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bobbyw24
07-20-2009, 02:01 PM
http://spectator.org/blog/2009/07/20/how-not-to-start-a-revolution

How Not to Start A Revolution
By W. James Antle, III on 7.20.09 @ 1:43PM

A.C. Kleinheider reports that a Ron Paul Republican who got himself elected as vice chairman of the Davidson County GOP in Tennessee decided it would be a good idea to refuse to shake GOP gubernatorial candidate Zach Wamp's hand. Why? "I am not interested in being friendly towards those who violate the Constitution," this fellow, one Matt Collins, explained.
:mad:
Now, it is possible to be counterproductive by being too accommodating of the party establishment -- like the Ron Paul delegates at the Republican National Convention who voted for John McCain instead. But this kind of behavior defeats the purpose of getting involved in practical politics altogether. As Kleinheider says:
What exactly is the point of joining "the system" just to go spit in the eye of the establishment the first chance you get? What kind of influence can one hope to have if, at every turn, one is burning bridges. Politics is as much about personal relationships as it is about policy or ideology. It is about keeping your friends close and your enemies closer. And most of all, it is about keeping from sight the knife you wish to plunge into a man's back until you are strong enough to strike the finishing blow.

Kleinheider concludes:
The Ron Paul movement is certainly not the answer to all that ills the Republican Party, but, at the very least, it is a breath of fresh air. It is a right wing movement that shows youth, vigor and potential for growth. If moderated, if absorbed into the elements of the establishment Right, one could see how it could provide some of the vision and foot soldiering for the GOP's trip out of the wilderness.
However, if the Ron Paul Republicans, the Tea party protesters and the other "growth sectors" of the Right remain content with "keeping it real" and thumbing their nose at "the man," they should not complain when their ideas are discarded and dismissed. It is not the Establishment that is keeping the "revolution" from occurring, it is the revolutionaries, through their myopic view of politics, who keep the boot on their own neck.

Amen.

Matt Collins
07-20-2009, 02:05 PM
Wow this is making the rounds quickly... I'm trying to get a response out ASAP but I'm still in the middle of drafting it.

Matt Collins
07-20-2009, 02:06 PM
Hey - how did you hear about this? I am amazed this is getting a national audience so quickly.

Deborah K
07-20-2009, 02:07 PM
What a joke! Matt is displaying that he is a principled man who bristles at those who would subvert the very foundation of our nation. He is going to get criticized for everything he does while people like this writer talk out of both sides of their mouths!

Matt made an important statement not shaking that subverter's hand. Kudos to Matt.

Dorfsmith
07-20-2009, 02:08 PM
Screw them. I wouldn't touch the slime either.

bobbyw24
07-20-2009, 02:08 PM
Hey - how did you hear about this? I am amazed this is getting a national audience so quickly.

I have a Google Alert set up for Ron Paul

Dorfsmith
07-20-2009, 02:09 PM
What a joke! Matt is displaying that he is a principled man who bristles at those who would subvert the very foundation of our nation. He is going to get criticized for everything he does while people like this writer talk out of both sides of their mouths!

Matt made an important statement not shaking that subverter's hand. Kudos to Matt.

Well said. :)

MsDoodahs
07-20-2009, 02:09 PM
Hey, wait a minute. WE are the only ones who get to slam Matt. ;)

Just kidding!

Good job, Matt!

max
07-20-2009, 02:09 PM
http://spectator.org/blog/2009/07/20/how-not-to-start-a-revolution

How Not to Start A Revolution
By W. James Antle, III on 7.20.09 @ 1:43PM

A.C. Kleinheider reports that a Ron Paul Republican who got himself elected as vice chairman of the Davidson County GOP in Tennessee decided it would be a good idea to refuse to shake GOP gubernatorial candidate Zach Wamp's hand. Why? "I am not interested in being friendly towards those who violate the Constitution," this fellow, one Matt Collins, explained.
:mad:
Now, it is possible to be counterproductive by being too accommodating of the party establishment -- like the Ron Paul delegates at the Republican National Convention who voted for John McCain instead. But this kind of behavior defeats the purpose of getting involved in practical politics altogether. As Kleinheider says:
What exactly is the point of joining "the system" just to go spit in the eye of the establishment the first chance you get? What kind of influence can one hope to have if, at every turn, one is burning bridges. Politics is as much about personal relationships as it is about policy or ideology. It is about keeping your friends close and your enemies closer. And most of all, it is about keeping from sight the knife you wish to plunge into a man's back until you are strong enough to strike the finishing blow.

Kleinheider concludes:
The Ron Paul movement is certainly not the answer to all that ills the Republican Party, but, at the very least, it is a breath of fresh air. It is a right wing movement that shows youth, vigor and potential for growth. If moderated, if absorbed into the elements of the establishment Right, one could see how it could provide some of the vision and foot soldiering for the GOP's trip out of the wilderness.
However, if the Ron Paul Republicans, the Tea party protesters and the other "growth sectors" of the Right remain content with "keeping it real" and thumbing their nose at "the man," they should not complain when their ideas are discarded and dismissed. It is not the Establishment that is keeping the "revolution" from occurring, it is the revolutionaries, through their myopic view of politics, who keep the boot on their own neck.

Amen.

TRANSLATION:

If the Paulites would only learn to sell out and water down their philosophy, the ruling elites would gladly throw them a crumb or two.

torchbearer
07-20-2009, 02:11 PM
TRANSLATION:

If the Paulites would only learn to sell out and water down their philosophy, the ruling elites would gladly throw them a crumb or two.

excellent translation.
matt should use this in his rebuttal.

Deborah K
07-20-2009, 02:12 PM
TRANSLATION:

If the Paulites would only learn to sell out and water down their philosophy, the ruling elites would gladly throw them a crumb or two.

^ This!!

torchbearer
07-20-2009, 02:12 PM
Hey, wait a minute. WE are the only ones who get to slam Matt. ;)

Just kidding!

Good job, Matt!

hahaha. yup.
I can slam on matt because he's my brother. but these shills better watch it or they will be writing their blogs from a hospital room.

http://www.savateaustralia.com/images/Self Defence/fig48.jpg

JoshLowry
07-20-2009, 02:12 PM
Add comments where you can folks.

I'm copying your comment Max.

Keep standing tall Matt! You should use Max's comment in your rebuttal.

torchbearer
07-20-2009, 02:14 PM
Add comments where you can folks.

I'm copying your comment Max.

Keep standing tall Matt! You should use Max's comment in your rebuttal.

Yes, Stand tall matt!

IPSecure
07-20-2009, 02:17 PM
-- like the Ron Paul delegates at the Republican National Convention who voted for John McCain instead.???

Go Matt!

0zzy
07-20-2009, 02:17 PM
I kinda of agree. Why can you not shake hands with people that disagree with you? If Dennis Kucinich offered you a handshake you may have very well of took it, would you not?

I dono, what do I know.

acptulsa
07-20-2009, 02:18 PM
And if we 'keep it real' and 'thumb our noses at the man' who violates his oath of office, and our ideas don't get rejected out of hand, should they be surprised?

Keep tipping your hands, guys. You're inflammatory and you're not doing a good job of disguising your actual agenda. Maybe you should think before you flame us?

brandon
07-20-2009, 02:23 PM
There is a difference between watering down your philosophy and shaking someones hand.

I respect your stand Matt. But shaking someone's hand isn't that big of a deal.

Deborah K
07-20-2009, 02:27 PM
There is a difference between watering down your philosophy and shaking someones hand.

I respect your stand Matt. But shaking someone's hand isn't that big of a deal.

If he had, he wouldn't have gotten any press on it and we wouldn't be talking about it. So in that sense, it's a VERY big deal.

TonySutton
07-20-2009, 02:28 PM
Sometimes you need to send a message, I think Matt did a good job!

ClayTrainor
07-20-2009, 02:36 PM
excellent translation.
matt should use this in his rebuttal.

i 2nd that, Matt. That is a brilliant one liner.

dannno
07-20-2009, 02:48 PM
Go Matt!!

Brian Defferding
07-20-2009, 02:56 PM
TRANSLATION:

If the Paulites would only learn to sell out and water down their philosophy, the ruling elites would gladly throw them a crumb or two.

Well said.

And, go Matt!

Deborah K
07-20-2009, 03:03 PM
Apparently the writer of this blog is reading our responses to his article on the site. He responded and I just gave him a whack. Check it out.

torchbearer
07-20-2009, 03:09 PM
Apparently the writer of this blog is reading our responses to his article on the site. He responded and I just gave him a whack. Check it out.

Hey maw! I'm on the internets!

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/brendan13_photo/buckwheat/welcome.jpg

Anti Federalist
07-20-2009, 03:12 PM
(shameless cross post)

From the article:


The Ron Paul movement is certainly not the answer to all that ills the Republican Party, but, at the very least, it is a breath of fresh air. It is a right wing movement that shows youth, vigor and potential for growth. If moderated, if absorbed into the elements of the establishment Right, one could see how it could provide some of the vision and foot soldiering for the GOP's trip out of the wilderness.

If you assimilate into the Borg, if you play nice, if you make sure you say and do and write and act in no way outside the "polite norms", you too will become "mainstream" and be able to partake in all the all benefits that accrue to having that label.

All that it requires is to jettison your soul, your heart and your principles.

*yawn*

Heard this story before, the only reason it's being written is because the hacks are nervous.

Good for Matt.

Michigan11
07-20-2009, 03:31 PM
What a joke! Matt is displaying that he is a principled man who bristles at those who would subvert the very foundation of our nation. He is going to get criticized for everything he does while people like this writer talk out of both sides of their mouths!

Matt made an important statement not shaking that subverter's hand. Kudos to Matt.

Right On!

Good job Matt...

+1776

IPSecure
07-20-2009, 03:44 PM
Matt made an important statement not shaking that subverter's hand. Kudos to Matt.

Saudi's and Russians refuse to shake Obama's hand

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=200605


Hmmmm...

torchbearer
07-20-2009, 03:46 PM
Saudi's and Russians refuse to shake Obama's hand

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=200605


Hmmmm...

I think Matt is onto something.
I vow not to shake the hands of someone who has betrayed our constitution. Never.
Nunca!

disorderlyvision
07-20-2009, 03:47 PM
Apparently the writer of this blog is reading our responses to his article on the site. He responded and I just gave him a whack. Check it out.


His response:


W. James Antle III| 7.20.09 @ 4:45PM
The point that some of you seem to be missing is that Ron Paul consistently stands up for his principles but also behaves like a gentleman. He even shook Rudy Giuliani's hand. Yes, even the Ron Paul movement could use more Ron Paul clones.

brandon
07-20-2009, 04:12 PM
^^Good point he made

torchbearer
07-20-2009, 04:14 PM
^^Good point he made

The reason I support Peter Schiff is because I believe him to be more aggressive than humble/polite Ron.
I love Ron, but i'm not as nice as he is- but I still believe in the constitution. the same as he.

brandon
07-20-2009, 04:24 PM
The reason I support Peter Schiff is because I believe him to be more aggressive than humble/polite Ron.
I love Ron, but i'm not as nice as he is- but I still believe in the constitution. the same as he.

I hear ya.

I'm more of a Paul guy than a Schiff guy myself. Don't get me wrong, I already donated to Schiff, but his huge ego sometimes gets on my nerves.

I love the way Paul handles himself.

Bruno
07-20-2009, 04:28 PM
WE ARE NOT RON PAUL CLONES.

that's the bottom line. Matt makes his own decisions.

specsaregood
07-20-2009, 04:35 PM
^^Good point he made

Eh, I'd disagree.
What has Guilianni done directly to RP to violate the constitution, steal from his pocket or in other ways done harm to RP? Did RP shake his hand after the petulant behavior by Guilianni at the debates, I don't remember.

Whereas, Zach Wamp HAS done things that directly negatively impacted Matt and all of us.

Edit: I can understand shaking the hand of someone you simply disagree with; BUT I can also see NOT shaking the hand of somebody that has directly harmed you in some way.

Cowlesy
07-20-2009, 04:39 PM
TRANSLATION:

If the Paulites would only learn to sell out and water down their philosophy, the ruling elites would gladly throw them a crumb or two.

I agree.


There is a difference between watering down your philosophy and shaking someones hand.

I respect your stand Matt. But shaking someone's hand isn't that big of a deal.

I agree here too.


WE ARE NOT RON PAUL CLONES.

that's the bottom line. Matt makes his own decisions.

And this one.

I think not shaking someone's hand is immature. You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar. At the same time, this little blog post is fairly immature in its pontification about how "Ron Paul Republicans" or, "Traditional Conservatives" should act.

Even though Matt may drive us nuts sometimes, and clearly "the establishment" guys, I have no doubt in his heart he works extremely hard for the TRADITIONAL republican principles.

Being a sheepdog of traditional republican values does not always mean you need to bear your metaphorical teeth.

dannno
07-20-2009, 04:47 PM
Diversify diversify diversify..

Pushing any of them out of the movement is a bad thing.

Let them all stick to their guns.

We need Ron Paulazols, Peter Schiffnickles and Matt Colonacausts in DC.

MikeStanart
07-20-2009, 05:49 PM
If he had, he wouldn't have gotten any press on it and we wouldn't be talking about it. So in that sense, it's a VERY big deal.

At first I thought it was silly to not shake someone's hand; but now I see the genius behind Matt's political move. You're absolutely right, Deborah...had the hand been shaken, the message would have never been exposed.

disorderlyvision
07-20-2009, 07:20 PM
What has Guilianni done directly to RP to violate the constitution, .

Are you serious?!? What has Guilianni done that hasn't violated the constitution?:eek:
:rolleyes:

specsaregood
07-20-2009, 08:02 PM
Are you serious?!? What has Guilianni done that hasn't violated the constitution?:eek:
:rolleyes:

Details please? I have not lived under this thumb as mayor. Do you have a list? And far as I know he has never been a part of an legislative branch of govt.

Regardless, that's not what I said. I said has he done anything directly to RP.

BarryDonegan
07-20-2009, 08:09 PM
The situation wasn't as rude as this hit piece makes it sound. We thanked Zach Wamp for voting for HR1207 and Matt just refused to shake his hand on rhetoric alone.
Matt, then, as should any other grassroots activist in any party, expressed his current views on the governors race in his blog, using the 1st Amendment he is fighting to keep.

To be fair, Zach Wamp said we should do "more than Audit the Fed", which was good talk, but he's got a fresh bailout vote on his lips too, so you have to see some action before you give him strong approval. Holding the feet to the fire of your elected officials improves how they vote in the future.

This is also a win/win for the GOP in Nashville, as this city has been in Democrat control since the Civil War and if there is disapproval of the government rumbling here, which there is, this portrayal in the Democrat owned City Paper will actually make us look better. We will be viewed as young angry upstarts to the freshly disappointed Obama voter who still has no job.

Matt Collins
07-21-2009, 12:40 AM
The situation wasn't as rude as this hit piece makes it sound. We thanked Zach Wamp for voting for HR1207 and Matt just refused to shake his hand on rhetoric alone.
Matt, then, as should any other grassroots activist in any party, expressed his current views on the governors race in his blog, using the 1st Amendment he is fighting to keep.

To be fair, Zach Wamp said we should do "more than Audit the Fed", which was good talk, but he's got a fresh bailout vote on his lips too, so you have to see some action before you give him strong approval. Holding the feet to the fire of your elected officials improves how they vote in the future. Exactly, and as mentioned in my original blog (http://www.campaignforliberty.com/blog.php?view=21733), I even complimented Rep Wamp on his HR1207 position , thanked him for his support, and told him I appreciated it and I sincerely meant it. But one or even multiple positive acts do not make up for such a blatant violation of the Constitution and what is outright theft.

And for those who don't know Barry he is a good friend in the local liberty movement, a fellow Ron Paul Republican (he's a Director-At-Large of the Nashville GOP), and was the person who Rep Wamp apologized to (http://digg.com/politics/Congressman_Zack_Wamp_Apologizes_for_Bailout_Vote) regarding the bailout.

Matt Collins
07-21-2009, 12:43 AM
I have a Google Alert set up for Ron PaulAhhh... that's how so many people found out. Apparently the American Spectator read by many. People I don't even know have been e-mailng and sending Facebook messages to me about this.

Matt Collins
07-21-2009, 12:45 AM
If he had, he wouldn't have gotten any press on it and we wouldn't be talking about it. So in that sense, it's a VERY big deal.


At first I thought it was silly to not shake someone's hand; but now I see the genius behind Matt's political move. You're absolutely right, Deborah...had the hand been shaken, the message would have never been exposed.

Thank you for your compliments.

Matt Collins
07-21-2009, 12:57 AM
I think not shaking someone's hand is immature. You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar. I see it as a matter of respect. I don't respect someone who has stolen money from me, violated the Constitution, broken the trust of the voters, failed to uphold their sworn oath, and then has the audacity to come back and ask for my vote to elevate them to a higher position of power.


Even though Matt may drive us nuts sometimes, and clearly "the establishment" guys, I have no doubt in his heart he works extremely hard for the TRADITIONAL republican principles.Heh heh heh.... thanks for the compliment


Being a sheepdog of traditional republican values does not always mean you need to bear your metaphorical teeth.I agree, but I also think it is time that we start drawing a line and putting our foot down.

Matt Collins
07-21-2009, 01:00 AM
I think Matt is onto something.
I vow not to shake the hands of someone who has betrayed our constitution. Never. Nunca!Heh... guess I've started something, eh? ;)

rockandrollsouls
07-21-2009, 06:05 AM
In my opinion, the refusal of a cordial handshake resonates more on a personal level than a political level.

Leave the issues for a debate or a discussion; you're not going to change minds by being blatantly rude.

Do you refuse to visit a family member because they have different political views? Do you look down on people because of their opinions? That's the vibe I get from many here.

You respect people for being human; there isn't a reason to be unfriendly, uninviting, and unapproachable. When respect is present, you can begin to change minds and make a difference.

Forgive me for being brash here, but being a complete and total jackass is counterproductive. I'm willing to wager that if I befriend someone, I can sway them much more easily than if we were on bad terms.

pacelli
07-21-2009, 07:02 AM
http://www.oldsaltblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/hold_fast-150x84.jpg

acptulsa
07-21-2009, 07:08 AM
Forgive me for being brash here, but being a complete and total jackass is counterproductive. I'm willing to wager that if I befriend someone, I can sway them much more easily than if we were on bad terms.

True, but this wasn't some civilian, it was a guy who took an oath and violated it. Someone who could very easily have ulterior motives in his rationale, and probably does.

Essentially, I agree that we should maintain all the civility and comity we can. That said, it's very educational to see one of us react to unconstitutional votes and oath breaking, which causes no outrage in the media, and then see them rise to a fevered pitch of indignation because someone didn't stick their hand out to be shaken. Strange priorities.

LittleLightShining
07-21-2009, 07:26 AM
Matt, how are your local committee members reacting to this?

Elwar
07-21-2009, 08:24 AM
From what I see, Matt has solidified himself as a Ron Paul Republican solely based upon getting a hit piece written about him because he stands up for his principles. In that way he is a "Ron Paul clone".

torchbearer
07-21-2009, 08:49 AM
From what I see, Matt has solidified himself as a Ron Paul Republican solely based upon getting a hit piece written about him because he stands up for his principles. In that way he is a "Ron Paul clone".

+1.
They can't attack us on the issues, so they have to look for other things.

rockandrollsouls
07-21-2009, 09:00 AM
From what I see, Matt has solidified himself as a Ron Paul Republican solely based upon getting a hit piece written about him because he stands up for his principles. In that way he is a "Ron Paul clone".

Acting like a rude little child isn't standing up for principles; that's not what the article was written about. It was written as a character attack, and it's completely justified and they have Collins hammered there.

You want a hit-piece based upon principle? He should challenge the candidate to a policy discussion, debate, or conference to discuss the direction of the party and his actions as a principled, staunch republican. In that way, Collins can be viewed as a torch bearer for truly republican ideals.

Rejecting a handshake and acting like a rude little kid is in no way, shape, or form standing up for republican ideals. Learn to differentiate ;).

torchbearer
07-21-2009, 09:02 AM
Acting like a rude little child isn't standing up for principles; that's not what the article was written about. It was written as a character attack, and it's completely justified and they have Collins hammered there.

You want a hit-piece based upon principle? He should challenge the candidate to a policy discussion, debate, or conference to discuss the direction of the party and his actions as a principled, staunch republican. In that way, Collins can be viewed as a torch bearer for truly republican ideals.

Rejecting a handshake and acting like a rude little kid is in no way, shape, or form standing up for republican ideals. Learn to differentiate ;).

and you would have considered Ben Franklin an asshole, because he wouldn't waste his words on you if you said 'hello'. The man didn't believe in idle chatter.

TruthisTreason
07-21-2009, 09:03 AM
Acting like a rude little child isn't standing up for principles; that's not what the article was written about. It was written as a character attack, and it's completely justified and they have Collins hammered there.

You want a hit-piece based upon principle? He should challenge the candidate to a policy discussion, debate, or conference to discuss the direction of the party and his actions as a principled, staunch republican. In that way, Collins can be viewed as a torch bearer for truly republican ideals.

Rejecting a handshake and acting like a rude little kid is in no way, shape, or form standing up for republican ideals. Learn to differentiate ;).

Yes, I have no problem shaking the hand of the enemy (rep.. hacks), it's the best way to get real close to them...:D

And they can't win without us, and we can't win without them.:o

rockandrollsouls
07-21-2009, 09:08 AM
and you would have considered Ben Franklin an asshole, because he wouldn't waste his words on you if you said 'hello'. The man didn't believe in idle chatter.

And Franklin didn't accomplish his goals alone...not to mention you weren't around to experience his personality, nor was anyone else in recent history. He had some significant support....it seems like a lot of people don't like Matt and it's mostly because he comes off as a jerk.

acptulsa
07-21-2009, 09:13 AM
Yes, I have no problem shaking the hand of the enemy (rep.. hacks), it's the best way to get real close to them...:D

And they can't win without us, and we can't win without them.:o

With the mentality that violating the Constitution isn't a big deal, but refusing a proffered hand is, though, we obviously have our work cut out for us demonstrating to them that we've drawn a line in the sand.

Chester Copperpot
07-21-2009, 09:14 AM
Matt.. good stuff man really...

Matt Collins
07-21-2009, 09:21 AM
Do you refuse to visit a family member because they have different political views? Do you look down on people because of their opinions? Again, none of my family members are in a position to steal from me "legally".


I'm willing to wager that if I befriend someone, I can sway them much more easily than if we were on bad terms.This isn't about swaying opinions, it's about keeping those who violate the Constitution from gaining more power by getting voted into a higher office.

Matt Collins
07-21-2009, 09:22 AM
Matt, how are your local committee members reacting to this?Not sure. We'll find out soon.

rockandrollsouls
07-21-2009, 09:26 AM
Again, none of my family members are in a position to steal from me "legally".

This isn't about swaying opinions, it's about keeping those who violate the Constitution from gaining more power by getting voted into a higher office.

Let me lay it out to you plainly.

You're not accomplishing ANYTHING by being a pompous jackass. And, as far as I'm concerned, you're not in the position to be a jerk to this guy when you haven't invited him to any form of discussion or debate. YOU may be in a new position of power, but YOU haven't made an effort to convert others in the party. You look down on them, treat them like garbage, and isolate them from an embracing freedom movement because you're overblown with pride. You give those of us that want to work with others and help them see the light a bad name.

georgiaboy
07-21-2009, 09:35 AM
no handshakes for bailouters. i like it.

TruthisTreason
07-21-2009, 09:40 AM
not sure. We'll find out soon.
lol!

Aratus
07-21-2009, 09:44 AM
Matt, how are your local committee members reacting to this?


Not sure. We'll find out soon.

dr. rand paul is a very polite man! ---matt collins, your explanations do say
why this hit piece is a hatchet jobbie bespeaking of many more to follow!
you are in a good humour and taking all this in and seeing the humor
inside the same! we all now enter the political fray that is multi-facetted
and multi-sided. wheat from chaff. jack conway still sits with 1.3 million
greenbacks and has spent some of the same. he who once went to NC
on a luncheon junket! ms. darlene fitzgerald price again wonders where
she whistleblower stands inside our vast universe of potentialities, she
also wants to "tea leave" read the voters well long ahead of november
of 2010. dare a meantion a lt-gov who ought to run for governor? sorta?

dr. rand paul is a very polite man! ---alan keyes likes that there johnson
fellow and was at a fundraising dinner for the same. advice and consent, yes!
evidently mr. johnson got pointers on how to run for a senate seat. we now
come to trey grayson and WHOSE senate seat he ought to run for! hint... hint
hint...hint... trey... think of how long mitch mcconnell has served the voters of
KY, and how long you have to wait until a certain said senate race. dear dear
dear trey grayon... adorable YOUNG trey grayson... ask dear OLD mitch mcconnell
for some MORE pointers... sit on the advice for say five or eleven years... and THEN
RUN FULL STEAM, FULL BLAST! Aratus adroitly thinks darlene fitzgerald price and
dr. rand paul just might have a string of debates BETWEEN august and october of 2010...

Todd
07-21-2009, 09:46 AM
I don't know....Would I shake hands with someone who flushed my children's future down the toilet? ;)

Aratus
07-21-2009, 09:49 AM
who or what are front runners? oh! the wee people and pots of gold! all at the end of a rainbow!
in the merrie isle's auld tales, the wee people who didst merrily boast about the biggest pot of gold
often lost or decreased the same through the fine art of communicating to one's kith and kin!:D

RCA
07-21-2009, 09:50 AM
Shaking hands isn't compromising, imho.

Aratus
07-21-2009, 09:52 AM
life always has more to it than the merrie art of accumulating or stealing pots of gold.
we now pause and explain donnybrooks, near all these bonnie brooks... and how to avoid being
epicenter inside a donnybrook beside a bonnie brook. matt collins, thee with good wit clearly is sending
the tennis ball into the other court, with a smashing good serve, most merrily metaphorically.

Aratus
07-21-2009, 09:56 AM
Shaking hands isn't compromising, imho.


Matt Collins, were HE the CONTENDER, the CANDIDATE... he'd have to LEARN the fine art
of the ancient McKINLEY handshake. insted, the bucko is merely only inside thah sweet
sweat spot sorta akin to where KARL ROVE would be... were all about us to be NEO-CON!


Rand... you is polite! methinks your ABLE number two is slightly slightly a tad rude... sorta...
but this all... this historic flapdoddle is VERY early in the game... we indeed adroitly truely
need to be DEEPER inside this all for us all to ponder and wonder if our own Matt Collins should...



A-P-O-L-O-G-I-S-E ...sorta! maybe... somewhat... perhaps... sorta... anyway... something like that!
well...A-N-Y-W-A-Y ...you know... the mass media... all these soundbytes... the very wise & ancient rules
its not that the fellow whose hand he done don't shook is a BAD PERSON... insted... this went mass media


MASS MEDIA? the purple shamrock definition inside the LAST HURRAH? they wuz asomething that had the ward
heelers swearing up all these expletive deleated words as the political landscape shifted about... cautiously
why the swears and curses you ask??? the entire FIELD of HONOR changed in that tyme... some do say sadly...


.

stu2002
07-21-2009, 11:04 AM
Go Matt Go!!!

Todd
07-21-2009, 12:28 PM
Eh, I'd disagree.
What has Guilianni done directly to RP to violate the constitution, steal from his pocket or in other ways done harm to RP? Did RP shake his hand after the petulant behavior by Guilianni at the debates, I don't remember.

Whereas, Zach Wamp HAS done things that directly negatively impacted Matt and all of us.

Edit: I can understand shaking the hand of someone you simply disagree with; BUT I can also see NOT shaking the hand of somebody that has directly harmed you in some way.

Sounds very "Paul like" to me.


Paul said he has not met with Obama, pointing out he met with President George W. Bush in 2001: “We had a small group talk about [healthcare]. But soon after that, the war started, and that was . [I]I was not going to break bread with people who do those kind of things.”

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/rep.-paul--the-reluctant-leader-of-a-still-energized-grassroots-movement-2009-07-20.html

speciallyblend
07-21-2009, 01:36 PM
Let me lay it out to you plainly.

You're not accomplishing ANYTHING by being a pompous jackass. And, as far as I'm concerned, you're not in the position to be a jerk to this guy when you haven't invited him to any form of discussion or debate. YOU may be in a new position of power, but YOU haven't made an effort to convert others in the party. You look down on them, treat them like garbage, and isolate them from an embracing freedom movement because you're overblown with pride. You give those of us that want to work with others and help them see the light a bad name.

the devil cannot see the light. he will just make you think he saw the light and then stomp you out! do not think some of these gop folks are on our side. they are gonna try to hi-jack the ron paul message. then they will chew it up and spit it out to something we never intended!

you will not be able to convert everyone! the fact is the gop needs to lose a few more neo-cons. if you think converting neo-cons is the way! you might be able to get some of them,but trying to convert the devil is not going to happen. i predict the gop will fall alot further before it gains. they still are not listening to Ron Paul! /most in the gop talk doublespeak. their goal is to lure us in and then ignore us as they have the last several yrs!

in my eyes matt did nothing wrong!

I know one thing i will not vote for neo-cons posers trying to be like Ron Paul. The gop has a few more years if not longer before .they actually wake up! the gop has no credibility left. the only people who can save the gop now are the ron paul supporters! if the neo-cons stop them. then i bet the gop will be a 3rd party!

RON PAUL 2012

remember the gop had its chance to change in the last 4 yrs and the gop blew it. I blame the gop for what they did to Ron Paul and my vote will keep these neo-con republicans in check until the day i die! the gop will deserve exactly what they get for alienating me and many republicans in Colorado! you do not reward corruption and the gop is the definition of corruption right along with the dnc!

Matt Collins
07-21-2009, 02:27 PM
Here is my response:


http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=2221413 (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=2221413)

Imperial
07-21-2009, 02:54 PM
There are way too many people who voted for bailouts to do this. We will get nowehere by refusing to even interact with those we disagree with us, who obviously would be a majority...

rockandrollsouls
07-21-2009, 05:22 PM
Here is my response:


http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=2221413 (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=2221413)

The attempt to justify your personality flaws is, for the most part, futile. You have a habit of isolating individuals in positions that could be greatly beneficial to us if you took 5 minutes to sit down with them and discuss your opinions and feelings.

You haven't even attempted to discuss policy with this guy; for all you know, by being approachable and friendly you may change some big minds and throttle yourself to the forefront of your state party...a big victory for freedom. Rather, you burn your bridges immediately.

Consider this scenario; should I not shake your hand now, or hate you, because you affected my children's future by thwarting a chance to change the mind of high profile party members? There's a pretty good chance that you gave this movement and its ideals a bad standing with that man, and if he rejects ideal because of your poor representation of what we are about, by using your logic you should be just as guilty.

purplechoe
07-21-2009, 05:34 PM
The attempt to justify your personality flaws

Did you ever meet the man? Personality flaws? I could say the same about you. What you call reaching out I call selling out. Oh and my family has been in the liberty fight for generations. My grandfather fought the Nazzis in Poland and my father fough the commies through "Solidarnosc". You have no idea what kind of people you are dealing with (central planners and their useful idiots).

Go shake hands with Stalin while you're at it. :rolleyes: I mean we have to work together if we want to win, right? You're one of those useful "you know what". :rolleyes:

LittleLightShining
07-21-2009, 05:36 PM
Not sure. We'll find out soon. Please keep us posted on this. This is very important for those of us who are working within our local GOP committees.


Matt Collins, were HE the CONTENDER, the CANDIDATE... he'd have to LEARN the fine art
of the ancient McKINLEY handshake. insted, the bucko is merely only inside thah sweet
sweat spot sorta akin to where KARL ROVE would be... were all about us to be NEO-CON!


Rand... you is polite! methinks your ABLE number two is slightly slightly a tad rude... sorta...
but this all... this historic flapdoddle is VERY early in the game... we indeed adroitly truely
need to be DEEPER inside this all for us all to ponder and wonder if our own Matt Collins should...



A-P-O-L-O-G-I-S-E ...sorta! maybe... somewhat... perhaps... sorta... anyway... something like that!
well...A-N-Y-W-A-Y ...you know... the mass media... all these soundbytes... the very wise & ancient rules
its not that the fellow whose hand he done don't shook is a BAD PERSON... insted... this went mass media


MASS MEDIA? the purple shamrock definition inside the LAST HURRAH? they wuz asomething that had the ward
heelers swearing up all these expletive deleated words as the political landscape shifted about... cautiously
why the swears and curses you ask??? the entire FIELD of HONOR changed in that tyme... some do say sadly...


.Aratus also has a good point. This may end up helping Rand, especially if the committee members support you (you know, the regular people who attend not the party players as it's indicative of the way most of the rank and file are going to go). If the good old boys turn on you the battle is going to be a lot harder. Stick to your guns, though. Your response was fantastic. Principle not personality!

tonesforjonesbones
07-21-2009, 05:41 PM
well..when glenn beck called us domestic terrorists during the campaign I didn't shake his hand at his book signing either..I pointed to my Ron Paul t shirt and told him I wasn't a terrorist. he said " I DID NOT SAY THAT". so ...good job Matt for standing on your principles. tones

(and ya'll know I'm a glenn beck worshiper)

Objectivist
07-21-2009, 05:57 PM
Way to go Mr. Collins, there is honor in your words.:cool:

Mandrik
07-21-2009, 06:08 PM
I always wanted to see Ron Paul stand up and maybe not be so nice when he needed to be. That was one of my biggest complaints about him. I know a lot disagree. Don't get me wrong, I love the man for who he is, and he just isn't that type of person. He does have the fire & the principals, and that is why we all care so much about him. We do need people who will stand up and yell when it is needed, even if it is shocking to others. Maybe Matt went too far by not shaking someone's hand. Maybe he didn't go far enough. What I do know is these people in power need to see our rage & our anger in a peaceful form. How we handle that as individuals is up to us.

Bottom line: Smiles & hand shakes are nice enough, but there does come a time when we have to say enough is enough. If our actions result in negative comments from others, than so be it.

Objectivist
07-21-2009, 06:26 PM
I always wanted to see Ron Paul stand up and maybe not be so nice when he needed to be. That was one of my biggest complaints about him. I know a lot disagree. Don't get me wrong, I love the man for who he is, and he just isn't that type of person. He does have the fire & the principals, and that is why we all care so much about him. We do need people who will stand up and yell when it is needed, even if it is shocking to others. Maybe Matt went too far by not shaking someone's hand. Maybe he didn't go far enough. What I do know is these people in power need to see our rage & our anger in a peaceful form. How we handle that as individuals is up to us.

Bottom line: Smiles & hand shakes are nice enough, but there does come a time when we have to say enough is enough. If our actions result in negative comments from others, than so be it.

That's why he's in office and I'll never be...

speciallyblend
07-21-2009, 06:30 PM
The attempt to justify your personality flaws is, for the most part, futile. You have a habit of isolating individuals in positions that could be greatly beneficial to us if you took 5 minutes to sit down with them and discuss your opinions and feelings.

You haven't even attempted to discuss policy with this guy; for all you know, by being approachable and friendly you may change some big minds and throttle yourself to the forefront of your state party...a big victory for freedom. Rather, you burn your bridges immediately.

Consider this scenario; should I not shake your hand now, or hate you, because you affected my children's future by thwarting a chance to change the mind of high profile party members? There's a pretty good chance that you gave this movement and its ideals a bad standing with that man, and if he rejects ideal because of your poor representation of what we are about, by using your logic you should be just as guilty.

code for deal with the devil!

LibertyEagle
07-21-2009, 06:39 PM
I see rockandrollsoul's point, but you know what Matt, you are the one who got out there, did the hard work to even be in this position, so I respect your call.

speciallyblend
07-21-2009, 06:57 PM
I see rockandrollsoul's point, but you know what Matt, you are the one who got out there, did the hard work to even be in this position, so I respect your call.

i thought matt's response was respectful!

speciallyblend
07-21-2009, 07:14 PM
"rank-and-file should have done years ago. In fact if someone is a Republican and supports big government, then they need to ask themselves if they are indeed the correct Party"


insert( in) between indeed the correct party!

i know folks gotta be laughing . that lil ole me is actually correcting someone!:)

i am the King of internet ebonics:)

angelatc
07-21-2009, 07:36 PM
I see rockandrollsoul's point, but you know what Matt, you are the one who got out there, did the hard work to even be in this position, so I respect your call.

That's about how I see it.

Mandrik
07-21-2009, 07:44 PM
That's about how I see it.

Yeah, really. Who are we to tell him how to behave? He did all the work to get to where he is. We can try to Monday morning QB his situation from our computers, or we can go out and try to make a difference. I salute you, Matt, for your effort.

rockandrollsouls
07-21-2009, 07:54 PM
Did you ever meet the man? Personality flaws? I could say the same about you. What you call reaching out I call selling out. Oh and my family has been in the liberty fight for generations. My grandfather fought the Nazzis in Poland and my father fough the commies through "Solidarnosc". You have no idea what kind of people you are dealing with (central planners and their useful idiots).

Go shake hands with Stalin while you're at it. :rolleyes: I mean we have to work together if we want to win, right? You're one of those useful "you know what". :rolleyes:

This isn't the first time he has been critiqued for his unapproachable personality, and the rest of my assessment is still valid (I like how you refuse to acknowledge or discuss it.) And how do you mean saying the same about me? You clearly didn't take the time to read my post; you're far too defensive. I suggested inviting the candidate to a policy discussion or debate? How is that selling out? That's making more progress than being a jerk-off and refusing to associate with someone. Let me ask you; what changes more minds? Refusing to associate with those we disagree with so that they may not change and isolating them, or attempting to sway them through intelligent discussion? I can tell you this with certainty; we alone are not enough to bring a constitutional America back. You are completely delusional if you think a forum of, maybe one thousand, loosely knit people are able to change an entire country.

And don't think your opinion is, somehow, more valid than mine because your relatives fought in foreign affairs. I have polish lineage that was involved in those issues; that has nothing to do with what we are discussing. My family fought Nazis, my family was drafted here, my family volunteered for the military....don't preach to me about fighting for freedom. Don't tell me I have no idea what I'm "dealing with," you arrogant prick. Your argument has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion.

In conclusion, I suggest you shut your sarcastic mouth, because you're rationale is nothing but an "I think I can one up you so your opinion doesn't matter" post.

How about you show me how being an arrogant, rude little child furthers the cause of liberty. Collins could have debated policy or worked for freedom....that's the real way to bring about change and further the freedom agenda. Refusing to shake a hand does absolutely nothing of the sort; show me how it changes minds....it simply doesn't.

rockandrollsouls
07-21-2009, 08:03 PM
I see rockandrollsoul's point, but you know what Matt, you are the one who got out there, did the hard work to even be in this position, so I respect your call.

And what is he doing in this position to further liberty? Acting like a braying jackass? Way to utilize a position of power to further a freedom agenda.

He may have been elected to a small position of power....but it appears as if he did it to act like a "holier than thou, know more than you, refuse to associate with others" kind of person. Wasn't the goal of getting into the position to expand freedom?

What headline do you want to see? Matt Collins - rude, isolationist jerk or Matt Collins - rebuilding and returning the GOP to its roots? You're only going to get the second if you engage other members of the GOP and sway them.

Finally, Matt's marginal position isn't as powerful as you think. It's not like he's the president refusing to negotiate with a runaway congress. He's dooming himself, and freedom, to failure in my opinion. There are other ways to further freedom than being elected to a small, local position and then acting like a power hungry self righteous prick once there.

Anyway, if you guys think refusing a handshake is such a big deal and noble act, you've got a long way to go. Matt has much more he could and should be doing but isn't. However that isn't being discussed or brought up. Apparently, a lack of manners trumps any real effort to further liberty.

If Ron had acted like Matt and refused to embrace those that he didn't agree with, we wouldn't have over 270 cosponsors for H.R. 1207....when you act like Collins you get the "Mike Gravel" affect....but whatever. Your call. I'll work with my method and get more done and you can be a grouch.

speciallyblend
07-21-2009, 08:04 PM
Yeah, really. Who are we to tell him how to behave? He did all the work to get to where he is. We can try to Monday morning QB his situation from our computers, or we can go out and try to make a difference. I salute you, Matt, for your effort.

second that motion!

speciallyblend
07-21-2009, 08:05 PM
And what is he doing in this position to further liberty? Acting like a braying jackass? Way to utilize a position of power to further a freedom agenda.

He may have been elected to a small position of power....but it appears as if he did it to act like a "holier than thou, know more than you, refuse to associate with others" kind of person. Wasn't the goal of getting into the position to expand freedom?

What headline do you want to see? Matt Collins - rude, isolationist jerk or Matt Collins - rebuilding and returning the GOP to its roots? You're only going to get the second if you engage other members of the GOP and sway them.

Finally, Matt's marginal position isn't as powerful as you think. It's not like he's the president refusing to negotiate with a runaway congress. He's dooming himself, and freedom, to failure in my opinion. There are other ways to further freedom than being elected to a small, local position and then acting like a power hungry self righteous prick once there.

Anyway, if you guys think refusing a handshake is such a big deal and noble act, you've got a long way to go. Matt has much more he could and should be doing but isn't. However that isn't being discussed or brought up. Apparently, a lack of manners trumps any real effort to further liberty.

If Ron had acted like Matt and refused to embrace those that he didn't agree with, we wouldn't have over 270 cosponsors for H.R. 1207....when you act like Collins you get the "Mike Gravel" affect....but whatever. Your call. I'll work with my method and get more done and you can be a grouch.

what position do you hold in the gop ,just curious??

rockandrollsouls
07-21-2009, 08:11 PM
what position do you hold in the gop ,just curious??

Not a small, local office, but I have and continue to do much in other ways, and I have entertained the prospect of running for congress in the past and may still do so. I have the money.

Apparently, you can't discuss the valid points in my argument, though. Just sarcastic comments :rolleyes:. Not unlike you though, speciallyblend.

rockandrollsouls
07-21-2009, 08:14 PM
Yeah, really. Who are we to tell him how to behave? He did all the work to get to where he is. We can try to Monday morning QB his situation from our computers, or we can go out and try to make a difference. I salute you, Matt, for your effort.

Many of us do make a difference. See my previous posts. Refusing a handshake isn't making a difference, and one can make a difference even if they don't hold a small office. Why isn't Collins inviting the establishment hacks for policy discussion or debate? Why isn't he attempting to sway them? He should be faulted for not doing enough! Collins isn't even making an attempt to change anything! What, do you think everything will change because a guy who says he's pro liberty sits in office and does nothing else? Being idle doesn't accomplish anything.

Furthermore, I should add that you won't find many people that were admired throughout history for being pompous and self righteous. Who are the ones that have the best reputations? I won't give you the answer, but I can tell you people like Mike Gravel aren't high on the list....

Mandrik
07-21-2009, 08:16 PM
I think a lot of us are saying that what Matt does is what Matt does. He is who he is, and we're not going to try to change that. He obviously is doing something right to have gotten to where he is. Maybe I would have acted differently in his situation. Maybe not. I don't know, because I'm not in his situation. Peter Schiff has some things to him that really annoying the shit out of me (like cutting people off while they are talking during Liberty Watch), but he's obviously doing something right. Ron Paul is too nice IMO, but he's definitely doing something right.

We're all different. If not shaking someones hand turns out to be the kiss of death then at the very least we can all learn from his mistake (if it turns out to be one).

rockandrollsouls
07-21-2009, 08:22 PM
I think a lot of us are saying that what Matt does is what Matt does. He is who he is, and we're not going to try to change that. He obviously is doing something right to have gotten to where he is. Maybe I would have acted differently in his situation. Maybe not. I don't know, because I'm not in his situation. Peter Schiff has some things to him that really annoying the shit out of me (like cutting people off while they are talking during Liberty Watch), but he's obviously doing something right. Ron Paul is too nice IMO, but he's definitely doing something right.

We're all different. If not shaking someones hand turns out to be the kiss of death then at the very least we can all learn from his mistake (if it turns out to be one).

No, there is quite a large difference. Collins holds a small office...not necessarily difficult to obtain.

Schiff and Ron have somewhat similar personalities. They don't refuse to speak on partisan or socialist networks like Fox or CNN simply because of their stance. They do their best to get the message out. They are steadfast in their beliefs in opinions, but not isolating. They do their best to explain and convey the principles of liberty, freedom, sound money, and Constitutional government. Schiff is more bold and Ron is a little more passive now, but both are in fairly prominent positions, are given opportunities to speak more frequently, and as a result are heard more and more and embraced like never before.

What would Collins do in such a situation? Apparently, refuse to speak on CNN or FOX because of their political stances and connections. Refuse to associate with or speak to anyone with a different view. How does the message get out if you act like that? What if Ron had refused to run as a republican because a bunch of people he disagreed with were in the party? Where would we be now?

Just look at the recipe for success. Schiff is ahead of Dodd by a fair margin in polls if I recall correctly, Ron's ideas and bills have more support than ever, and that wasn't a result of being a grouch, jerk, or arrogant donkey.

speciallyblend
07-21-2009, 08:27 PM
Not a small, local office, but I have and continue to do much in other ways, and I have entertained the prospect of running for congress in the past and may still do so. I have the money.

Apparently, you can't discuss the valid points in my argument, though. Just sarcastic comments :rolleyes:. Not unlike you though, speciallyblend.

i am not trying to be a monday morning quarterback! i have no need to discuss your points i am not matt!

i am glad you know me so well ,not:)

Mandrik
07-21-2009, 08:29 PM
You make great points, and I don't want to argue any of that. I just think what Matt chooses to do is what he chooses to do. I'm sure it took a lot of hard work to get to where he is, even if it may not seem all that difficult to obtain. I'm glad to have him on our side, but he doesn't speak for us as a whole. People may judge our entire movement on his actions, but are these really the types of people we can change? I think people like that are just looking for reasons to hate us, no matter how petty or idiotic (snowballs @ Hannity comes to mind).

I'd rather have him out there doing what he's doing than sitting at home eating Doritos and playing XBox. Something is better than nothing IMO.

speciallyblend
07-21-2009, 08:37 PM
You make great points, and I don't want to argue any of that. I just think what Matt chooses to do is what he chooses to do. I'm sure it took a lot of hard work to get to where he is, even if it may not seem all that difficult to obtain. I'm glad to have him on our side, but he doesn't speak for us as a whole. People may judge our entire movement on his actions, but are these really the types of people we can change? I think people like that are just looking for reasons to hate us, no matter how petty or idiotic (snowballs @ Hannity comes to mind).

I'd rather have him out there doing what he's doing than sitting at home eating Doritos and playing XBox. Something is better than nothing IMO.

i always say to folks. if they can do better. then shut up and do it:) not directed at you of course!

speciallyblend
07-21-2009, 08:41 PM
No, there is quite a large difference. Collins holds a small office...not necessarily difficult to obtain.

Schiff and Ron have somewhat similar personalities. They don't refuse to speak on partisan or socialist networks like Fox or CNN simply because of their stance. They do their best to get the message out. They are steadfast in their beliefs in opinions, but not isolating. They do their best to explain and convey the principles of liberty, freedom, sound money, and Constitutional government. Schiff is more bold and Ron is a little more passive now, but both are in fairly prominent positions, are given opportunities to speak more frequently, and as a result are heard more and more and embraced like never before.

What would Collins do in such a situation? Apparently, refuse to speak on CNN or FOX because of their political stances and connections. Refuse to associate with or speak to anyone with a different view. How does the message get out if you act like that? What if Ron had refused to run as a republican because a bunch of people he disagreed with were in the party? Where would we be now?

Just look at the recipe for success. Schiff is ahead of Dodd by a fair margin in polls if I recall correctly, Ron's ideas and bills have more support than ever, and that wasn't a result of being a grouch, jerk, or arrogant donkey.

well the way i look at it.if he had given him a hand shake. you wouldn't have a story to even complain about and our message wouldn't of been heard! catch 22 no? the only reaSON YOU ARE EVEN POSTING ANYTHING RELATED TO MATT AND HIS ACTIONS is a story was created by his actions!

he did nothing wrong. i can tell you what i will never shake mccains hand or the failed leader of the cogop dick wadhams! if he helps callout some scum in the party and helps other see the scum. then kudos to him. the gop doesn't even deserve matt,but at least he is trying!

so he is a jerk for not shakingthe guys hand? hmm i guess you would have all kinds of names for me. i wouldn't shake alot of gop leaders hands.

rockandrollsouls
07-21-2009, 08:50 PM
You make great points, and I don't want to argue any of that. I just think what Matt chooses to do is what he chooses to do. I'm sure it took a lot of hard work to get to where he is, even if it may not seem all that difficult to obtain. I'm glad to have him on our side, but he doesn't speak for us as a whole. People may judge our entire movement on his actions, but are these really the types of people we can change? I think people like that are just looking for reasons to hate us, no matter how petty or idiotic (snowballs @ Hannity comes to mind).

I'd rather have him out there doing what he's doing than sitting at home eating Doritos and playing XBox. Something is better than nothing IMO.

All I can say is just because someone is not visible in the public eye at the moment, and just because you aren't aware of what they may be doing, doesn't mean they would be contributing any less.

I'm sure there are a lot of people that are doing a lot of work you are unaware of...

specsaregood
07-21-2009, 08:52 PM
well the way i look at it.if he had given him a hand shake. you wouldn't have a story to even complain about and our message wouldn't of been heard! catch 22 no? the only reaSON YOU ARE EVEN POSTING ANYTHING RELATED TO MATT AND HIS ACTIONS is a story was created by his actions!


It seems our Mr. Collins has the potential to be a decent politician. He did a bit of grandstanding and as a result got the message out there that Mr. Wamp makes poor votes and does not represent conservative ideals. The point being missed is that the people here and on those other blogs don't even dispute this issue; because they can't. So while they attack MC for his behavior they still reinforce the overall message. Crafty Mr. Collins, crafty indeed.

Mandrik
07-21-2009, 08:53 PM
i always say to folks. if they can do better. then shut up and do it:) not directed at you of course!

Amen to that, lol. I know I wish I could do more, but I do what I can. Folks like Matt are way ahead of me, so who am I to judge? Go out there and do your thing. I'd be happy to see people out there at least trying & failing than taking the XBOX/Doritos route that many of my "red pill" friends have chosen.

edit:


I'm sure there are a lot of people that are doing a lot of work you are unaware of...

Hell yeah, I'm sure they are out there working their tails off! I hope they are doing their thing as well! :)

speciallyblend
07-21-2009, 09:00 PM
Amen to that, lol. I know I wish I could do more, but I do what I can. Folks like Matt are way ahead of me, so who am I to judge? Go out there and do your thing. I'd be happy to see people out there at least trying & failing than taking the XBOX/Doritos route that many of my "red pill" friends have chosen.

edit:



Hell yeah, I'm sure they are out there working their tails off! I hope they are doing their thing as well! :)


I know one thing. in the ron paul movement. i met alot of great folks at Ronstock
(paul n emily rock) (rally for the republic) and i was never happier sending my hard earned money to Ron Paul! of course i am broke now:( but i did what i could the last 2 yrs with what i had!


i also met alot of folks up at the freedom rally in south dakota!

I look forward to supporting our 2 ron paul democrats,since the cogop dropped the ball!

Mandrik
07-21-2009, 09:10 PM
<threadhijack>
Yeah, I've definitely met a lot of really great people through this movement, especially locally. Probably the biggest surprise for me was when I went to Philly for RP's speech in November '07. When it was all over, I was walking behind the stage for a chance to shake his hand (which I managed). As I was heading over I bumped into a first cousin that I had no idea was involved in the movement! I didn't know what we were angrier about--being cousins and not knowing we had the same great taste in politics, or not having car pooled when we only live 10 minutes away from each other. ;)

I'm going to do my best to go at least 1 day to the C4L rally in Philly this September.
</threadhijack>

Matt Collins
07-21-2009, 10:50 PM
Would I shake hands with someone who flushed my children's future down the toilet? That was my point too! :)

Matt Collins
07-21-2009, 10:52 PM
I see rockandrollsoul's point, but you know what Matt, you are the one who got out there, did the hard work to even be in this position, so I respect your call.Coming from you that means a lot. Thanks! :)

Matt Collins
07-21-2009, 10:54 PM
if he helps callout some scum in the party and helps other see the scum. then kudos to him.


From what I see, Matt has solidified himself as a Ron Paul Republican solely based upon getting a hit piece written about him because he stands up for his principles. In that way he is a "Ron Paul clone".

well the way i look at it.if he had given him a hand shake. you wouldn't have a story to even complain about and our message wouldn't of been heard! catch 22 no? the only reaSON YOU ARE EVEN POSTING ANYTHING RELATED TO MATT AND HIS ACTIONS is a story was created by his actions!

He did a bit of grandstanding and as a result got the message out there that Mr. Wamp makes poor votes and does not represent conservative ideals. ;);););)



The point being missed is that the people here and on those other blogs don't even dispute this issue; because they can't. So while they attack MC for his behavior they still reinforce the overall message. Crafty Mr. Collins, crafty indeed.;);););)

Thanks for your comments, and your understanding of the strategy at play here. :)

Athan
07-21-2009, 10:55 PM
Fuck them Matt! They did the same shit to us and suddenly now they are offended. Fucking liberal swine.

Matt Collins
07-21-2009, 10:57 PM
Yeah, really. Who are we to tell him how to behave? He did all the work to get to where he is. We can try to Monday morning QB his situation from our computers, or we can go out and try to make a difference. Hey, I'm always open to constructive criticism; it help keep me in check.




I salute you, Matt, for your effort.Thanks

Matt Collins
07-21-2009, 11:00 PM
There are way too many people who voted for bailouts to do this. We will get nowehere by refusing to even interact with those we disagree with us, who obviously would be a majority...Of course I interacted with Rep Wamp. You should read the original blog which started all of this:


Several DCRP officers and myself approached him near the conclusion of the Picnic because we wanted to discuss HR1207 (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.1207:) (Audit the Federal Reserve Act). Representative Wamp extended his hand to me to shake it and I absolutely refused; I am not interested in being friendly towards those who violate the Constitution. To be fair he said that he was very supportive of HR1207 and that "we ought to do more than just audit the Fed....it's the cause of a lot of our problems". While I agree with the Congressman on that specific issue I honestly wanted to vocalize that the other cause of our problems were big-government Republicans acting like big-government Democrats such as himself. However in the spirit of, at minimum, being cordial, I held my tongue. But prior to walking away I did thank him for and told him I appreciated his support on HR1207. I still did not shake his hand.

Regardless of his support for a call of transparency in Auditing the Fed, the fact of the matter is that he broke the trust of the People of the United States by clearly violating his oath to uphold the US Constitution. One or multiple positive actions do not negate the fundamental premise of breaking the highest law in the land, usurping more power to the federal government, and going against one's sworn oath

http://www.campaignforliberty.com/blog.php?view=21733

Matt Collins
07-21-2009, 11:02 PM
the gop has no credibility left.And that's exactly what I'm trying to change by calling these people out and holding them accountable; you should too!

Matt Collins
07-21-2009, 11:03 PM
Shaking hands isn't compromising, imho.Of course it isn't. But would you shake hands with someone who just stole from you and your family? :confused:

Matt Collins
07-21-2009, 11:05 PM
Matt.. good stuff man really...
Go Matt Go!!!

Way to go Mr. Collins, there is honor in your words.:cool:Thank you all for your compliments. They are very appreciated.

Matt Collins
07-21-2009, 11:13 PM
I always wanted to see Ron Paul stand up and maybe not be so nice when he needed to be.You mean like this? :D:D


YouTube - Ron Paul on Trash TV, 1988 - Pt. 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHB2I83_N_k)



Yeah I told him in February "sir, if you had talked lat the debates like you did when you were on the Morton Downey Jr Show we might be saying 'President Paul' right now". When he heard that he said "oh no" and he gave me a facepalm... it was hilarious :p



We do need people who will stand up and yell when it is needed, even if it is shocking to others. Maybe Matt went too far by not shaking someone's hand. Maybe he didn't go far enough. What I do know is these people in power need to see our rage & our anger in a peaceful form. How we handle that as individuals is up to us.
There must be a dichotomy and I think that Teddy nailed it best; "Walk lightly but carry a big stick".

And I think there are times when we as a movement, and even as individuals, must show our fangs every once in a while. Sadly these days it is becoming more and more often than just "once in a while" :(



Bottom line: Smiles & hand shakes are nice enough, but there does come a time when we have to say enough is enough. If our actions result in negative comments from others, than so be it.Couldn't have said it better myself.



Ron Paul is too nice IMO, but he's definitely doing something right.I don't mind being a lightning rod to draw attention and flak while other more toned-down liberty minded individuals go about things in their more subtle manners.

Imperial
07-21-2009, 11:14 PM
Of course I interacted with Rep Wamp. You should read the original blog which started all of this:


Several DCRP officers and myself approached him near the conclusion of the Picnic because we wanted to discuss HR1207 (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.1207:) (Audit the Federal Reserve Act). Representative Wamp extended his hand to me to shake it and I absolutely refused; I am not interested in being friendly towards those who violate the Constitution. To be fair he said that he was very supportive of HR1207 and that "we ought to do more than just audit the Fed....it's the cause of a lot of our problems". While I agree with the Congressman on that specific issue I honestly wanted to vocalize that the other cause of our problems were big-government Republicans acting like big-government Democrats such as himself. However in the spirit of, at minimum, being cordial, I held my tongue. But prior to walking away I did thank him for and told him I appreciated his support on HR1207. I still did not shake his hand.

Fair enough, I had checked out your response and saw some of the criticism but I didn't see your initial post.



Regardless of his support for a call of transparency in Auditing the Fed, the fact of the matter is that he broke the trust of the People of the United States by clearly violating his oath to uphold the US Constitution. One or multiple positive actions do not negate the fundamental premise of breaking the highest law in the land, usurping more power to the federal government, and going against one's sworn oath

http://www.campaignforliberty.com/blog.php?view=21733

I guess its just a difference in tactics. I mean, on the one hand you get the media attention and you get to take a stand while trying to avoid excessive provocation.

On the other hand, if I were Representative Wamp I would not be very hospitable to working with you after you snubbed me like that. Even though it is based in policy disagreements, it is a type of outright rejection. And even if it is policy-based, it would still be insulting, particularly if he believes in what he practices it comes across as a dismissal of his views.

Which is in a sense what you were headed for. To withdraw support. I guess that just doesn't seem the most effective method of selling my ideas. But it is true that at some point somebody has to take a stand. Not sure if that was the best instance, but I wasn't there to comment on it.

However, it is true that the perception of the event matters in regards to politicking with others, and in that area the media controls it. So if it wasn't that big of deal then the media can make it seem much more dastardly.

Matt Collins
07-21-2009, 11:36 PM
You want a hit-piece based upon principle? He should challenge the candidate to a policy discussion, debate, or conference to discuss the direction of the party and his actions as a principled, staunch republican. In that way, Collins can be viewed as a torch bearer for truly republican ideals. There is nothing to debate; he clearly violated the Constitution, broke his oath, and stole money from the American People. He could do and say everything else right during his gubernatorial campaign and it wouldn't make a difference. The fact of the matter is that he cannot be trusted (nor should he), and that he should not be rewarded for his actions by being elevated to higher office with more power.



Rejecting a handshake and acting like a rude little kid is in no way, shape, or form standing up for republican ideals. Learn to differentiate ;).Showing respect for a Constitutional-abridging thief is not very Republican either.


You're not accomplishing ANYTHING Oh contrair; do you know how many thousands of eyes have seen this? I am showing the political scene that we the People are fed up with big-government Republicans and that the GOP must clean house if it is to be respected and gain credibility.





YOU may be in a new position of power, but YOU haven't made an effort to convert others in the party. That's not true. By explaining my positions, pontificating upon the Constitution, teaching others about limited-government, and interminging limited-government CFL types with mainstream Republicans we are starting to win people over. One of my best friends in this movement was a former neocon.



You look down on them, treat them like garbage, and isolate them from an embracing freedom movement because you're overblown with pride. Incorrect. It may look like that, but when someone is told that they are wrong, it's usually painful at first.





The attempt to justify your personality flaws is, for the most part, futile. :rolleyes:



by being approachable and friendly you may change some big minds and throttle yourself to the forefront of your state party...a big victory for freedom. Rather, you burn your bridges immediately.I am friendly, most of the time. And I have some serious disagreements with some members of my GOP. But that's ok. However none of them are in a position to steal my money and violate the Constitution; Representative Wamp was entrusted and broke that trust.... he is fair game.


Oh and I'm not a "go along to get along" kind of guy. The GOP is full of those types which is why it's in the mess that it's in.



There's a pretty good chance that you gave this movement and its ideals a bad standing with that man, and if he rejects ideal because of your poor representation of what we are about, by using your logic you should be just as guilty.This guy is somewhat conservative anyway (remember he supported HR1207 in the beginning). However after violating the Constitution and voting for the bailout he cannot be trusted in any other elected position, including higher office.




Let me ask you; what changes more minds? Refusing to associate with those we disagree with so that they may not change and isolating them, or attempting to sway them through intelligent discussion?Again this wasn't about some sort of disagreement. This was about his unconstitutional action.





How about you show me how being an arrogant, rude little child furthers the cause of liberty. Collins could have debated policy or worked for freedom....that's the real way to bring about change and further the freedom agenda. Refusing to shake a hand does absolutely nothing of the sortSee my previous post about being a lightining rod ;)


What headline do you want to see? Matt Collins - rude, isolationist jerk or Matt Collins - rebuilding and returning the GOP to its roots? You're only going to get the second if you engage other members of the GOP and sway them.How about

"Nashville GOP Vice Chair Holds Fellow Republicans Accountable To Their Records"


Matt has much more he could and should be doing but isn't. However that isn't being discussed or brought up. Let's her your ideas. I'm open to them!




If Ron had acted like Matt and refused to embrace those that he didn't agree with, we wouldn't have over 270 cosponsors for H.R. 1207....You are talking about two entirely different scenerios. And besides, I did thank Rep Wamp for his support on HR1207.




No, there is quite a large difference. Collins holds a small office...not necessarily difficult to obtain. Not when you "brute force" it like we did. Tell that to the 80+ fellow "Ron Paul Republicans" in Nashville that spent many hours and donated hundreds of dollars over the course of several months to gain 6 seats on the Nashville GOP Executive Committie. It was not an easy fight especially since most of us had been members less than a year and were not known by most of the GOP establishment.

If we had all joined and sat in the background for a term while the country-club Republicans did their thing then the next time around we probably would've been able to come close to the position we are in now, but this is practically the 2nd best possible outcome.



What would Collins do in such a situation? Apparently, refuse to speak on CNN or FOX because of their political stances and connections. Refuse to associate with or speak to anyone with a different view.I never said that. I had a conversation with the guy. I have conversations with liberal / big-government friends all the time. I have conversations with neocon friends all the time.

Matt Collins
07-21-2009, 11:42 PM
On the other hand, if I were Representative Wamp I would not be very hospitable to working with you after you snubbed me like that. His term is up soon enough and he won't win the gubernatorial race. And others are already fighting for his seat.

Imperial
07-21-2009, 11:58 PM
His term is up soon enough and he won't win the gubernatorial race. And others are already fighting for his seat.

even if he loses a former Representative knows people and has some influence.

Matt Collins
07-22-2009, 09:52 AM
even if he loses a former Representative knows people and has some influence.He is unbeatable in his district... largely due to the amount of pork he brings home.

rockandrollsouls
07-22-2009, 08:05 PM
There is nothing to debate; he clearly violated the Constitution, broke his oath, and stole money from the American People. He could do and say everything else right during his gubernatorial campaign and it wouldn't make a difference. The fact of the matter is that he cannot be trusted (nor should he), and that he should not be rewarded for his actions by being elevated to higher office with more power.


Showing respect for a Constitutional-abridging thief is not very Republican either.

Oh contrair; do you know how many thousands of eyes have seen this? I am showing the political scene that we the People are fed up with big-government Republicans and that the GOP must clean house if it is to be respected and gain credibility.




That's not true. By explaining my positions, pontificating upon the Constitution, teaching others about limited-government, and interminging limited-government CFL types with mainstream Republicans we are starting to win people over. One of my best friends in this movement was a former neocon.


Incorrect. It may look like that, but when someone is told that they are wrong, it's usually painful at first.




:rolleyes:


I am friendly, most of the time. And I have some serious disagreements with some members of my GOP. But that's ok. However none of them are in a position to steal my money and violate the Constitution; Representative Wamp was entrusted and broke that trust.... he is fair game.


Oh and I'm not a "go along to get along" kind of guy. The GOP is full of those types which is why it's in the mess that it's in.


This guy is somewhat conservative anyway (remember he supported HR1207 in the beginning). However after violating the Constitution and voting for the bailout he cannot be trusted in any other elected position, including higher office.



Again this wasn't about some sort of disagreement. This was about his unconstitutional action.




See my previous post about being a lightining rod ;)

How about

"Nashville GOP Vice Chair Holds Fellow Republicans Accountable To Their Records"

Let's her your ideas. I'm open to them!



You are talking about two entirely different scenerios. And besides, I did thank Rep Wamp for his support on HR1207.



Not when you "brute force" it like we did. Tell that to the 80+ fellow "Ron Paul Republicans" in Nashville that spent many hours and donated hundreds of dollars over the course of several months to gain 6 seats on the Nashville GOP Executive Committie. It was not an easy fight especially since most of us had been members less than a year and were not known by most of the GOP establishment.

If we had all joined and sat in the background for a term while the country-club Republicans did their thing then the next time around we probably would've been able to come close to the position we are in now, but this is practically the 2nd best possible outcome.


I never said that. I had a conversation with the guy. I have conversations with liberal / big-government friends all the time. I have conversations with neocon friends all the time.

No. My point is still entirely valid. "Talking" to someone is not having conversations with someone. You choose to snub those you disagree with, rather than discussing policy. That is my point, and I've laid out why it is counterproductive. I'm not going to continually argue with someone who is stubborn and refuses to acknowledge problems that should be remedied to further a freedom agenda.

In my opinion, you are equally at fault as Wamp. You are not making an attempt to change the policy of those you disagree with. You could be doing much, much more to bring them to a Constitutional view, and refusing to shake hands doesn't accomplish that. In that regard, you are allowing your pride to prevent further progress in the freedom movement. Consequently, people will suffer due to your arrogance.

Why can't you just swallow your pride, admit you can do more, and do it? You could be having a discussion with Wamp right now, but you choose to troll the boards and attempt to justify yourself to a community that is, for the most part, on your side. You don't need to be convincing us of anything....you need to be convincing those you don't agree with. You should be educating....you're letting a great opportunity go to waste, in my opinion.

He Who Pawns
07-22-2009, 09:08 PM
Stop grand-standing, Collins. Why does everything have to be about you?

I thought you had learned your lesson when I humbled you here a couple months ago. You have been a vastly better poster since that time, and I thought you had a turned the corner. But here you are, once again, trying to make yourself the center of attention.

Learn to be humble and quit trying to make everything be about YOU.

It's about liberty, not about you.

Matt Collins
07-22-2009, 10:40 PM
No. My point is still entirely valid. "Talking" to someone is not having conversations with someone. You choose to snub those you disagree with, rather than discussing policy. We did discuss policy, and we do agree on many things, did you not read anything I've posted?


why it is counterproductive.Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't.


In my opinion, you are equally at fault as Wamp. Really? When did I violate my oath to the Constitution? When did I ever steal from anyone?! :confused::confused::confused::confused:



Why can't you just swallow your pride, admit you can do more, and do it? You could be having a discussion with Wamp right now, but you choose to troll the boards and attempt to justify yourself to a community that is, for the most part, on your side. You don't need to be convincing us of anything....you need to be convincing those you don't agree with. You should be educating....you're letting a great opportunity go to waste, in my opinion.Again, you don't understand the political situation on the ground here.

Matt Collins
07-22-2009, 10:43 PM
Stop grand-standing, Collins. Why does everything have to be about you?It's not. And sometimes grand-standing is needed to call attention to issues and ideas.


I thought you had learned your lesson when I humbled you here a couple months ago.You never humbled me, you simple hurled insults until you were banned. I'm open to debate and discussion, but per TOS you are not allowed to insult others.



But here you are, once again, trying to make yourself the center of attention. It's about liberty, not about you.You fail to understand that I am not making it about me. I am only incidental. I am making it about the issues. I am making it about principle. I am making it about the fact that we are working to limit our government. If you can't see that then you are blind.

He Who Pawns
07-22-2009, 11:22 PM
You fail to understand that I am not making it about me. I am only incidental. I am making it about the issues. I am making it about principle. I am making it about the fact that we are working to limit our government. If you can't see that then you are blind.

Do you really think that a bizarre blog story about a libertarian hobbit with a ponytail refusing to shake the hand of some random politician is somehow "good PR"?

You got destroyed here a couple of months ago in several threads in the Vent, Collins. I thought you had changed your ways and stopped trying to aggrandize yourself. But it looks like you are back to your old tricks. Stop it.

Matt Collins
07-22-2009, 11:37 PM
Do you really think that a bizarre blog story about a libertarian hobbit with a ponytail refusing to shake the hand of some random politician is somehow "good PR"?

You got destroyed here a couple of months ago in several threads in the Vent, Collins. I thought you had changed your ways and stopped trying to aggrandize yourself. But it looks like you are back to your old tricks. Stop it.I don't have a ponytail, I am not a hobbit, I've gotten a 4:1 ratio response of good:bad feedback regarding the action, and you are quickly on your way to getting banned again. :mad:

He Who Pawns
07-22-2009, 11:45 PM
I don't have a ponytail, I am not a hobbit, I've gotten a 4:1 ratio response of good:bad feedback regarding the action, and you are quickly on your way to getting banned again. :mad:

What happened to your ponytail, Matt? If you keep this up, you will be back on everyone's shit list and back to getting skewered here on a regular basis.

You did a great job of changing your ways and improving your online presence over the last 2 months -- no more "I just talked to Rand" or "Kokesh just called me" thread titles -- but sadly, I see that you are slipping back to your old ways now. I suggest that you cut out the nonsense and go back to promoting liberty, instead of trying to promote yourself, because it always backfires on you.

Matt Collins
07-23-2009, 12:18 AM
What happened to your ponytail, Matt? Cut it off months ago.


If you keep this up, you will be back on everyone's shit list and back to getting skewered here on a regular basis.

You did a great job of changing your ways and improving your online presence over the last 2 months -- no more "I just talked to Rand" or "Kokesh just called me" thread titles -- but sadly, I see that you are slipping back to your old ways now. I suggest that you cut out the nonsense and go back to promoting liberty, instead of trying to promote yourself, because it always backfires on you.Sorry, who placed you in an authority position over me? :confused: :rolleyes:

I am open for constructive criticism but you are crossing the line and I'm telling ya you're about to get banned again.

He Who Pawns
07-23-2009, 12:26 AM
Cut it off months ago.

Sorry, who placed you in an authority position over me?


It was by taking my advice - reluctantly - that you repaired your reputation here over the last couple of months. Why throw it all away? Self-promotion, attention whoring, and bizarre blog entries about rude behavior are hardly good ways to help this movement.

Does Rand know that you refused to shake this person's hand? Is that what Rand would do? Is that what Dr Paul would do?

You're embarrassing yourself, Matt, and disgracing our movement.

Matt Collins
07-23-2009, 12:38 AM
Does Rand know that you refused to shake this person's hand? Is that what Rand would do? Is that what Dr Paul would do? Haven't had to chance to mention it to him yet. But trust me this is way below his radar.


You're embarrassing yourself, Matt, and disgracing our movement.Really? Most of the posts in this thread prove otherwise.

He Who Pawns
07-23-2009, 12:47 AM
Haven't had to chance to mention it to him yet. But trust me this is way below his radar.


You better hope I do not put it on his radar screen. Any further bizarre, self-promoting, embarrassing behavior by you will be quickly pointed out to Rand from this day forward. You are on warning. So stop the self-promotion and self aggrandizement immediately.

I let you slide when you personally attacked a Paul family member here on this forum. You will not be given any more slack by me.

You didn't answer my question, Matt. Do you think Dr Paul would do some strange stunt like this, refusing to shake someone's hand? Would Dr Paul do it, yes or no?

emazur
07-23-2009, 02:00 AM
Do you really think that a bizarre blog story about a libertarian hobbit with a ponytail refusing to shake the hand of some random politician is somehow "good PR"?

That's just cold blooded - you need to STFU either voluntarily or by moderator.

To Matt, I haven't read through this whole thread but I read your response and I thought it was excellent and well thought out. I suppose some might think it right to criticize you for refusing to shake someone's damn hand, but every individual is entitled to draw his own line and take a stand. Bush got booed on his way out of the White House. Neocons got booed at the tea parties. After 8 years of hell, if Ron Paul refused to shake the hand of Dubya or Dick Fuckin' Cheney, not only would he be right, I think he would get tremendous support for taking such a stand. How bad does it have to get before it's considered OK not to shake a political figure's hand? Richard Nixon bad? Fidel Castro bad? Adolf Hitler bad? Kim Jong Ill perhaps?

rockandrollsouls
07-23-2009, 04:10 AM
That's just cold blooded - you need to STFU either voluntarily or by moderator.

To Matt, I haven't read through this whole thread but I read your response and I thought it was excellent and well thought out. I suppose some might think it right to criticize you for refusing to shake someone's damn hand, but every individual is entitled to draw his own line and take a stand. Bush got booed on his way out of the White House. Neocons got booed at the tea parties. After 8 years of hell, if Ron Paul refused to shake the hand of Dubya or Dick Fuckin' Cheney, not only would he be right, I think he would get tremendous support for taking such a stand. How bad does it have to get before it's considered OK not to shake a political figure's hand? Richard Nixon bad? Fidel Castro bad? Adolf Hitler bad? Kim Jong Ill perhaps?

Then perhaps you should consider reading the entire thread with the well thought out responses and arguments prior to opening your mouth? You readily admit you didn't read the thread or the rationale behind the stances some of us have taken. A bit ignorant, no? Looks to me like you saw what you wanted to see, maintained a predetermined stance, and chose a side (which, once again, Matt managed to fracture and create on this forum....) Consequently, I suggest you actually read the debate that's been taking place before telling someone to "STFU."





Do you really think that a bizarre blog story about a libertarian hobbit with a ponytail refusing to shake the hand of some random politician is somehow "good PR"?

You got destroyed here a couple of months ago in several threads in the Vent, Collins. I thought you had changed your ways and stopped trying to aggrandize yourself. But it looks like you are back to your old tricks. Stop it.

Fucking thank you.

rockandrollsouls
07-23-2009, 04:13 AM
You better hope I do not put it on his radar screen. Any further bizarre, self-promoting, embarrassing behavior by you will be quickly pointed out to Rand from this day forward. You are on warning. So stop the self-promotion and self aggrandizement immediately.

I let you slide when you personally attacked a Paul family member here on this forum. You will not be given any more slack by me.

You didn't answer my question, Matt. Do you think Dr Paul would do some strange stunt like this, refusing to shake someone's hand? Would Dr Paul do it, yes or no?

Finally, someone on my side of things. This is entirely about Collin's pride here. He knows full well there are a wealth of other things he could be doing that really do promote liberty, he's not doing them, and he's trying to justify a jackass move and personal grandstanding as, somehow, making progress for liberty.

Give me a break. :rolleyes:


We did discuss policy, and we do agree on many things, did you not read anything I've posted?

Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't.

Really? When did I violate my oath to the Constitution? When did I ever steal from anyone?! :confused::confused::confused::confused:


Again, you don't understand the political situation on the ground here.

Acknowledging his support for HR 1207 isn't "discussing policy." You know that....don't go twisting words and arguments like you commonly do, buddy. Read my rationale for you being equally at fault as Wamp. If you are hindering freedom in another manner, I don't see how you are immune, and you certainly are hindering progress. Furthermore, don't tell me "I don't understand the situation on the ground." Who the bloody hell are you? Patraeus or Bush attempting to patronize me? Fact of the matter is you could be doing more, you choose other measures that hinder the progression of freedom, and then you have the nerve to come on the board and attempt to justify yourself when you could be changing minds in your local party as we speak. It's your pride, again, Collins, and I'm not going to have a back and forth with you about it anymore. You gingerly pick and prod at parts of my argument that you know are valid to keep a petty debate going, and you simply refuse to acknowledge the aspects of it you know are true.

Just go do what we supported you to do. Promote freedom with every ounce of strength you have or get the hell out of your position. I'm not looking to play politics, splinter a party, or place blame. The goal here is to change minds and advance freedom; you've forgotten that.

Aratus
07-23-2009, 09:17 AM
He Who Pawns...

long tyme no see... and i

see thee be in rarified form?

what am i, more nondescript than

and blandly boring than chopped liver?

i thought i did the definative posting on this all...

Aratus
07-23-2009, 09:33 AM
dr. rand paul is a very polite man! ---matt collins, your explanations do say
why this hit piece is a hatchet jobbie bespeaking of many more to follow!
you are in a good humour and taking all this in and seeing the humor
inside the same! we all now enter the political fray that is multi-facetted
and multi-sided. wheat from chaff. jack conway still sits with 1.3 million
greenbacks and has spent some of the same. he who once went to NC
on a luncheon junket! ms. darlene fitzgerald price again wonders where
she whistleblower stands inside our vast universe of potentialities, she
also wants to "tea leave" read the voters well long ahead of november
of 2010. dare a meantion a lt-gov who ought to run for governor? sorta?

dr. rand paul is a very polite man! ---alan keyes likes that there johnson
fellow and was at a fundraising dinner for the same. advice and consent, yes!
evidently mr. johnson got pointers on how to run for a senate seat. we now
come to trey grayson and WHOSE senate seat he ought to run for! hint... hint
hint...hint... trey... think of how long mitch mcconnell has served the voters of
KY, and how long you have to wait until a certain said senate race. dear dear
dear trey grayon... adorable YOUNG trey grayson... ask dear OLD mitch mcconnell
for some MORE pointers... sit on the advice for say five or eleven years... and THEN
RUN FULL STEAM, FULL BLAST! Aratus adroitly thinks darlene fitzgerald price and
dr. rand paul just might have a string of debates BETWEEN august and october of 2010...


He Who Pawns...

Matt Collins was a tad rude.
Matt Collins clearly did nothing wrong.
Matt Collins could run for office someday...
if he doesn't move from where he lives, he'd be
running for office in that there state that is one state
OVER from good ole Kentucky. from what i can gather, from
what i can see, DOCTOR RAND PAUL is on the verge of running for the
senate seat in KENTUCKY that Jim Bunning is comfortably sitting in right now...
IF and i say IF we soon see both Trey Grayson & Rand Paul tossing their
hats into the ring, as Senator Bunning grandly goes back an' forth
about HAVING a THIRD go at it, this most minor rudeness by the
unsalaried and diligent campaign manager that Rand Paul
semi-officially has... will go onto a proverbial backburner
as the intensity of the actual three-way race insted
has the mass media glomming onto each daily
development. the sense of anticipation and
suspense is heightened by the poker
player bluffs being played out by
2 auld-tyme sitting senators...

BarryDonegan
07-23-2009, 02:02 PM
for those of you who weren't there and want to backseat politic, i can tell you from clear first hand experience, from being there, and from having spoken with Zach Wamp before in a critical manner, that he was CLEARLY working very hard to show us that he was improving his voting record.

the reason he was doing this was because he VISUALLY recognized what crowd we were with.

First off, at a press junket for Blue Collar Muse bloggers I confronted Zach Wamp, politely but firmly, about voting for the bailout. He apologized, publicly, then came and shook my hand for a near full two minutes, repeatedly saying "good question, i really mean that". (I DID shake his hand, but that is personal preference. and neither here nor there.)

Next time we see him at the GOP picnic, we are all wearing our GOP Excom laminates, and he says something to the effect of, 'I was the SIXTH person to cosponsor that bill. It's Ron's bill. We don't just need to Audit the Fed, we need to turn it on its ear. It's responsible for the crisis.' Matt didn't shake his hand, but Zach was walking backwards. At that exact same time I told him that we appreciated his vote, and that votes "like that" mean a lot to us.

It was OBVIOUS that he recognized us as the Ron Paul style Republicans and specifically told us what he knew we wanted to hear.

None of us have EVER kissed up to Zach in any way, all I ever did was confront him on the bailout. He clearly respects and understands that we have voters that think like us, and is starting to understand what votes matter to us. If we kissed up to him and made him think that he has us locked in already, he wouldn't care what bills we care about. I guarantee you that noone else at the entire picnic discussed a specific bill by its number, and noone was confronting him negatively about anything. the same thing happened at that press junket. It is the POLITICIANS JOB TO MAKE YOU LIKE HIM, not the other way around. he has a VESTED INTEREST TO MAKE YOU LIKE HIM. and most politicians are GOOD AT MAKING YOU LIKE THEM.

You are not required to be nice to people all the time in any relationship. In this situation nothing that happened was rude in the slightest, nor was it taken as rude. The newspapers in question took a blog about who Matt prefers for a gubernatorial race with a metaphorical personal anecdote and turned it into a savage hit piece. I guarantee you Zach Wamp did not recall the situation as rude. In fact, he probably thought, good thing i cosponsored hr1207.

Criticism from party officials is one of the most powerful ways to affect the voting record of a politician. Guess where we learned that little aspect of TN politics?

From the people already in the GOP. It is absolutely normal for an older party activist who is 60 or 70 to scream until red in the face, cuss, and run out of the room at a politician over appointments in the election commission, for example. Negative information is how politicians learn what their constituents find unacceptable so they can calculate political risk when making a voting choice.

yongrel
07-23-2009, 02:57 PM
Refusing a handshake? Really?

Good job marginalizing yourself and others.

Silliness.

dannno
07-23-2009, 03:15 PM
Negative information is how politicians learn what their constituents find unacceptable so they can calculate political risk when making a voting choice.


Ya, not only that, Matt got some publicity for a lot of our ideas that he eloquently wrote about in his reply.

Win - Win

Matt Collins
07-23-2009, 03:31 PM
I see the haters are coming out in full force against me here. :rolleyes:

It should be obvious that many (but not all) of the criticisms against me in this thread aren't constructive, but is just another opportunity for those that dislike me to attack me.

Again I am open to disagreement and different opinions, however many of the thinly veiled attacks on me (specifically by HeWhoPawns, Youngrel, and to a lesser extend RockNRoll) are starting to get old. I don't care if you don't like me, but don't try to disguise your dislike of me as some sort of constructive critisim, because in the above cases it's not.

Matt Collins
07-23-2009, 03:36 PM
You better hope I do not put it on his radar screen. I plan on asking his opinion on it next time I see him in a few days.



Any further bizarre, self-promoting, embarrassing behavior by you will be quickly pointed out to Rand from this day forward. You are on warning. So stop the self-promotion and self aggrandizement immediately.
And who made you the judge?


But here is a hint, Rand trusts me more than he trusts you :rolleyes:


I let you slide when you personally attacked a Paul family member here on this forum. And who would that be?


You will not be given any more slack by me. You think I care? You honestly think that worries me?


You didn't answer my question, Matt. Do you think Dr Paul would do some strange stunt like this, refusing to shake someone's hand? Would Dr Paul do it, yes or no?Possibly, I don't know, I am not him. He did say he refused to have dinner with Bush & Co.

Matt Collins
07-23-2009, 03:38 PM
That's just cold blooded - you need to STFU either voluntarily or by moderator.Yeah he's on his way to being permanently banned.


How bad does it have to get before it's considered OK not to shake a political figure's hand? Richard Nixon bad? Fidel Castro bad? Adolf Hitler bad? Kim Jong Ill perhaps?Good point.

Matt Collins
07-23-2009, 03:42 PM
Finally, someone on my side of things. This is entirely about Collin's pride here. No it's not, and it's written as --Collins'--


He knows full well there are a wealth of other things he could be doing that really do promote liberty, he's not doing themSuch as?






Acknowledging his support for HR 1207 isn't "discussing policy." Right, because talking about current legislation and his sponsorship of it has nothing to do with policy whatsoever :rolleyes:



It's your pride, again, Collins, and I'm not going to have a back and forth with you about it anymore.You're wrong. And good, then I can spend time on other things than responding to your asinine posts.



Just go do what we supported you to do. Promote freedom with every ounce of strength you have or get the hell out of your position. I'm not looking to play politics, splinter a party, or place blame. If you think there is going to be no friction in this process than you are naive.


The goal here is to change minds and advance freedom; you've forgotten that.That's exactly what I'm doing.

Matt Collins
07-23-2009, 03:42 PM
Ya, not only that, Matt got some publicity for a lot of our ideas that he eloquently wrote about in his reply. Win - WinThat's the idea. I am glad that some people realize this.:)

Matt Collins
07-23-2009, 03:49 PM
You are not required to be nice to people all the time in any relationship. In this situation nothing that happened was rude in the slightest, nor was it taken as rude. The newspapers in question took a blog about who Matt prefers for a gubernatorial race with a metaphorical personal anecdote and turned it into a savage hit piece. I guarantee you Zach Wamp did not recall the situation as rude. In fact, he probably thought, good thing i cosponsored hr1207.Exactly; thanks for providing a different perspective.

I didn't specifically say "I'm not shaking your hand because you voted for the bailout" but he shook everyone else's hand and I kept mine in my pocket. I didn't have anything nice to say so I kept my mouth shut (it was tough to do though). When I had something nice to say I said it, such as complimenting him for HR1207.



Criticism from party officials is one of the most powerful ways to affect the voting record of a politician. Guess where we learned that little aspect of TN politics?ABSOLUTELY! That is why we have worked so hard to attain officer positions in the Nashville GOP - we have to be able to exert ideas and influence as Party officers (not speaking for the Party of course). It carrys a lot more weight when a Party officer says something than when the average voter / Party member says something. It's the bull pulpit if you will.




Negative information is how politicians learn what their constituents find unacceptable so they can calculate political risk when making a voting choice.Yep. Now just imagine if everyone who disagreed with his bailout vote refused to shake his hand? Him, and every other politican in the area, would get the message VERY quick that those types of voting records are unaccepable.

specsaregood
07-23-2009, 03:54 PM
That's the idea. I am glad that some people realize this.:)

I doubt the haters have as many accomplishments to point to in this "movement". Just let their insults go as no bother.

It's as if they don't realize that there is plenty of room for grandstanding in politics, its one of politicians favorite moves. You just pissed off your enemies and encouraged your allies, so be it.

There is a time to say, "ok, i'll get along" and there is a time to say, "I am here to stay and you will listen." The time to "get along" is when your opponents are at their strongest, the time to say the latter is when they are at their weakest. Which position would you all put the GOP in right now? I'd go with the latter.

georgiaboy
07-23-2009, 04:06 PM
this thread is so reminiscent of the '08 campaign and the whole convention/delegate strategizing process.

There were debates ad nauseum on this forum about whether to infiltrate openly or secretively, with kindness or anger, as Pollyannas or Warriors.

It's situational, it's environmental, it's mystical. It ain't necessarily logical or predictable. And sometimes one strategy works one way & time, another works another way & time.

People & politics. Go figure.

Deborah K
07-23-2009, 04:24 PM
this thread is so reminiscent of the '08 campaign and the whole convention/delegate strategizing process.

There were debates ad nauseum on this forum about whether to infiltrate openly or secretively, with kindness or anger, as Pollyannas or Warriors.

It's situational, it's environmental, it's mystical. It ain't necessarily logical or predictable. And sometimes one strategy works one way & time, another works another way & time.

People & politics. Go figure.

Spoken like a strategist. ;)

rockandrollsouls
07-23-2009, 04:51 PM
for those of you who weren't there and want to backseat politic, i can tell you from clear first hand experience, from being there, and from having spoken with Zach Wamp before in a critical manner, that he was CLEARLY working very hard to show us that he was improving his voting record.

the reason he was doing this was because he VISUALLY recognized what crowd we were with.

First off, at a press junket for Blue Collar Muse bloggers I confronted Zach Wamp, politely but firmly, about voting for the bailout. He apologized, publicly, then came and shook my hand for a near full two minutes, repeatedly saying "good question, i really mean that". (I DID shake his hand, but that is personal preference. and neither here nor there.)

Next time we see him at the GOP picnic, we are all wearing our GOP Excom laminates, and he says something to the effect of, 'I was the SIXTH person to cosponsor that bill. It's Ron's bill. We don't just need to Audit the Fed, we need to turn it on its ear. It's responsible for the crisis.' Matt didn't shake his hand, but Zach was walking backwards. At that exact same time I told him that we appreciated his vote, and that votes "like that" mean a lot to us.

It was OBVIOUS that he recognized us as the Ron Paul style Republicans and specifically told us what he knew we wanted to hear.

None of us have EVER kissed up to Zach in any way, all I ever did was confront him on the bailout. He clearly respects and understands that we have voters that think like us, and is starting to understand what votes matter to us. If we kissed up to him and made him think that he has us locked in already, he wouldn't care what bills we care about. I guarantee you that noone else at the entire picnic discussed a specific bill by its number, and noone was confronting him negatively about anything. the same thing happened at that press junket. It is the POLITICIANS JOB TO MAKE YOU LIKE HIM, not the other way around. he has a VESTED INTEREST TO MAKE YOU LIKE HIM. and most politicians are GOOD AT MAKING YOU LIKE THEM.

You are not required to be nice to people all the time in any relationship. In this situation nothing that happened was rude in the slightest, nor was it taken as rude. The newspapers in question took a blog about who Matt prefers for a gubernatorial race with a metaphorical personal anecdote and turned it into a savage hit piece. I guarantee you Zach Wamp did not recall the situation as rude. In fact, he probably thought, good thing i cosponsored hr1207.

Criticism from party officials is one of the most powerful ways to affect the voting record of a politician. Guess where we learned that little aspect of TN politics?

From the people already in the GOP. It is absolutely normal for an older party activist who is 60 or 70 to scream until red in the face, cuss, and run out of the room at a politician over appointments in the election commission, for example. Negative information is how politicians learn what their constituents find unacceptable so they can calculate political risk when making a voting choice.

Specsaregood, you haven't a clue as to what you are talking about. The idea is to spread a message of liberty and freedom as much as possible....that means educating and converting "enemies" (funny, Ron and other freedom candidates never considered them enemies....) Being an ignorant jackass doesn't further the agenda by any stretch of the imagination, and I'd like for ONE person to show me how that action does.

Whatever you say, Danno. More bad publicity for someone people were aching to dislike. Not all publicity is good publicity.

Barry, just be quiet, you're rambling. And I mean that in polite a way as possible. I've addressed everything you've attempted to communicate in prior posts. I suggest you backtrack and read them.

Collins, I've answered all your questions in prior posts. I couldn't be any clearer if I numbered them and typed in neon green text. Back to your old ways, once again. Hear what you want to hear, see what you want to see, believe what you want to believe. Simply frustrating, obnoxious, and irritating.


Refusing a handshake? Really?

Good job marginalizing yourself and others.

Silliness.

Bingo. I'm glad some people still have common sense. But, then again, everything he does he believes is a grand act of god to be envied. Worst of all, he can't swallow his pride. Apparently, it's about him and not liberty. Newsflash, Collins', being a dick isn't in your job description. Be one on your own time.

Then again, this is someone that isn't even a true believer in the Constitution and freedom. He's displayed instances where he believes it is permissible to violate property rights, such as stealing music from artists and movies on the internet. You shouldn't even be leading a charge in this fight, Collins'. You're just a hypocrite and you make me sick. Quit grandstanding when you have your own flaws.

specsaregood
07-23-2009, 05:22 PM
Specsaregood, you haven't a clue as to what you are talking about.

Thank you. It really means a lot coming from you, seriously.

yongrel
07-23-2009, 06:34 PM
I find it interested how many members of the liberty movement enjoy hitching their wagon to the favorite horse and then waving at the people as they ride by. Ambitious people attaching themselves to bigger names, so on and so forth.

Matt Collins certainly isn't the first person ever to make an effort to be the story, nor will he be the last.

It's a shame that his attention comes at the expense of his cause.

rockandrollsouls
07-23-2009, 06:37 PM
I find it interested how many members of the liberty movement enjoy hitching their wagon to the favorite horse and then waving at the people as they ride by. Ambitious people attaching themselves to bigger names, so on and so forth.

Matt Collins certainly isn't the first person ever to make an effort to be the story, nor will he be the last.

It's a shame that his attention comes at the expense of his cause.

Agreed. Unfortunately, not many people here will view it that way.

BarryDonegan
07-24-2009, 12:26 AM
I wonder if everyone else here had their blogs parsed for a hitpiece by a local Democrat rag how many of us might come across to others :p

Matt Collins
07-24-2009, 12:47 AM
It's situational, it's environmental, it's mystical. It ain't necessarily logical or predictable. And sometimes one strategy works one way & time, another works another way & time.That's kind of my point. In this situation by my judgment, this type of tactic worked. It doesn't all the time and it won't everywhere. But here it did.

Matt Collins
07-24-2009, 12:50 AM
Newsflash, Collins', being a dick isn't in your job description. Be one on your own time.Name calling... can you think of any thing of substance to say, or will you just continue to throw insults? :confused:


Then again, this is someone that isn't even a true believer in the Constitution and freedom. He's displayed instances where he believes it is permissible to violate property rights, such as stealing music from artists and movies on the internet..Ok this is the most ignorant and untrue statement you've ever made. I have NEVER advocated theft of art (or anything else for that matter) be it film, music, or any other form. :rolleyes:

Danke
07-24-2009, 12:56 AM
"First they ignore you - Then laugh at you and hate you - Then they fight you - then you win”

Press on Matt!

rockandrollsouls
07-24-2009, 04:06 AM
Name calling... can you think of any thing of substance to say, or will you just continue to throw insults? :confused:

Ok this is the most ignorant and untrue statement you've ever made. I have NEVER advocated theft of art (or anything else for that matter) be it film, music, or any other form. :rolleyes:

I'm not name calling. That's simply how you're acting. How else does one label your actions? Saintly? I don't think so. Take it for what it's worth.

And you DO advocate theft; you just don't consider it that. http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=198492&highlight=music+download 2nd post.

I'm not going to argue details with you. You really are back to your old ways.

Anyway, I like how you refuse to acknowledge the other, critical parts of my posts. Selective vision, once again.

pacelli
07-24-2009, 06:36 AM
Narcissism or histrionics notwithstanding...

http://www.knuckletattoos.com/pics/HOLD_FAST.jpg

Aratus
07-24-2009, 09:15 AM
I doubt the haters have as many accomplishments to point to in this "movement". Just let their insults go as no bother.

It's as if they don't realize that there is plenty of room for grandstanding in politics, its one of politicians favorite moves. You just pissed off your enemies and encouraged your allies, so be it.

There is a time to say, "ok, i'll get along" and there is a time to say, "I am here to stay and you will listen." The time to "get along" is when your opponents are at their strongest, the time to say the latter is when they are at their weakest. Which position would you all put the GOP in right now? I'd go with the latter.


this thread is so reminiscent of the '08 campaign and the whole convention/delegate strategizing process.

There were debates ad nauseum on this forum about whether to infiltrate openly or secretively, with kindness or anger, as Pollyannas or Warriors.

It's situational, it's environmental, it's mystical. It ain't necessarily logical or predictable. And sometimes one strategy works one way & time, another works another way & time.

People & politics. Go figure.


Spoken like a strategist. ;)

matt collins, thee is now the center of attention.
you are young, grasshopper. the fine art of donnybrooking...



admittedly anyone inside the epicenter of a traditional
donnybrook sorta ends up slugging away at all in order
to reach the rim of the brawling throng, and then by degrees
upon feeling the jaw, one then tries to figure out if one
socked the jaw of a fellow partisan or even a relative or
close friend. sometimes the electrifying fury of the brawl makes
the sport ongoing and continuous. the metaphysical entity
that is the world wide web takes into cyber-space all that was
and is of and tew a traditional donnybrook or even a most modern
version of the same. ------in politics, the lesson is... one should not create
a donnybrook. there are days when you avoid a donnybrook or being
caught inside the same. --------we see almost a hemmingway-esque
sublimination of an old merrie sport to these metaphysical net-battles.


truely! truely! truely! there must be brief lull in Rand Paul's continually energizing
momentum gathering senate run... for now our dilligent campaign manager guy hath made 4
replies in short succession and order insted of {{{ drumrolls}}} one sweet, terse and succinct one...

Aratus
07-24-2009, 09:25 AM
"First they ignore you - Then laugh at you and
hate you - Then they fight you - then you win”

Press on Matt!

yes... tis wise words!
also keep in mind
--TIME IS MONEY--

Matt Collins
07-24-2009, 11:35 AM
And you DO advocate theft; you just don't consider it that. http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=198492&highlight=music+download (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=198492&highlight=music+download) 2nd post. No, you're ignorant of the definition of theft. I've explained it multiple time, yet you refuse to accept current law and definitions on the subject.


Anyway, I like how you refuse to acknowledge the other, critical parts of my posts. Selective vision, once again.I only respond to what is worth responding to.

rockandrollsouls
07-24-2009, 12:05 PM
No, you're ignorant of the definition of theft. I've explained it multiple time, yet you refuse to accept current law and definitions on the subject.

I only respond to what is worth responding to.

No, you only want to hear what you want to hear and refuse to acknowledge any other valid argument. You just can't stand being shelled. Over you, buddy. :rolleyes:

I think if half of us were so blessed to be in your position right now, we would be taking greater advantage of the opportunity. Like I said, I'm not really surprised it's you that's grandstanding. It's the person I'd expect it from.

Matt Collins
07-24-2009, 12:47 PM
I think if half of us were so blessed to be in your position right now, we would be taking greater advantage of the opportunity. How so? You haven't provided any examples; please do.

rockandrollsouls
07-24-2009, 01:08 PM
How so? You haven't provided any examples; please do.

Matt, would you quit playing dumb?

How do you mean? If I were in your position I'd certainly be engaging the party more and attempting to sway them, rather than what you are doing, which is looking down your nose at everyone else. :rolleyes:

Matt Collins
07-24-2009, 01:46 PM
How do you mean? If I were in your position I'd certainly be engaging the party more and attempting to sway them, rather than what you are doing, which is looking down your nose at everyone else. :rolleyes:The Party of which I'm a Vice Chair is in an internal political deadlock at the moment. We're dysfunctional until some specific things happen. I'd rather not discuss the internals openly here. But trust me, if I could be using the official Party apparatus to promote liberty, I would be doing it. I can't so this is my only choice, at least at the moment.

He Who Pawns
07-26-2009, 12:34 PM
Matt, you are crying like a baby that people are "attacking" you, but don't you see the connection between your behavior and these attacks? You went for like 2 months or more without acting like an asshole, during which time NO ONE ATTACKED YOU.

Strange, huh?

These "attacks" are always a result of your own self aggrandizing behavior. When you act humble and normal, no one even attacks you here.

It's very odd that you cannot see the connection.

BTW, are you trying to deny that you launched a personal attack against a member of the Paul family on this forum? Need I remind everyone here about it?

Matt Collins
07-26-2009, 01:29 PM
Matt, you are crying like a baby that people are "attacking" you, but don't you see the connection between your behavior and these attacks? You are confused about the difference between discussion, debate, criticism, and a personal attack. You should try to learn the difference. :rolleyes:


BTW, are you trying to deny that you launched a personal attack against a member of the Paul family on this forum? Need I remind everyone here about it?And what would that be?:confused:

He Who Pawns
07-26-2009, 01:49 PM
Don't play dumb, Matt.

Matt Collins
07-26-2009, 02:00 PM
Don't play dumb, Matt.You made an accusation, now back it up! :mad:

He Who Pawns
07-26-2009, 02:29 PM
You know that you were badly humiliated here on this forum -- and condemned by basically everyone here -- when you posted a bizarre, unprovoked personal attack against Jesse Benton, a member of the Paul family.

Matt Collins
07-26-2009, 03:30 PM
You know that you were badly humiliated here on this forum -- and condemned by basically everyone here --
Not hardly. :rolleyes:



when you posted a bizarre, unprovoked personal attack against Jesse Benton, a member of the Paul family.



Your exaggeration of events is verging on libel.


Jesse Benton, an executive of the CFL, made a very disparaging remark against a fellow member of the CFL, friend, and patriot. In case you don't remember: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=175865 (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=175865&highlight=benton+egoroff)

He Who Pawns
07-26-2009, 03:35 PM
Why did you pretend like you didn't know what I was talking about, Matt?

The most interesting thing about what we are seeing from you now, Matt, is that you seem to have some kind of condition that is preventing you from being able to link your own behavior and posts here to the response that you are getting. Can't you see that your posts are causing this backlash? Can't you see the connection?

He Who Pawns
07-27-2009, 09:51 AM
hopefully this little incident will cause Collins to rethink his ways and reform himself, once again.

speciallyblend
07-27-2009, 10:05 AM
hopefully this little incident will cause Collins to rethink his ways and reform himself, once again.

look who is talking. you are most demotivating person! you basically turned me off to peter schiff!(figured you would donate in my place)

what are you even talking about?? please clarify what your problem is with matt?? reading this thread matt seems to have addresssed everyones concerns!

yongrel
07-27-2009, 10:30 AM
Your exaggeration of events is verging on libel.

Hahaha. I love it when people on the internet play lawyer.

"If you don't stop being mean to me, I'll sue you."

acptulsa
07-27-2009, 10:35 AM
Hahaha. I love it when people on the internet play lawyer.

"If you don't stop being mean to me, I'll sue you."

Yup. Especially when it's all political speech, and libel and/or slander suits are very nearly impossible to bring off.

Darn that pesky First Amendment anyway... :rolleyes:

Matt Collins
07-27-2009, 11:15 AM
"If you don't stop being mean to me, I'll sue you."And here you are being intellectually dishonest again. I never said that, nor did I ever even imply it. And you implying that I said that is absolutely false.

Matt Collins
07-27-2009, 11:17 AM
lwhat are you even talking about?? please clarify what your problem is with matt??He doesn't know. He just doesn't like me and thus attacks me every chance he gets.

yongrel
07-27-2009, 11:17 AM
And here you are being intellectually dishonest again. I never said that, nor did I ever even imply it. And you implying that I said that is absolutely false.

Waa!

He Who Pawns
07-27-2009, 11:24 AM
He doesn't know. He just doesn't like me and thus attacks me every chance he gets.



That's a lie, Collins. When you improved your behavior and stopped attention whoring, I treated you with respect and even gave some of your threads 5 stars. I can point to a long period here when you refrained from self-promotion and bizarre behavior, during which time I made ZERO negative posts about you. Look it up.

Again, you seem to be failing to make a connection between your own behavior and the way you are treated here. Behavior has consequences, Matt.

Mini-Me
07-27-2009, 11:54 AM
Wow, I didn't see this until today! I just read a few pages of the thread, and I read Matt's official rebuttal in the other thread. I thought it was pretty damn good...except the "complacent" at the end probably should have been "complicit," but that's just me nitpicking.

I understand what rockandrollsouls is saying, and it's possible that Matt's stance may backfire in the long run...but deep down in my gut, I feel that the US needs some more of this kind of "shocking" behavior to break out of the "politics as usual" mode. Expressing personal revulsion in an "I will not break bread..." gesture is a great way to get yourself attacked for rocking the boat, but at the same time it's a great way to set yourself apart from every other backstabbing, pandering, two-faced politician. There's something that deeply resonates with me about a politician making such a bold, no-nonsense statement about where he stands...and I think it taps into a lot of the feelings of anger and betrayal that a lot of Americans are feeling.

Apparently Matt has a history of grandstanding and acting like an ass, but I haven't paid enough attention to that to make a judgment of my own. Instead, I'm taking this incident in isolation: While it's easy to scold Matt and second-guess him for this, and it's pretty obvious that such an action was bound to stir up a bit of a shitstorm, I'm kind of hoping incidents like this will start to shake things up for good and change the two-faced character of American politics...and if we're lucky, maybe this kind of thing will actually catch on and draw support from the "no-nonsense, straight-talking" crowd in America.

Matt Collins
07-27-2009, 12:10 PM
That's a lie, Collins. When you improved your behavior and stopped attention whoring, I treated you with respect and even gave some of your threads 5 stars. I can point to a long period here when you refrained from self-promotion and bizarre behavior, during which time I made ZERO negative posts about you. Look it up.

Again, you seem to be failing to make a connection between your own behavior and the way you are treated here. Behavior has consequences, Matt.Sorry, how exactly did you have any authority as the person who decides which behavior is "socially acceptable" or not?! :confused: :rolleyes:

Where do you get the power to be the official judge and speak authoritatively on the subject?

Matt Collins
07-27-2009, 12:13 PM
I thought it was pretty damn good...Thank you.


I understand what rockandrollsouls is saying, and it's possible that Matt's stance may backfire in the long run...but deep down in my gut, I feel that the US needs some more of this kind of "shocking" behavior to break out of the "politics as usual" mode. Expressing personal revulsion in an "I will not break bread..." gesture is a great way to get yourself attacked for rocking the boat, but at the same time it's a great way to set yourself apart from every other backstabbing, pandering, two-faced politician. There's something that deeply resonates with me about a politician making such a bold, no-nonsense statement about where he stands...and I think it taps into a lot of the feelings of anger and betrayal that a lot of Americans are feeling.

While it's easy to scold Matt and second-guess him for this, and it's pretty obvious that such an action was bound to stir up a bit of a shitstorm, I'm kind of hoping incidents like this will start to shake things up for good and change the two-faced character of American politics...and if we're lucky, maybe this kind of thing will actually catch on and draw support from the "no-nonsense, straight-talking" crowd in America.Exactly. And it's a risk I'm willing to take. I am glad you realize this. :)


Apparently Matt has a history of grandstanding and acting like an ass, Only in the opinion of a minor few.

He Who Pawns
07-27-2009, 12:19 PM
Sorry, how exactly did you have any authority as the person who decides which behavior is "socially acceptable" or not?! :confused: :rolleyes:

Where do you get the power to be the official judge and speak authoritatively on the subject?

It's not just me, Collins. Every time you attention whore, grandstand, and try to make yourself the center of attention, by starting threads titled "I just spoke to Kokesh" or whatever, or pulling some bizarre stunt like this handhsake nonsense, or when you attacked Paul family member Jesse Benton out of the blue, a large number of members here, including moderators, have slammed you and humiliated you publicly as a consequence of your bizarre behavior.

You need to learn to make the connection between your behavior and the reaction online. What really alarms me is that someone with no social sense whatsoever, who keeps managing to land himself in hot water everyone couple of months here, would ever be trusted with any position of responsibility, like updating Rand's facebook page or whatever.

I am predicting right here and right now that Matt Collins will do something to embarrass Rand and possibly damage his campaign before all is said and done.

You can take that to the bank.

Matt Collins
07-27-2009, 12:34 PM
It's not just me, Collins. Every time you attention whore, grandstand, and try to make yourself the center of attention, by starting threads titled "I just spoke to Kokesh" or whatever, or pulling some bizarre stunt like this handhsake nonsense, or when you attacked Paul family member Jesse Benton out of the blue, a large number of members here, including moderators, have slammed you and humiliated you publicly as a consequence of your bizarre behavior.Again, completely untrue and conjecture. :rolleyes:


I make it a point to get the word out to as many people as possible. It's not my fault you are unable to distinguish between that and "grandstanding"


You need to learn to make the connection between your behavior and the reaction online. Really? I've had a 4:1 positive response on this issue.


What really alarms me is that someone with no social sense whatsoever, Riiiight.... that's how I got to be the de facto leader of the Nashville / TN RP'08 campaign. That's how I was able to win us 6 seats on the Nashville GOP. That's how I was able to become the Nashville CFL Coordinator, and the Vice Chair of the TN-RLC. :rolleyes:

If I have "no social sense whatsoever" then how exactly was I able to be as successful as we currently have been? :confused:


who keeps managing to land himself in hot water everyone couple of months here,I have never been in "hot water" here.. you however have been banned at least once. And if you keep attacking me it'll probably


I am predicting right here and right now that Matt Collins will do something to embarrass Rand and possibly damage his campaign before all is said and done.HA. It's all dependent upon one's perspective. :rolleyes:


Do you have anything else better to do besides attack me?

He Who Pawns
07-27-2009, 01:11 PM
Do you have anything better to do than grandstand and attention whore?

Why don't you stop talking about yourself, stop trying to put yourself at the center of attention, and start talking about liberty. If you do that, the "attacks" will cease instantly.

Matt Collins
07-27-2009, 01:14 PM
Do you have anything better to do than grandstand and attention whore?I am not grandstanding nor am I "attention whoring" :rolleyes:

He Who Pawns
07-27-2009, 02:28 PM
Matt, try this: Go for one month without making any posts that seek to aggrandize yourself, then wait and see if all the "hate" will stop. I bet you a million dollars that it will.

BarryDonegan
07-27-2009, 03:32 PM
I think that the posters in this thread who are critiquing the choices made by other activists who now hold elected positions in the GOP, something Ron Paul hopes to see happen, rather than armchair politicking from the Central Authority of your computer in God knows where, should focus more time and attention on activism and the spread of liberty in your own City and State.

For those who are criticizing the work for liberty we are doing on the ground in Nashville should probably focus the criticism on other towns where the ExCom does not contain 6 members of C4L.

Criticism does challenge us all and leads to improvements, thus is the nature of the grass-roots, but for so much critique to come to Nashville just because we are getting trashed by liberal newspapers... how many hit pieces and slams can we find of Dr. Paul?

in fact, i would almost guarantee, that when you become the subject of a local newspaper article or blog, it is, rather than an indicator of how poorly you are doing, actually an indicator of how much of a threat you are to the entrenched establishment, which, in Nashville, TN, is a chamber of commerce industrial complex.

They are scared of an actual anti corporate welfare GOP. What's worse is the small l libertarian swing is a great potential fit for the music industry identity of the city.

The C4L members active in the GOP here are actually in very good standing with a lot of the older Goldwater guys who actually often take a harder line against the RINOs. There is a reason 6 members got elected... and it took a lot of votes from the Goldwater old-schoolers to enable. They do the same things... it's how Tennessee works. We have a legislature that passed the 10th amendment bill. We have nightlife events for libertarian and free market ideas where elected officials and candidates often show up to talk ideas. Sometimes legislative action comes from things learned at these events ;) Tennessee is a lot like Texas when it comes to politics. It's gloves off, and people aren't that sensitive.

We may have a little disagreement during primary processes(we are in one for Governor in TN right now), but ultimately, in Nashville, the GOP has a full house of Democrats in our city and Federal Government. To that aim our backs are against the wall together, and we will have no problem uniting with them in OPPOSITION to the fascist statism that occurs here. There may be some primary season grandstanding to help define how strong our principles will be, but, ultimately, we will be united in strong opposition against the Obama Administration, and, with proper education, the chamber of commerce industrial complex which robs from the poor and middle class to give monopolies and corporate welfare to the rich.

There are different personalities in the C4L liberty movement in Nashville, some are more focused on tough love, others are more about emotionally communicating in a way that builds idea bridges. Both are equally necessary, and are very well represented here. We have some very notable converts, some of which might have even had some former political actions which were criticized on this very forums, who now are sending emails to other conservative leaders warning of things we have been talking about a long time.

It takes all kinds... whether its Patrick Henry's battle-cry or Benjamin Franklin's clever negotiations, there are different roles to bringing the visions of liberty into codified Rule of Law.

HRD53
07-27-2009, 04:05 PM
I think that the posters in this thread who are critiquing the choices made by other activists who now hold elected positions in the GOP, something Ron Paul hopes to see happen, rather than armchair politicking from the Central Authority of your computer in God knows where, should focus more time and attention on activism and the spread of liberty in your own City and State.

For those who are criticizing the work for liberty we are doing on the ground in Nashville should probably focus the criticism on other towns where the ExCom does not contain 6 members of C4L.

Criticism does challenge us all and leads to improvements, thus is the nature of the grass-roots, but for so much critique to come to Nashville just because we are getting trashed by liberal newspapers... how many hit pieces and slams can we find of Dr. Paul?

in fact, i would almost guarantee, that when you become the subject of a local newspaper article or blog, it is, rather than an indicator of how poorly you are doing, actually an indicator of how much of a threat you are to the entrenched establishment, which, in Nashville, TN, is a chamber of commerce industrial complex.

They are scared of an actual anti corporate welfare GOP. What's worse is the small l libertarian swing is a great potential fit for the music industry identity of the city.

The C4L members active in the GOP here are actually in very good standing with a lot of the older Goldwater guys who actually often take a harder line against the RINOs. There is a reason 6 members got elected... and it took a lot of votes from the Goldwater old-schoolers to enable. They do the same things... it's how Tennessee works. We have a legislature that passed the 10th amendment bill. We have nightlife events for libertarian and free market ideas where elected officials and candidates often show up to talk ideas. Sometimes legislative action comes from things learned at these events ;) Tennessee is a lot like Texas when it comes to politics. It's gloves off, and people aren't that sensitive.

We may have a little disagreement during primary processes(we are in one for Governor in TN right now), but ultimately, in Nashville, the GOP has a full house of Democrats in our city and Federal Government. To that aim our backs are against the wall together, and we will have no problem uniting with them in OPPOSITION to the fascist statism that occurs here. There may be some primary season grandstanding to help define how strong our principles will be, but, ultimately, we will be united in strong opposition against the Obama Administration, and, with proper education, the chamber of commerce industrial complex which robs from the poor and middle class to give monopolies and corporate welfare to the rich.

There are different personalities in the C4L liberty movement in Nashville, some are more focused on tough love, others are more about emotionally communicating in a way that builds idea bridges. Both are equally necessary, and are very well represented here. We have some very notable converts, some of which might have even had some former political actions which were criticized on this very forums, who now are sending emails to other conservative leaders warning of things we have been talking about a long time.

It takes all kinds... whether its Patrick Henry's battle-cry or Benjamin Franklin's clever negotiations, there are different roles to bringing the visions of liberty into codified Rule of Law.


Couldn't agree more with this sentiment. I didn't feel that it was necessary for Matt not to shake the guys hand, but ya know what? If you don't like it, then don't do it yourself, but get out there and do SOMETHING. At least Matt is out there fighting the good fight.

Matt Collins
07-27-2009, 04:38 PM
I think that the posters in this thread who are critiquing the choices made by other activists who now hold elected positions in the GOP, something Ron Paul hopes to see happen, rather than armchair politicking from the Central Authority of your computer in God knows where, should focus more time and attention on activism and the spread of liberty in your own City and State.

For those who are criticizing the work for liberty we are doing on the ground in Nashville should probably focus the criticism on other towns where the ExCom does not contain 6 members of C4L.Yeah basically that guy doesn't care, he is just has some sort of vendetta against me and attacks me at every opportunity.

He Who Pawns
07-27-2009, 04:40 PM
Matt, how do you explain that I stopped "attacking" you and treated you with due respect when you stop your self-aggrandizing behavior recently? Do you think this was a coincidence?

LibertyEagle
07-27-2009, 04:42 PM
Stop it, Pawns.

= STRIKE 1

yongrel
07-27-2009, 04:45 PM
I think it'd be a hoot to see both of them banned, just to shut them both up. If only one is banned, no matter which, the other will just gloat and make themselves more of a pain in the ass.

Banhammer x 2, please.

Anti Federalist
08-30-2014, 02:43 PM
And a bump


(shameless cross post)

From the article:



If you assimilate into the Borg, if you play nice, if you make sure you say and do and write and act in no way outside the "polite norms", you too will become "mainstream" and be able to partake in all the all benefits that accrue to having that label.

All that it requires is to jettison your soul, your heart and your principles.

*yawn*

Heard this story before, the only reason it's being written is because the hacks are nervous.

Good for Matt.

Deborah K
08-30-2014, 02:52 PM
Ahhh...yessss....back when Matt still had some credibility around here.

extortion17
08-31-2014, 09:21 AM
Yes, Stand tall matt!

Yeah, but as I remember from the Trey Grayson v. Rand GOP Senate primary in Kentucky . . .
I think Matt may "stand" more wide than "tall" . . . but . . . nevermind.

Best of luck.

bunklocoempire
09-02-2014, 11:23 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1F9vRVyV914

Feelgood
09-02-2014, 10:09 PM
Can we lock this? The necros lately are becoming rampant.

RJB
09-03-2014, 06:35 AM
Can we lock this? The necros lately are becoming rampant.

Ask Bobbyw24. He started this thread :)