PDA

View Full Version : Something I didn't really get.




BillyDkid
09-25-2007, 11:41 AM
I finally understood something I didn't really get before after reading something on Lew Rockwell's blog. It is in regard to this idea that Constitutional rights are only for Americans. I recognize that to hold that position affirms the idea that we are granted our rights by the government which is fundamentally wrong if you subscribe the ideas on which the country was founded (which most of us certainly do.) Fundamental to their philosophy is the notion that we are BORN with these rights and are not granted them by our rulers and they can neither give us these rights nor take them away (which of course, they have been perfectly content to do) and if ALL men are created equal and ALL men are endowed by their creator (whether that creator is "God" or just the forces that created the universe) certain unalienable rights, then everybody has these rights and governments and whether or not you are an American has nothing do to with it.

Wendi
09-25-2007, 12:23 PM
Which is why the prison camps in Guantanamo are so wrong...

ARealConservative
09-25-2007, 12:32 PM
Our government doesn't create our rights, they only protect them.

And I don't relish the prospect of using our government to protect the rights of non citizens - but that's just me.

DataSage
09-25-2007, 12:39 PM
Our government doesn't create our rights, they only protect them.

And I don't relish the prospect of using our government to protect the rights of non citizens - but that's just me.

Agreed. While we don't get our rights per se as indviduals from the state, we ARE in a social contract which prescribes the duties of the state to serve only citizens. In this case, administering the law, which is rooted in the constitution.

apropos
09-25-2007, 12:48 PM
History has shown that people aren't 'born' with any rights whatsoever. There is only what your society, government, or whatever will allow and protect for you. The best of these gives you more leeway than others.

But if freedom of speech, of religion, right to assembly, etc. was inborn, why has it proven the exception and not the rule? If they were the natural way of things, history would be replete with examples of these things.

johngr
09-25-2007, 12:55 PM
Our government doesn't create our rights, they only protect them.

Yeah, and they're every bit as good at it as the fox is at guarding the henhouse.

Green Mountain Boy
09-25-2007, 12:59 PM
History has shown that people aren't 'born' with any rights whatsoever. There is only what your society, government, or whatever will allow and protect for you. The best of these gives you more leeway than others.

But if freedom of speech, of religion, right to assembly, etc. was inborn, why has it proven the exception and not the rule? If they were the natural way of things, history would be replete with examples of these things.

You are presuming that because people are denied their rights, that they never had them to begin with. That is a false premise.

noxagol
09-25-2007, 01:11 PM
If people don't know they have something, they can't defend it.

constituent
09-25-2007, 01:14 PM
ok... now relate this to immigration policy

Marceline88
09-25-2007, 01:18 PM
I get my rights from my Creator, I was born a child of the omnipotent creator of the Universe, as we all are,......the US Constitution was created to declare that no government had the ability to take these God (or insert your word for the force that formed the cosmos, as it is your right to do so)-given attributes away from us and set it's words as the law of this land. The United States government was intended to protect freedom, life and liberty.....it was a radically new and enlightened form of governance created for, by and of the people.

Unfortunately we have been convinced otherwise and have accepted less than our birthright. Remember who you are and stand up to those who mistakenly believe they rule over you.


We have to defend the Constitution now....so that by our example not by force, other nations in other lands will declare these God-given rights for themselves. That's the idea.

PennCustom4RP
09-25-2007, 02:22 PM
The US Constitution preserves the natural born to rights of the American people. The US Constitution is not the World constitution, regardless of how some of you may wish it to be, and does not apply to those in other countries, or the citizens thereof. Other nations have their own Constitutions, whether they resemble the US Constitution, and its degrees of freedom is neither here nor there. This is what Sovereignty means, their right to make their law. This is the non-interventionist agenda, not to meddle in other governments policy, or affairs.
Our spreading of Freedom and Democracy has gotten us into trouble all to often. I personally find it a bit arrogant to think that we as a nation feel we have the right to impose our values on anyone or everyone. These values should be modeled by other nations if they are good values, ignored if they are not, but this should be a willing proposition, not one forced upon them. Otherwise you have a Colonial or Imperial agenda. If that nations Constitution is oppressive, their citizens can rise up and overthrow it.

Chester Copperpot
09-25-2007, 02:28 PM
I finally understood something I didn't really get before after reading something on Lew Rockwell's blog. It is in regard to this idea that Constitutional rights are only for Americans. I recognize that to hold that position affirms the idea that we are granted our rights by the government which is fundamentally wrong if you subscribe the ideas on which the country was founded (which most of us certainly do.) Fundamental to their philosophy is the notion that we are BORN with these rights and are not granted them by our rulers and they can neither give us these rights nor take them away (which of course, they have been perfectly content to do) and if ALL men are created equal and ALL men are endowed by their creator (whether that creator is "God" or just the forces that created the universe) certain unalienable rights, then everybody has these rights and governments and whether or not you are an American has nothing do to with it.

Correct... This is why I cringe everytime I hear somebody say "my Constitutional Rights"... like the Constitution grants the rights.. They do not.. they protect them from being infringed.. but they are inalienable rights.. A term that for some reason has been replace by the verbage "civil rights" which I find to be a gross misnomer.

Kregener
09-25-2007, 02:44 PM
While every person is born with God-given rights and free will, "OUR" Constitution is only the law of OUR land, and thus can only speak to OUR citizens.

The world shows us clearly that some people are perfectly happy living under oppressions without any rights.

Vvick727
09-25-2007, 02:50 PM
Even if the Constitution and the Bill of Rights was destroyed, we'd still have them.

We're not granted any rights by a piece of hemp paper, nor will these rights ever be taken away, no matter what the government decides to do.

Richandler
09-25-2007, 03:46 PM
The States is in a constant paying off debt mode. We aren't paying anything that isn't debt. When the balance the budget, which it isn't, they pay as much as they can and inheret extreme interest on billions of additional debt every year. You have to remember the US spends trillions of dollars. Isn't it amazing they get nothing done.

mkrfctr
09-25-2007, 03:49 PM
You may be born with those inalienable rights, but you have to fight! for your rights! ... to PAAARRRRTTTYYYYY!

Sorry.

But seriously, the rational that the rights are only protected by the government, and the government only has a duty to its citizens is why I support the Soylent Green Reduction of Uninvited Migrant Peoples That Invade Our States act or S.G.R.U.M.P.T.I.O.S. This act will take care of the immigration problem and our social security funding issues by lowering the payments and providing tasty, and nutritious government produced food instead that meets the nutritional needs of our senior citizens. I encourage you all to contact your representatives and urge them to act quickly in support of the S.G.R.U.M.P.T.I.O.S. act.