Student charged $675k payable to record industry for uploading music per court order

[Matt Collins]

SOURCE:
http://yro.slashdot.org/story/09/07/31/2236229/RIAA-Awarded-675000-In-Tenenbaum-Trial



"The jury awarded the record company plaintiffs $675,000 (http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/07/o-tenenbaum-riaa-wins-675000-or-22500-per-song.ars) in the Boston trial defended by Prof. Charles Nesson, SONY BMG Music Entertainment v. Tenenbaum (http://beckermanlegal.com/pdf/?file=/Documents.htm&s=SONY_v_Tenenbaum). I was not surprised, since exactly none of the central issues ever even came up (http://recordingindustryvspeople.blogspot.com/2009/07/have-any-of-actual-issues-been-dealt.html) in this trial. The judge had instructed the jurors that Mr. Tenenbaum was liable (http://recordingindustryvspeople.blogspot.com/2009/07/court-reverses-itself-will-direct.html), and that their only task was to come up with a verdict that was more than $22,500 and less than $4.5 million. According to the judge, her reason for doing so was that, when on the stand, the defendant was asked if he admitted liability, and he said 'yes.' (http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/07/tenenbaum-takes-the-stand-i-used-p2p-and-lied-about-it.ars) The lawyers among you will know that that was a totally improper question, and that the Court should not have even allowed it, much less based her holding upon the answer to it."

[dannno]

He didn't profit off of these transactions, this doesn't make any sense.

Not only that, all he did was copy 1s and zeros on his computer and transfer them to another.. didn't steal a dime from anybody.

[RM918]

People have been punished less for murder.

[free.alive]

Everyone -

All branches of all government at all levels are waging all out war on your freedom, your family, your health, and your life.

We have arbitrary government collaborating willfully with the most moneyed and powerful special interests to wrest power from where it is diffuse among the people, centralizing it in the state and the various cartels which cooperate in the shakedown.

Oh, you knew that already...

[Matt Collins]

He didn't profit off of these transactions, this doesn't make any sense.

Not only that, all he did was copy 1s and zeros on his computer and transfer them to another.. didn't steal a dime from anybody.Exactly. But it is called statutory infringement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statutory_damages_for_copyright_infringement).

[Björn]

Ron Paul and the Campaign for Liberty need to start pounding the table on copyright reform. We could really win some people over.

[Scofield]

How is downloading music off the internet any different than lending your friend your CD?

Is it illegal to lend your friend your Radiohead CD? If not, why is it illegal to give your Radiohead CD to some random guy on the internet?

[Matt Collins]

Ron Paul and the Campaign for Liberty need to start pounding the table on copyright reform. We could really win some people over.
http://www.eff.org

[Matt Collins]

How is downloading music off the internet any different than lending your friend your CD?He was fined for uploading/distributing, not downloading.


Is it illegal to lend your friend your Radiohead CD? If not, why is it illegal to give your Radiohead CD to some random guy on the internet?Making an unauthorized copy is not the same thing as lending your single copy to your friend.

[eduardo89]

These fines are completely ridiculous...how is that kid supposed to ever pay this?

[South Park Fan]

This just emphasizes why we need to get rid of copyright laws.

[satchelmcqueen]

they should have made him pay record store price for the songs he uploaded. seems fair to me IF they are going to push this crap. $600k+ seems like a massive profit for them.

[satchelmcqueen]

These fines are completely ridiculous...how is that kid supposed to ever pay this?

yep. his adult working life will be useless to him and anyone he is involved with financially.

[coyote_sprit]

This just emphasizes why we need to get rid of copyright laws.

I think Viacom(holder of SP copyright) would disagree and music companies are only hurting them selves more when they do this and making more people want to pirate.

[South Park Fan]

I think Viacom(holder of SP copyright) would disagree and music companies are only hurting them selves more when they do this and making more people want to pirate.

Clearly the creators of South Park don't like copyright:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Rock_Hard

[coyote_sprit]

Clearly the creators of South Park don't like copyright:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Rock_Hard

True but they don't own the copyright.:rolleyes:

[Matt Collins]

they should have made him pay record store price for the songs he uploaded. seems fair to me IF they are going to push this crap. $600k+ seems like a massive profit for them.
Well the music industry has a very good lobby in Congress thus the fines are so high.:mad:

[coyote_sprit]

Well the music industry has a very good lobby in Congress thus the fines are so high.:mad:

They keeping pissing on their consumer and they won't be able to afford a lawyer let alone a lobbyist.

[Lovecraftian4Paul]

Wow, what corporate trash. I wouldn't be surprised to learn these companies are getting government welfare somewhere along the line. I could understand an I-tunes or CD price as a fine, but hundreds of thousands for a couple albums is ridiculous.

I believe the sun is setting on the recording industry, though. CDs will be obsolete in a few decades, and good luck stopping pirating when all media goes totally digital. They know the game is almost up and just want to squeeze a little more out of their overpriced CDs from older folks and the easily frightened with stunts like this.

[coyote_sprit]

CD's are already pretty obsolete when you can get a 16gb SDHC for $28.

[Björn]

http://www.eff.org

The EFF isn't effective enough on it's own, in my opinion.

[coyote_sprit]

The EFF isn't effective enough on it's own, in my opinion.

They do a damn good job at breaking government encryption standards though.

[buffalokid777]

yep. his adult working life will be useless to him and anyone he is involved with financially.

This pretty much guarantees he won't have a working adult life, or at least 7 years til the debts are no longer collectable. One more person on the welfare dole.

[BillyDkid]

The concept of "intellectual property" is horse shit. Here you have a huge corporation using the power of the state to crush a little person. Government power will always serve the interests of the powerful - always. Even those programs austensibly contrived to help the powerless are designed in ways to be exploited by those with access to power. The record industry and the publishing industry are both dying industries. Thanks to the intellectual property laws they have been able to make billions of dollars and they feel they are entitled to ride that gravy train forever. The internet is changing all of that and there is nothing they can do to change that.

[ClayTrainor]

This is not an effective method of maintaining a profitable industry.

The internet and it's creative users need to be utilized by the music industry, NOT sued!

This is almost as pathetic as the GM bailouts.

[cindy25]

He was fined for uploading/distributing, not downloading.

Making an unauthorized copy is not the same thing as lending your single copy to your friend.

how is downloading any different than recording with a VHS or DVR?

[ChaosControl]

I hate these kind of b.s. things, especially these that get some excessive awards, its worse than frivolous malpractice suits. Makes me hate the record industry and makes me want to scam them as much as possible.

[Matt Collins]

The concept of "intellectual property" is horse shit. I agree. There is no property involved, only ideas.

[Matt Collins]

how is downloading any different than recording with a VHS or DVR?One is time shifting, and the other is not.

However downloading is not what the guy got pegged for - he got pegged for uploading.

[BlackTerrel]

I think Viacom(holder of SP copyright) would disagree and music companies are only hurting them selves more when they do this and making more people want to pirate.

I don't know. Rulings like this scare a lot of people from uploading music - fuck, next time I'll just pay the 99 cents.

[qh4dotcom]

These fines are completely ridiculous...how is that kid supposed to ever pay this?

Through a settlement for less money :)

The kid can also leave the country and no one will be chasing him for the money.

[RonPaulFanInGA]

The concept of "intellectual property" is horse shit.

It is only to those who want to be the takers.

[Scofield]

The kid can also leave the country and no one will be chasing him for the money.

Yeah, if I am this kid, my life in America has come to an end.

Onto Europe. Ireland looks like a nice country to live in, or maybe Italy.

[silverhawks]

It's a real shame that none of the Founding Fathers never wrote anything about intellectual property, isn't it?


"If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea, which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession of everyone, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it.

Its peculiar character, too, is that no one possesses the less, because every other possesses the whole of it. He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me.

That ideas should freely spread from one to another over the globe, for the moral and mutual instruction of man, and improvement of his condition, seems to have been peculiarly and benevolently designed by nature, when she made them, like fire, expansible over all space, without lessening their density at any point, and like the air in which we breathe, move, and have our physical being, incapable of confinement or exclusive appropriation. Inventions then cannot, in nature, be a subject of property."

- Thomas Jefferson

[free.alive]

I'd be out. No way I'd pay that, or serve time for not paying it. There's always a black market somewhere...

[free.alive]

Originally Posted by BillyDkid View Post
The concept of "intellectual property" is horse shit.

It is only to those who want to be the takers.


Remember all those mixed tapes you used to make in grade school from recording stuff off the radio (for you who are 25 and up)? You were basically committing a crime. Looters!

I remember my step dad used to record shows he liked that were on while he was at work on the VCR. Fucking scumbag idea-criminal! He should still be paying his debt to ABC, NBC, and CBS.

All you intellect-thefts who TIVO, you deserve everything you have coming to you.


Unless...


IP at LewRockwell.com (http://www.google.com/custom?sa=Search&cof=LW%3A500%3BL%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.lewrockwell.co m%2Flewroc1a.gif%3BLH%3A93%3BAH%3Acenter%3BAWFID%3 A65dad07a461e3427%3B&domains=lewrockwell.com&q=intellectual+property&sitesearch=lewrockwell.com)

IP at Mises.org (http://search.mises.org/search?q=intellectual+property&site=Mises_Daily&btnG=Search+Mises.org&entqr=0&output=xml_no_dtd&sort=date%3AD%3AL%3Ad1&ud=1&client=default_frontend&oe=UTF-8&ie=UTF-8&proxystylesheet=default_frontend)

Stephan Kinsella on IP (http://blog.mises.org/archives/001771.asp)

And these (which I have not yet read):

The philosophical argument: Against Intellectual Property (http://mises.org/store/Against-Intellectual-Property-P523.aspx)

The practical argument: Against Intellectual Monopoly (http://mises.org/store/Against-Intellectual-Monopoly-P552.aspx)

[Matt Collins]

Remember all those mixed tapes you used to make in grade school from recording stuff off the radio (for you who are 25 and up)? You were basically committing a crime. Incorrect. That falls under fair use, specifically for personal use and time-shifting.



I remember my step dad used to record shows he liked that were on while he was at work on the VCR. Fucking scumbag idea-criminal! He should still be paying his debt to ABC, NBC, and CBS.No, again it's still time-shifting which is allowed.

And none of it is criminal (for the most part), it is civil. There is a very large and important difference.

[free.alive]

Incorrect. That falls under fair use, specifically for personal use and time-shifting.

...which is allowed.

And none of it is criminal (for the most part), it is civil. There is a very large and important difference.


Come on, Matt! Weren't you a music propagandist back in 6th grade?!?!

And we had a great Three Stooges Compilation which I'm sure was given out. Remember the dual VCR?


Basically, the codes as they stand are arbitrary and immoral, putting non-criminal behavior by all reasonable standards on the receiving end of the law. Intellectual Property is a figment of the imaginations of those who promote and benefit from the industrial protection of the state.

[Sandman33]

I bet he just can't WAIT to claim bankruptcy.