheated on a test, and we'd never know. When torture is institutionalized, the torturers are essentially given full discretion and become immune to consequences, and that incentivizes lowering the bar for "extreme circumstances."

I'd MUCH rather that someone (government agent or private citizen) illegally tortured someone else on occasion for reasons he personally felt were justified, knowing full well that he could personally lose everything for doing what he did. Then he can at least be put on trial and a jury can determine whether such circumstances were truly extreme enough to give him a pass. Having to face full accountability like that - for every single incident - would incentivize people to stick to a really, really fucking good definition of "extreme circumstances."

[Mini-Me]

eventually you die, isn't what I meant.

but I guess that's the best you can think of.

I'd give a better example, but I don't want to give anyone any ideas about what to do to us if we ever end up in concentration camps or something. :eek:

[Optatron]

I'd give a better example, but I don't want to give anyone any ideas about what to do to us if we ever end up in concentration camps or something. :eek:

good idea!

I'm sure Kludge has better ones he's keeping to himself too.

[Freedom 4 all]

Provided no permanent injury is caused as a result, I can't see any situation in which torture would be worse than murder.

[Objectivist]

Does torture include the feeling a bullet makes as it burns your insides after a machine gun rips thru your flesh on the field of battle? How about shrapnel from a hand grenade?

[Optatron]

Provided no permanent injury is caused as a result, I can't see any situation in which torture would be worse than murder.

that's originally what I meant.

[Optatron]

Does torture include the feeling a bullet makes as it burns your insides after a machine gun rips thru your flesh on the field of battle? How about shrapnel from a hand grenade?

I learned this from the first season of 24

Not sure if it's actually used, but Jack said you can stick a towel in a person's mouth and let them swallow it, leaving some sticking out, so it's partially in his stomach, and still able to be pulled out.

let him digest the towel partially and pull it out, I mean, OUCH.

[MyLibertyStuff]

Well, the difference is that if torture is institutionalized, government agents basically get a blank check to torture whoever they want, whenever they want, probably in secret, and without any accountability. Man, I bet that job would attract some real sweethearts, right? :rolleyes: "Extreme circumstances" could include wanting to find out if a fifth grader cheated on a test, and we'd never know. When torture is institutionalized, the torturers are essentially given full discretion and become immune to consequences, and that incentivizes lowering the bar for "extreme circumstances."

I'd MUCH rather that someone (government agent or private citizen) illegally tortured someone else on occasion for reasons he personally felt were justified, knowing full well that he could personally lose everything for doing what he did. Then he can at least be put on trial and a jury can determine whether such circumstances were truly extreme enough to give him a pass. Having to face full accountability like that - for every single incident - would incentivize people to stick to a really, really fucking good definition of "extreme circumstances."

I would much rather want that as well, but still dont want any torture ha.


I'd give a better example, but I don't want to give anyone any ideas about what to do to us if we ever end up in concentration camps or something. :eek:

Shouldnt be too long now :(

[Brian4Liberty]

If you hate torturers, why would you want to become one?

[Vessol]

I'm for torture. But only if it's used on politicians.

i see wut u did thar

[free.alive]

I'm for torture. But only if it's used on politicians.



Hey Sandman,

How's the crew back at 935 PA Ave.? Any good leads tonight?

[free.alive]

I'm opposed to torture. There's no reason to qualify that statement with anything.

[Objectivist]

I learned this from the first season of 24

Not sure if it's actually used, but Jack said you can stick a towel in a person's mouth and let them swallow it, leaving some sticking out, so it's partially in his stomach, and still able to be pulled out.

let him digest the towel partially and pull it out, I mean, OUCH.

Is this your answer to the question that wasn't directed to you? Now go grab the curling iron and stick it..... turn it on.

[KCIndy]

I've posed this question on these forums before...

The debate of "to torture or not to torture" always seems to be predicated on the belief that there is no other effective method of getting information from someone. The argument always starts with, "...say you have a guy who knows where a bomb is planted and you only have 12 hours to make him talk...."

So... as I've asked many times before... DOES ANYONE THINK THE U.S. GOVERNMENT DOES *NOT* HAVE AN EFFECTIVE TRUTH DRUG THAT COULD BE ADMINISTERED IN A CASE LIKE THIS???

[BillyDkid]

Personally, I think we should torture everybody. Every man woman and child on earth. That way there's a pretty good chance that one of the people we torture will have some useful information that will keep us safe from turrrrists.

[FindLiberty]

Personally, I think we should torture everybody. Every man woman and child on earth. That way there's a pretty good chance that one of the people we torture will have some useful information that will keep us safe from turrrrists.

Yes, safety for all, especially the children, but a lot of the information collected might just be gibberish made up to stop the torture (of innocents)... so can those losses be made up "in volume" if we just torture everybody again and again?

Yes, that should work out nicely. Start filling buckets with water...

[tremendoustie]

Where's the option for, "There is no right reason for torture".

[Reason]

How bout I am against it because it doesn't work...

The person being tortured will say ANYTHING to get the torture to stop.

[Danke]

If you are worried about the unemployment numbers now, just see what would happen if we ended torture. Think of the economy and what that would do to the children!