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View Full Version : Left Vs. Right: The Illusion Of Opposites




RonPaulGetsIt
09-26-2007, 03:29 AM
by G. Edward Griffin

Would you rather be a Neoconservative or a Progressive? That is a trick question. The trick is in the fact that, although there may be differences between the rhetoric and short-term agendas of these groups, their long-term goals actually are the same. They may differ over how to fight a war in the Middle East but not over the right of the President to wage such a war empowered by the UN instead of Congress. They may differ over what kind of speech should be forbidden ("subversive" speech vs. "hate" speech, for example) but not over the right of the government to forbid it. They may differ over how fast to bankrupt the nation to provide benefits for its citizens but not over the assumption that providing benefits is what governments are supposed to do. They disagree over tactics, timing, and style, but not objectives. They fight for dominance within the New World Order, but they work together to build it. That is because both groups have embraced the underlying ideology of global collectivism.
The illusion of opposites has been a dominant part of the world's political landscape for over a century and it has been the primary reason for the advance of collectivism during that time. In the epic struggles of World War II, millions of patriotic citizens within the combatant nations passionately supported their leaders, believing they were defending against an evil empire. Russians fought for Communism; Germans fought for Nazism; Italians fought for Fascism. Yet, these were merely variants of the underlying ideology, called collectivism, that was common to them all.
Americans, of course, were horrified by such political doctrines and fought, instead, for Democracy. They did not realize that, while that word filled their heads with visions of freedom and justice for all, their leaders had another definition as they quietly converted the United States into a collectivist regime incredibly similar to the ones against which they fought. The contest was never about ideology. It was always about who would be the victor and who would be the vanquished; who would emerge from the war with world power; who would control the natural resources; who would create the new boundaries; who would judge and who would hang.
In our present era, there are few champions for Communism and practically none for Nazism or Fascism, but everyone claims to be a champion of Democracy. Neoconservatives and Progressives, alike, sprinkle their rhetoric with this word like salt on a fresh baked potato. This is a clue that it has no meaningful definition. It is used as a political mantra to hypnotize the masses into a receptive state of mind. After all, anyone who speaks in defense of Democracy has got to be a good guy, right?
http://www.freedomforceinternational.org/dev/pics/Republinazi_Democommie.jpg In today's debate, the illusion of opposites has become a myth of gigantic proportions. On one side - supposedly the Left side - we have Leftists, Communists, Socialists, Marxists, Neo Marxists, Leninists, Maoists, Liberals, Progressives, and (in The U.S.) Democrats. On the other side - supposedly the Right side - we have Rightists, Nazis, Neo Nazis, Fascists, Conservatives, Neoconservatives, Reactionaries, and (in the U.S.) Republicans.
Almost all modern political debate is framed by these words; yet, there is no one who can define what they mean except to their own satisfaction. There is no universally accepted understanding that will be accepted by advocates and critics alike. The possible exceptions are those that bear the names of authors, such as Marx, Lenin, and Mao, because it could be argued that they represent the views expressed in their writings. However, we are still left with the formidable task of accurately summarizing those views to everyone's satisfaction.
Social mores and religious beliefs sometimes divide along the Left-Right political axis. Those on the Left are more likely to embrace life styles that those on the Right would consider improper or even sinful. Those on the Right are more likely to be church-going members of an organized religion. But these are not definitive values, because there is a great deal of diversity on both sides. Republicans smoke pot. Democrats go to church. Social or religious values cannot be included in any meaningful definition of these groups.
Be that as it may, the degree to which there truly are definable qualities to these labels is the same degree to which we can understand that they are similar. For example, if there is any doubt of the similarity between the collectivism of Marx and the collectivism of Hitler, all one has to do is read Das Kapital, The Communist Manifesto, and Mein Kampf. The point is that, when the labels are peeled off and the underlying ideologies are examined, we come inexorably to the conclusion that every one of them is built upon the foundation of collectivism. We are expected to choose sides when, in reality, there is no substantial difference between them. No matter which side we choose, we are on the side of collectivism. That is the trick.
What are the elements of collectivism that are common to all of these seemingly opposite forces? Collectivists on the so-called Left and Right agree that:
1. Rights are derived from the state;
2. The group is more important than the individual;
3. Coercion is the preferred method to bring about reform;
4. Laws should be applied differently to different classes;
5. Providing benefits (redistributing wealth) is the proper role of government.
These are the core principles held by collectivists in their quest to remold mankind to their hearts desire. The main disagreement among them is over how those principles should be applied. They do not realize that it's not the application of those principles, but the principles themselves that cause injustice, scarcity, and freedom's demise. History has already shown this truth in the form of despotism under Nazism (the so-called Right) and Communism (the so-called Left). It is sad that intelligent people with knowledge of this history still cling to the myth that they are opposites when it is so clear they are merely different manifestations of the same ideology.

nexalacer
09-26-2007, 03:55 AM
Great article... links are better than copy and paste though..

http://www.freedomforceinternational.org/freedomcontent.cfm?fuseaction=left_right&refpage=issues

Man from La Mancha
09-26-2007, 03:57 AM
Great article... links are better than copy and paste though..

http://www.freedomforceinternational.org/freedomcontent.cfm?fuseaction=left_right&refpage=issues
I respectively disagree if the article is not multi page I like the article posted here or the pictures.

.

JosephTheLibertarian
09-26-2007, 04:00 AM
as a libertarian... I am a uhh "north winger"

http://interocitor.com/images/spec1.jpg

I don't know what to call it

noxagol
09-26-2007, 04:39 AM
I like G. Edward Griffin.

nexalacer
09-26-2007, 06:59 AM
I respectively disagree if the article is not multi page I like the article posted here or the pictures.

.

Ah, yeah, I can see that.... how about both? I like links so I can spread the story easily to many people in my own circle.

tsopranos
09-26-2007, 07:15 AM
Here's another good article from a while back....by David Boaz. Too bad Cato has abandoned the one candidate they should be supporting.


Left and Right in the Same Sorry Rut
http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=2771

by David Boaz

David Boaz is executive vice president of the Cato Institute and author of Libertarianism: A Primer (Free Press, 1998).



The country is polarized, we're told. Bush-haters versus Clinton-haters. Mel Gibson versus Michael Moore. Red states versus blue states. Liberals and conservatives read different books, watch different networks, go to different churches.

But liberals and conservatives have more in common than you might think.

Both believe in government magic. And they want you to believe in it too. They want you to believe the president can be Superman, Santa Claus and Mother Teresa all rolled into one and that he can cure poverty and racism, keep kids off drugs and keep families together. Magical thinking is cute among children. But adults should know that the world is complicated and that legislative actions often fail, or backfire, or have unintended consequences or disappear into bureaucratic sinkholes.

Both ignore history. Liberals look at the 20th century's grand experiment of capitalism versus socialism -- the United States versus the Soviet Union, Western Europe versus Eastern Europe, China versus Hong Kong -- and somehow conclude that what the U.S. needs today is more socialism. National health insurance, a more centralized educational system, government regulation for our most dynamic industries -- in every case ignoring the historical triumph of competition and freedom. Conservatives think government can restore the world of the 1950s, ignoring the most basic lesson of history: Things change.

Both respond to special interests. Look at the Bush administration: an energy bill designed by energy companies, a steel tariff on imports for the steel industry, a Medicare drug entitlement that will shift costs from big business to the taxpayers, the proposed Federal Marriage Amendment for religious-right supporters. Meanwhile, liberal administrations never forget the trial lawyers, the feminists, the civil rights lawyers and the other groups that help them gain power.

Both involve the nation in unnecessary wars. Conservatives think the U.S. should send troops anywhere our vital interests are threatened, and they have a very expansive definition of our "vital interests." Liberals take a different tack: They like to send troops anywhere our interests are not threatened -- it seems less greedy and Republican. That's why liberals get excited about sending U.S. troops to Somalia, Liberia and Bosnia.

Both will forgive anything a member of their team does. Remember when conservatives thought President Clinton's dalliance with Monica Lewinsky was a national scandal, and liberals thought conservatives were a bunch of prudes? Then Arnold Schwarzenegger was accused of groping women, and suddenly the liberals wanted to hang him and the conservatives said Democrats should lighten up.

Conservatives sued to make Hillary Rodham Clinton report who was on her healthcare task force; liberals sued to make Dick Cheney tell us who was on his energy task force.

The red team/blue team mentality applies even to trivia: Liberals are shocked that Cheney said a bad word to a senator, but uber-liberal Hillary Clinton said, "You go, girl!" when Teresa Heinz Kerry told a reporter to "shove it!" Conservatives, outraged about Heinz Kerry's rudeness, had defended Cheney's vulgarity on the Senate floor.

And the No. 1 way liberals and conservatives are alike: Both think they can run your life better than you can.

Liberals want to raise taxes because they can spend your money better than you can. They don't believe in school choice because you're not capable of choosing a school for your children. They think they can handle your healthcare, your retirement and your charitable contributions better than you can.

Conservatives want to censor cable television because you're too dumb to decide what your family should watch. They want to ban drugs, pornography, gambling and gay marriage because you just don't know what's good for you.

The reality is, Americans aren't as polarized as the pundits say. Most want government out of their pocketbooks and personal lives. They want civil liberties and lower taxes. And they feel free to reject both liberals and conservatives when their ideas don't make sense.


This article was published in the Los Angeles Times, August 3, 2004.

JosephTheLibertarian
09-26-2007, 07:23 AM
The CATO Institute SUCKS. He represents their views and they continue to pound on him.. I don't know what I hate more: neo cons or philosophical traitors? hm

noxagol
09-26-2007, 09:58 AM
The CATO Institute SUCKS. He represents their views and they continue to pound on him.. I don't know what I hate more: neo cons or philosophical traitors? hm

Aren't those the same thing?

redpillguy
09-26-2007, 05:57 PM
Good link.

Read my blog, "Rep / Dem = good cop bad cop"

http://rabbit-hole-journey.blogspot.com/2007/08/democrat-republican-good-cop-bad-cop.html

http://rabbit-hole-journey.blogspot.com/2007/08/democrat-republican-good-cop-bad-cop-pt.html

BuddyRey
09-26-2007, 08:36 PM
The CATO Institute SUCKS. He represents their views and they continue to pound on him.. I don't know what I hate more: neo cons or philosophical traitors? hm

Forgive my ignorance, but I thought the CATO Institute was one of the biggest representatives for libertarians and libertarian philosophy out there. Not trying to generalize of course, just curious (I have to confess to not knowing much about libertarianism). Do other libt's dislike the CATO Institute also?

constituent
09-26-2007, 08:59 PM
hey... freedom force international... i checked their info out the other
day after seekliberty linked to them in a thread over at the ron paul freedom forum. the place is loaded with great reading material, and i even thought
about joining. i highly recommend everyone go check out their site and
read some of the great work available over there.

constituent
09-26-2007, 09:00 PM
Forgive my ignorance, but I thought the CATO Institute was one of the biggest representatives for libertarians and libertarian philosophy out there. Not trying to generalize of course, just curious (I have to confess to not knowing much about libertarianism). Do other libt's dislike the CATO Institute also?

Very much so, yes. And i'm not even technically a libertarian so I don't have
any sort of betrayal/bad blood with them either, but there are some rather
angry/upset/betrayed/disillusioned folks who happen to technically be libertarians.

JosephTheLibertarian
09-26-2007, 09:00 PM
Forgive my ignorance, but I thought the CATO Institute was one of the biggest representatives for libertarians and libertarian philosophy out there. Not trying to generalize of course, just curious (I have to confess to not knowing much about libertarianism). Do other libt's dislike the CATO Institute also?

they don't like Ron Paul

BuddyRey
09-26-2007, 09:31 PM
they don't like Ron Paul

OOOHH!!!! So they're like the "Reason Magazine" libertarians?

I picked up my very first Reason magazine the other day and nearly spit coffee everywhere when I read glowing praises of open borders and flat-out denial of the NAU!!! :eek:

It's a shame too, because there's actually some great writing in there.