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View Full Version : US summons Israeli Ambassador on weekend, tells Israel to halt E. Jerusalem building




Liberty Star
07-19-2009, 10:44 AM
Does this mean Brack Husseain Obama was serious when he told Israel he did not want to see a single Israeli cement mixer on occupied arab land?

What is odd about this affair is that man behind this illegal settlement expansion is notorious instigator and US gambling and porn industry tycoon Irving Moskowitz.


19/07/2009

'U.S. tells Israel to halt East Jerusalem building'

By Avi Issacharoff, Haaretz Correspondent and Haaretz Service

Tags: settlements, Israel News


The United States has told Israel it must halt an East Jerusalem construction project in accordance with the Obama administration's demands for a complete freeze on settlement building, Israeli radio stations reported on Sunday.

The State Department summoned Israeli Ambassador Michael Oren over the weekend to advise him that the project developed by American millionaire Irving Moskowitz should not go ahead, according to both Israel Radio and Army Radio.

Moskowitz, an influential supporter of Israeli settlement in East Jerusalem, purchased the Shepherd Hotel in 1985 and plans to tear it down and build housing units in its place. The hotel is located near a government compound that includes several government ministries and the national police headquarters.


The approval, granted by the Jerusalem municipality earlier this month, allows for the construction of 20 apartments plus a three-level underground parking lot.


http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1101155.html


How far will US go if Israel did not stop?

Could US go as far as back to 1967 mindset when there was secret military option on the table to stop Israel from taking West Bank arab land?

Ideally US should not interefre in how they handle thier land dispute with arabs but could this pressure cause them to stop wanting to take US aid year after year?

specsaregood
07-19-2009, 11:22 AM
An what exactly is wrong with building an apartment complex? The guy already owns the land, why should he be stopped?

Liberty Star
07-19-2009, 11:47 AM
An what exactly is wrong with building an apartment complex? The guy already owns the land, why should he be stopped?

The land under International law belongs to someone else and building on occupied land is a violation of Int Law.

The US gambling guy seems just to be throwing his ill gotten money to realize some extremist ideology which doesn't appear even religious on the surface. It may be just some freakish ideology to grab others land.

angelatc
07-19-2009, 01:32 PM
We need to stay the hell out of it.

It isn't our land - that's where my interest in it stops.

Cowlesy
07-19-2009, 01:49 PM
See if we really meant it, we'd just pull our aid and they'd do exactly what we say.

But because we don't mean it, and they know it, they'll do whatever they want.

In fact, they should do whatever they want -- and we should simply stop feeding them.

Ever see the movie Problem Child?

Fozz
07-19-2009, 02:08 PM
We need to stop treating Israel like the darling of the world. Not only should they stop getting money from America's taxpayers, we need to also stay out of any conflict they have (such as Iran) and stay out of any military action that Israel will take against its Muslim enemies.

tonesforjonesbones
07-19-2009, 02:22 PM
Well, evidently Israel has been selling OCCUPIED land to others...now they will have to renig on their agreements because they were illegally made. TOnes

Liberty Star
07-19-2009, 04:59 PM
We need to stay the hell out of it.

It isn't our land - that's where my interest in it stops.

That would be so true if our left pocket was not married to their policies and there were not things like war on terra. We just announced 30 billion dollar in aid for them that is essential for them to maintain occupation of arab land.



See if we really meant it, we'd just pull our aid and they'd do exactly what we say.

But because we don't mean it, and they know it, they'll do whatever they want.

In fact, they should do whatever they want -- and we should simply stop feeding them.

Ever see the movie Problem Child?

Good point.

Liberty Star
07-19-2009, 05:03 PM
We need to stop treating Israel like the darling of the world. Not only should they stop getting money from America's taxpayers, we need to also stay out of any conflict they have (such as Iran) and stay out of any military action that Israel will take against its Muslim enemies.

The reason they have spent so much effort and money to cultivate lobbies in Washingtin is because they need our financial support and free bombs to be able to wage that war. On their own, their occupation of Palestinians probably would have ended decades ago.



Well, evidently Israel has been selling OCCUPIED land to others...now they will have to renig on their agreements because they were illegally made. TOnes

Seesm that way.






In other news, looks like it's on between Obama and Natenyahoo:



Israel rejects US call to halt Jerusalem project

By AMY TEIBEL, Associated Press Writer Amy Teibel, Associated Press Writer – 1 hr 55 mins ago
JERUSALEM – Israel on Sunday rejected a U.S. demand to suspend a planned housing project in east Jerusalem, threatening to further complicate an unusually tense standoff with its strongest ally over settlement construction.

Israeli officials said the country's ambassador to Washington, Michael Oren, was summoned to the State Department over the weekend and told that a project made up of 20 apartments developed by an American millionaire should not go ahead.

Settlements built on captured lands claimed by the Palestinians have emerged as a major sticking point in relations between Israel and the Obama administration because of their potential to disrupt Mideast peacemaking.

Although Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu recently yielded to heavy U.S. pressure to endorse the establishment of a Palestinian state, he has resisted American demands for an immediate freeze on settlement expansion.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090719/ts_nm/us_afghanistan_usa_soldier


This reminds one of this infamous and now banned Jerusalem video (dialog at 0:35) where some young American jewish extremists in Jerusalem are boasting how Natenyahoo would deal with Obama demands:

Caution: Video contains explicit language and racial slurs

YouTube - Feeling the Hate in Jerusalem (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhUb_1BX6_g)

Objectivist
07-19-2009, 05:06 PM
If you sell land it no longer belongs to you.

Sad that people who claim to be for states rights, freedom and liberty back immoral groups like the Palestinians who treat their women like fucking cattle and send their children to die with bombs strapped to their bodies. People who tell lies to their own blood to get them to murder Jewish children.

No character with people who support that mentality.

Liberty Star
07-19-2009, 05:12 PM
If you sell land it no longer belongs to you.

Sad that people who claim to be for states rights, freedom and liberty back immoral groups like the Palestinians ...



Arabs and Jews are exactly equal in the eyes of God, neither of them is inherently superior than the other.

Objectivist
07-19-2009, 05:15 PM
Arabs and Jews are exactly equal, neither of them is inherently superior than the other. That's God's will.

Arabs are rock stackers, Jews are Engineers and developers of an oasis is a hostile land.

Take the god bs and stick it.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Immigration/redeem.html

Liberty Star
07-19-2009, 05:20 PM
Arabs are rock stackers, Jews are Engineers and developers of an oasis is a hostile land.



Are you implying or stating that jewish race is a superior race than arab race?

Objectivist
07-19-2009, 05:22 PM
Seeing that you were shortsighted enough to pull a god into the topic, explain how you can say they are "equal" when one group commits suicide in the endeavor of murdering innocent human beings? I thought that god frowned on murdering your brother man and frowned on committing suicide?

Liberty Star
07-19-2009, 05:27 PM
I brought God into this because "God" is used as the main reason by most supporters of Israeli occupation and oppression in holy land as a way to suppress normal moral guilt perhaps.

But deep down, it could be racial extremism under the guise of religious extremism as apparently there is some litmus test of mothers blood type involved in how holy land settlements are zoned and alloted.

Objectivist
07-19-2009, 05:32 PM
Are you implying or stating that jewish race is a superior race than arab race?

No, just pointing out specific facts about the two groups.

One stacked rocks and the other built an oasis in a hostile land.

Objectivist
07-19-2009, 05:39 PM
Arabs sold land to Jews and you can't get around that. Then in America they just murdered everyone here and stole the land, interesting way of glossing over the realities and the similarities.

Liberty Star
07-19-2009, 05:42 PM
No, just pointing out specific facts about the two groups.

One stacked rocks and the other built an oasis in a hostile land.

I assumed everyone here would be above group think temptations and not too influenced by one sided MSM coverage of mideast.

Do you seriously believe that only one of these groups has monopoly over bad radical deeds? Do you know which of these two groups invented "suicide terrorism"?

Behaviors are product of environment, if roles are reversed their behaviors will do so too.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1101193.html

Objectivist
07-19-2009, 05:46 PM
So Jews who purchased land in binding legal arrangements should leave their property to give it to individuals that have no rights to it, but people like you should remain on land stolen from the natives of this country? Do you feel the same about what was done here in America? I'd love to hear your reasoning on that as well. Oh maybe the Indians don't count because they don't have a god?

Nice flag in your av you got there.

Fozz
07-19-2009, 05:50 PM
Arabs are rock stackers, Jews are Engineers and developers of an oasis is a hostile land.

Take the god bs and stick it.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Immigration/redeem.html
Racism is an ugly form of collectivism.

Unfortunately, you are a collectivist.
Don't deny it.........it can easily be seen in your posts.

someperson
07-19-2009, 05:52 PM
What the colle---nevermind ;)

If what was said is true, I wonder how Israel hasn't collapsed already. Do the engineers take shifts with the developers in bagging groceries, or are supermarkets in Israel run by individuals who do not label themselves as Jews?

Objectivist
07-19-2009, 05:55 PM
Racism is an ugly form of collectivism.

Unfortunately, you are a collectivist.
Don't deny it.........it can easily be seen in your posts.

ANd Arabs today as always have imported the ideas of others to build anything they have, well if you don't count the rock stacking bit in Egypt. Look at the Engineers they imported for the Oil Fields and the current buildings being developed in the ME. Water systems and power plants are all technologies from elsewhere. But hey maybe you can point to the major recent achievements in Gaza in the realm of technological advances.

Hell, most of the weapons being used in Gaza are imported from Iran.... Ah Persians!
Just facts Dude.

Fozz
07-19-2009, 06:00 PM
ANd Arabs today as always have imported the ideas of others to build anything they have, well if you don't count the rock stacking bit in Egypt. Look at the Engineers they imported for the Oil Fields and the current buildings being developed in the ME. Water systems and power plants are all technologies from elsewhere. But hey maybe you can point to the major recent achievements in Gaza in the realm of technological advances.

Hell, most of the weapons being used in Gaza are imported from Iran.... Ah Persians!
Just facts Dude.

LOL...the Middle East has had water systems since the Middle Ages, and the crusaders imported a lot of Arab accomplishments to their homeland. Learn to think outside the Ayn Rand box.

Objectivist
07-19-2009, 06:02 PM
LOL...the Middle East has had water systems since the Middle Ages, and the crusaders imported a lot of Arab accomplishments to their homeland. Learn to think outside the Ayn Rand box.

You mean when the Romans ran the region?

Liberty Star
07-19-2009, 06:02 PM
If we tried to apply political sensibilities/laws of olden times or even of 1-2 centuries ago today, most modern laws would end up being void and modern freedoms/rights would vanish. World is more "civilized" now and we have adopt to modernity. You are right, we did take Indians land but we have since taken measures to make up for that. US modern laws and Consitution are based on rights of liberty for all, and most of the the time we strive for that. Just as you seemed to condemn all Palestinians in previous post, we have at times condemned all Jewish people in America ( just few decades ago there used to be signs in parts of US saying "Jews and dogs not allowed" , an implement of group think taken to worst extreme. Jewish people have accomplished in many walks of life when environment changed, so have many arabs when environment is conducive. Iraqis and Palestinians are of same race/religion, only difference is environment. Why we are sacrificing our sons and daughters for "freedom" of these people but supporting continued occuption of the same people on another strip of land? Something to think about.

LibForestPaul
07-19-2009, 06:11 PM
ANd Arabs today as always have imported the ideas of others to build anything they have, well if you don't count the rock stacking bit in Egypt. Look at the Engineers they imported for the Oil Fields and the current buildings being developed in the ME. Water systems and power plants are all technologies from elsewhere. But hey maybe you can point to the major recent achievements in Gaza in the realm of technological advances.

Hell, most of the weapons being used in Gaza are imported from Iran.... Ah Persians!
Just facts Dude.

"Citizens! Do not believe that the Germany of misfortune and misery, the nation of corruption and usury, the land of Jewish corruption, can be saved by parties that claim to stand on a foundation of facts. Never!"
http://library.thinkquest.org/12307/media/73815.jpg

Objectivist
07-19-2009, 06:12 PM
If we tried to apply political sensibilities/laws of olden times or even of 1-2 centuries ago today, most modern laws would end up being void and modern freedoms/rights would vanish. World is more "civilized" now and we have adopt to modernity. You are right, we did take Indians land but we have since taken measures to make up for that. US modern laws and Consitution are based on rights of liberty for all, and most of the the time we strive for that. Just as you seemed to condemn all Palestinians in previous post, we have at times condemned all Jewish people in America ( just few decades ago there used to be signs in parts of US saying "Jews and dogs not allowed" , an implement of group think taken to worst extreme. Jewish people have accomplished in many walks of life when environment changed, so have many arabs when environment is conducive. Iraqis and Palestinians are of same race/religion, only difference is environment. Why we are sacrificing our sons and daughters for "freedom" of these people but supporting continued occuption of the same people on another strip of land? Something to think about.

I am right but I didn't take the Indians land. Then imposing laws on the Indians would be immoral would it not seeing that it was done by force and the Arabs sold land to the Jews.

Why don't the Palestinians stay where they are welcome and stop blaming the Jews for their own shortcomings. You can get back to me on your god scenario, I'd still like to hear the justification of murdering children by the means of suicide.

Objectivist
07-19-2009, 06:17 PM
"Citizens! Do not believe that the Germany of misfortune and misery, the nation of corruption and usury, the land of Jewish corruption, can be saved by parties that claim to stand on a foundation of facts. Never!"
http://library.thinkquest.org/12307/media/73815.jpg

You a big proponent of Hitler or something?

Liberty Star
07-19-2009, 06:19 PM
Why don't the Palestinians stay where they are welcome and stop blaming the Jews for their own shortcomings. You can get back to me on your god scenario, I'd still like to hear the justification of murdering children by the means of suicide.

Why, is it immoral to kill innocent children for some great divine cause?

After you answer that, share with us who has killed more innocent children, Israeli race or Palestinain race?

I believe God will punish harshly all those who kill children, women and civilians and probably has lined up some very harsh enhanced interrogation plans for them in next life. That's my view on that.

I have a question for you too. Do you believe that arabs and jews are equal as a people?

Objectivist
07-19-2009, 06:20 PM
Arabs sold land to the Jews and the Jews developed it. Now the Palestinians hate the Jews for accomplishing great things instead of replicating the very things that made Israel the jewel it is today.

Objectivist
07-19-2009, 06:23 PM
Of course they're equal... both die when shot with a weapon, but it's what you do as a man that sets you apart.

"I believe God punish harshly all those who kill children, women and civilians and probably some very harsh enhanced interrogation plans ready for them in next life. That's my view on that."

^^This explains the plight of the Palestinians quite nicely.^^^

Liberty Star
07-19-2009, 06:30 PM
Some people had said same about plight of jews few decades ago.

We clearly disagree, perhaps we have very different prisms of experiences through which we see the world.

Good night all. Was good discussion.

someperson
07-19-2009, 06:33 PM
Some individuals, who label themselves as Arabs, sold land to other individuals, who label themselves as Jews, and those who made the purchase, with international funding and the assistance of other individuals, developed it. Now, a minority of the individuals who label themselves as Palestinians hate the individuals who label themselves as Jews for accomplishing great things, with foreign aid (and bulldozing homes, misfiring missiles, nothing important), instead of replicating, without equivalent foreign assistance, the very things that made the state, Israel, the jewel it is today.

Hmm, I think the original quote sounds better ;) Collectivism sure makes things easier to manipu---understand.

Liberty Star
07-20-2009, 09:56 AM
Israel's largest newspaper in its editorial today puts this extremist mess in perspective:


20/07/2009

Playing with fire

By Haaretz Editorial

Tags: settlements, barack obama

The controversy surrounding the plan to create a Jewish enclave in the heart of the Palestinian neighborhood of Sheikh Jarrah in East Jerusalem is not another routine expression of the U.S.-Israel dispute over the settlements. The timing of the decision to build dozens of housing units in the Shepherd Hotel complex, at the height of efforts to reach an agreement on limited construction in the settlements, casts doubt over Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's willingness to enter serious negotiations on a final-status agreement. The support he granted the construction project yesterday, despite the vehement condemnations of America and Britain, show he is prepared to endanger Israel's most essential foreign relations for a provocative initiative led by Irving Moskowitz, the patron of right-wing organizations in East Jerusalem.

Netanyahu's agreement to hold talks based on the principle of "two states for two peoples" must also include readiness to discuss Sheikh Jarrah. Jerusalem is one of the most sensitive issues in the Israeli-Arab conflict. Arab states cannot be expected to normalize relations with Israel while the latter embarrasses them with construction projects in East Jerusalem.


Full editorial here:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1101416.html