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View Full Version : Arguing with a democrat over universal health care




muh_roads
07-17-2009, 06:26 PM
My mother again this time...just thought maybe you'd wanna read before I retaliate.

I sent her this link which I think is a slam dunk that talks about how to lower health care costs...
http://mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=279

She didn't really answer any of it specifically. She instead sent this...


Don't know that I agree with some of this stuff.

Are you aware of how many of us are endangered because of stupid things that were done to the environment for decades?

For example, those of us who were children in the '50's and lived in certain "hot spots" are supposed to be monitored somewhat frequently for thyroid cancer. I am one of them as Iowa is considered a hot spot -- particularly around Des Moines so I lucked out there a little bit. The problem is the cows eating grass and then us children drinking their milk. The grass was contaminated by nuclear fallout because above-ground-testing of nuclear bombs was done in the west and the winds carried it eastward. All of Kansas was especially bad. I do know of one classmate that had thyroid cancer many, many years ago. So far, I am ok.

This is just one small example of how many of us might eventually develop something really bad BECAUSE OF THE GOVERNMENT'S ACTIVITIES !!!!!!!!!! and then many of us could be denied health coverage because of pre-existing conditions --- THROUGH NO FAULT OF OUR OWN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I can't stress enough just how disgusted I am about the whole thing.

God only knows what's in the things we eat or drink, the medicines we ingest, the air we breathe and have breathed for a long time, and on and on. In fact, more and more contaminants are showing up in our drinking water -- and bottled water very often is no better than what comes out of our tap because a lot of it is also tap water from someplace else. Filters can remove only so much of it. You, Dad, Grandma, me -- could be victims of some of this crap and, frankly, I think the government owes it to each one of us to help us with the huge medical bills we may some day have just because the government was too lazy or corrupt and in bed with corporations that are knowingly polluting our ground water with putrid materials.

pcosmar
07-17-2009, 07:02 PM
Like banging your head on a brick wall
It feels so good when you stop.

angelatc
07-17-2009, 07:06 PM
Maybe the government *should* bear some responsibility, but how on earth can she actually believe they will?

Half of the cost of the government program comes straight out of the pockets of seniors. Your Mom is advocating taxing, and denying services to, her own Mom to pay for this boondoggle.

Epic
07-17-2009, 07:08 PM
CALCULATION ARGUMENT

http://mises.org/story/3428
http://mises.org/story/3543

There is no way for bureaucrats to calculate the correct prices and distribution of resources. They don't have the information.

This is not even arguable.


"This is just one small example of how many of us might eventually develop something really bad BECAUSE OF THE GOVERNMENT'S ACTIVITIES" -Mom

My take: it's like she's proving your point for you!! Why would she give the organization that is doing those bad things such power?

"I think the government owes it to each one of us" - Mom

My take: The government doesn't actually exist. It is a mental construct. There is no person that is the government.

muh_roads
07-17-2009, 07:37 PM
Half of the cost of the government program comes straight out of the pockets of seniors. Your Mom is advocating taxing, and denying services to, her own Mom to pay for this boondoggle.

really? seniors? will their SS payments be taxed more? Are they losing some medicare coverage?

Liberty Rebellion
07-17-2009, 07:41 PM
My mother again this time...just thought maybe you'd wanna read before I retaliate.

I sent her this link which I think is a slam dunk that talks about how to lower health care costs...
http://mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=279

She didn't really answer any of it specifically. She instead sent this...

So, where does the gubment get its money from? Me, you, and everyone else that pays taxes. Why should we be held accountable for the action of others and forced to pay out of pocket?

If she is so upset with the government abusing its powers then perhaps she should jump on the small-government or an-cap bandwagons and help strip the Feds of their power instead of punishing the rest of us for something we have no control over.

Objectivist
07-17-2009, 07:50 PM
There is not one government agency that has prevented food poisoning, it happens still and the only difference is it cost US the TAXPAYERS when there's a problem.

Water regularly is 'tainted' by one thing or another, dead animal, mudslides, etc... the government can't stop that either, but we pay them to pretend they do.

Epic
07-17-2009, 07:53 PM
There is not one government agency that has prevented food poisoning, it happens still and the only difference is it cost US the TAXPAYERS when there's a problem.

Water regularly is 'tainted' by one thing or another, dead animal, mudslides, etc... the government can't stop that either, but we pay them to pretend they do.

What's worse is people substitute the government's judgement for their own judgement, so they don't take adequate precautions.

Plus, we are forced to pay for this complacency.

Objectivist
07-17-2009, 07:58 PM
What's worse is people substitute the government's judgement for their own judgement, so they don't take adequate precautions.

Plus, we are forced to pay for this complacency.

And they water machine at the shopping center for idiots that insist on wasting their money on something that does little if anything at all.

You're correct.

SHould I have a personal armed government escort if I frequent rough neighborhoods? If the government is supposed to protect me, isn't that the duty of the government? Or would it be easier for me to carry a gun?

Steeleye
07-17-2009, 08:53 PM
I think it's time to check your mother into an institution.;)

Thesemindz
07-17-2009, 08:56 PM
I misread the topic of this thread.

I thought it said, "Wasting my precious time."

You do know you only have 30,000 days before you die right?

Why waste them doing this?


-Rob

Catatonic
07-17-2009, 09:05 PM
I don't understand her argument. 'They' put bad things in our food and water? Who does she think 'they' is?

Yes, there are neurotoxins, toxic waste, etc, in your food and water. GMO food also increases your risk for cancer. Guess what? All a big thumbs up and a green light from the FDA.

Find out the mercury content of high fructose corn syrup, show it to her and ask her if she knows why we don't use more natural cane sugar. If you don't know its because the government only allows us to import so much every year, to help the corn industry if I'm not mistaken.

This is the loving, caring government she wants to hand full control of her and your life over to. A bunch of bureaucratic prostitutes that look at you the same way the farmer looks at a cow.

muh_roads
07-18-2009, 10:58 AM
I think it's time to check your mother into an institution.;)

I've been saying that for a while. lol

She thinks government loves us when a dem is in power and then government hates us when the repubs take control. Very partisan thinking she has.