Murray N. Rothbard: In Memoriam by Ron Paul

[Conza88]

"America has lost one of her greatest men, and the Freedom Movement one of its greatest heroes: Murray N. Rothbard. In his 25 books and thousands of articles—not to speak of his personal example—Murray was an inspiration. With his death, all who cherish individual rights and oppose the welfare-warfare state, are the poorer.

Murray was a world-class Austrian economist, and he influenced thousands of students. I was one of them, for he taught me about economics and liberty, and encouraged my political work against war, inflation, and big government.

Although I had read Murray for years, I didn't meet him until 1979.1 wrote him, he wrote back, and I invited him to the "belly of the beast/' the U.S. Congress. I knew he had a great mind, but instead of a pompous professor, I discovered a joyous libertarian, and one of the most fascinating human beings I've ever met.

I loved talking to this down-to-earth genius. And he told me he enjoyed meeting a Congressman who had not only read his books, but used them as a guide in his votes and legislation. A close and lasting friendship was the result, which wasn't hard. Murray was the sweetest, funniest, most generous of men.

He was also a great help with the Minority Report of the U.S. Gold Commission, published as The Case for Gold. But who could be surprised? He was our greatest academic expert on the history and economics of the gold standard.

When I last talked to Murray, a few days before his untimely death, he urged me to run for office again. Recent elections or not, he said, our side needs an uncompromising anti-statist voice in Washington, D.C. The founder of modern libertarianism and an economist, historian, and political philosopher of extravagant accomplishments, Murray also loved—and was an expert in—Dixieland jazz, the religious paintings of the Renaissance, basketball, Baroque church architecture, and the nitty-gritty of politics. With tremendous zest for life and for the battle, he defended our freedom and our property, and built the ideas that are their foundation.

Although a Jew and not a man of faith, he loved Christianity— he was also an expert in theology and church history—and saw it as the source of almost everything good in Western civilization. Murray N. Rothbard is now for the ages. My heart goes out to Joey, his wife of 41 years, and to all of us. We have lost a matchless champion of freedom. But I have no concerns for Murray himself. The Lord God knows His own. •"

To read the full text, click here (http://www.mises.org/books/memoriam.pdf).


Murray N. Rothbard
Library and
Resources (http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard-lib.html)

[Kraig]

Now I just wish I got to meet Murray :(, nice olive branch post though.

[fedup100]

So sorry to hear of his passing. We as a country are loosing those who knew freedom and how to keep it. Their works must be preserved. May God bless this man.

[LibertyEagle]

he loved Christianity— he was also an expert in theology and church history—and saw it as the source of almost everything good in Western civilization.

Some might want to note this.

[LibertyEagle]

So sorry to hear of his passing. We as a country are loosing those who knew freedom and how to keep it. Their works must be preserved. May God bless this man.

He died in 1995.

[brandon]

He died 14 years ago.

I don't know why Conza keeps posting this stuff

[Conza88]

Some might want to note this.

Yes. Theocrat and Conservative Christian for starters. :)


He died 14 years ago.

I don't know why Conza keeps posting this stuff

Ron Paul wrote this... this is a Ron Paul forum. Oops, Liberty Forest.. :o And there are some folks that need to pay more attention to the greats of the past, present and future.

[MsDoodahs]

I don't know why Conza keeps posting this stuff

For those of us who enjoy reading these kinds of things.

Like me.

:)

Thanks, Conza!

[LibertyEagle]

Yes. Theocrat and Conservative Christian for starters. :)


I thought as much as you liked Rothbard, you'd value his viewpoint on Christianity too. Guess not.

[MsDoodahs]

Don't take the bait, Conza.

:)

[brandon]

Ron Paul wrote this... this is a Ron Paul forum. Oops, Liberty Forest.. :o And there are some folks that need to pay more attention to the greats of the past, present and future.

I know. I'm a fan of Rothbard and have read this before. I just wasn't sure exactly why you decided to post it today.

[Kraig]

I thought as much as you liked Rothbard, you'd value his viewpoint on Christianity too. Guess not.

Well he's a man not a religious figurehead, sadly my own personal experience with Christianity trumps Rothbard's praise of it.

[Brassmouth]

I thought as much as you liked Rothbard, you'd value his viewpoint on Christianity too. Guess not.

His views are illogical in this respect. Being "a fan" of Christianity (particularly Catholicism, which, surprise, surprise, is Lew Rockwell's religion) while not believing in it is total bullshit.

I'd surmise that his praise of Catholicism had a lot more to do with internal "politicking" within the libertarian movement than an actual philosophy.

Remember, Rothbard essentially had to choose between associating with the atheistic, yet anti-anarchist Randians, or the religious, yet anarchistic Rockwell circles. He chose the latter, thankfully, but an unfortunate side-effect is that this issue is still with us.

[speciallyblend]

Some might want to note this.

i saw that but what stood out to me even larger was the "although a jew" just seemed so out of place, anyway

i have no faith in organized religions(man-made)

God(what man calls him) knows who i am;) i try to keep an openmind, damned if i do!

[Andrew-Austin]

It said he was not a man of faith.

I remember jokingly asking Theocrat in the chat room, if he would pray to God that he let Murray Rothbard out of hell. He just said 'no', undoubtedly believing Murray is in hell right now because he didn't believe in God.


We have lost a matchless champion of freedom. But I have no concerns for Murray himself. The Lord God knows His own. •"

Perhaps you should have been concerned Ron Paul, our resident expert on all things God, Theocrat, thinks Murray is in hell.

After all one can't be a good and moral person without believing in God.

[Brassmouth]

It said he was not a man of faith.

I remember jokingly asking Theocrat in the chat room, if he would pray to God that he let Murray Rothbard out of hell. He just said 'no', undoubtedly believing Murray is in hell right now because he didn't believe in God.



Perhaps you should have been concerned Ron Paul, our resident expert on all things God, Theocrat, thinks Murray is in hell.

After all one can't be a good and moral person without believing in God.

If people like Murray Rothbard are in hell, and people like Theocrat are in heaven, send me to hell and throw away the key! :p

[LittleLightShining]

Stop beating up on Theo. He's every bit as entitled to his beliefs as you are to yours.

[heavenlyboy34]

Thanx for the ode to Maestro Rothbard, Conza. :)

[Brassmouth]

Stop beating up on Theo. He's every bit as entitled to his beliefs as you are to yours.

Please provide evidence showing that I stated that Theocrat was not entitled to his beliefs.

If you can't, shut up.

[LittleLightShining]

Please provide evidence showing that I stated that Theocrat was not entitled to his beliefs.

If you can't, shut up.

Touchy, touchy. Who said I was talking to you? :rolleyes:

[Brassmouth]

Touchy, touchy. Who said I was talking to you? :rolleyes:

Uh, considering your post was right under mine and I mentioned Theocrat, it was pretty clear you were referring to me. If not, then you should have specified.

Or perhaps you left it purposely ambiguous to protect yourself?

Either way, you have supplied no evidence.

[LibertyEagle]

Well, you went out of your way to insult a forum member. C'mon, Brass, you know that. Theo's not even a part of this thread.

:)

[LittleLightShining]

Uh, considering your post was right under mine and I mentioned Theocrat, it was pretty clear you were referring to me. If not, then you should have specified.

Or perhaps you left it purposely ambiguous to protect yourself?

Either way, you have supplied no evidence.No evidence of what? Read the thread. More than one poster in this thread specifically mentioned Theo in a derogatory way. Why? Does it improve your (plural, because apparently I have to put disclaimers in my posts for you) arguments? What point was there to mention him at all?

Protect myself from what and provide evidence of what? Read the thread.

[Brassmouth]

Well, you went out of your way to insult a forum member. C'mon, Brass, you know that. Theo's not even a part of this thread.

:)

Since when does stating that I'd prefer not to spend an eternity with another forum member constitute an insult? :confused:

Seriously, there's no insult there. I didn't even bring up Theocrat, someone else did.


No evidence of what? Read the thread. Two posters in this thread specifically mentioned Theo in a derogatory way. Why? Does it improve your (plural, because apparently I have to put disclaimers in my posts for you) arguments? What point was there to mention him at all?

I can't speak for anyone else, but Theocrat has made himself infamous around here for his...well, let's say "debating style." Almost any thread mentioning religion mentions him as well. I have no control over what others post, or over the formation of running jokes among forum members.


Protect myself from what and provide evidence of what? Read the thread.

You implied that I deny Theocrat's right to his beliefs, which is totally false. I do not take accusations lightly. I then asked you to supply evidence of my denial of Theocrat's rights, which you obviously could not.

[LittleLightShining]

You implied that I deny Theocrat's right to his beliefs, which is totally false. I do not take accusations lightly. I then asked you to supply evidence of my denial of Theocrat's rights, which you obviously could not.Because I never said I was talking to YOU. :rolleyes:

[Brassmouth]

Because I never said I was talking to YOU. :rolleyes:

I've already addressed this. I'm not interested in a circular debate.


Uh, considering your post was right under mine and I mentioned Theocrat, it was pretty clear you were referring to me. If not, then you should have specified.

Also noted that have yet to supply evidence for your accusation.

[Kraig]

Well Brassmouth, it gave me a good laugh at least. :)

[LittleLightShining]

I've already addressed this. I'm not interested in a circular debate.



Also noted that have yet to supply evidence for your accusation.So now who's saying the "debate" is over? If you weren't so defensive you might be able to look at this clearly.

[Andrew-Austin]

Perhaps you should have been concerned Ron Paul, our resident expert on all things God, Theocrat, thinks Murray is in hell.

After all one can't be a good and moral person without believing in God.

All I was doing was agreeing with Theo, if this is in fact his view. (all apologies to him if it is not)

-There is a realm in the afterlife that exists for the purpose of God's punishment of immoral souls.
-Not believing in God is an immoral sin.
-If one is moral and virtuous in every other regard, but does not believe in God, he will go to hell.
-Murray Rothbard did not believe in God, therefor he is in hell.

I never actually disagreed with this position. If you can find something blatantly wrong with this view and disagree with it, it does not necessarily mean I disagree with it.

[Brassmouth]

Well Brassmouth, it gave me a good laugh at least. :)

Well at least some good came out of this headache, then. ;)

[free.alive]

Thanks Conza!

Liberty Eagle, thanks for drawing attention to an important point.

Brassmouth: "Since when does stating that I'd prefer not to spend an eternity with another forum member..." Bait or not, funny comment! Which side of the Delaware are you from?


Speciallyblend: "what stood out to me even larger was the "although a Jew" just seemed so out of place..." Come on! How was it out of place. Read: "Though Rothbard was an atheist and raised in another religion..." Also, one peculiarity of Judaism is that it seems to be more than just a religion. It is passed matrilineally, so (I believe) if your Dad is Jewish, and your mom isn't, you have to convert. Also, if you no longer believe, you're still a Jew, just "non-practicing."

I could be wrong. Either way, I think you're deriving unnecessary and unfounded conclusions/associations from an accurate and plainly well-phrased statement. Why bother with this? Or, if you're sincere that it just sounded weird/uncomfortable to you, I hope I assuaged your concerns.

[speciallyblend]

Thanks Conza!

Liberty Eagle, thanks for drawing attention to an important point.

Brassmouth: "Since when does stating that I'd prefer not to spend an eternity with another forum member..." Bait or not, funny comment! Which side of the Delaware are you from?


Speciallyblend: "what stood out to me even larger was the "although a Jew" just seemed so out of place..." Come on! How was it out of place. Read: "Though Rothbard was an atheist and raised in another religion..." Also, one peculiarity of Judaism is that it seems to be more than just a religion. It is passed matrilineally, so (I believe) if your Dad is Jewish, and your mom isn't, you have to convert. Also, if you no longer believe, you're still a Jew, just "non-practicing."

I could be wrong. Either way, I think you're deriving unnecessary and unfounded conclusions/associations from an accurate and plainly well-phrased statement. Why bother with this? Or, if you're sincere that it just sounded weird/uncomfortable to you, I hope I assuaged your concerns.

not making any judgements. i was just saying it seemed out of place to me.wasn't making judgements on it;)

[Conza88]

;)

[Conza88]

:D

[Conza88]

:)

[Conza88]

Trolls trying to purge Rothbardians are actively working against the Liberty movement and everything Ron Paul stands for.

[Conza88]

Trolls trying to purge Rothbardians are actively working against the Liberty movement and everything Ron Paul stands for.

Tsk tsk.

[heavenlyboy34]

Trolls trying to purge Rothbardians are actively working against the Liberty movement and everything Ron Paul stands for.

I agree! :cool:

[Conza88]

:D

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

Someone around here once had a great analogy in areas of religion and politics...



They are TOTALLY irrelevant to the question at hand. We're talking BIBLE here, or at least I am. What makes you think that the religion / "Church" AND BIBLE that EMPEROR Constantine established, purportedly ABOUT Jesus, was in FACT what Jesus had in mind ~300 years earlier, before THAT very same EMPIRE executed him?

It's the exact same type of issue TODAY. D.C. today is NOT what the "FederalistFounders" had in mind, only 220 years ago.

Would the STATIST created religion of the STATIST Roman Empire, as just another STATIST extension of it's power and control, at just another level, admit it? NO! It's hardly any wonder that actually READING the Bible became a sometimes capital punishment offense ........... for the Latin ignorant peasants, without their "go between" clergy INTERPRETING and "EXPLAINING" what it "REALLY" means to them.

You've been hoodwinked by a PRO, Satan, according to YOUR VERY OWN BIBLE ( HOLY SCRIPTURES, as you say ), my friend. I'd hafta say that the subsequent bloody HISTORY of the "Christian" church ( human institution ) merely confirms that tragic and sad FACT.<IMHO> "By their fruits, ye shall know them."

BTW, simple denial does NOT constitute a rebuttal nor a refutation. That particular Bible "lesson" already has an existing LF/RPF thread. Your absence was noted. Shall we continue this conversation there? Here's a link to the thread OP to get you up to speed.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=1931549&postcount=1

Thanks!

P.S.
re: "pacifist leanings of Matthew J. Truitt": A CHRISTIAN PACIFIST!!! Who is the Prince of Peace? ( trick question )

[mport1]

Rothbard and Ron Paul are both heroes in my book.

[ClayTrainor]

I need to read more Rothbard, for sure. I honestly haven't read very much by him, yet.

[Conza88]

:)

[Wolfgang Bohringer]

Thanks for posting, Conza.

I moved to Las Vegas about 2 years before Rothbard's death. Rothbard welcomed anybody who wanted to to sit in on the two classes that he was teaching at the time: American Economic History and History of Economic Thought. Usually over 20 people would attend the classes--only a few were actual UNLV students and the rest were local libertarians like me.

I still have my notes from the History of Thought classes. I loved his theory that there's been some sort of wacky Christian impulse to kill everybody else and establish the Kingdom of God on Earth (KGE) that keeps "popping up" in history. I think he hated the Calvinists and Fundies more than he loved the Catholics.

When Ron Paul writes that he's not worried about Murray and "the Lord God knows his own", I am once again pleasantly surprised at how Ron Paul thinks seriously about important things such as this rather than being driven by fear and emotion like the most conservatives and "Christians".

[Travlyr]

:)

Interesting... for sure.

[Conza88]

It's absolute bs that this thread belongs in religion, what an absolute stretch. Talk about reaching.. :rolleyes:

Ron Paul giving props and respect to Rothbard, can't have that! :eek:

[Conza88]

Happy birthday Murray! :D

[Conza88]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_Cdu0D9h0g

[jmdrake]

The zombie Rothbard thread lives! Anyhow, he seems like an interesting person. Anyone who can be as hardcore free market as Rothbard but sing praise Che Gueverra for at least being "revolutionary" is interesting to say the least. I don't believe anyone is in hell at the moment (the dead don't know anything according to Solomon), and I think Jesus reserved the right to let anyone He pleased into heaven ("Other sheep have I that are not of this fold").

[Christian Liberty]

Bumping this because I had never read it before. I was seriously disappointed in Ron Paul's last line that he quoted. I hope he was just saying that anyone can repent rather than saying Rothbard could actually have died an atheist and still gone to heaven. Ron, understandably, did not discuss religion much because of the way politicians manipulate it. At any rate, it would have been pointless for Theo to pray for Rothbard, since he's dead. I did, however, pray for Ron Paul as I was reading.

[Christian Liberty]

Was anyone else disappointed by the fact that Ron seems to think that atheists who die as atheists are among "God's Own?"

Or am I the only one who cared?

[Sola_Fide]

Was anyone else disappointed by the fact that Ron seems to think that atheists who die as atheists are among "God's Own?"

Or am I the only one who cared?

I'm not disappointed....but then again my expectations for everyone (especially politicians) is very low.

[Christian Liberty]

I'm not disappointed....but then again my expectations for everyone (especially politicians) is very low.

I don't care when people like George W. Bush and Barack Obama say those things. In fact, I absolutely love it because it exposes the "But... he's a Christian!" nonsense, especially from conservatives. I'd love to hear Mike Huckabee, Ted Cruz, or Chris Christie say something like this. I already know these people are unrepentant sociopaths. I'd like to see them expose themselves for what they really are.

But Ron Paul? That just made me sad. Because, despite the fact that he rarely talks about it (Because he knows people like the above use it as a manipulation tactic to further their sociopathic ends, and Ron doesn't want to look like them) I knew Ron professed to be a Christian, and generally acted like one. He doesn't really count as a "politician." I really hope Ron didn't actually mean what he said there, I hope he was just expressing admiration for Rothbard's work (Which, to his credit, he did say a lot of good things, as does any anti-statist) rather than tryiing to make a theological statement. Unfortunately, I kind of doubt it.

Yeah, I'm disappointed.

[Christian Liberty]

I had a brief discussion with Dr. Farris about Ron Paul and unfortunately, the quote from that last line came up. Unfortunately, I had to concede that Farris was correct. Its really a blight on an otherwise almost perfect record. Why did Ron have to basically throw the Bible out the window to praise Rothbard? Rothbard was a brilliant writer, but unfortunately an atheist. Unless he had a death bed conversion, he IS in Hell per John 14:6. Why does Ron Paul not understand this?

I know its irrelevant to politics, but I still think this was unfortunate.

[Conza88]

Was anyone else disappointed by the fact that Ron seems to think that atheists who die as atheists are among "God's Own?"

Or am I the only one who cared?

Definitely the only one. The fact you objectively think Rothbard is in hell; doesn't saying anything about him... but you and what you consider your religion. That's what's farked up. SMFH.

[Christian Liberty]

This is an old thread LOL!

[erowe1]

Was anyone else disappointed by the fact that Ron seems to think that atheists who die as atheists are among "God's Own?"

Or am I the only one who cared?

Nowhere in the OP did Ron Paul say anything like that. What he said was that God knows his own, which is a true statement and totally unobjectionable.