Cop unsuccessfully tries to intimidate people who know the law.

[ClayTrainor]

BOLT was asked by a few motorcyclists to help them with Officer Love in Vacaville, CA. The cop had been making some serious problems for riders in Vacaville, writing many helmet tickets, along with various other types of harrassment. Rights violations. We decided to jump in and get our own tickets, instead of just helping them with their court paperwork.

BOLT of California members Don Blanscet and Mark Temple rode to Vacavile to find the helmet ticket writing cop.
We easily found him.

All we were gonna do was go get helmet tickets but it turned into a confrontation with a cop that wanted to "take my helmet off."
Not gonna happen, officer. Not without a Warrant.

YouTube - Vacaville Cop Tricked Into Writing Helmet Tickets (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nXsAcK1prY)

[Sandman33]

That cop is your CLASSIC weenie that got beat on in high school. Little bitch voice, out there claiming to be doing the GOOD for PUBLIC SAFETY!

What an asshole.

[Dreamofunity]

I love the general 'biker' attitude.


That helmet is a little ridiculous though lol It looks like a strapped on plastic yamaka.

[catdd]

I was wondering what that thing was on his head.

[idirtify]

The main lesson here is the presence of the camera. Otherwise those cops would have never yielded to that kind of talk, and would have seized those helmets by force. If only every traffic stop were quickly swarmed by at least a couple camera-pointing motorists, it would be a much safer world. Those cops were itching to take those bikers in/down.

[Reason]

Helmet laws are retarded to begin with.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Organ donors standing up for their right to kill themselves - I love it!

Hope they checked the appropriate box on their licenses - they might save someone.

btw: "organ donors" is an unofficial term we use in ER's for morons like this. It's very accurate.

-t

[ClayTrainor]

Helmet laws are retarded to begin with.

The real helmet law is the one where your soft head gets mushed up by hard pavement at high speeds, if you fall.

The real seatbelt law is the one that sends you through a windshield if you get into an accident, and you don't wear one.

Government laws that try and regulate personal safety, are just money scams that help no one, but the government.

[heavenlyboy34]

Organ donors standing up for their right to kill themselves - I love it!

Hope they checked the appropriate box on their licenses - they might save someone.

btw: "organ donors" is an unofficial term we use in ER's for morons like this. It's very accurate.

-t

Why is that? Are not helmeted/helmetless riders about equal in terms of fatalities? :confused: (I could be misinformed there)

[tangent4ronpaul]

Why is that? Are not helmeted/helmetless riders about equal in terms of fatalities? :confused: (I could be misinformed there)

You are mis-informed. Helmets save lives. So does proper clothing.

I vividly remember one young lady who had wiped out and came into our ER. She had no skin on one side of her body and a sub-dermal hematoma. She hit hard and was in a coma) She stayed less than 3 minutes in the ER before being sent to surgery. I don't know if she lived, but it didn't look good. No helmet and wearing jeans and a T at the time of the accident. She was delivered to us nude (unusual)...

-t

[catdd]

They will save your life under 14 mph. Best protection in the world is a healthy sense of paranoia.


http://63.160.255.13/bikers/Abate%20Mensa.htm

[tangent4ronpaul]

For that matter - do do seat belts...

If you want to kill yourself - what business is ot of the state?

Oh wait! - I forgot, it's illegal to destry government property - can't loose those tax payers... (unless they are retired and need to be put out to pasture for the public good... <dripping sarcasm!>

-t

[tangent4ronpaul]

They will save your life under 14 mph. Best protection in the world is a healthy sense of paranoia.


http://63.160.255.13/bikers/Abate%20Mensa.htm

depends on how you land. Look up kevlar helmets and incoming rounds... There have been high speed wipe outs where a helmet saves someones life. Scraping pavement, being thrown and landing on a rock, etc. Don't believe the biker propaganda - look to the medical literature.

-t

[catdd]

I tend to believe biker literature over medical propaganda, thank you very much.

But the point is, they should not be mandatory.

[Sandman33]

I ride a Harley and I can tell you that the most important piece of protection you can have is a set of leather gloves.

If you go down chances are it's going to be hands first not head first.

Helmets are very good and it's wise to wear one.....AND SO ARE CONDOMS. And riding without a helmet is fucking awesome. I don't need big brother handing me tickets for either one of them.

The REAL reason for seatbelt LAWS and helmet LAWS is insurance companies paying off politicians to push legislation for it.

[tangent4ronpaul]

I tend to believe biker literature over medical propaganda, thank you very much.

But the point is, they should not be mandatory.

peer reviewed journals by professionals vs lay people w/ an agenda... let me think....

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/

I agree - they shouldn't be mandatory! - we need those organs!

-t

[catdd]

And the Insurance companies and the medical profession work hand-in-hand.
That's why I don't believe medical propaganda in this instance.

[catdd]

And I just love the way you referred to the ABATE statistics as "biker propaganda."




http://63.160.255.13/bikers/Abate%20Mensa.htm

[CCTelander]

I don't deny the possibility that helmets, or even seat belts may save a few lives, but I do have a personal experience that relates.

When I lived out west I knew a police officer. We talked about things like this regularly. One time he mentioned the fact that they were required to include whether or not drivers in accidents were wearing seat belts on their accident reports, and that the data was used as part of the data for studies on the effectiveness of various safety measures.

He also mentioned that a lot of the times he was called to an accident, he either failed to note at the time, or was unable to accurately determine whether the driver was wearing a seat belt or not. In those cases, he said, he just wrote down that they were if they survived, and weren't if they died.

Just one example of how the "official" data can be inaccurate.

[tangent4ronpaul]

I don't deny the possibility that helmets, or even seat belts may save a few lives, but I do have a personal experience that relates.

When I lived out west I knew a police officer. We talked about things like this regularly. One time he mentioned the fact that they were required to include whether or not drivers in accidents were wearing seat belts on their accident reports, and that the data was used as part of the data for studies on the effectiveness of various safety measures.

He also mentioned that a lot of the times he was called to an accident, he either failed to note at the time, or was unable to accurately determine whether the driver was wearing a seat belt or not. In those cases, he said, he just wrote down that they were if they survived, and weren't if they died.

Just one example of how the "official" data can be inaccurate.

Having worked in ambulances, (as well as ER's), there was a general rule of thumb. If the patient went through the windshield and was found dead - they were not. If they were found in the car and were alive - they were. Nuff said!

-t

[tangent4ronpaul]

I don't deny the possibility that helmets, or even seat belts may save a few lives, but I do have A personal experience that relates.



Believe me - we have a lot more "personal" experience than you will ever have....

We are the ones zipping up the body bags or delivering people to the ER...

-t

[CCTelander]

Having worked in ambulances, (as well as ER's), there was a general rule of thumb. If the patient went through the windshield and was found dead - they were not. If they were found in the car and were alive - they were. Nuff said!

-t

But I didn't say ANYTHING about them going through the windshield. That would indeed be a pretty good indication that they weren't wearing a seat belt, but not necessarily a certainty.

HOWEVER, if they simply died from injuries sustained, that doesn't necessarily saw anything at all as to whether or not they were wearing a seat belt.

[Kylie]

You are mis-informed. Helmets save lives. So does proper clothing.

I vividly remember one young lady who had wiped out and came into our ER. She had no skin on one side of her body and a sub-dermal hematoma. She hit hard and was in a coma) She stayed less than 3 minutes in the ER before being sent to surgery. I don't know if she lived, but it didn't look good. No helmet and wearing jeans and a T at the time of the accident. She was delivered to us nude (unusual)...

-t



I've been riding for 20+ years now, and have biffed it both ways.

I have had a helmet save my life, and I've seen it almost kill my husband. The only reason he is with me now is because the helmet came off instead of snapping his neck.

It's a crap shoot man. But always wearing gear is a good way to go, because having a nurse scrub you with a brush to get the gravel out of your non-skin sucks ass.

If people want to go with out it, let them. If they eat it, well, there is more air for you and I. They know the risk, and have obviously chosen to take the chance.

[virgil47]

Helmets can save lives and can take lives. I prefer to wear a helmet when riding but it should not be mandatory. The government has no business playing Mommy or Daddy. Is wearing a helmet safer ? Probably. Is owning a fire arm that will only hold one round safer? Probably. Is driving a car that can only go 50mph safer? Probably. Are mandatory life jackets for all swimmers safer? Probably. However I do NOT want the government or ANY do gooders forcing me to comply with any of the above. Do You?

[CCTelander]

peer reviewed journals by professionals vs lay people w/ an agenda... let me think....

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/

I agree - they shouldn't be mandatory! - we need those organs!

-t

Oh please.

I could point you to a decent number of studies done by "professionals," and published in "peer reviewed journals" like the New England Journal of Medicine and JAMA, which amount to little more than utter fabrications. Take a look at almost ANY of the CDC sponsored studies on firearms as examples.

There are also a good number of same published by "professionals" in peer reviewed law journals on the same topic.

Then there are some of the recent studies on vitamin C that are, to be charitable, disingenuous at best.

You're also assuming that those "professionals" you mentioned don't have an agenda of their own, which may or may not be the case.

Would I give greater weight to peer reviewed data over other data? It depends. So much is utterly politicized nowadays that you just can't take anything for granted.

Don't trust ANY data implicitly. ALWAYS check the facts.

[tangent4ronpaul]

But I didn't say ANYTHING about them going through the windshield. That would indeed be a pretty good indication that they weren't wearing a seat belt, but not necessarily a certainty.

HOWEVER, if they simply died from injuries sustained, that doesn't necessarily saw anything at all as to whether or not they were wearing a seat belt.

It's generally one way or the other. Passengers generally go through the windshield, drivers sometimes get caught by the steering wheel. Chest belts help but sometimes result in different injury patterns.

It depends a lot, also on speed and what they impacted.

-t

[tangent4ronpaul]

I've been riding for 20+ years now, and have biffed it both ways.

I have had a helmet save my life, and I've seen it almost kill my husband. The only reason he is with me now is because the helmet came off instead of snapping his neck.

Could you elaborate? - interesting...



It's a crap shoot man. But always wearing gear is a good way to go, because having a nurse scrub you with a brush to get the gravel out of your non-skin sucks ass.

NO SHIT! - And I've been on the scrubbing end! I agree wearing gear is GOOD!



If people want to go with out it, let them. If they eat it, well, there is more air for you and I. They know the risk, and have obviously chosen to take the chance.

My cousins introduced me to motorcycles and we did not wear helmets (I was young). It rocked! it was also an underpowered motor cycle maybe 500cc's?... Ever since that one girl came into my ER, I have refused to get on one...

I completely support your right to take that chance!

-t

[tangent4ronpaul]

your reply is going to be a pain!


Helmets can save lives and can take lives. I prefer to wear a helmet when riding but it should not be mandatory. The government has no business playing Mommy or Daddy.

Agree.


Is wearing a helmet safer ? Probably

yes.


Is owning a fire arm that will only hold one round safer? Probably.

Are you frickin nuts?????


Is driving a car that can only go 50mph safer? Probably. Are mandatory life jackets for all swimmers safer? Probably.

ehhhh...


However I do NOT want the government or ANY do gooders forcing me to comply with any of the above. Do You?

Totally agree!

-t

[tangent4ronpaul]

Oh please.

I could point you to a decent number of studies done by "professionals," and published in "peer reviewed journals" like the New England Journal of Medicine and JAMA, which amount to little more than utter fabrications. Take a look at almost ANY of the CDC sponsored studies on firearms as examples.

There are also a good number of same published by "professionals" in peer reviewed law journals on the same topic.

Then there are some of the recent studies on vitamin C that are, to be charitable, disingenuous at best.

You're also assuming that those "professionals" you mentioned don't have an agenda of their own, which may or may not be the case.

Would I give greater weight to peer reviewed data over other data? It depends. So much is utterly politicized nowadays that you just can't take anything for granted.

Don't trust ANY data implicitly. ALWAYS check the facts.

Medical journals, while they have their problems are not as corrupt as as some of the others - like legal ones. But I also know ER docs and trauma surgeons, who's personal life time experience backs up these views. Their experience dwarfs my personal experiences - but they both agree with what I have expressed.

I was involved in emergency medicine when I was younger and before I did a career change - I didn't like the politics. More like being controlled by the legal profession and "you should have let them die - we could have been liable and sued" attitude... I got out because of that.

-t

[CCTelander]

Medical journals, while they have their problems are not as corrupt as as some of the others - like legal ones. But I also know ER docs and trauma surgeons, who's personal life time experience backs up these views. Their experience dwarfs my personal experiences - but they both agree with what I have expressed.

I was involved in emergency medicine when I was younger and before I did a career change - I didn't like the politics. More like being controlled by the legal profession and "you should have let them die - we could have been liable and sued" attitude... I got out because of that.

-t

Hey, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that seat belts and helmets don't save some lives.

On the other hand, seat belt and helmet LAWS are definitely cash cows for state governments. As a result, I'd be shocked if the statistical data isn't, shall we say?, exagerated at least a little.

That's really all I was saying.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Hey, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that seat belts and helmets don't save some lives.

On the other hand, seat belt and helmet LAWS are definitely cash cows for state governments. As a result, I'd be shocked if the statistical data isn't, shall we say?, exagerated at least a little.

That's really all I was saying.

Yes - there is a bias that way. I don't think either should be mandatory. However, helmets and seat belts DO save a LOT of lives!

We don't need the nanny state mandating that we need either and using that as an excuse to generate a revenue stream.

-t

[catdd]

Helmets do not save enough lives to bother with them.

Here is some "biker propaganda" to read -
http://63.160.255.13/bikers/Abate%20Mensa.htm

[virgil47]

Helmets do not save enough lives to bother with them.

Here is some "biker propaganda" to read -
http://63.160.255.13/bikers/Abate%20Mensa.htm

I must agree with your post and the url. However I don't wear a helmet to keep from dying I wear one to protect my rugged good looks. LOL. It is the same reason I practice ATGATT. I've come to be very fond of having my flesh attached to my bones and not spread down some asphalt strip.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Helmets do not save enough lives to bother with them.

Here is some "biker propaganda" to read -
http://63.160.255.13/bikers/Abate%20Mensa.htm

:rolleyes:

[idirtify]

Yes - there is a bias that way. I don't think either should be mandatory. However, helmets and seat belts DO save a LOT of lives!

We don't need the nanny state mandating that we need either and using that as an excuse to generate a revenue stream.

-t

tangent4ronpaul,

If you truly disagree with helmet laws, it would probably be wiser if you didn’t call ones who don’t wear them “morons” and “organ donors”, and didn’t further ridicule them with “we need their organs”. Although you claim to be against nanny laws, you have not convinced me (and maybe not yourself). While it is possible to criticize those who don’t wear belts and helmets AND criticize belt and helmet laws (and remain consistent), it is technically off-topic to engage in the former in this thread. Again: I remain unconvinced of your claimed position.