On saving the country...

[MsDoodahs]

What is it we are saving the country from? An out of control central government?

Is it even possible to tame the monster fed gov?

If not - should the country be saved?

If we don't "save the country," will it break up into smaller countries?

Would that be better or worse?

[malkusm]

I've thought recently that the easiest way to tame the federal government is for the states to force their hands. It can't be hard to get a state like Texas or New Hampshire to simply say "If the Cap and Trade bill passes, we will not enforce nor comply with the mandates imposed by the legislation." By passing such resolutions in state legislatures in several states, and doing this on several key pieces of legislation that are clearly out of control, this would eat away not only at the options that DC has, but also at the perception among the public that the federal government is too big to be influenced or controlled.

Like I've said before - while I am encouraged by the states which passed the 10th amendment re-affirmation resolutions (or "state sovereignty resolutions"), these really have no tangible consequences and will be treated as such. States need to start passing legislation that specifically says "We will not abide by this authoritarian, unconstitutional bill for the following reasons:" and then STICK TO IT.

[MsDoodahs]

Refusing to comply with orders ... is that saving the country or a step towards breaking up?

[malkusm]

Could be either one; in either case, the citizens of those states are then free of the tyranny of the federal government. Of course, guards need to be put in place to keep the same things from happening, were secession to occur - but secession would take diligence and would be resisted by the feds.

Let's say a few states consistently passed resolutions saying that they would not comply with laws being passed. DC lawmakers could respond to these actions in several ways:

1) Re-evaluate their stance on what laws should and should not pass, given that certain laws would be strongly resisted even if passed.

2) Use force to achieve compliance in the several states.

3) Do nothing.

#1 and #3 achieve more freedom for these states and erode a lot of power away from the federal government. #2 exposes the tyranny of the feds and would (I hope) cause people to be alarmed that their government is using such force to achieve their ends....although this can't happen without constant education and awareness being promoted by groups like us.

[acptulsa]

Refusing to comply with orders ... is that saving the country or a step towards breaking up?

Depends--are there a significant number of thieves in Washington who at least have enough sense to blink?

[MsDoodahs]

Depends--are there a significant number of thieves in Washington who at least have enough sense to blink?

"95% of the calls to my office are against this bill...so I'm voting FOR it."

You tell me, Tulsa.

lol...

[acptulsa]

"95% of the calls to my office are against this bill...so I'm voting FOR it."

You tell me, Tulsa.

lol...

:( Coburn gave such a lovely diatribe against the first bailout--right before he voted for it.

We've got to take over the county parties and volunteer to help with (and help supervise) our county voting aparatus. Either that or scrap the whole damned thing. In any case, we've got to get off our asses before the lead starts flying or we'll never prevent it from flying...

[mediahasyou]

It is better that this government dies. We have all seen what happened to the limited government this country once had. It never lasted.

It is time society tries something new.

[klamath]

"95% of the calls to my office are against this bill...so I'm voting FOR it."

You tell me, Tulsa.

lol...

And then the people reelect that person so why should they care.

[acptulsa]

And then the people reelect that person so why should they care.

Yup. And we need to get under the dynamic behind that and see what we can do to it. In my rep's case we have a lot of people who vote for Republicans--any Republican--simply because they pay lip service to ending abortion. I'm having some luck making people see that it's only lip service...

[Anti Federalist]

What is it we are saving the country from? An out of control central government?

Is it even possible to tame the monster fed gov?

If not - should the country be saved?

If we don't "save the country," will it break up into smaller countries?

Would that be better or worse?

I suppose it would depend on what the definition of "country" is.

Is it blind allegiance to arbitrary lines drawn on map and a brightly colored piece of cloth?

Or is it a common heritage and shared values of a cohesive people?

[MsDoodahs]

I suppose it would depend on what the definition of "country" is.

Is it blind allegiance to arbitrary lines drawn on map and a brightly colored piece of cloth?

Or is it a common heritage and shared values of a cohesive people?

Right now, we're the former.

Maybe we'll become the latter?

[Elwar]

Screw saving the country...I'm trying to save myself.

[acptulsa]

Screw saving the country...I'm trying to save myself.

Uh oh. There's a death knell...

Can we at least talk you into helping save 'the women and children first'?

[phill4paul]

Refusing to comply with orders ... is that saving the country or a step towards breaking up?

It's a step back. A step back in time. To a time when the nation was broken up into individual united (lowercase u) States that formed a collective for protection.

State powers were never meant to be usurped by a Federal authority that would hold these individual States at gun point to make the individuals States do what the Federal authority re-imagines the Constitution to be.

The sooner we go back to the way it was the better.

[acptulsa]

That's another dialectic they get a lot of mileage out of, and which we need to defuse and defang. They always make it sound like our agenda is anti-progress, destructive, and just generally negative. Of course, liberty is positive, destruction of evil is good, and a bourgeoning bureaucracy is not progress. We need to turn that silly perception around, and see if we can help people perceive the truth instead.