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FrankRep
07-07-2009, 11:42 AM
Obama's Third Term? (http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/usnews/election/1370)


Jack Kenny | The New American (http://www.thenewamerican.com/)
07 July 2009


It may sound strange, but in the sixth month of a new presidency there is a controversy brewing over Barack Obama’s third term. That’s right, third term.

Rush Limbaugh sounded the alarm on his radio program on June 30, warning that Obama and some of his most ardent supporters are already trying to “lay a foundation” for his staying on as president beyond the constitutional limit of two terms, should he be elected to a second term in 2012.

“I wouldn't be at all surprised if in the next number of years there is a move on the 22nd Amendment,” Limbaugh said.

In January of this year, Rep. Jose Serrano (D-N.Y.) introduced a proposed constitutional amendment to repeal the 22nd Amendment, which limits presidents to two terms. A grass-roots movement, End22.com (http://www.end22.com/) is rallying support for the measure and soliciting contributions for the campaign. "We are wise enough to choose our own leader and to decide how long that leader will serve," the website states, arguing that nothing in the original Constitution barred any president from seeking a third or fourth term.

The 22nd Amendment, passed by Congress in 1947 and ratified by the states in 1951, stipulates that no one may be elected president more than twice. A president who takes office on the death, incapacity, or resignation of the previous president may seek two terms of his own only if he served for two years or less of the previous president’s term. The amendment was passed by a Republican Congress after Democrat Franklin Roosevelt had won four terms before dying in office early in his last term in 1945. Harry Truman, who succeeded Roosevelt, was exempted from the limitation and, following his election in 1948, could have run again in 1952, but chose not to. The restriction has applied to every president since and remains in effect.

Pictures of FDR and Obama appear side by side on the End22.com website, where the text poses a comparison of the two presidents and their respective challenges. “During the last Great Crisis, Franklin Delano Roosevelt led Americans out of the Great Depression and through World War II,” it says. “Today Barack Obama leads us through the worst Economic Crisis since the Great Depression and leads the War on Terror.... With our current crises, the American People need to take back their right to elect the leader of their choice. The task is too large and the risk is too great — we must act now!"

When the 22nd Amendment was debated in Congress, Republicans cited the tradition established by George Washington, who retired after two terms, despite widespread public support for his reelection. Thomas Jefferson, the next president to win a second term, followed that example.

“If some termination to the services of the chief magistrate be not fixed by the Constitution or supplied in practice," Jefferson wrote to the Legislature of Vermont, "his office, nominally for years, will in fact become for life; and history shows how easily that degenerates into an inheritance." The tradition lasted until Roosevelt became, in fact, president “for life” holding the presidency for 12 years before death interrupted his fourth term. During that time, including four years of war, he wielded more power over the political and economic life of the nation than any previous president. Republicans, appearing wary of executive power in the post-war years, claimed a president too long in office acquires powers and influence that undermine constitutional restraints. Then-Representative Everett Dirksen of Illinois said supporters of the amendment were “trying to repair an American tradition.”

But Democrats argued the amendment itself would undermine the right of self-rule. “For the people to have the privilege of choosing whom they please as their leader is real democracy in action,” argued Speaker of the House Sam Rayburn.

Scholars and pundits as well as politicians have often weighed in on the issue. Historians James MacGregor Burns and Susan Dunn raised the lame-duck argument in January, 2006, in the middle of George W. Bush’s second term. “A second-term president will, in effect, automatically be fired within four years,” they wrote in an op ed piece for the New York Times. “Inevitably his influence over Congress, and even his authority over the sprawling executive branch, weaken. His party leadership frays as presidential hopefuls carve out their own constituencies for the next election. Whether the president is trying to tamp down scandal or push legislation, he loses his ability to set the agenda.”

The power of the president to “set the agenda” has been widely taken for granted since the heady days of the New Deal , when the role of the Congress in writing and debating legislation was fairly well taken over by the White House. (Congress, comedian Will Rogers said at the time, was no longer writing the laws, “it just waves at them as they go by.”) But the Constitution, which vests “All legislative Powers” in the Congress of the United States, gives no indication that the chief executive should “set the agenda” for the nation.

Concerns about declining presidential power in a second term seem strangely at odds with a greater and more valid concern about an “imperial presidency.” President George W. Bush’s “lame duck” status in his second term did not prevent him from issuing “signing statements” that effectively amended or deleted provisions of laws passed by Congress. Nor did it deter him from asserting his claimed authority to imprison suspected terrorists, including American citizens apprehended in the United States indefinitely, without formal charges or trial — a policy apparently being continued under the Obama regime. Congress has repeatedly, under presidents of both parties, abdicated to the executive the power to decide whether and when the United States shall go to war. Rather than bemoan the president’s waning “influence over Congress” in a lame-duck term, we might better demand a restoration of Congress’ lost grip on its own constitutional powers.

As Thomas Jefferson observed in his “Notes on the State of Virginia”: “An elective despotism was not the government we fought for; but one which should be not only founded on free principles, but in which the powers of government should be so divided and balanced among several bodies of magistracy that no one could transcend their legal limits without being checked and restrained by the others.”

As for Speaker Rayburn’s claim that “real democracy” requires “the privilege of the people to choose whom they please as their leader,” that “privilege” has always been subject to constitutional limits. The people may not choose someone under 35 years of age, for example, no matter how brilliant or accomplished someone of a lesser age might be. Nor may we elect someone born outside the United States, no matter how long that person may have lived among us or how faithfully he or she has served our nation. A “real democracy,” presumably one in which there is no limit on the right of the people to choose whom or what they please, is clearly not what the Founders had in mind when they established a constitutional republic.

“Democracy is the most vile form of government,” wrote James Madison, contending that democracies “have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention: have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property: and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths.”

Given the corrupting influence of power, the 22nd Amendment prevents the occupant of the most powerful office in the land from perpetuating himself or herself in office indefinitely by means of favors bestowed on or demagogic appeals to various blocs of voters. Efforts to repeal it have been introduced by members of both parties numerous times over the years, but so far no such proposal has come to a vote before either house of Congress.

But Limbaugh, who was noticeably silent about abuse of presidential power during the eight years George W. Bush was in the White House, has warned his listeners that Obama may seek and find unconstitutional means of bypassing the term-limits amendment. “There's a lot of stuff that you didn't think could happen here that's happening right before your very eyes and it's not happening according to the Constitution,” he said, noting that the current president has appointed new “czars,” taken over banks, and demanded the firing of executives in the auto industry, all without constitutional authority. Said Limbaugh: “Folks, getting rid of the 22nd Amendment is chump change compared to what this man's already achieved that nobody thought could happen.”


SOURCE:
http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/usnews/election/1370

Scofield
07-07-2009, 12:08 PM
Abolish the 22nd Amendment.

Allow the people to vote for the President for a third term, or more. If Ron Paul became President, would you want him ousted after two terms? I'd prefer he stay in office until he dies, retires, or until he becomes despotic.

If Obama tries to become a dictator, don't vote for him. Just because he is allowed additional terms doesn't mean he will get them. The people have to vote for him first, and if they vote for a tyrant, they deserve what they get.

Romulus
07-07-2009, 12:12 PM
Abolish the 22nd Amendment.

Allow the people to vote for the President for a third term, or more. If Ron Paul became President, would you want him ousted after two terms? I'd prefer he stay in office until he dies, retires, or until he becomes despotic.

If Obama tries to become a dictator, don't vote for him. Just because he is allowed additional terms doesn't mean he will get them. The people have to vote for him first, and if they vote for a tyrant, they deserve what they get.

That's just ignorant. It's not the votes that matter.. its who counts them.

gls
07-07-2009, 12:13 PM
If Obama tries to become a dictator, don't vote for him. Just because he is allowed additional terms doesn't mean he will get them. The people have to vote for him first, and if they vote for a tyrant, they deserve what they get.

Um you act like you're somehow detached from this. Sure "they deserve what they get" but the rest of us don't.

James Madison
07-07-2009, 12:19 PM
I agree. The 22nd Amendment should be abolished.

ramallamamama
07-07-2009, 12:23 PM
Not gunna happen. Ahnald's a shoe-in for '12.

James Madison
07-07-2009, 12:25 PM
Not gunna happen. Ahnald's a shoe-in for '12.

Uh, wouldn't they have to amend the Constitution for that, too? Besides, Ahnald has way too much baggage.

Agent CSL
07-07-2009, 12:25 PM
I don't mind if the 22nd amendment is repealed. In the course of events ALL laws, and ALL loopholes are abused. We have a 2-party dictatorship. Nothing has changed for nigh 100 years. The repeal of the 22nd amendment, if abused into a one-person dictatorship, would only spark a quicker revolution. Perhaps that's what TPTB want.

Unfortunately, the same statements that allows us to choose "better" presidents forces us to remove the only good ones we may ever get. If ever.

Elwar
07-07-2009, 12:26 PM
I think I saw this thread on The Obama Forum (http://www.theobamaforum.com)...

Yep...here

http://www.theobamaforum.com/showthread.php?t=2064&highlight=22nd+amendment

here
http://www.theobamaforum.com/showthread.php?t=5608&highlight=22nd+amendment

here
http://www.theobamaforum.com/showthread.php?t=5806&highlight=22nd+amendment

and a poll here
http://www.theobamaforum.com/showthread.php?t=11420&highlight=22nd+amendment

Consensus tends to be..."F&%* the Constitution..."

muh_roads
07-07-2009, 12:51 PM
I wish the two term limit could be extended to house & senate

qh4dotcom
07-07-2009, 12:56 PM
From the end22.com website



Franklin Delano Roosevelt was elected President of the United States four times. FDR died early in his fourth term after serving three full, successful terms. It was his leadership that brought our great country out of Economic Crisis and War.

History has no way of determining what would have happened to the United States if Roosevelt had been limited to two terms and had been unable to lead us out of the Great Depression and through World War II. With our current crisis, the American People need to take back their right to elect the leader of their choice. The task is too large and the risk is too great - we must act now!

Ha Ha Ha...Roosevelt led us out of the Great Depression?

Reason
07-07-2009, 12:58 PM
http://www.infowars.com/images2/media/050705limbaugh.jpg

The day I give a flying fuck what Limbaugh says is the day I jump off a very tall building.

ItsTime
07-07-2009, 12:59 PM
From the end22.com website



Ha Ha Ha...Roosevelt led us out of the Great Depression?

And it only took him four short terms to do it! :eek:

Dr.3D
07-07-2009, 01:03 PM
I wish the length of each term was only 3 years rather than 4. A heck of a lot of damage has already been done in just the past 6 months.

Krugerrand
07-07-2009, 01:04 PM
I can't believe you guys actually think it necessary to amend the constitution for Lord Barry to serve a third term. Since when did we follow that? That's so 19th century.

Anyway, perhaps he won't run and Barry Soetoro will in his place.

ItsTime
07-07-2009, 01:04 PM
I wish the length of each term was only 3 years rather than 4. A heck of a lot of damage has already been done in just the past 6 months.

I dont care if they ruled for 10000 years if they have no power over anything the people have nothing to worry about. I do believe THAT was the intent of our founding fathers. Return ALL power not designated by the constitution to the state level NOW!

andrewh817
07-07-2009, 01:13 PM
I wish the length of each term was only 3 years rather than 4. A heck of a lot of damage has already been done in just the past 6 months.

But if the mainstream politicians don't work for the common people anymore, what does it matter if there are more elections? The same corrupt people will be in.

Kraig
07-07-2009, 01:48 PM
I wish the length of each term was only 3 years rather than 4. A heck of a lot of damage has already been done in just the past 6 months.

I wish it was 0 rather than 4. How is cutting 1 year off going to help anything?

ProBlue33
07-07-2009, 02:47 PM
This is an interesting topic. Because if Ron Paul was elected as President let's say back in 1988 when he first ran, and made good progress in changing things for the better in America, but he wasn't finished after 2 terms, and said he needed a third term to complete the changes that he started, I wonder how many of us would be opposed to that?

Move up the limit to 3 - three year terms for a total of nine. That way if you get another Bush you can get rid of him quicker. And 9 years is a good amount of time to accomplish anything. And the same rule could apply to both congress and the senate, that way you always have fresh idea's.

Scofield
07-07-2009, 02:54 PM
Why should there be a term limit?

How is it beneficial?

Sandman33
07-07-2009, 02:59 PM
Abolish the 22nd Amendment.

Allow the people to vote for the President for a third term, or more. If Ron Paul became President, would you want him ousted after two terms? I'd prefer he stay in office until he dies, retires, or until he becomes despotic.

If Obama tries to become a dictator, don't vote for him. Just because he is allowed additional terms doesn't mean he will get them. The people have to vote for him first, and if they vote for a tyrant, they deserve what they get.

What if the election is rigged?

moostraks
07-07-2009, 03:09 PM
Why should there be a term limit?

How is it beneficial?

"'We're democrats. We accept the results,' said opposition leader Omar Barboza.

But they said the results were skewed by Chavez's broad use of state resources to get out the vote, through a battery of state-run news media, pressure on 2 million public employees and frequent presidential speeches which all television stations are required to air."

from:Venezuela Referendum: Chavez Wins Vote To End Term Limits

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/15/venezuela-referendum-vote_n_167053.html

The incumbent has a distinct advantage and this is how dictatorships are made...

Tried to google this article from any source other then HuffPost and they all dropped this critical last paragraph. If anyone else finds it from a less touchy source please add the link!

Scofield
07-07-2009, 03:14 PM
What if the election is rigged?

If an election is rigged, it means the system is corrupt. If the system is corrupt, terms are irrelevant.

Warrior_of_Freedom
07-07-2009, 03:16 PM
YucK! We should propose a 1 term limit if your name is Barack Obama.

Fozz
07-07-2009, 03:24 PM
Those who want to repeal the 22th amendment are an insult to the legacy and humility of George Washington, and from what I see at end22.com, they seem to be FDR a** kissers.

RM918
07-08-2009, 05:02 AM
Those who want to repeal the 22th amendment are an insult to the legacy and humility of George Washington, and from what I see at end22.com, they seem to be FDR a** kissers.

Eh, I haven't studied it or anything but I thought Washington quit after two because he didn't like it in the first place.

Elwar
07-08-2009, 07:38 AM
I'm against term limits on an ideological basis, but for them on a personal/practical basis.

Remember...Ron Paul has served since the 70s.

Indy4Chng
07-08-2009, 10:15 AM
Why should there be a term limit?

How is it beneficial?

Because we were setup to have a temporary voluntary government. It ensure that happens. I would be in favor of one term limits for presidents (it is the most powerful position in the country one is plenty), 2 for senators and 4 for congressman. Yes I would prefer all congressman be limited to 4 including Ron Paul rather than have the system we have now and Ron Paul serving for life.

Minlawc
07-08-2009, 01:13 PM
2 for senators
Term limits for senators would be useless if they were appointed be the state legislator.