Please provide an operational defintion for "Neocon"

[federalistnp]

At one time I thought I knew the definition but it is about as slippery as the left's definition of liberty and constitutional rights.

Was it really short for neoconservative and what qualifies someone as being a new incarnation of conservative?

What tenets do RP supporters hold to be true?

I am very much a supporter of individualism and the free market, but believe in marching divided (state sovereignty) and fighting concentrated (Federalism).

My take on Neocons:
Ayn Rand takes both collectivism and engendered corporatism entitlement to task yet the common false assumption of the corporate right is that capitalism entitles big business to use lobbyists and politics to their economic benefit, which leads to the false argument of the more socialist friendly left that Atlas Shrugged was evil and that capitalism equals using political favors as any means necessary to become richer.



How about Clint Eastwood as Nat Taggart!

[erowe1]

The defining feature of neoconservatism is 100% its foreign policy. It has nothing to do with ideas often considered conservative, such as social conservatism or fiscal conservatism. In fact, neoconservatives are generally social and fiscal liberals.

[federalistnp]

The defining feature of neoconservatism is 100% its foreign policy. It has nothing to do with ideas often considered conservative, such as social conservatism or fiscal conservatism. In fact, neoconservatives are generally social and fiscal liberals.


Personally, I am a Christian though I don't often come across as the total pacifist that everyone on the left expects Christians to be. I also do not believe in totally legislating behavioral morality. I believe in tact but tire from political correctness. I also don't want a theocracy which is what the Constitution Party seems to want.

I am against abortion but realize that we may have to fight for that one battle at a time; first by limiting the terms, and asking for parental or adult supervision before signing off. I am careful with how I speak about it because the issue is incendiary to some women close to me.

How do we define social conservatism?

Gay Marriage? I accept civil unions as granting equal rights under law without distorting marriage. Churches should have the right to refuse service, membership or rituals where a contradiction with doctrine will occur.

[reagle]

Ron Paul has a summary in his statement Neo – CONNED !


HON. RON PAUL OF TEXAS
IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
July 10, 2003

Neo – CONNED !

Here is a brief summary of the general understanding of what neocons believe:



They agree with Trotsky on permanent revolution, violent as well as intellectual.

They are for redrawing the map of the Middle East and are willing to use force to do so.

They believe in preemptive war to achieve desired ends.

They accept the notion that the ends justify the means—that hardball politics is a moral necessity.

They express no opposition to the welfare state.

They are not bashful about an American empire; instead they strongly endorse it.

They believe lying is necessary for the state to survive.

They believe a powerful federal government is a benefit.

They believe pertinent facts about how a society should be run should be held by the elite and withheld from those who do not have the courage to deal with it.

They believe neutrality in foreign affairs is ill advised.

They hold Leo Strauss in high esteem.

They believe imperialism, if progressive in nature, is appropriate.

Using American might to force American ideals on others is acceptable Force should not be limited to the defense of our country.

9-11 resulted from the lack of foreign entanglements, not from too many.

They dislike and despise libertarians (therefore, the same applies to all strict constitutionalists.)

They endorse attacks on civil liberties, such as those found in the Patriot Act, as being necessary.

They unconditionally support Israel and have a close alliance with the Likud Party.



http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2003/cr071003.htm

[erowe1]

How do we define social conservatism?


That's a really good question. I think the way it's usually defined is based on pure caricatures. You hear things about people trying to force their religions on others. And I just don't see the people who are supposedly doing that actually doing it. Even being completely against all state licensure of gay marriage as well as civil unions doesn't mean you're forcing anything on anyone or in any way preventing anyone from living their lives exactly how they want and doing what they want in their bedrooms with whomever they want. I suppose banning or regulating abortion so as to authorize the state to use force to protect unborn babies is a case of forcing something on someone, but no more so than any other law against murdering people. And as I see it, those two issues (gay marriage and abortion) are really the core of what so-called social conservatism supposedly entails in today's political environment.

Sometimes the drug war gets thrown in. But I see that as a diversion, since some very staunch social conservatives (Pat Buchanan, Jeff Flake, Tom Tancredo, Mark Sanford, and I would include Ron Paul) have come out strongly against the drug war. And I don't really see any of the people and groups most closely associated with the religious right (James Dobson, the Family Research Council, the Christian Coalition, etc.) making a big deal about the drug war. I really don't think it's on their radar. Granted, I think if you ask them, most so-called social conservatives are probably against legalizing drugs. But so are most people outside that group, including liberals.

In the end, I'm pretty sure that whatever definition we use for "social conservative" I probably have to plead guilty of being one. But I don't really know what a good definition would be.

[max]

Zionist warmongers and their non jewish lackeys who place Israel's interests ahead of America's...

Founders of the movement were Norman Podhoretz and Irving Kristol (Bill's dad)...

they were "ex-liberals" who "converted to "conservatism" and then hijacked traditional conservatism from the Goldwater-Paul wing...

[Romulus]

YouTube - Ron Paul Exposes Neo Conservatives A.K.A. NEOCONS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0N0iqUiaTs)

[slacker921]

The Power of Nightmares (http://www.rewtube.com/) has some good video bits that should be watched if you want to understand the neoconservatives and how they operate.

[klamath]

Neo conservative generally discribes someone who holds foreign policy as their main interest. They may give lip service to domestic issues but when push comes to shove they will toss every domestic conservative issue if it means holding on to an aggressive foreign policy.
Their roots are in the trotsky left but sometime in the 60's and 70's they came to the realization the Soviet system would not be able to push a world wide agenda like America could.
Main thing that identifies them is they will state America is always right and it is necessary for us to manipulate and interfere in all countries in the world to bring democracy to them whether the people of other countries want it or not. They believe it is necessary to use force to achieve this. They will talk against big government in America but will happily use and adminster big government in other countries.
They are very elite in their own minds.
Other conservatives a lot of times get tarred because they buy into the sales pitch the neocons have given, that all these wars are absolutely necessary to preserve American
freedom.
Libertarians tend to list all Conservatives as neocons when they have no clue what a neocon is really.

[Liberty Star]

Those who oppose freedom and human morality and are often seen cheerleading elective wars against people of other races for interests of foreign countries. Often have radical marxist/radical left backgrounds and don't respect teachings of Jesus against elective violence.

That was long answer, short answer will be that human disgrace and human immorality defines these societal parasites.

[Number19]

My short answer is that neo-cons are:

Big government Republicans who believe in an aggressive foreign policy and support a New World Order with a dominant America.

[erowe1]

My short answer is that neo-cons are:

Big government Republicans who believe in an aggressive foreign policy and support a New World Order with a dominant America.

Except I'm not sure if they are Republicans by definition. That's usually the stereotype. But I don't see how Lieberman, or for that matter, a lot of Democrats in good standing, could plead innocent of being neoconservatives.

[Number19]

It's just perception. Neo-Con is usually associated with Republicans, but in fact were originally "conservative" Democrats who switched parties. Politically, I don't have to contend with this kind of Democrat. I am working to oust Neo-Con Republicans.

[Sandra]

Perhaps we should change the framework by calling them "neo liberals". That is the proper term.

[federalistnp]

Perhaps we should change the framework by calling them "neo liberals". That is the proper term.

Economically, I would consider myself and libertarians a neoliberal.

[Sandra]

Economically, I would consider myself and libertarians a neoliberal.



Libertarians? Explain.

[Brian4Liberty]

At one time I thought I knew the definition but it is about as slippery as the left's definition of liberty and constitutional rights.

Yes, it has been redefined. It was originally the name they labeled themselves (as well as "Vulcans"). The mainstream media has redefined it to be an anti-Semitic term, so anyone that even uses the word is immediately assumed to be a racist. The inside joke is that it is called "the n-word". During the 2008 primaries, the MSM repeated accusations that some Ron Paul people constantly used the "n-word". They never identified which "n-word" was used, and they were very proud of their deceptive smear...

[apropos]

I think an even better question is whether "conservatism" is even possible in America. The nature of this country is progress, not conservation.

Taft, who many paleos look to as a role model, said that he was not a conservative...he was a classic liberal.

Another word for paleo-conservative is classic liberal. Ron Paul is a classic liberal.

Before neoconservative can be defined, conservative and liberal in the American sense must be defined.

For example, are conservatives working to "preserve" the Department of Education, or are they working to progress past it?

[ChickenHawk]

A Neocon was originally a New Deal Democrat that side with, or Became, a Republican because of Cold War foreign policy views. Non-Interventionists label anyone who advocates any type of foreign intervention a Neocon.

Neocons:

Zell Miller

Richard Pearl

Joseph Liberman

Not a Neocon:

Dick Cheney

GWB

Donald Rumsfeld


The fact the someone may share foreign policy views with a Neocon does not make that person a Neocon anymore that the fact that you may like carrots would makes you a vegitarian.

[Number19]

A Neocon was originally a New Deal Democrat that side with, or Became, a Republican because of Cold War foreign policy views. Non-Interventionists label anyone who advocates any type of foreign intervention a Neocon.

Neocons:

Zell Miller

Richard Pearl

Joseph Liberman

Not a Neocon:

Dick Cheney

GWB

Donald Rumsfeld


The fact the someone may share foreign policy views with a Neocon does not make that person a Neocon anymore that the fact that you may like carrots would makes you a vegitarian.OK, if I accept that these three Republicans are "Not a Neocon", then what flavor of Republican are they. Not Conservative in the traditional sense. These three accept the concept of Big Government - smaller, maybe, than Liberals, but still Big Government. It's not New Deal government, but it's a first cousin.

[ChickenHawk]

OK, if I accept that these three Republicans are "Not a Neocon", then what flavor of Republican are they. Not Conservative in the traditional sense. These three accept the concept of Big Government - smaller, maybe, than Liberals, but still Big Government. It's not New Deal government, but it's a first cousin.

I don't really know Rumsfeld's views on domestic policy and GWB is really hard to figure out. I think Cheney is a lot more of a small government conservative than he gets credit for. I think his biggest problem is massive paranoia on the foreign policy front. Time will tell if that paranoia is appropriate or not. I guess you could label Bush with the label he gave himself, "compassionate" conservative:rolleyes:.

[Number19]

The Bush administration sponsored a major increase in the size and power of government - the Dept of Homeland Security. Bush also signed the Campaign Finance Reform. We lost a lot of freedom under Bush.

[speciallyblend]

8 yrs of bush and gop leadership(not to mention the yrs before bush) sums it up nicely!! 8yrs of bush is operational as you can get!!

[shocker315]

Its worth noting that historically the Democratic Party has been the professed party of growth in government, intervention in the economy, and yes.....military intervention abroad.

WW1- Woodrow Wilson (Democrat)
WW2- FDR (Democrat)
Korea- Truman (Democrat)
Vietnam-JFK/LBJ (Democrat)
Bosnia-Clinton (Democrat)

Gulf War 1 and 2- Bush 1 and 2 (Neoconservative)...so called

Neoconservative= "New" Republican who believes in the growth of government, intervention in the economy (expansive monetary stimulus/government deficit spending), and yes.... military intervention abroad. This is despite their campaign rhetoric to be for smaller government, balanced budgets, and against nation building.

Leadership of the Dems and Necons are more similar than different.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_xrDiLQqAbzI/RcL1mRPaDjI/AAAAAAAAADo/em1t4IurzPQ/s400/bush_clinton http://maremare1225.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/opp.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3008/2691785531_50b0d3116c.jpg?v=0