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Rael
07-14-2009, 11:28 PM
College grad: ‘I wish I’d gone to prison instead’
Posted: Tuesday, May 12 2009 at 05:00 am CT by Bob Sullivan

Hernan Castillo is treading water, trying to survive under the weight of $5,200 in credit card debt and $30,000 in student loans. He’s making payments on time, but the Orange County, Calif., resident sees little hope for getting out of the warehouse job he holds and landing a job as an accountant, the field in which he earned his degree. And forget about saving money for a home or retirement. He now firmly believes the money he spent earning a college degree was a waste.

"Every day I wish I had never gone to college,” Castillo said. “It has been the biggest mistake of my life. Sometimes I wish I had gone to prison instead of college. At least I would have learned a trade or two and started being independent once I got out."

Castillo is one of thousands of student debtors who've found their way to the StudentLoanJustice.org Web site, propelled by last year’s credit squeeze and the abrupt economic downturn, according to Alan Collinge, who runs the site.

A recent study by Sallie Mae shows college student credit card debt is skyrocketing. Graduates leave school with 41 percent more credit card debt than four years ago, with one in five owing at least $7,000 on plastic by the time they get their diploma. Worse yet, the study showed that more students – 22 percent -- make the minimum payment each month than the 17 percent who pay their bills in full. A full 82 percent said they carried balances each month, and were forced to pay finance charges, far more than the national average of about 50 percent.

Meanwhile, there are signs that student loan default rates are rising. It's too early to see the impact of the credit collapse of 2008 -- there's nearly a two-year time lag after graduation before students are officially in default on their loans. But the most recent data shows 7 percent of students who began repaying loans during 2006-2007 had defaulted by September 2008, the highest rate in 10 years.

Both types of debt work as a one-two punch to the finances when students graduate.

"It's quite typical that a borrower in trouble with student loans has significant credit card debt," said Collinge, who recently published a book titled “The Student Loan Scam.” "It's causing severe distress."

But perhaps the knockout blow for recent graduates is this: They are entering the toughest job market in years. A recent survey by the National Association of Colleges and Employers found that only 20 percent of 2009 graduates who've applied for jobs have been hired, compared to a success rate of 51 percent in 2007.

A deeper look at student credit card debt

Signs of credit distress are obvious in the Sallie Mae study. The number of students who graduate with more than $7,000 in debt has doubled in the last four years. And they're racking up debt much earlier in life. Four years ago, 69 percent of freshmen had a zero balance on their credit cards, but only 15 percent now say they pay their bill in full each month.

Nine in 10 students said they used plastic to pay for school expenses like textbooks, and the amount they've charged has more than doubled. Four years ago, students told researchers they charged $942 for school costs. The recent study found that figure had climbed to $2,200.

The problem is simple, Tamara Draut, author of “Strapped: Why America's 20- and 30-Somethings Can't Get Ahead.” Credit cards are being used to cover rising school costs because there is no other source to tap, says Draut, who criticizes U.S. college funding as a "debt for diploma" system.

"There's a lot of reasons why this is happening,” said Draut, who is also vice president for policy and programs at Demos, a New York City think tank. “The cost of education keeps going up, and financial aid hasn't kept up with that increase. So students make up the difference by charging things."

It doesn't help that credit card companies invade college campuses each year, promising everything from free pizzas to free iPods to rock-bottom interest rates in order to entice students. Many colleges receive financial compensation from banks for giving them access to students. Some states, including Connecticut, are considering bans on certain college marketing practices.

New national credit card regulations currently being considered by Congress will help, Draut said. The Credit Card Users Bill of Rights passed recently by the House will prevent retroactive rate hikes in some cases, a practice that traps many college students who pay their bills a few days late and find their 5.9 percent rate jacked up to 29.99 percent. In some cases, that practice would be barred by the House bill.

And in July, a new federal program that allows former students to cap their monthly loan payments at 15 percent of their income kicks in. The program is designed to provide relief to graduates who enter traditionally lower-paying sectors like teaching or social work. In some fields, public service loan forgiveness will be available after 10 years of payments, and graduates working in any field will have their remaining balances forgiven after 25 years.

"Graduates should look into all their options," Draut said. Income-based repayment can be a lifeline for some graduates, she said, and the 25-year limit provides light at the end of the tunnel.

The program has limitations, however. For example, only federally sponsored loans are included. Private student loans are not.

Meanwhile, Collinge warned that students who chose to limit their payments based on income and don't cover the standard monthly payment, simply have the difference added to the balance of the loan. That means higher interest charges.

"Income based repayment is a pretty good program for current and future students, but there are some serious risks associated with it,” he said. “If the borrower falls out of the program for any reason, they get socked with a huge balance.” That means income-based repayment will be right for many graduates, a mixed bag for some and a bad choice for others, he said.

Students and former graduates like Castillo face a long series of such complicated choices. For example, while it might seem obvious that student loan debt is better than credit card debt, that’s not always the case.

Federal student loans have lower interest rates and more generous repayment terms. In fact, the annual interest owed on a $48,000 federal student loan is less than the annual interest on an $8,000 credit card balance on a high-interest card.

But students who take on private student loans have a less clear choice. Private loans can assess credit-card-like interest rates as high as 20 percent. And graduates who run into financial trouble later in life have more legal options to rid themselves of credit card debt. For instance, student debt cannot be discharged in bankruptcy, while credit card debt can.

Castillo, who is struggling under the weight of both credit card and student loan debt, wishes he knew a lot more about the system before he went to school.

He's currently paying $300 per month on his student loans and about the same toward credit cards, but at 30, he feels he'll never get ahead. There's no hope of going back to school for retraining, and he’s already very worried about retirement.

"I wish I could go back in time," he said. "When I signed those (loan) papers I never thought it would come to this point. I thought it would be easy to pay it back. I wish I had never gone to college."

FSP-Rebel
07-14-2009, 11:37 PM
I'm glad that i took care of my cc debt before graduating recently. I still have loans to pay back though. I should be just fine though. PI work is the way to go. It pays phat.

0zzy
07-15-2009, 12:20 AM
why do people love to copy and paste things from websites without even citing source? me don't understand.

and I'm still going to college, yet it seems that Lew rockwell and a lot of libertarian think tanks just think college is a waste of time somehow. even though lew rockwell got his degree and thomas woods went to harvard and columbia. -.-

Warrior_of_Freedom
07-15-2009, 12:45 AM
Oh fuck that. People should have the common sense not to buy things they can't pay for. I never went one cent in debt going to college. I worked and got scholarships to supplement me. If I couldn't pay for college I wouldn't go. I wouldn't gamble the risk of not even being able to get a job and having a huge debt. I was right, because I can't even find a job right now.

revolutionisnow
07-15-2009, 12:58 AM
Wonder how much better off he would be if he took 1 or 2 community college courses and used up to 30k to start his own business?

0zzy
07-15-2009, 01:02 AM
Wonder how much better off he would be if he took 1 or 2 community college courses and used up to 30k to start his own business?

He lives in California, community college is 20$ per credit hour here (very cheap). 2years community, 2 years public school, work, scholarships, grants, etc.

but I can't criticize, my parents are paying for my community college and I can't find a job and really have no solid plan to pay for University (starting fall 2010). Need to find some grant money and scholarships.

muh_roads
07-15-2009, 01:03 AM
Everyone talks about "we have to get loaning going again". His site and story is the perfect case for why banks must NOT loan. Colleges are a business. If people can't take out the outrageously large loans, then the business must reduce their costs.

Sandman33
07-15-2009, 01:53 AM
Yeah California is FUCKED. I can tell you first hand that starting a business here is a complete waste of time.

The democrats have held the borders open for free votes and promised degenerates and immigrants free shit at our expense for much too long and now the lefty socialist house of cards is falling. The taxpayers shoulders nd the business owners shoulders are only SO big...and we cant support all the shit they are shoveling on them.

CALIFORNIA IS FUCKED...and it's quite sad actually since its about the 5th largest economy in the entire WORLD and should be HUGELY profitable but is completely bankrupt and corrupt.

Steeleye
07-15-2009, 02:43 AM
This reminds me. I'm about to enter a community college this fall, looking to save up some money before heading off to a four year school. My single, working mother and I have little savings and the job market in New Jersey is awful. I applied for financial aid through the school and was offered a federal Pell grant. I know this is not the federal government's job according to the constitution, however with car payments, auto insurance, monthly bills, school fees, etc., I don't think I'll be able to make ends meet even if I am able to find a part time job, likely at minimum wage. My question is, would it be wrong for me to accept the grant? That's the last thing I want to do, but it's looing increasingly necessary. Has anyone else had this problem?

Kludge
07-15-2009, 02:51 AM
why do people love to copy and paste things from websites without even citing source? me don't understand.

and I'm still going to college, yet it seems that Lew rockwell and a lot of libertarian think tanks just think college is a waste of time somehow. even though lew rockwell got his degree and thomas woods went to harvard and columbia. -.-

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=College+grad%3A+%E2%80%98I+wish+I%E2%80%99d+gon e+to+prison+instead%E2%80%99+Posted%3A+Tuesday%2C+ May+12+2009+at+05%3A00+am+CT+by+Bob+Sullivan

College is useful if you're going to make something of yourself. Not so much if you're doing it because "it's what successful people do".


My question is, would it be wrong for me to accept the grant?

Depends whether or not you believe aggression justifies aggression ("self-defense").

tron paul
07-15-2009, 02:55 AM
I advise all the student loan debtors to just stop paying.

We were sold the debt under duress, told that a (crypto-masonic) morterboard & tassle was 'like a union card.'

To hell with that. Let them eat default.

Kludge
07-15-2009, 02:59 AM
I advise all the student loan debtors to just stop paying.

We were sold the debt under duress, told that a (crypto-masonic) morterboard & tassle was 'like a union card.'

To hell with that. Let them eat default.

To hell with you, I say... Burdening me with your failure. Jesus.

Steeleye
07-15-2009, 03:10 AM
Depends whether or not you believe aggression justifies aggression ("self-defense").

Who's the aggressor and who's the defender?

Kludge
07-15-2009, 03:14 AM
Who's the aggressor and who's the defender?

You've paid (and you'll pay, and your parents paid) taxes. I think it would be reasonable to classify taking a gov't grant as trying to survive while the government continues thieving from you... Only slightly more gray than a tax deduction.

To directly answer your question, though, the gov't would be the aggressor and you'd be the "defender".

Steeleye
07-15-2009, 03:21 AM
That makes sense. I'm essentially getting my money, and also my parents' money they were unable to invest in me, due to taxes, back. Also, my mom tells me if I don't take someone else will.

tron paul
07-15-2009, 03:40 AM
To hell with you, I say... Burdening me with your failure. Jesus.

How is a victory over the debt industry a failure? I'd rather 'fail' than pay in any case. Besides, the Gov already stole the money from my family in advance.

Thanks for conceding my duress argument, without a whimper of protest.

Enjoy paying your Masonic Union Dues, sucker. :D

OH HOLY MORTERBOARD,
FROM A FANCY UNI,
YOU MAKE ME SO MUCH BETTER-
THAN THE UNWASHED PALINITE HICKS...

OH BELOVED TASSLE,
OH PRIVILIGED CASTE,
YOU HELP ME GROW WEALTHY
WHILE SITTING ON MY ASS!

Kludge
07-15-2009, 03:42 AM
Enjoy paying your Masonic Union Dues, sucker.

You seem to be under the impression that I went to college. You're wrong, if you are.

You're making this "duress" nonsense up.

tron paul
07-15-2009, 03:59 AM
You seem to be under the impression that I went to college. You're wrong, if you are.

You're making this "duress" nonsense up.

OK, sorry for giving you the benefit of the doubt and taking seriously your claim that I am somehow, in an unspecified way left to the imagination, "Burdening [you] with [my] failure."

I'm not making this duress nonsense up. When I hesitated to sign the loan forms, being an 18 year old that knew I had no conception of money, they told me I needed the degree regardless of how directly useful my course of study would be for future earnings, because they are like union cards.

It was basically "sign yourself into debt, or you have no future and all your work to this point and future potential will be flushed down the toilet." Where you there too? I was.

IOW, duress.

Kludge
07-15-2009, 04:04 AM
OK, sorry for giving you the benefit of the doubt and taking seriously your claim that I am somehow, in an unspecified way left to the imagination, "Burdening [you] with [my] failure."

I'm not making this duress nonsense up. When I hesitated to sign the loan forms, being an 18 year old that knew I had not conception of money, they told me I needed the degree regardless of how directly useful my course of study would be for future earnings, because they are like union cards.

It was basically "sign yourself into debt, or you have no future and all your work to this point and future potential will be flushed down the toilet." Where you there too? I was.

IOW, duress.

Let me loan you my money or you will live a sad solitary life!

Not my fault you regret a decision because one loan... uh, "they" convinced you it'd be good for your future.

Don't tread on me. I have a well-enough understanding of value ("money") at 18 (IMO, of course).

tron paul
07-15-2009, 04:18 AM
Let me loan you my money or you will live a sad solitary life!

Not my fault you regret a decision because one loan... uh, "they" convinced you it'd be good for your future.

Don't tread on me. I have a well-enough understanding of value ("money") at 18 (IMO, of course).

They don't loan you their money. They loan you your parents' money, at interest, with backing from the Fed gov. At least you got the threat part correct. To an 18yo kid that's been through the college prep circuit and come out on top, such threats are existential.

Did I ever blame you for my decision? No. So why disclaim fault where none was apportioned? Oh, that's right. You claimed I burdened you. Sorry I forgot because you never elaborated on any details of how that might happen, even after I explained that they stole the money in advance from my family.

At 18, I knew I didn't understand money. Instead of a job, I was jumping through the hoops needed to get into the worlds' greatest Universities.

You can't relate, but that's OK. Someone has to pay off my self-forgiven, renounced debt, and a hard working sucker seems like a good fit for that job.

Thanks, Boxer!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxer_(Animal_Farm)

Kludge
07-15-2009, 04:19 AM
Someone has to pay off my self-forgiven, renounced debt, and a hard working sucker seems like a good fit for that job.

I think I might hate you.

tron paul
07-15-2009, 04:31 AM
I think I might hate you.

Now, now Boxer, you're supposed to reply "I will work harder!"

That hate won't lighten your burden. Poor old workhorse.

Your best pal,

Benjamin the Cynical Donkey (aka Jackass) :D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_(Animal_Farm)

"The only outrage that inspires him into action is the pigs' betrayal of Benjamin's best friend, Boxer, after which he becomes more cynical than ever."

tron paul
07-15-2009, 04:47 AM
ew rockwell and a lot of libertarian think tanks just think college
is a waste of time somehow. even though lew rockwell got his degree and thomas woods went to harvard and columbia. -.-


When Lew and Tom went to college the price inflation spiral, propelled by subsidized student loans, industry investment, and athletic shenanigans, had barely begun the the post-GI bill era. Wages were much higher. A blue collar worker could afford a house and family.

The idea that everyone needed college, as remedial high school upper-class breeding pond, had yet to become prevalent.

Lew and Tom both think a degree in a technical field is still worthwhile, AFAIK.

They are generalizing about the 90% of college that is a liberal waste of money.

Lovecraftian4Paul
07-15-2009, 06:02 AM
Just my opinion, but I think the only way this is ever going to start changing is if the loan sharks take the hit along with the students defaulting. They're responsible for the huge increases in tuition and the hellish debt problems by making easy credit available to kids and parents without a good prospect of ever paying it back. And since the job market is nightmarish, they should take the hit along with everyone else, since they took the risk and made these loans knowing (or they should have known) their debtors would never be able to repay.

Oh, they'll come crying for a government bailout, alright. But if we can somehow stop this industry from getting one, the college bubble will start to melt into oblivion once the easy credit disappears. More students will be forced to think about whether college is the right choice or what they really want to get out of it. Tuition prices will drop once the schools have fewer people enrolled.

The individuals who default on their loans will take the hit by having their credit ruined, probably for decades to come. That's capitalism. So is having student loan companies experience failure for making too many loans for ridiculous sums in the middle of a second depression.

NightOwl
07-15-2009, 08:18 AM
why do people love to copy and paste things from websites without even citing source? me don't understand.

and I'm still going to college, yet it seems that Lew rockwell and a lot of libertarian think tanks just think college is a waste of time somehow. even though lew rockwell got his degree and thomas woods went to harvard and columbia. -.-

He's only saying that the idea that college is for everyone, which is the propaganda line we're all fed, is crazy. Obviously he favors college, since one of the Mises Institute's purposes (as with its summer fellow program) is to give assistance to young students as they proceed through economics programs.

RevolutionSD
07-15-2009, 08:58 AM
College is pretty much a waste of time and money, but it sure was fun.
If I could go back and do something that works, I would read the Rich Dad, Poor Dad series, and maybe the Secrets of the Millionaire Mind, attend a few seminars and start my own business long ago. College teaches you to be an employee (or even worse, a grad student).

Anti Federalist
07-15-2009, 09:23 AM
"Every day I wish I had never gone to college,” Castillo said. “It has been the biggest mistake of my life. Sometimes I wish I had gone to prison instead of college. At least I would have learned a trade or two and started being independent once I got out."

The way things are going in Amerika, he'll probably get his wish before too much longer.

ChaosControl
07-15-2009, 09:26 AM
I paid off all my debt within one year. I had no CC debt because I wasn't an idiot. I stayed where living expenses were low to pay off my debt because I wasn't an idiot. Maybe this grad should move to a place with low cost of living. Even on minimum wage you can save up money if you aren't an idiot. And if he has an accounting degree he should at least know something about personal finance, although it is pretty apparent he doesn't.

That all said, I think college is a waste for a lot of people. Unless you're going into law or medicine or something.

acptulsa
07-15-2009, 09:29 AM
And if he has an accounting degree he should at least know something about personal finance...

Nonsense. They're teaching Keynes, not Austria. Get with the program--debt is wealth... :rolleyes:

KenInMontiMN
07-15-2009, 09:37 AM
This poor idiot is under a 350k student loan obligation and has yet to see 50k/year return from his JD:
http://www.startribune.com/local/west/50806777.html?elr=KArksLckD8EQDUoaEyqyP4O:DW3ckUiD 3aPc:_Yyc:aUnciaec8O7EyUsl

ClayTrainor
07-15-2009, 09:55 AM
I went to college for one semester, and it was feeling like a total waste of time for me. I wasn't focusing at all, and just wasn't into it, and it ended up costing me like $7000 for half a year, if you include food, rent and beer. The classes sometimes had up to 50 students in them, and it was impossible to get very much personal assistance from the teachers.

The best education experience i ever had was when i was being trained for Weather Research by a private company called "Air Traffic Services". I got paid to go to school, was trained in a class of 5 students, by professionals. It also came with a guaranteed job once school was finished.

During this employment, i studied business and marketing on the internet, on my own time and eventually started a business and became self-employed.

Unless you want to learn a specific specialty, i can't see how anyone can't learn 90% of the things taught in school on the internet. Paying for school, or going into a huge debt for school seems like such a terrible idea to me, in this day and age, unless you're driven by a specific goal that requires a degree.