Why not bring back exiling?

[LibertiORDeth]

Let's say someone commits a sex crime against young children, which involves kidnapping, rape, then getting caught. What if this person were sent to some island owned by the US government which in a sense would be a prison, but more then anything would be a community behind walls where they could do anything they want, without being in prison yet not in society with civilized people either. This is a better alternative then what I would choose otherwise, which would be immediate death, as by doing so you have taken away your freedom to live with free, somewhat normal people. Thoughts?

[Objectivist]

Can we bring back tar and feathering too?

[ChaosControl]

I'd be okay with it as long as we allowed vigilantism on this island.

[Kotin]

why not just send em to the sun...


thats stupid too.

[ChaosControl]

why not just send em to the sun...


thats stupid too.

We could throw em in a volcano. :)

[jkr]

escape from newyork?

[LittleLightShining]

What about exile would deter someone else from committing the crime? I think bringing back a scarlet letter would be good. How about an "R" for rapist or "M" for molester tattoed or branded on the cheek just below one's eye?

[Freedom 4 all]

Let's say someone commits a sex crime against young children, which involves kidnapping, rape, then getting caught. What if this person were sent to some island owned by the US government which in a sense would be a prison, but more then anything would be a community behind walls where they could do anything they want, without being in prison yet not in society with civilized people either. This is a better alternative then what I would choose otherwise, which would be immediate death, as by doing so you have taken away your freedom to live with free, somewhat normal people. Thoughts?

I like this idea. It frees up the crowded prison system and if the island is self sufficient, means no more paying for their keep.

[dannno]

It's called Australia.

[dannno]

I think if prostitution were legalized it would cut down on rape and child molestation significantly.

[Number19]

Science fiction Grand Master Robert Heinlein wrote a story in 1953 - Coventry - with a similar idea. Criminals and misfits were given the option of having their brain altered, to make them socially fit, or of being exiled to Coventry - a sealed off area governed (or not) by anarchy. The lead character, who thought of himself as an individualists, who refused to comply with social norms, thought of Coventry, before being exiled there, as a Jeffersonian ideal society. Heinlein had him learning otherwise.

[Number19]

In ancient, classical Athens, politicians, if they made decisions which were too unpopular, or proved harmful to the nation, could face the death penalty. They were considered lucky if only exiled.

[Matt Collins]

I think if prostitution were legalized it would cut down on rape and child molestation significantly.Dumbest post in this thread :rolleyes:

[Matt Collins]

It's called Australia.Funniest post in this thread! :D

[mediahasyou]

Britain sent their criminals over to the New World...look where it got them. ;)


Courts in the Market Anarchism World.
A better idea than exiling is ostracizing. In market anarchism, if you are proven guilty of a crime against another, the DRO will end its contract with you if you do not comply with the necessary reform.

You could try to escape but a DRO would capture you for trespassing.

You can choose to not have a contract under a DRO and not do the reform. But no person would want to do business with you or let you use their services (like the grocery store). No grocery store would want a child molester in their store. The private roads also will find it risky to let you use their services. SO you starve. Or you somehow become self sufficient trapped on your own property. You may be able to get a helicopter from a underground group. But you will only be able to go to so called "underground" (unprotected by a respectable DRO) places. In short, you will have to deal with other criminals.

Or you can do the necessary reform. After X years of labor, (the money would pay for the DRO court fees and the raped person) some places will start to feel safe to do business with you again. Over time, more and more businesses will trust you and you will be able to do business with more and more people (if you don't fuck up again).

[dannno]

Dumbest post in this thread :rolleyes:

If one were so inclined to rape and potentially face serious legal consequences, don't you think they would choose to pay a fair market price to a willing participant for it with no consequences instead?

[powerofreason]

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/30/fail_thread.jpg

Private law is teh solution to teh problem of crimez!

[powerofreason]

If one were so inclined to rape and potentially face serious legal consequences, don't you think they would choose to pay a fair market price to a willing participant for it with no consequences instead?

Silence fool! There is no logic allowed in this thread!

[Matt Collins]

If one were so inclined to rape and potentially face serious legal consequences, don't you think they would choose to pay a fair market price to a willing participant for it with no consequences instead?I don't know. I am not in the mind of a rapist.

[Number19]

Britain sent their criminals over to the New World...look where it got them. ;)


Courts in the Market Anarchism World.
A better idea than exiling is ostracizing. In market anarchism, if you are proven guilty of a crime against another, the DRO will end its contract with you if you do not comply with the necessary reform.

You could try to escape but a DRO would capture you for trespassing.

You can choose to not have a contract under a DRO and not do the reform. But no person would want to do business with you or let you use their services (like the grocery store). No grocery store would want a child molester in their store. The private roads also will find it risky to let you use their services. SO you starve. Or you somehow become self sufficient trapped on your own property. You may be able to get a helicopter from a underground group. But you will only be able to go to so called "underground" (unprotected by a respectable DRO) places. In short, you will have to deal with other criminals.

Or you can do the necessary reform. After X years of labor, (the money would pay for the DRO court fees and the raped person) some places will start to feel safe to do business with you again. Over time, more and more businesses will trust you and you will be able to do business with more and more people (if you don't fuck up again).How would anyone know you are guilty of a crime, unless you have some form of national ID or tracking system for all citizens. It's like this mythical negative reputation, for young teenage girls, of "promiscuity". But, you turn 18, you move to a new town and no one knows your prior reputation. Same is true for your example. Unless you actually imprison a criminal, you can't prevent that person from moving beyond the reach of your ostracism.

[powerofreason]

This is why its important to have market solutions to problems like crime. Otherwise any bozo bureaucrat or wannabe central planner can get their dumb idea enacted.

Markets filter out the crap and bad ideas automatically.

[powerofreason]

How would anyone know you are guilty of a crime, unless you have some form of national ID or tracking system for all citizens. It's like this mythical negative reputation, for young teenage girls, of "promiscuity". But, you turn 18, you move to a new town and no one knows your prior reputation. Same is true for your example. Unless you actually imprison a criminal, you can't prevent that person from moving beyond the reach of your ostracism.

Under market anarchism people would most likely have reputation ratings which is like an expanded form of credit rating. In order to get a job, take out a loan, or simply enter a supermarket (for example) you may need to have your reputation tracked by a reputable reputation tracking company. Funny how some people have absolute faith in the market in some areas and utter doubt in others. Either the market works or it don't.

You trust bureaucrats and central planners (that is to say, failed businessmen and sick control freaks) to solve problems as important as reducing crime?

It is also important to note that insurance companies unrestrained by government will most likely have a large role in reducing crime rates. It may be cheaper for an insurance company to hire armed guards to patrol high crime areas than to payout victims of violent crimes all the time, for example. The market solves all problems, if given a chance. And if there's a problem the market can't solve, no way in hell are government bozos gonna solve it.

[dannno]

I don't know. I am not in the mind of a rapist.

Why do you have to be in the mind of a rapist to understand what they are after?

I am male, and I know what they are after. That doesn't mean I would be willing to put any female through the pain that accompanies rape to get it, nor do I desire to be with a woman who is anything else but into me, but I still know what they're after.

[Number19]

Under market anarchism people would most likely have reputation ratings which is like an expanded form of credit rating. In order to get a job, take out a loan, or simply enter a supermarket (for example) you may need to have your reputation tracked by a reputable reputation tracking company. Funny how some people have absolute faith in the market in some areas and utter doubt in others. Either the market works or it don't.

You trust bureaucrats and central planners (that is to say, failed businessmen and sick control freaks) to solve problems as important as reducing crime?

It is also important to note that insurance companies unrestrained by government will most likely have a large role in reducing crime rates. It may be cheaper for an insurance company to hire armed guards to patrol high crime areas than to payout victims of violent crimes all the time, for example. The market solves all problems, if given a chance. And if there's a problem the market can't solve, no way in hell are government bozos gonna solve it."...Funny how some people have absolute faith in the market in some areas and utter doubt in others. Either the market works or it don't...." You can't have this without "statism". You simply can't get anywhere near 100% compliance. I totally accept the free market. One response to your "social system" is to simply move in the underground, black market.

[eduardo89]

It's called Australia.

That joke never went down well with my australian ex-gf...

[Objectivist]

I think if prostitution were legalized it would cut down on rape and child molestation significantly.

One has nothing to do with the other, unless you have some new research on the subject?

[powerofreason]

"...Funny how some people have absolute faith in the market in some areas and utter doubt in others. Either the market works or it don't...." You can't have this without "statism". You simply can't get anywhere near 100% compliance. I totally accept the free market. One response to your "social system" is to simply move in the underground, black market.

The criminal life sucks under market anarchy.

There's no black market. There's no inflated prices anywhere due to government. A heroin habit costs as much as a loaf of bread per day.

The beautiful thing about anarchy is that nobody HAS to do anything (legally). But if you want to go shopping you'll have to swipe your rep card (from a major and trusted company) at the door to gain entry. Don't want to comply? No entry, and no ones rights have been violated.

[dannno]

One has nothing to do with the other, unless you have some new research on the subject?

That is ridiculous, why do you need research??

But yes, increases in access to pornography have led to severely declining rates of rape. Legal prostitution would have an even bigger effect in the same direction.

[powerofreason]

That is ridiculous, why do you need research??

But yes, increases in access to pornography have led to severely declining rates of rape. Legal prostitution would have an even bigger effect in the same direction.

What a bizarre conclusion.
jk

[mediahasyou]

How would anyone know you are guilty of a crime, unless you have some form of national ID or tracking system for all citizens. It's like this mythical negative reputation, for young teenage girls, of "promiscuity". But, you turn 18, you move to a new town and no one knows your prior reputation. Same is true for your example. Unless you actually imprison a criminal, you can't prevent that person from moving beyond the reach of your ostracism.

Great question. Most payments would be done through credit cards because it is not practical to print trillions of paper money. Everything is private now. So before you enter a store, you have to scan your card. Or they may have some sort of facial recognition software/finger printing/whatever.

DROs will share all information with other DROs. Everyone wants a DRO to prevent crime, so DROs will share information with other DROs to prevent criminals from being able to just "switch communities". Of course, there will be reform communities available for them.

Throwing people in a cage is immoral. I don't care what a criminal does as long as I don't interact with them.

[Number19]

Great question. Most payments would be done through credit cards because it is not practical to print trillions of paper money. Everything is private now. So before you enter a store, you have to scan your card. Or they may have some sort of facial recognition software/finger printing/whatever.

DROs will share all information with other DROs. Everyone wants a DRO to prevent crime, so DROs will share information with other DROs to prevent criminals from being able to just "switch communities". Of course, there will be reform communities available for them.

Throwing people in a cage is immoral. I don't care what a criminal does as long as I don't interact with them.I don't get your acronym, but I'm referring to the individualists who refuse to join or cooperate with your DROs. I'm saying there will be stores that accept gold and silver in exchange and will not have to have customers scan any kind of card to enter. I know of a community in Arkansas, kind of like the old western Hole-In-Wall, who won't live by your rules and would give sanctuary to any old scoundrel like me.

There will be a black market, there always is, consisting of all those individualists who refuse to comply with the acceptable social norms.

[LittleLightShining]

How would anyone know you are guilty of a crime, unless you have some form of national ID or tracking system for all citizens. It's like this mythical negative reputation, for young teenage girls, of "promiscuity". But, you turn 18, you move to a new town and no one knows your prior reputation. Same is true for your example. Unless you actually imprison a criminal, you can't prevent that person from moving beyond the reach of your ostracism.
Hence my scarlet letter proposal. There's no hiding if you're marked.

[Number19]

I think if prostitution were legalized it would cut down on rape and child molestation significantly.The first thing you have to do is to define what "rape" and "child molestation" actually is.

Is it an 18 yr old young woman having consensual sex with a 16 year old young man?

[LibertiORDeth]

What about exile would deter someone else from committing the crime? I think bringing back a scarlet letter would be good. How about an "R" for rapist or "M" for molester tattoed or branded on the cheek just below one's eye?

Because... the only crimes they could commit would be against other criminals.

[LibertiORDeth]

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/30/fail_thread.jpg

Private law is teh solution to teh problem of crimez!

That's the second time today someone has posted that picture on a thread of mine :(.

[LibertiORDeth]

Under market anarchism people would most likely have reputation ratings which is like an expanded form of credit rating. In order to get a job, take out a loan, or simply enter a supermarket (for example) you may need to have your reputation tracked by a reputable reputation tracking company. Funny how some people have absolute faith in the market in some areas and utter doubt in others. Either the market works or it don't.

You trust bureaucrats and central planners (that is to say, failed businessmen and sick control freaks) to solve problems as important as reducing crime?

It is also important to note that insurance companies unrestrained by government will most likely have a large role in reducing crime rates. It may be cheaper for an insurance company to hire armed guards to patrol high crime areas than to payout victims of violent crimes all the time, for example. The market solves all problems, if given a chance. And if there's a problem the market can't solve, no way in hell are government bozos gonna solve it.

The point is to keep them away from people, not stop them from living a normal life or getting a job.

[eduardo89]

I'd rather use the death penalty on a child rapist/murdered than setting him free on an island...send that son a bitch straight to hell!

[Number19]

I'd rather use the death penalty on a child rapist/murdered than setting him free on an island...send that son a bitch straight to hell!Why should a "child" rapist/murdered be treated any different from an "adult" rapist/murdered? Are these two different crimes?

[eduardo89]

Why should a "child" rapist/murdered be treated any different from an "adult" rapist/murdered? Are these two different crimes?

I'd say raping a child is a much more heinous crime, but then again, i support the death penalty in pretty much any aggravated rape case

[Number19]

I'd say raping a child is a much more heinous crime, but then again, i support the death penalty in pretty much any aggravated rape caseI've read interpretations that any intercourse between a man and a woman is "rape" - even consensual acts between a husband and a wife.

My point is that it is impossible to engage in any discussion on these topics without first fully establishing definitions of what constitutes these so called acts of crime.

I have a very liberal outlook on responsibility and believe that young adults - post puberty, 13 thru 17 years of age - are capable of understanding consequences of actions and granting consent. So crimes against "children", to me, apply only to those pre-puberty - younger than 13.

Rape is a crime of violence and needs no reference to the age of the victim - it is all the same.

[eduardo89]

Well I agree that post-puberty teens are able to grant consent, I would still prosecute people who take advantage of positions of power over under-18 year olds

[Number19]

Well I agree that post-puberty teens are able to grant consent, I would still prosecute people who take advantage of positions of power over under-18 year oldsWhat about people/men not in a position of power who takes advantage of a 17 yr old? What if the 17 yr old says NO, I'm not being taken advantage of? What if it is the 17 yr old is the one taking advantage of a wealthy older man?

There is too much room for the unequal application of the law, creating injustice in the legal system

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

The law is like that because the government can't handle every single individual case. Just like how I'm discriminated against because they can't handle every case, so they use affirmative action.

[LittleLightShining]

Because... the only crimes they could commit would be against other criminals.

No. What I mean is, what would deter some other sick bastard who just wants to drop out of society from committing an exilable crime?

[Krugerrand]

What if this person were sent to some island owned by the US government which in a sense would be a prison, but more then anything would be a community behind walls where they could do anything they want, without being in prison yet not in society with civilized people either.

Why waste good island real estate? And exactly why does the US Government own islands? :)

[Mini-Me]

Hence my scarlet letter proposal. There's no hiding if you're marked.

What a great idea! After all, nobody has ever been wrongly convicted before, especially in cases of rape, which never come down to one person's word against another's! Besides, I think it would also be inconceivable for someone to purposely destroy another person's life with a rape accusation. :rolleyes:

Sorry (so to speak) for the assholish sarcasm, but I wanted to get the idea across forcefully: There's something very, very dangerous about punishments that do irreversible physical damage to a person...because they are in fact irreversible. For the same reason Ron Paul has turned against the death penalty (there have been too many mistakes), I could never accept people being irrevocably mutilated, branded with letters, etc., no matter what they have been convicted of. The legal system is not perfect, and it will never be perfect. For crimes which victims cannot be compensated for fully (plus "interest," yada yada), we would be wise to take this imperfection into account when devising punishments...instead of granting the unaccountable, nigh-invincible state the power to mutilate convicts with impunity.

[LittleLightShining]

What a great idea! After all, nobody has ever been wrongly convicted before, especially in cases of rape, which often come down to one person's word against another's! Besides, I think it would also be inconceivable for someone to purposely destroy another person's life with a rape accusation. :rolleyes:

Sorry for the assholish sarcasm, but I wanted to get the idea across forcefully: There's something very, very dangerous about punishments that do irreversible physical damage to a person...because they are in fact irreversible. For the same reason Ron Paul has turned against the death penalty (there have been too many mistakes), I could never accept people being irrevocably mutilated, branded with letters, etc., no matter what they have been convicted of.

Did I propose branding or tattooing someone based on an accusation? I hear what you're saying but there is technology that can be used nowadays. It seems to me that rape and molestation are prime uses for DNA evidence. If an accuser waits to complain and evidence is not available then no marking would occur. I disagree with the death penalty but I also disagree with feeding and housing criminals for the rest of their lives.

[Mini-Me]

Did I propose branding or tattooing someone based on an accusation? I hear what you're saying but there is technology that can be used nowadays. It seems to me that rape and molestation are prime uses for DNA evidence. If an accuser waits to complain and evidence is not available then no marking would occur. I disagree with the death penalty but I also disagree with feeding and housing criminals for the rest of their lives.

Oh, so do I...but I don't think it would be impossible to design a system in which criminals paid their own way. There was a minarchy/anarchy thread pretty recently where I was kind of thinking aloud about common law anarcho-capitalism:

Obviously, full restitution is not always possible, because money will never bring back loved ones, lost limbs, dignity lost in a rape, etc. People have spoken about indentured servitude as an option for restitution, and that's a possibility, but there will always be dangerous [often repeat] violent offenders who will not respect their sentences...and for them, there's pretty much no option other than "eye for an eye" or prison. "Eye for an eye" is a dangerous proposition, since we don't want a court to authorize the killing or permanent maiming of someone who we later find to be wrongfully convicted...so we're left with prison as a necessity. So, who pays for prison sentences when there are no taxpayers? Insurance is pretty unlikely in this case, because applying for such insurance would generally mean you think it's reasonably likely you might end up in prison, and that would make you pretty uninsurable. ;) Ultimately, it would be up to the convict to pay his own way. If he can't pay out of pocket, his family won't/can't pay, and charity won't pay, then it's up to the prison to determine how to put him to work to pay his own way. To prevent conflicts of interest and payola, not only should ALL verdicts and sentences be determined by a jury, but convicts should get their choice of prison...assuming the prison actually meets the definition of a prison as written into the common law. Obviously, they'll pick the one with the best reputation for treating prisoners. This kind of competition between prisons will prevent misery profiteers from getting unduly rich off of prisoner labor, and it will also prevent prisons from being able to unfairly undercut market prices of goods (thereby eliminating any incentive a jury might have to deliver unfair prison sentences just because they will result in cheaper goods on the market).

That was just me thinking aloud, but I'm pretty sure some anarcho-capitalist writers have covered the topic of "prisoners paying their own way" in depth. It's definitely something that would have to be well-designed to prevent conflicts of interest from arising, but I don't think it's impossible.

Even restricting mutilation to cases with DNA evidence isn't foolproof, by the way. Consider a case where a girl says, "He raped me!" and her boyfriend says, "It was consentual!" Even if it's clear that sex took place, it's not always clear it was rape. What if the girl is all beaten up? That's usually enough to convict beyond a reasonable doubt ("prove")...but what if she starts to develop a pattern of this, and it turns out she's some psychopath who routinely cries rape against boyfriends for petty revenge and then beats herself up (or hires someone to) to prove it? Then prior convictions of ex-boyfriends may be overturned, and I don't exactly like the idea of them running around with a scarlet letter branded into their skin.

Besides, once you start restricting mutilation to a subset of cases, it loses its point (other than viciousness in punishment). You're going to have to deal with the prison option* for other cases anyway, which means having a mutilation sentence for a small subset of cases isn't even a solution to people paying for prisoners' room and board. It essentially creates a whole host of new problems without solving any.

*Or the exile option...but I have a feeling that a bunch of unsupervised convicts on an island might learn to work together temporarily to build a raft and/or cut through anything blocking their path. ;)

[LittleLightShining]

Oh, so do I...but I don't think it would be impossible to design a system in which criminals paid their own way. There was a minarchy/anarchy thread pretty recently where I was kind of thinking aloud about common law anarcho-capitalism:


That was just me thinking aloud, but I'm pretty sure some anarcho-capitalist writers have covered the topic of "prisoners paying their own way" in depth. It's definitely something that would have to be well-designed to prevent conflicts of interest from arising, but I don't think it's impossible.I know our state Constitution demands that prisoners perform labor, preferably hard, in a public place. My take is that it is important that convicts be visible doing hard work as a deterrent to others. On the other hand, prison labor takes jobs from other people so that may not be the best route to take. Marking a person for a proven, heinous crime lets people know this person is dangerous but can still be productive.

[Mini-Me]

I know our state Constitution demands that prisoners perform labor, preferably hard, in a public place. My take is that it is important that convicts be visible doing hard work as a deterrent to others. On the other hand, prison labor takes jobs from other people so that may not be the best route to take. Marking a person for a proven, heinous crime lets people know this person is dangerous but can still be productive.

Reposting since you responded before the edits:

Even restricting mutilation to cases with DNA evidence isn't foolproof, by the way. Consider a case where a girl says, "He raped me!" and her boyfriend says, "It was consentual!" Even if it's clear that sex took place, it's not always clear it was rape. What if the girl is all beaten up? That's usually enough to convict beyond a reasonable doubt ("prove")...but what if she starts to develop a pattern of this, and it turns out she's some psychopath who routinely cries rape against boyfriends for petty revenge and then beats herself up (or hires someone to) to prove it? Then prior convictions of ex-boyfriends may be overturned, and I don't exactly like the idea of them running around with a scarlet letter branded into their skin.

Besides, once you start restricting mutilation to a subset of cases, it loses its point (other than viciousness in punishment). You're going to have to deal with the prison option* for other cases anyway, which means having a mutilation sentence for a small subset of cases isn't even a solution to people paying for prisoners' room and board. It essentially creates a whole host of new problems without solving any.

*Or the exile option...but I have a feeling that a bunch of unsupervised convicts on an island might learn to work together temporarily to build a raft and/or cut through anything blocking their path. ;)

[mediahasyou]

I don't get your acronym, but I'm referring to the individualists who refuse to join or cooperate with your DROs. I'm saying there will be stores that accept gold and silver in exchange and will not have to have customers scan any kind of card to enter. I know of a community in Arkansas, kind of like the old western Hole-In-Wall, who won't live by your rules and would give sanctuary to any old scoundrel like me.

There will be a black market, there always is, consisting of all those individualists who refuse to comply with the acceptable social norms.

"Dispute Resolution Organization", these will give you the optional services that the government provides now.

If Man B attacks Man A, Man B and Man A will be each be represented by their own DRO. They would bring forth the evidence and most likely settle like most court cases do out of court these days. They negotiate any possible controversy within a market anarchism society.

[powerofreason]

What some people don't understand is that market anarchy isn't a system to be forced on people. It s just whats going to happen in the absence of government.

[Pauls' Revere]

Alcatraz? and If they escape no one in San Francisco would notice.

[Imperial]

Exiling is just a use of coercive government force to enforce conformity. When you exile a rapist you want to get rid of rape from your society. When you exile a political opponent you want to erase his alternative from society. Which is not necessarily off-limits(after all, prison does the same purpose within one's borders) but it is defrinitely an area you must tread carefully.

[Pauls' Revere]

This is why its important to have market solutions to problems like crime. Otherwise any bozo bureaucrat or wannabe central planner can get their dumb idea enacted.

Markets filter out the crap and bad ideas automatically.

Law of The Jungle?

The Wild West?

I must say when I lived in Arizona and saw people carrying guns in the supermarket as casual as groceries one becomes aware of what to say and who to say it to.

;)

[Number19]

What some people don't understand is that market anarchy isn't a system to be forced on people. It s just whats going to happen in the absence of government.I get it. But statements have been made that people will be unable to work, shop, etc without character validation by a form of id card/system (DRO's). And I counter that this is not possible because you will never get 100% compliance. This could possibly work at the local level, ie, the Amish, but the claim was that this would work on the national level and individuals would be unable to move beyond its effectiveness. I grant that you could theoretically have a social order, even voluntary, built around this idea, but in a truly free society you will always have a parallel economy, where individuals could move without the constraints of your DRO's. I will also grant you that many of the sheeple may be incapable of living/surviving in this underground economy. Individualists, libertarians, survivalist personalities & criminals would most likely move back and forth between these two economies as situations dictated or allowed. As Hank, jr sang : country boys can survive.

[powerofreason]

I get it. But statements have been made that people will be unable to work, shop, etc without character validation by a form of id card/system (DRO's). And I counter that this is not possible because you will never get 100% compliance. This could possibly work at the local level, ie, the Amish, but the claim was that this would work on the national level and individuals would be unable to move beyond its effectiveness. I grant that you could theoretically have a social order, even voluntary, built around this idea, but in a truly free society you will always have a parallel economy, where individuals could move without the constraints of your DRO's. I will also grant you that many of the sheeple may be incapable of living/surviving in this underground economy. Individualists, libertarians, survivalist personalities & criminals would most likely move back and forth between these two economies as situations dictated or allowed. As Hank, jr sang : country boys can survive.

You don't need 100% compliance. It will only be enforced to the extent people want to put up with the inconvenience. For a Ron Paul supporter you don't understand the market very well.

[Number19]

You don't need 100% compliance. It will only be enforced to the extent people want to put up with the inconvenience.I can agree with this statement, I inferred as much in the next to last sentence of my previous post.

[Number19]

Law of The Jungle?

The Wild West?

I must say when I lived in Arizona and saw people carrying guns in the supermarket as casual as groceries one becomes aware of what to say and who to say it to.

;)I understand ( if I'm not outdated ) that Arizonia does not have "concealed carry" gun laws. Their law requires "open carry".

As science fiction Grand Master Robert Heinlein wrote : "An armed society is a polite society". You validate this.

[LibertiORDeth]

I'd say raping a child is a much more heinous crime, but then again, i support the death penalty in pretty much any aggravated rape case

This would be for people not deserving of the death penalty though, not as a replacement.

[LibertiORDeth]

Exiling is just a use of coercive government force to enforce conformity. When you exile a rapist you want to get rid of rape from your society. When you exile a political opponent you want to erase his alternative from society. Which is not necessarily off-limits(after all, prison does the same purpose within one's borders) but it is defrinitely an area you must tread carefully.

As with any crime or punishment, for that matter...