1984, Animal Farm e-books just got digitally burned [Archive]

sevin

07-17-2009, 02:37 PM

http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/17/some-e-books-are-more-equal-than-others/#

This morning, hundreds of Amazon Kindle owners awoke to discover that books by a certain famous author had mysteriously disappeared from their e-book readers. These were books that they had bought and paid for—thought they owned. (http://bit.ly/16SMsT)

But no, apparently the publisher changed its mind about offering an electronic edition, and apparently Amazon, whose business lives and dies by publisher happiness, caved. It electronically deleted all books by this author from people’s Kindles and credited their accounts for the price.

This is ugly for all kinds of reasons. Amazon says that this sort of thing is “rare,” but that it can happen at all is unsettling; we’ve been taught to believe that e-books are, you know, just like books, only better. Already, we’ve learned that they’re not really like books, in that once we’re finished reading them, we can’t resell or even donate them. But now we learn that all sales may not even be final.

As one of my readers noted, it’s like Barnes & Noble sneaking into our homes in the middle of the night, taking some books that we’ve been reading off our nightstands, and leaving us a check on the coffee table. You want to know the best part? The juicy, plump, dripping irony?

The author who was the victim of this Big Brotherish plot was none other than George Orwell. And the books were “1984” and “Animal Farm.”

Scary.

Mini-Me

07-17-2009, 02:39 PM

Thankfully, I think Amazon just killed their stupid product. :D

pcosmar

07-17-2009, 02:44 PM

So now that these people have been robbed, would they be justified in Pirating a copy??

acptulsa

07-17-2009, 02:48 PM

:rolleyes: And of course :rolleyes: this was a simple business decision :rolleyes: and the government had nothing :rolleyes: to do with it at all. :rolleyes:

disorderlyvision

07-17-2009, 02:52 PM

Well Mrs.Joe won't have to worry about it. She just won a copy of Animal Farm in one of my book giveaways.:D

Mini-Me

07-17-2009, 02:53 PM

Well, I'm not sure if the government did have anything to do with this one, unless establishment interests hold the copyright: The current copyright holders are pretty overzealous about copyright as it is. (http://www.boingboing.net/2007/03/28/1984-copyright-holde.html) Then again, considering the establishment loved Hillary...

heavenlyboy34

07-17-2009, 02:53 PM

:rolleyes: And of course :rolleyes: this was a simple business decision :rolleyes: and the government had nothing :rolleyes: to do with it at all. :rolleyes:

lolz ;)

ChaosControl

07-17-2009, 02:54 PM

Dr.3D

07-17-2009, 02:59 PM

Its pathetic that Amazon even has access to delete it after you "buy" it.
This stuff makes you want to pirate where you own it more than if you buy it.

Oh well, I far prefer normal books. I hate looking at a screen to read a novel.

Yep, it's pretty hard to beat print on paper. It's a lot harder to steal it from the rightful owner and it doesn't require electricity to be read. Imagine reading your computer screen via candle light.

tangent4ronpaul

07-17-2009, 03:21 PM

As a VERY good customer of theirs over the last decade +, and as a national level political organizer that can get a message out to a lot of people - I just threatened - er... "promiced" Amazon that if they did not coagulate their fecal matter, they would NOT like the results....

I suggest others send similar messages.

-t

Kade

07-17-2009, 03:25 PM

Good thing I have real copies of both.

That they can go into your property and effectively erase your property is disturbing to the highest order.

Kludge

07-17-2009, 03:26 PM

customers were issued credit for the full purchase price.

Kade

07-17-2009, 03:29 PM

customers were issued credit for the full purchase price.

Shouldn't that be at the discretion of the buyer?

This is equivalent to buying a movie at Best Buy, and then having them come into your house and take your copy, and leaving a charge receipt on your table.

If I want a refund, I will return my product back to them.

Deborah K

07-17-2009, 03:29 PM

How ironic that it was Orwell's books. Can it get any more ironic than that? Any idea WHY they did it? Not that it matters really. I will never use kindle now.

I'm happy with my library. My books mean everything to me.

CCTelander

07-17-2009, 03:47 PM

I'm not sure I get this. What exactly IS a "Kindle?"

If they actually deleted these off of people's computers, this is outrageous.

Kludge

07-17-2009, 03:50 PM

Shouldn't that be at the discretion of the buyer?

Ideally.

This is equivalent to buying a movie at Best Buy, and then having them come into your house and take your copy, and leaving a charge receipt on your table.

If I want a refund, I will return my product back to them.

Fair value was returned. I don't think it's fair to use an example where Best Buy enters your home, but otherwise, I don't see too much reason for outrage over the issue.

.... Hm. Actually, rethinking this, I can't stop comparing this to eminent domain.

Kludge

07-17-2009, 03:51 PM

I'm not sure I get this. What exactly IS a "Kindle?"

If they actually deleted these off of people's computers, this is outrageous.

Kindle is an e-book reader. So yes, they are essentially deleting the data off people's computers.

http://www.amazon.com/Kindle-Amazons-Wireless-Reading-Generation/dp/B00154JDAI/ref=amb_link_84770351_1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-1&pf_rd_r=0322HBQVT6JJN3ZPTZE6&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=483803591&pf_rd_i=507846

torchbearer

07-17-2009, 03:56 PM

Kindle is an e-book reader. So yes, they are essentially deleting the data off people's computers.

http://www.amazon.com/Kindle-Amazons-Wireless-Reading-Generation/dp/B00154JDAI/ref=amb_link_84770351_1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-1&pf_rd_r=0322HBQVT6JJN3ZPTZE6&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=483803591&pf_rd_i=507846

seems like that is trespassing to me.

Sandman33

07-17-2009, 03:57 PM

ChaosControl

07-17-2009, 03:58 PM

Ideally.

Fair value was returned. I don't think it's fair to use an example where Best Buy enters your home, but otherwise, I don't see too much reason for outrage over the issue.

.... Hm. Actually, rethinking this, I can't stop comparing this to eminent domain.

Eminent domain seems like an accurate comparison, they are both equally revolting and fine displays of how we really own nothing at all.

ChaosControl

07-17-2009, 03:59 PM

CCTelander

07-17-2009, 04:01 PM

Yet another great argument against IP.

tangent4ronpaul

07-17-2009, 04:04 PM

WRITE AMAZON! - Tell them how pissed of you are!

Tell them to reverse this decision or never see your business again!

-t

jrkotrla

07-17-2009, 04:04 PM

Ok, been seeing a lot of hubbub about this. here's what happened.

Copyright varies across the world, in some countries these books are in the Public Domain. Someone in one of those countries uploaded a public domain work and sold it online. (completely legal).

problem is, here in the US, they are not public domain so it is a violation of copyright. People who purchased the books from the actual publisher didn't have their copies removed and their money refunded, the copies that were deleted were those that were purchased from someone in another country pretending to be authorized to sell them in the US

Amazon is protecting itself from potential suit as this could be seen as enabling copyright infringment.

Having said that, I will never buy a kindle, or an I-Pod, or anything else where the companies have the ability to remove things I've paid for.

american.swan

07-17-2009, 04:04 PM

What's more stupid is that Animal Farm is free online in many languages. Why pay for it?

Kludge

07-17-2009, 04:05 PM

Why would you buy an E book anyway? Thats retarded. It can be deleted by accident or THIS weird copywright thing could happen. Your cpu could get hacked or your hard drive could crash. etc.

Plus if the shit hits the fan and theres no power....you cant read it.

I'd download a book for free but if I'm buying a book I want paper.

All of your purchases are saved at Amazon's website, so if your Kindle were to crash, you could re-download all of your purchases after the unit is repaired or replaced, IIRC. I believe the Kindle also connects to some type of wireless network similar to EV-DO, as well as wi-fi, but I might be wrong about that.

It doesn't require much power. I imagine a tiny solar kit would work.

LibForestPaul

07-17-2009, 04:42 PM

A Kindle is a feel-good leftist yuppie product. No trees were killed in the making of this book.
Like driving a hybrid suv. Lame, very very lame.

LibForestPaul

07-17-2009, 04:43 PM

P.S. If you think the Amazon is heavy handedd, better take a look at what Apple is pumping out.

roho76

07-17-2009, 04:48 PM

I guess that means they got rid of 1984 from youtube, too.

YouTube - 1984 ~~ Part : 01 of 12 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xns67AVkOeI)

Doh!

And what about Animal farm?

YouTube - George Orwell - Animal Farm (ENGLISH Part 1/8) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bd4UJwldQ0)

Doh! Doh!

I love TPB.

Mini-Me

07-17-2009, 05:01 PM

Shouldn't that be at the discretion of the buyer?

This is equivalent to buying a movie at Best Buy, and then having them come into your house and take your copy, and leaving a charge receipt on your table.

If I want a refund, I will return my product back to them.

Exactly. "Fair value" doesn't matter here, because as Conza would say, "value is subjective." If you previously agreed to exchange your money for the book and Amazon agreed, then clearly you valued the book more highly than the money, and clearly Amazon valued the money more highly than the book. It was a fair trade because both sides obtained what they wanted...and it's not Amazon's place to go back and unilaterally cancel that trade without your consent.

Furthermore, this highlights the dangers of buying into technologies that the consumer has no control over: If something like the Kindle were ever to literally replace physical books (say 100 years from now), censors could easily silence entire publishings. Thankfully that will never happen without the government taking control of the publishing industry or mandating that all books be digital and centrally controlled, since there's a high enough demand for real books...but it goes to show why the "real thing" is so superior.

pcosmar

07-17-2009, 05:18 PM

Your rights under this Agreement will automatically terminate without notice from Amazon if you fail to comply with any term of this Agreement. In case of such termination, you must cease all use of the Software and Amazon may immediately revoke your access to the Service or to Digital Content without notice to you and without refund of any fees.

Amazon, Kindle Terms of Service

You may not sell, rent, lease, distribute, broadcast, sublicense or otherwise assign any rights to the Digital Content or any portion of it to any third party, and you may not remove any proprietary notices or labels on the Digital Content. In addition, you may not, and you will not encourage, assist or authorize any other person to, bypass, modify, defeat or circumvent security features that protect the Digital Content.

Amazon, Kindle Terms of Service, 2007
Read the EULA
It will save you from wasting your money.

Also related
http://www.teleread.org/2009/07/06/e-books-standards-cory-doctorows-pesky-questions-about-the-kindle/

CoreyBowen999

07-17-2009, 05:25 PM

Dude we read Animal Farm in 10th grade and for 11th grade this year we are reading 1984... I CANT WAIT

Mini-Me

07-17-2009, 06:16 PM

Dude we read Animal Farm in 10th grade and for 11th grade this year we are reading 1984... I CANT WAIT

Technically, you don't have to wait. ;)

angelatc

07-17-2009, 07:21 PM

A lawyer points out that Amazon just breached their contract with Kindle owners:

http://www.technicallylegal.org/amazon-breaches-kindle-user-contracts/

Amazon Breaches Kindle User Contracts July 17, 2009

← De-FUD: Photographs of Paintings and TWiT:203

Amazon recently deleted copies of 1984 by George Orwell from both Kindles and the Kindle store.

The Kindle User License Agreement clearly states:

Upon your payment of the applicable fees set by Amazon, Amazon grants you the non-exclusive right to keep a permanent copy of the applicable Digital Content and to view, use, and display such Digital Content an unlimited number of times, solely on the Device. . .

So Amazon is pretty clearly in breach of their contract to Kindle users who purchased the book, as Amazon did not allow them to keep a permanent copy of the book on their device.

sluggo

07-17-2009, 07:28 PM

I'll buy a Kindle just as soon as they become PDF friendly.

It's a really neat technology that's still in it's awkward (and expensive) stage.

torchbearer

07-17-2009, 07:29 PM

A lawyer points out that Amazon just breached their contract with Kindle owners:

http://www.technicallylegal.org/amazon-breaches-kindle-user-contracts/

good find.

Neal Jiutai

07-17-2009, 08:33 PM

I'd like to see them try to delete our copies of Atlas Shrugged. You know, the ones we've laser-engraved on 1,096 fine gold plates and burried in our backyards of course.

literatim

07-17-2009, 08:49 PM

The Cybook Gen3 and Sony Reader PRS-505/700 are much better than the Kindle simply because of the formats they support. With either you can go to stores that sell non-DRM books that cannot be forcibly deleted from your reader. Kindle is just a crappy example of the usage of ebook technology.

No1ButPaul08

07-17-2009, 09:34 PM

A lawyer points out that Amazon just breached their contract with Kindle owners:

http://www.technicallylegal.org/amazon-breaches-kindle-user-contracts/

I just looked over the terms of the Kindle use and this is correct. There is absolutely nothing that says they can take content back they've already sold. As the quote states users are granted a permanent copy once content is purchased.

coyote_sprit

07-17-2009, 09:38 PM

This is why I believe in using things that only have open hardware that is at my discretion. Though I don't like this being done I see nothing wrong with it.

coyote_sprit

07-17-2009, 09:40 PM

I just looked over the terms of the Kindle use and this is correct. There is absolutely nothing that says they can take content back they've already sold. As the quote states users are granted a permanent copy once content is purchased.

How about no more firmware updates or book downloads until you agree to a new terms or service.

buffalokid777

07-17-2009, 09:45 PM

Eminent domain seems like an accurate comparison, they are both equally revolting and fine displays of how we really own nothing at all.

Eminent Domain is a poor comparison, just ask the people in New London, Connecticut who were offered a fraction of what they owed on their morgatge and were told they would have to pay legal fees if they didn't vacate the premises for lowball offers. The ebooks received fair value in return, the eminent domain people in New London got ripped off with mortgages owed far in excess of what they were offered, of properties stolen from them by the state.

Bruno

07-17-2009, 09:48 PM

The irony of this is mindblowing

Omphfullas Zamboni

07-17-2009, 11:32 PM

I guess that means they got rid of 1984 from youtube, too.

YouTube - 1984 ~~ Part : 01 of 12 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xns67AVkOeI)

PARTS 6 AND 8 FROM GEORGE ORWELLS
1984,HAVE BEEN REMOVED BY YOUTUBE.

After being flagged by members of the YouTube community and reviewed by YouTube staff,
the videos have been removed due to its inappropriate nature.

Son of Detroit

08-01-2010, 11:13 AM

PARTS 6 AND 8 FROM GEORGE ORWELLS
1984,HAVE BEEN REMOVED BY YOUTUBE.

After being flagged by members of the YouTube community and reviewed by YouTube staff,
the videos have been removed due to its inappropriate nature.

Pretty sure the movie had some scenes with nudity. Nudity isn't allowed on youtube.

EDIT: Oops. Forgot I was reading an old thread. Sorry for bumping.

*embarrassed*