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Objectivist
07-02-2009, 02:27 AM
If this fat ass can afford her daily box of jelly doughnuts and 2 liter sodas then there is NO reason she can't afford healthcare. I'd really like to know where people think they are owed a life if they let themselves fall into the health problem that exists in this video?

If I run 4-5 miles at least 4 times per week and watch what I eat, then I can only blame genetics or environmental exposures for any illness I suffer.... but like my Oma who is about 90 and in failing health, I won't ask anyone for a damn thing.

This woman is a joke....
YouTube - President Obama Hugs Woman with Cancer at Town Hall Meeting on Health Care (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7NwsMPMZSg)


and if anyone is looking, you can find sympathy in the dictionary between shit and syphilis.:rolleyes:

Her name is Debbie and she's ONLY 53! I wonder if she knows "Little Debbie"?

TGGRV
07-02-2009, 07:54 AM
Pay her heart surgery and knee replacement, you fool! :P

Krugerrand
07-02-2009, 08:19 AM
Obviously the problem is that doctors expect to be paid for their services. :rolleyes:

Dr.3D
07-02-2009, 08:23 AM
Let's see you run those 4-5 miles even once a week after you have had heart surgery. I was in a lot better shape than I am now before I had three hernia repair surgeries done. Now my physician says I have a bad valve in my heart. Maybe I should get out and run 4-5 miles a couple of times a week so the valve will heal?

Danke
07-02-2009, 08:24 AM
"I can't work"?

Warrior_of_Freedom
07-02-2009, 08:26 AM
That's kind of harsh. A jelly donut is like a dollar, A visit to the doctor is like 100-200.

coyote_sprit
07-02-2009, 08:29 AM
That's kind of harsh. A jelly donut is like a dollar, A visit to the doctor is like 100-200.

Don't buy the donut and save $1 and much more in the long run.

Krugerrand
07-02-2009, 08:30 AM
That's kind of harsh. A jelly donut is like a dollar, A visit to the doctor is like 100-200.

while we'll have no way to know for sure ... I bet she has cable.

Danke
07-02-2009, 08:39 AM
http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2009/07/debbie-smith.html

ABINGDON, Va. -- Debby Smith spent four years serving in the U.S. Marine Corps (go to the VA then) and 25 years working as an accountant before she found out she had cancer -- and now she can't get health insurance.

"Since ... I can't work, of course, I don't have health insurance, which means I have to pay out of pocket for ... all my prescriptions and all my doctor visits and everything, and if you don't work it's hard to do that," said Smith, 51, of Appalachia, Va.

"A lot of people, they think that people are just sitting around not doing any work just getting government assistance ... and don't try to do anything for themselves and ask the government to pay for everything," she said. "I'm not one of those people. ... I'd rather be working and doing my job and making a decent wage, but I'm not able to do that."

With 12 years to wait for age-related Social Security benefits, she relies on a hospital charity fund for twice-yearly cat scans; a pharmaceutical company's patient assistance program for help with her cancer drugs and her fiance, who pays $515 a month for her remaining medication and regular doctor visits.

She says she's lucky; those like her who have no loved ones to help can't get the care they need -- and, ultimately, they die.

Her horror at what she calls a broken health care system is what drove her to get involved in a growing regional and national effort to mobilize people on the need for comprehensive health care reform.

pcosmar
07-02-2009, 08:42 AM
That's kind of harsh. A jelly donut is like a dollar, A visit to the doctor is like 100-200.

/grin
I'm seeing a LOT of jelly donuts there.

Warrior_of_Freedom
07-02-2009, 08:44 AM
/grin
I'm seeing a LOT of jelly donuts there.
:rolleyes: according to the BMI i'm fat unless i turn into a toothpick, so i'm overweight, stop making fun of the jelly donut eaters!

ClayTrainor
07-02-2009, 09:01 AM
Obama said

"In a country this wealthy, we should be able to provide for her health care problems"

Hasn't any one told him about the $12 trillion national debt yet?

Krugerrand
07-02-2009, 09:01 AM
:rolleyes: according to the BMI i'm fat unless i turn into a toothpick, so i'm overweight, stop making fun of the jelly donut eaters!
Ich bin ein Berliner!

Krugerrand
07-02-2009, 09:02 AM
Obama said

"In a country this wealthy, we should be able to provide for her health care problems"

Hasn't any one told him about the $12 trillion national debt yet?

Oh come on, Clay. That's why we PRINT more!

Dr.3D
07-02-2009, 09:03 AM
Obama said

"In a country this wealthy, we should be able to provide for her health care problems"

Hasn't any one told him about the $12 trillion national debt yet?

Seems he believes printing money makes wealth.

Danke
07-02-2009, 09:08 AM
"Debbie Smith, of Appalachia, Va., is a volunteer for Organizing for America, Obama's political operation within the Democratic National Committee. She obtained her ticket through the White House"


Published: December 23, 2008 In line with President Obama’s health-care campaign and the new administration, he has directed Senator Tom Daschle to form a committee to report on health care issues important to those in Virginia. Debby Smith will be moderating the Southwest Virginia town-hall discussion in Appalachia at Town Hall on Dec. 30 at 7 p.m. According to Smith, the information from the meeting will be reported back to Daschle to be included in his report to the President. Congressman Rich Boucher and Daschle are scheduled to attend the meeting as well, barring schedule changes. News Channel 11 will be on the scene Tuesday night, look to tricities.com for more coverage.

Update2: Can't access the full article: scroll down.

There will be a community discussion on health care issues tonight at Appalachia Town Hall. The open forum begins at 7 p.m. and will be moderated by Debby Smith. According to Smith, information from the meeting will be reported back to Sen. Tom Daschle, who has been directed by President Elect Barack Obama to form a committee to report on health care issues.

roho76
07-02-2009, 09:16 AM
Ohh barf. Someone hand me a trash can.

I don't think the problem is the broken health care system, and it is broken but not in the fact that she can't get any but in the fact that traditional and current health care is junk and only exists to shove toxic poisons into our bodies in trade for massive profits. People need to take care of themselves from the onset of our lives. We need to move away from toxic processed foods and toxic medicines. She has been a victim of fake American prosperity and gluttonous behaviour And false hopes that the medical industry can save her should she fall ill, myself included. My only hope is that future generations figure out the root of the problem and work to kill like an insurgent.

stag15
07-02-2009, 09:34 AM
Seems he believes printing money makes wealth.

This is why one should buy PMs.

Epic
07-02-2009, 09:52 AM
I wouldn't be so harsh to her. People like to envision saviors, and Obama probably seems like a savior to her.

When we talk about healthcare, we need to explain how reducing healthcare costs is best done by removing government regulation, such as allowing people to buy insurance across state lines, remove regulations and mandates on insurance companies, adjust intellectual property regulations, abolish the FDA, etc.

Romulus
07-02-2009, 10:05 AM
Anyone want to bet she was hand picked by Team Obama for her appearance?

Sean
07-02-2009, 10:10 AM
Seems like she is healthy enough to volunteer for Obama. Why would any insurance company offer you insurance when you have cancer? They have to make money. You get insurance before you get sick.

Anyways to lower health care costs you have to increase supply and get the government out of it. First of all get rid of prescriptions. If someone knows what drugs they need they shouldn't have to pay for a doctors visit to buy them. Second allow free trade on drugs. If companies are going to sell their drugs cheaper in another country we should be able to buy them there wholesale and resell them in the USA. Third allow nurses and medical technicians to practice medicine in certain areas. Nurse can do many things cheaper than a doctor can so can medical technicians. Also stop closing medical schools to restrict the amount of doctors created. There was a concerted effort in the recent past to reduce the amount of doctors leading to higher costs. There are so many ways we can lower costs.

Danke
07-02-2009, 10:11 AM
Anyone want to bet she was hand picked by Team Obama for her appearance?

See post #16 above:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=2193118&postcount=16

fisharmor
07-02-2009, 10:19 AM
pays $515 a month for her remaining medication and regular doctor visits.

o noes, her out-of-pocket expenses are $250 less than my monthly PPO premium!

We all know what the problem is (those of us who have had to develop an IT solution for a HCFA1500 print job have an idea, anyway), and unfortunately we all know that this is going to pass, and at least one of us on this forum is going to die as a direct result.

Standing Like A Rock
07-02-2009, 10:56 AM
Did anyone else notice how he kept on saying that they would take care of her individually. He said that they would take her personal information afterward and "find an existing law" to help her out individually. So basically she is getting a special favor out of our pockets for making the president look good (not that he did IMO, of course). I am sure that the government can solve all of our problems with a team of lawyers and shitloads of money /sarcasm.

ladyjade3
07-02-2009, 11:13 AM
Ich bin ein Berliner!


Well-played.

Kraig
07-02-2009, 11:49 AM
those of us who have had to develop an IT solution for a HCFA1500 print job have an idea, anyway

ewwwwwwwwww

So much money thrown down the drain just to comply with government standards.

torchbearer
07-02-2009, 12:00 PM
Ich bin ein Berliner!

YouTube - Kennedy - I am a Berliner - Ich Bin Ein Berliner (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hH6nQhss4Yc)

muh_roads
07-02-2009, 12:33 PM
"Debbie Smith, of Appalachia, Va., is a volunteer for Organizing for America, Obama's political operation within the Democratic National Committee. She obtained her ticket through the White House"


Published: December 23, 2008 In line with President Obama’s health-care campaign and the new administration, he has directed Senator Tom Daschle to form a committee to report on health care issues important to those in Virginia. Debby Smith will be moderating the Southwest Virginia town-hall discussion in Appalachia at Town Hall on Dec. 30 at 7 p.m. According to Smith, the information from the meeting will be reported back to Daschle to be included in his report to the President. Congressman Rich Boucher and Daschle are scheduled to attend the meeting as well, barring schedule changes. News Channel 11 will be on the scene Tuesday night, look to tricities.com for more coverage.

Update2: Can't access the full article: scroll down.

There will be a community discussion on health care issues tonight at Appalachia Town Hall. The open forum begins at 7 p.m. and will be moderated by Debby Smith. According to Smith, information from the meeting will be reported back to Sen. Tom Daschle, who has been directed by President Elect Barack Obama to form a committee to report on health care issues.

Nice detective work.

Natalie
07-02-2009, 12:41 PM
If we start universal healthcare, I'm going to quit eating organic food and quit working out and become a big fat blob. Okay, not really, but why should I have to pay for blood pressure medicine for obese people who don't take care of themselves? I know lots of people are born sick or its not their fault but still...

MelissaWV
07-02-2009, 12:55 PM
This may well be the only nation in the world where someone pays $515 a month, gets such incredible care (this country's hospitals are pretty damned good, once you figure out how to pay)... and complains. She can't work? But she volunteers? She can't find a job that requires the same volunteer skills? Hmm. That seems odd.

There are people who are in some genuine trouble and don't know where to turn, but I can be very sure the Gov shouldn't be on the short list. It seems she is an example of what's working, if you read it. Various sources of funding have come together to provide her with care. It's rough, but none of this seems so very unfair that we have to change our entire country around.

I worked in credit/collections for a pharmacy for awhile, and they will work with you if you don't have insurance. Companies want to get paid something, rather than having to chase you down and pursue legal action that might not get results for years, if at all. Pay them even a portion of what you owe, as long as you really owe it.

Our country is going to have a rude awakening very soon. Too many people are mistaking Obama for Oprah.

Sandman33
07-02-2009, 01:20 PM
Don't buy the donut and save $1 and much more in the long run.


Then just RUN your fat ass to the donut store and back.:D

ItsTime
07-02-2009, 01:46 PM
"Debbie Smith, of Appalachia, Va., is a volunteer for Organizing for America, Obama's political operation within the Democratic National Committee. She obtained her ticket through the White House"

Wait I thought she couldnt work :eek:

devil21
07-02-2009, 03:08 PM
Tie this thread in with the grilling of Gibbs in the other thread and it makes perfect sense. It's a staged photo op and "tear jerker" appeal to emotion. Now I won't go as far as to say she is unhealthy just because of her weight (I have "overweight" friends that are very healthy people overall) but she seems like a poor choice. I mean who wouldnt see that and wonder if she's unhealthy because shes at least 100 pounds overweight?? She'll want free treatment for the inevitable diabetes diagnosis later too.

Golding
07-02-2009, 03:14 PM
If this fat ass can afford her daily box of jelly doughnuts and 2 liter sodas then there is NO reason she can't afford healthcare. I'd really like to know where people think they are owed a life if they let themselves fall into the health problem that exists in this video?

If I run 4-5 miles at least 4 times per week and watch what I eat, then I can only blame genetics or environmental exposures for any illness I suffer.... but like my Oma who is about 90 and in failing health, I won't ask anyone for a damn thing.

This woman is a joke....

and if anyone is looking, you can find sympathy in the dictionary between shit and syphilis.:rolleyes:

Her name is Debbie and she's ONLY 53! I wonder if she knows "Little Debbie"?Very cold, very shallow. It's that sort of attitude taken when arguing against public health care that drives people towards those that at least act like they care about other people. I know that when I make my case against public health care, I'm often burdened with being associated with attitudes like yours.

devil21
07-02-2009, 03:21 PM
Very cold, very shallow. It's that sort of attitude taken when arguing against public health care that drives people towards those that at least act like they care about other people. I know that when I make my case against public health care, I'm often burdened with being associated with attitudes like yours.

Who cares about being "shallow" when this woman likely brought her health problems on to herself? Is she absolved of her own responsibility because it may be "cold" to point out the obvious? Cancer is a common occurence in obese people. There's no debating that. Now she's crying because she's overweight, likely due to poor choices in earlier life and probably still to this day, and now can't afford healthcare. Call it shallow or cold but it's still the truth and we care more about the truth than being PC.

Objectivist
07-02-2009, 03:31 PM
Let's see you run those 4-5 miles even once a week after you have had heart surgery. I was in a lot better shape than I am now before I had three hernia repair surgeries done. Now my physician says I have a bad valve in my heart. Maybe I should get out and run 4-5 miles a couple of times a week so the valve will heal?

The reason I run and watch what I eat is so I don't have heart problems, then nobody lives forever.

Healthcare starts with caring for your health... and in most cases people only change their behavior after it's too late.

If you need a bigger size pant then don't you attribute that to weight gain? Have another soda fat ass.{not you}

Objectivist
07-02-2009, 03:38 PM
:rolleyes: according to the BMI i'm fat unless i turn into a toothpick, so i'm overweight, stop making fun of the jelly donut eaters!

Someone posted that she was a US Marine.... well maybe she missed the best movie about Marines ever filmed.

YouTube - Full Metal Jacket - Jelly Doughnut (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IayHnA0cGuc)

Objectivist
07-02-2009, 03:42 PM
I wouldn't be so harsh to her. People like to envision saviors, and Obama probably seems like a savior to her.

When we talk about healthcare, we need to explain how reducing healthcare costs is best done by removing government regulation, such as allowing people to buy insurance across state lines, remove regulations and mandates on insurance companies, adjust intellectual property regulations, abolish the FDA, etc.

Easy for you to figure out with a 140 IQ:cool:

Objectivist
07-02-2009, 03:45 PM
YouTube - Kennedy - I am a Berliner - Ich Bin Ein Berliner (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hH6nQhss4Yc)

The joke is that a Berliner is a Jelly Doughnut in Germany or more appropriately Berlin. So JFK was actually stating that he was a jelly doughnut, but I bet you already knew that Torch.

Objectivist
07-02-2009, 03:54 PM
Who cares about being "shallow" when this woman likely brought her health problems on to herself? Is she absolved of her own responsibility because it may be "cold" to point out the obvious? Cancer is a common occurence in obese people. There's no debating that. Now she's crying because she's overweight, likely due to poor choices in earlier life and probably still to this day, and now can't afford healthcare. Call it shallow or cold but it's still the truth and we care more about the truth than being PC.

Thank you!

I don't pull punches and people like Debbie need a slap across the face "SNAP OUT OF IT!!".

I'm proud of my Oma for walking 7-10 miles per day and maintaining a weight of 115 lbs at 5'5" for her adult life. She's made it to near 90 and has developed health problems. She is refusing treatment and wants to go home and be done with it. NO insistence of others to care for her and no guilt trips be pushed on the world... she understands that she has control of her life and did the best with what she has. Hell she was climbing a 6' ladder and washing her own windows a year ago.

I bet fat ass has to struggle getting off the couch.

Dr.3D
07-02-2009, 03:55 PM
The reason I run and watch what I eat is so I don't have heart problems, then nobody lives forever.

Healthcare starts with caring for your health... and in most cases people only change their behavior after it's too late.

If you need a bigger size pant then don't you attribute that to weight gain? Have another soda fat ass.{not you}

Didn't seem to help me to do all those things. I still developed a heart valve problem and nobody knows why it happened.

After having hernia surgery, it is very difficult to get enough exercise tell the pain of the surgery is gone. In my case, the pain lasted for a couple of years. Now with the valve problem, it is extremely difficult to get much exercise without passing out. Guess I'll have another soda. :D

Objectivist
07-02-2009, 04:15 PM
Didn't seem to help me to do all those things. I still developed a heart valve problem and nobody knows why it happened.

After having hernia surgery, it is very difficult to get enough exercise tell the pain of the surgery is gone. In my case, the pain lasted for a couple of years. Now with the valve problem, it is extremely difficult to get much exercise without passing out. Guess I'll have another soda. :D

I did mention genetics in my earlier post. But everybody can do some form of exercise starting out slow and working up, then cutting back on the calories is purely a choice.

Golding
07-02-2009, 04:16 PM
Who cares about being "shallow" when this woman likely brought her health problems on to herself? Is she absolved of her own responsibility because it may be "cold" to point out the obvious? Cancer is a common occurence in obese people. There's no debating that. Now she's crying because she's overweight, likely due to poor choices in earlier life and probably still to this day, and now can't afford healthcare. Call it shallow or cold but it's still the truth and we care more about the truth than being PC.Whether the woman brought her health problems on herself is somewhat irrelevant. Being right about a political issue is meaningless if it's argued inappropriately, because it makes the decision unstable.

I know there's this resounding "FUCK THE SHEEPLE" attitude among some members in this forum, but if you only have the idea without caring whether anyone will agree, you'll only go as far as fantasizing about the way things ought to be. Personally, I'd like a little more than bitching and fantasizing.

In all likelihood, her renal cell carcinoma came from her weight problem, which is likely a problem with her self-control. It's unfortunate that she probably did this to herself, but it's not exactly the reason health care is become too expensive for her. It's not the reason doctors are charging hundreds just to see patients. At the core of liberty is individual happiness. Making fun of this woman's problems isn't conducive to promoting liberty. No one wants any association with an inhumane movement.

nbhadja
07-02-2009, 04:26 PM
Didn't seem to help me to do all those things. I still developed a heart valve problem and nobody knows why it happened.

After having hernia surgery, it is very difficult to get enough exercise tell the pain of the surgery is gone. In my case, the pain lasted for a couple of years. Now with the valve problem, it is extremely difficult to get much exercise without passing out. Guess I'll have another soda. :D

What was your diet before you got that problem? Was it full of carbs, refined carbs, sugar, transfat?

In almost all cases, heart disease is the person's fault as they did not take care of their body.

Now you could be a rare exception, but that's the thing- a RARE exception.

Private charities can easily cover these rare exceptions, like they did until the early 70s when the government got involved and destroyed the health care industry. Up until the government murdered the health care industry in 1973, almost no one was turned away. Every one got coverage.

catdd
07-02-2009, 05:41 PM
Well it's just sickeningly apparent that it was staged.

ItsTime
07-02-2009, 05:45 PM
Well it's just sickeningly apparent that it was staged.

No doubt. And welcome to the board :D

Objectivist
07-02-2009, 06:07 PM
Whether the woman brought her health problems on herself is somewhat irrelevant. Being right about a political issue is meaningless if it's argued inappropriately, because it makes the decision unstable.

I know there's this resounding "FUCK THE SHEEPLE" attitude among some members in this forum, but if you only have the idea without caring whether anyone will agree, you'll only go as far as fantasizing about the way things ought to be. Personally, I'd like a little more than bitching and fantasizing.

In all likelihood, her renal cell carcinoma came from her weight problem, which is likely a problem with her self-control. It's unfortunate that she probably did this to herself, but it's not exactly the reason health care is become too expensive for her. It's not the reason doctors are charging hundreds just to see patients. At the core of liberty is individual happiness. Making fun of this woman's problems isn't conducive to promoting liberty. No one wants any association with an inhumane movement.

Making fun of her? NO, pointing out her stupidity and her choices using the "jelly doughnut" as an analogy of her likely food choices. I know she didn't get that fat overeating spinach or broccoli.

Healthcare became too expensive via government regulation as others have pointed out in this thread. Then treating people that don't belong here is another burden that has caused emergency rooms in my state to shut down.

coyote_sprit
07-02-2009, 06:07 PM
Someone posted that she was a US Marine.... well maybe she missed the best movie about Marines ever filmed.

YouTube - Full Metal Jacket - Jelly Doughnut (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IayHnA0cGuc)

Ronald Lee Ermey passed away today. :rolleyes:

Wait I forgot for just a minute that 4chan creating lies about this kind of stuff. Though Ermey is an unlikely target for it.

0zzy
07-02-2009, 06:19 PM
Ronald Lee Ermey passed away today. :rolleyes:

Wait I forgot for just a minute that 4chan creating lies about this kind of stuff. Though Ermey is an unlikely target for it.

DID NOT! You scared the bajeezes out of me.

http://b0.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/00718/06/76/718356760_l.jpg

Dr.3D
07-02-2009, 06:46 PM
What was your diet before you got that problem? Was it full of carbs, refined carbs, sugar, transfat?

In almost all cases, heart disease is the person's fault as they did not take care of their body.

Now you could be a rare exception, but that's the thing- a RARE exception.

Private charities can easily cover these rare exceptions, like they did until the early 70s when the government got involved and destroyed the health care industry. Up until the government murdered the health care industry in 1973, almost no one was turned away. Every one got coverage.

This isn't heart disease. It is a valve prolapse. Even babies have them happen to them. My diet was that I was eating 6 times a day and on a body building diet/program.

Here is a link to the diet I was following.
http://bodyforlife.com/nutrition/guidelines.asp

I was not fat in the least.

torchbearer
07-02-2009, 06:52 PM
This isn't heart disease. It is a valve prolapse. Even babies have them happen to them. My diet was that I was eating 6 times a day and on a body building diet/program.

Here is a link to the diet I was following.
http://bodyforlife.com/nutrition/guidelines.asp

I was not fat in the least.

I have a mitral valve prolapse and familial essential tremors.

Objectivist
07-02-2009, 06:53 PM
This isn't heart disease. It is a valve prolapse. Even babies have them happen to them. My diet was that I was eating 6 times a day and on a body building diet/program.

Here is a link to the diet I was following.
http://bodyforlife.com/nutrition/guidelines.asp

I was not fat in the least.

Like I stated earlier, genetics enter the picture.... who is a fault if it is?

Dr.3D
07-02-2009, 07:07 PM
Like I stated earlier, genetics enter the picture.... who is a fault if it is?

Wow, must be the fault of the state for not having eugenics soon enough. :rolleyes:

No, really... when you look at people and say it is their own fault they are having health problems, you have to also think about the possibility of their being other reasons they are sick.

Golding
07-02-2009, 08:08 PM
Making fun of her? NO, pointing out her stupidity and her choices using the "jelly doughnut" as an analogy of her likely food choices. I know she didn't get that fat overeating spinach or broccoli.

Healthcare became too expensive via government regulation as others have pointed out in this thread. Then treating people that don't belong here is another burden that has caused emergency rooms in my state to shut down."If this fat ass can afford her daily box of jelly doughnuts and 2 liter sodas then there is NO reason she can't afford healthcare."

"Her name is Debbie and she's ONLY 53! I wonder if she knows 'Little Debbie'?"

Deny it if it makes you feel warm, but you were just making fun of the lady. Like I said, you're just acting like the kind of callous douchebag that just hands the public healthcare arguers the image of humanity.

In my experience, overweight people come from overweight families. It's unfortunately a hereditary thing, even if not necessarily a genetic thing. When kids are put in an eating routine that matches their families, they are outright doomed to a life of obesity because their adipose becomes hypertrophic rather than hyperplastic. They develop more fat cells in number and size, rather than just in size. How is that going to go away? By dieting and exercise? That keeps the adipose smaller, but it doesn't get rid of it. Anyone who has had the experience of having to lose weight (which seemingly is something you've been fortunate enough not to have to go through) can tell you that lost weight comes back with a vengeance. Some of my colleagues have lost 45 pounds over a year, only to see it come back in excess in a matter of months because of more intensive classes taking up the day. No jelly doughnuts involved. If you can come to terms with the fact that not everyone enjoys the benefits of good genetics and a good upbringing, I can only hope it makes you a little bit more humble about how much better you think you are than speople who suffer... even if it's from their own doing.

Though we very likely agree on the way healthcare should be approached in the US (or really, how it should NOT be approached), I just find the decision to ridicule the unhealthy counterproductive. What deserves to be pointed out in the video isn't that the lady is sick because she let her weight go out of control. It's that Obama admits that the cost of healthcare won't go away just by making it public -- that it's just "hidden". That is, the government collection basket will have to get bigger.

Objectivist
07-02-2009, 08:19 PM
"If this fat ass can afford her daily box of jelly doughnuts and 2 liter sodas then there is NO reason she can't afford healthcare."

"Her name is Debbie and she's ONLY 53! I wonder if she knows 'Little Debbie'?"

Deny it if it makes you feel warm, but you were just making fun of the lady. Like I said, you're just acting like the kind of callous douchebag that just hands the public healthcare arguers the image of humanity.

In my experience, overweight people come from overweight families. It's unfortunately a hereditary thing, even if not necessarily a genetic thing. When kids are put in an eating routine that matches their families, they are outright doomed to a life of obesity because their adipose becomes hypertrophic rather than hyperplastic. They develop more fat cells in number and size, rather than just in size. How is that going to go away? By dieting and exercise? That keeps the adipose smaller, but it doesn't get rid of it. Anyone who has had the experience of having to lose weight (which seemingly is something you've been fortunate enough not to have to go through) can tell you that lost weight comes back with a vengeance. Some of my colleagues have lost 45 pounds over a year, only to see it come back in excess in a matter of months because of more intensive classes taking up the day. No jelly doughnuts involved. If you can come to terms with the fact that not everyone enjoys the benefits of good genetics and a good upbringing, I can only hope it makes you a little bit more humble about how much better you think you are than speople who suffer... even if it's from their own doing.

Though we very likely agree on the way healthcare should be approached in the US (or really, how it should NOT be approached), I just find the decision to ridicule the unhealthy counterproductive. What deserves to be pointed out in the video isn't that the lady is sick because she let her weight go out of control. It's that Obama admits that the cost of healthcare won't go away just by making it public -- that it's just "hidden". That is, the government collection basket will have to get bigger.

I'm not making fun, I'm condemning her for her behavior and piss poor life choices. She should have more self-respect if she was really a Marine like someone suggested.

Stuffing food down your gullet is a personal choice not a hereditary thing. This country has become a bunch of fat-bodies over the past few decades and comforting fat people isn't going to make our healthcare system work any better.

But if you choose to be a fat-ass then choke on a jelly doughnut, I don't care. Just don't come to me looking for a MRI or free treatment.

I was a Lifeguard once and I stopped when I realized that stupidity should be painful. I've seen idiots walk out on the jetty in 20 foot seas to get a closer look:mad: Then people will head to the beach when they hear a tsunami warning on the radio or television. SSDD

Golding
07-02-2009, 08:38 PM
I'm not making fun, I'm condemning her for her behavior and piss poor life choices. She should have more self-respect if she was really a Marine like someone suggested.

Stuffing food down your gullet is a personal choice not a hereditary thing. This country has become a bunch of fat-bodies over the past few decades and comforting fat people isn't going to make our healthcare system work any better.

But if you choose to be a fat-ass then choke on a jelly doughnut, I don't care. Just don't come to me looking for a MRI or free treatment.

I was a Lifeguard once and I stopped when I realized that stupidity should be painful. I've seen idiots walk out on the jetty in 20 foot seas to get a closer look:mad: Then people will head to the beach when they hear a tsunami warning on the radio or television. SSDDSee, the thing here is that you've just repeated the asinine BS that I already addressed. Should I just take this to mean that you don't really have anything else to defend your point?

I describe to you how obesity unfortunately has familial lineage to it. You reply "no it doesn't". I describe to you the difficulty for people who try to keep weight off, you continue to insist that they're just "choking on a jelly donut". Well-debated. Frankly, people like you are an embarrassment to the argument against public healthcare. It's fine, I guess, that you're disgusted with obesity. But maybe you should be a little less impressed with yourself. Health issues happen, and yeah sometimes it happens because people do dumb things. Not everyone can be as smart as you, I suppose. Doesn't make the outrageous cost of healthcare any less outrageous, and that outrageous cost of healthcare is independent of the fact that this woman happened to be large.

devil21
07-03-2009, 04:29 AM
Whether the woman brought her health problems on herself is somewhat irrelevant. Being right about a political issue is meaningless if it's argued inappropriately, because it makes the decision unstable.

Irrelevant? Are you serious? Someone harms themself and it's irrelevant when others have to pay for that harm that they had nothing to do with?



I know there's this resounding "FUCK THE SHEEPLE" attitude among some members in this forum, but if you only have the idea without caring whether anyone will agree, you'll only go as far as fantasizing about the way things ought to be. Personally, I'd like a little more than bitching and fantasizing.

I refuse to dumb myself down. I prefer to try to lift other people up. Dumbing down is what got us to this point. It's time for some tough medicine. And I don't mean socialized....



In all likelihood, her renal cell carcinoma came from her weight problem, which is likely a problem with her self-control. It's unfortunate that she probably did this to herself, but it's not exactly the reason health care is become too expensive for her. It's not the reason doctors are charging hundreds just to see patients. At the core of liberty is individual happiness. Making fun of this woman's problems isn't conducive to promoting liberty. No one wants any association with an inhumane movement.

So let me get this straight. The rising cost of medical care has nothing to do with a swelling population. Swelling in both the average size of the person and the size of the population. That is your statement? I see it as more people taking less care of themselves and then becoming an expense that is passed on to everyone else. Don't even get me started on the free services to illegals. As the population gets sicker (evidenced by obesity among other things) due to self-neglect plus a steady influx of people that can't pay their own way, the only logical outcome is higher costs for everyone that can pay.

No one is making fun of her. I am pointing out the absolute hypocrisy and absurdity of the situation.
"The fat chick is crying that she got sick because she's fat and now she can't afford the care necessary to treat the illness that she brought on herself by allowing herself to be fat." That's pretty much as dumbed down as it gets already.

devil21
07-03-2009, 04:32 AM
DID NOT! You scared the bajeezes out of me.

http://b0.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/00718/06/76/718356760_l.jpg

Wow I was about to get a little creeped out. I randomly wore my "Gunny Approved" Glock T-shirt out tonite. Thought I had paid tribute and didn't even know it.

"This is my Glock. There are many like it but this one is mine."

youngbuck
07-03-2009, 04:36 AM
Yea... doctors are obligated to treat you, and exert their expertise, after working harder than you ever will or would've in your entire life just to get through school.

Such an idea is sickening.

Hear Obama talk about "the long term goal."

Yea, we can see it, and it's hardcore collectivism.

Golding
07-03-2009, 09:17 PM
Irrelevant? Are you serious? Someone harms themself and it's irrelevant when others have to pay for that harm that they had nothing to do with?Please read and understand the post before you reply. It'll allow you to respond based on thought instead of just emotion. The argument isn't whether her disease is come from a self-afflicted source. It's a question of tact when it comes to ridiculing the sick when it comes to their financial problems.


I refuse to dumb myself down. I prefer to try to lift other people up. Dumbing down is what got us to this point. It's time for some tough medicine. And I don't mean socialized....Not being a douchebag =/= dumbing yourself down.


So let me get this straight. The rising cost of medical care has nothing to do with a swelling population. Swelling in both the average size of the person and the size of the population. That is your statement? I see it as more people taking less care of themselves and then becoming an expense that is passed on to everyone else. Don't even get me started on the free services to illegals. As the population gets sicker (evidenced by obesity among other things) due to self-neglect plus a steady influx of people that can't pay their own way, the only logical outcome is higher costs for everyone that can pay.You're right that the rising total cost of an individual's health care is contributed to by unhealthy behaviors. But the rising cost of each visit has less to do with that. A doctor charging her $100-200 just to have a patient interview with her doesn't have to do with her weight. It has to do with the scarcity of doctors, and their per-patient costs vs. benefit.

I won't get you started on free services to illegals, because it's not really what's being discussed.


No one is making fun of her.Yeah, now it's kind of obvious that you haven't been reading.

Bruno
07-03-2009, 09:59 PM
She is an Obama supporter who was put in that seat to ask that question. 'nuff said.

RideTheDirt
07-03-2009, 11:43 PM
Obama said

"In a country this wealthy, we should be able to provide for her health care problems"

Hasn't any one told him about the $12 trillion national debt yet?
This is exactly what I was thinking.

Blueskies
07-04-2009, 12:19 AM
In my experience, overweight people come from overweight families. It's unfortunately a hereditary thing, even if not necessarily a genetic thing. When kids are put in an eating routine that matches their families, they are outright doomed to a life of obesity because their adipose becomes hypertrophic rather than hyperplastic. They develop more fat cells in number and size, rather than just in size. How is that going to go away? By dieting and exercise? That keeps the adipose smaller, but it doesn't get rid of it. Anyone who has had the experience of having to lose weight (which seemingly is something you've been fortunate enough not to have to go through) can tell you that lost weight comes back with a vengeance. Some of my colleagues have lost 45 pounds over a year, only to see it come back in excess in a matter of months because of more intensive classes taking up the day. No jelly doughnuts involved. If you can come to terms with the fact that not everyone enjoys the benefits of good genetics and a good upbringing, I can only hope it makes you a little bit more humble about how much better you think you are than speople who suffer... even if it's from their own doing.

Allow me to end this line of reasoning:

I lost 120 lbs via diet and exercise. I have since kept it off for over five years.

How? I workout and I don't eat dessert--ever. Difficult? Maybe. Impossible? Certainly not.

Being a little overweight is one thing and can reasonably be blamed on poor genetics, upbringing, or stress.

However, being obese (such as the woman in the video) is an entirely different matter and can only be blamed on the individual. If you're 25, 30, 50+ lbs overweight, that is your fault, and there is no excuse baring the presence of some extremely rare medical condition.

Further, the two conditions the woman cries over--lack of job&cancer--are perhaps due to her poor personal decisions. Obesity has been proven to increase cancer rates and there are many jobs unavailable to the obese (manual labor for one).

I've kept the weight off for so long now, that many people I've since met had no idea that I was ever fat. It comes as great pleasure to me to reveal this fact to a fat person who wants to blame their problems on everyone but themselves. Personal Responsibility, people.

Brooklyn Red Leg
07-04-2009, 12:58 AM
Whether she did this to herself or not is beside the fucking point. She is robbing the rest of us to pay for government controlled (ie - monopolistic) health that will lead to a reduction in the ability of the current system to deal with people. Instead of getting government OUT of the equation, breaking the back of the scam health insurance industry and the AMA Guild, all of which would dramatically reduce costs, she's just going to make the system worse. Then it will be government bureaucrats who determine what you eat, drink and basically live your life.

There is a mountain of pseudo-scientific bullshit being foisted on us by the 'weight loss industry' which doesn't want to kill the goose that laid the golden egg. The fact they have the government behind them should make people question the current accepted models of weight gain/loss when there is now emerging evidence that shows weight gain/fatness is an evolutionary development considering that for the majority of the Hominid experience the planet has been locked in one Ice Age after another.

Piss on this woman. I don't give a flying fuck if she is blaming this shit on her eating jelly donuts or not. Fucking man up and admit you're life is your own. Stop being a goddamn pussy and expecting everyone else to take care of you. Fucking pull your head out of your ass and realise that if we had a simple Patient-Doctor private contractual relationship free of government and guild influence, health costs would be negligible.

coyote_sprit
07-04-2009, 01:05 AM
Fat people need to realized that in the end it will be like England, they might like it at first until the slaves of the system(doctors) start saying they shouldn't have to care for fat, old or terminally ill people and why should they it's their fucking choice.

Warrior_of_Freedom
07-04-2009, 01:09 AM
wtf is with this hate for fat people, first of all there's this misconception that being overweight automatically means you're unhealthy, because there can be a correlation between being fat and eating crap foods, but you can be fat and still be healthy, shit Benjamin Franklin was a horse and he lived until 84.

0zzy
07-04-2009, 01:42 AM
wtf is with this hate for fat people, first of all there's this misconception that being overweight automatically means you're unhealthy, because there can be a correlation between being fat and eating crap foods, but you can be fat and still be healthy, shit Benjamin Franklin was a horse and he lived until 84.

I agree. And there also seems to be a misconception here that people searching for help when they may very well can't work as "lazy fat people who eat all the time! They just want the government to take care of them when they really can take care of themselves! LETS THROW STONES!" Instead we should educate and inform of a better way to treat someone like this, rather than criticizing all the time. That's no way to make progress.

coyote_sprit
07-04-2009, 01:43 AM
wtf is with this hate for fat people, first of all there's this misconception that being overweight automatically means you're unhealthy, because there can be a correlation between being fat and eating crap foods, but you can be fat and still be healthy, shit Benjamin Franklin was a horse and he lived until 84.

Benjamin Franklin would never have asked that others pay his doctor bills though. My problem with this is that she is asking others take suffer the consequences of her choice and I'm merely pointing out that fat people are one of the first to be targeted when universal healthcare receives budget cuts.

devil21
07-04-2009, 01:52 AM
wtf is with this hate for fat people, first of all there's this misconception that being overweight automatically means you're unhealthy, because there can be a correlation between being fat and eating crap foods, but you can be fat and still be healthy, shit Benjamin Franklin was a horse and he lived until 84.

The hate isn't on fat people. It is fat people that then develop health problems likely caused by being (staying?) fat. Then wanting everyone else to pay for those problems. Even with my vitriol for this planted "sob story" I mentioned that I know overweight (by 30 pounds, not 100) people that are healthy as can be.

I imagine theres lots of bias both ways on this sort of subject. I have a body fat of less than 5% and have never struggled with weight issues or eating compulsions. I get the feeling that those advising to "go easy" on the fat people are those that have had to live with obesity in their lives in some form.



Please read and understand the post before you reply. It'll allow you to respond based on thought instead of just emotion. The argument isn't whether her disease is come from a self-afflicted source. It's a question of tact when it comes to ridiculing the sick when it comes to their financial problems.

I dont subscribe to soft language either.

George Carlin on Soft Language:
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=7313467

TGGRV
07-04-2009, 07:12 AM
Obese kids come from obese families because they share the same lifestyle with their parents, which got the parents fat in the first place.

MelissaWV
07-04-2009, 07:26 AM
Obese kids come from obese families because they share the same lifestyle with their parents, which got the parents fat in the first place.

Blanket statements like this are pretty darned ignorant. There are diseases out there that are genetic, and they aren't "rare and almost unheard of" (as another poster implied). PCOS, for instance, causes the woman to hoard weight around her middle. A lot of women with PCOS have slender arms and legs, but soft middles. It can get to a point she looks pregnant. Hormone therapies and sometimes surgery are required to get the condition under control. It's an unpleasant disease with a lot of "ugly" symptoms.

Women with PCOS can also end up "obese" and they are likely to end up with insulin issues.

This is not every case, but look it up; this is one disease, and it's not that rare, and it runs in families.

Now, having said that, one can still lose that weight over time, but it's not just going to fly/melt off with diet and exercise. It's a slow process. Again, that's one thing. There are other diseases, too.

There are also factors such as parental lifestyle, which you touched upon, that are long-lasting. Do both parents work? Then the child is far more likely to eat processed foods, and a lot of them. Mommy and daddy are busy, so McDonald's is dinner. Some sort of pre-packaged garbage is a snack. Coke is better than water! Milk? Bah! Give that kid some juice instead. Cookies are better than crackers. Lunchables are so much easier than making a sandwich. If we make the kid a sandwich, let's make sure it's something fattening at triple the serving size. Convenience is an illusion, but a lot of people today were conditioned to think it's true. It really doesn't take that long to make fresh food.

If the parents are sitting on their tushies watching television, then the only way the child is going to get time with them (there is an age where children idolize their parents) is to sit and watch TV. Drive everywhere. Battle and curse for the spot closest to the store. Eat at restaurants where the portion is enough to feed a family of four. Order delivery (when one is too lazy, even, to go out and get the food).

It all adds up, but the genetic component is a bit more complicated than people care to admit. The only trouble is when any of this becomes an excuse.

As for us paying for this woman, self-inflicted or no, I've expressed my views on the topic. It's nonsense.

TGGRV
07-04-2009, 08:01 AM
Yes, 70% of Americans have insulin issues. Give me a break.

MelissaWV
07-04-2009, 09:17 AM
Yes, 70% of Americans have insulin issues. Give me a break.

Again, your unwillingness to learn anything on the topic leaves you at a disadvantage. I said nothing about 70% of Americans. I spoke directly of women with PCOS, and potential problems they might encounter. It isn't a rare condition, it does interfere with weight loss in certain areas of the body (while leaving others potentially slender), and it does sometimes lead to insulin issues which require care.

And again, I don't want to pay for anyone else's problems --- self-made or genetic. Calling the woman in the video a fatass, as some have, and implying that's the reason not to pay for her care is counter-productive. It ignores the core issue, and it implies that one can visually determine who is "worthy" of pity or care. Legislating that pity or care should be off-limits, no matter what happened to the person in question.

Golding
07-04-2009, 11:28 AM
I dont subscribe to soft language either.

George Carlin on Soft Language:
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=7313467Any reason you quoted me to talk about how you don't subscribe to soft language? I never suggested you did, or you should. I said that instead of using a buzzword as an excuse to emotionally rant about a pet peeve of yours that has nothing to do with the discussion you're participating in, you could actually take the time to understand what's really being discussed and weigh in on that.

Or is it that an informed response too much soft language for you?

angelatc
07-04-2009, 12:46 PM
"I can't work"?

She does work. She's just too busy to find a job that actually pays cash.


Debby Smith, however, is no ordinary patient. While she may be “unemployed,” she has been rather busy working for the Obama campaign – as a volunteer for Organizing for America. It’s the old Obama for Change political machine now housed under the Democratic National Committee. Smith has also identified herself as a worker for the Virginia Organizing Project, which has been coordinating lobbying trips and health care forums with HCAN. Yes, that same HCAN.

In December, Smith moderated a “a community discussion on health care issues” in Appalachia, Virginia and told her local paper that the meeting “would be reported back to former Sen. Tom Daschle, who has been directed by President Elect Barack Obama to form a committee to report on health care issues.”

Every single person who came forward to be healed has political ties.

Jason Rosenbaum works for Health Care for America Now, an astroturf organization with a $40 million lobbying budget.

The other one of the three identified herself as a member of the Service Employees International Union, an organization that spent $61 million to elect Barack Obama. Their former health care lobbyist is now the White House director of the office of political affairs.


“I’m not saying there has never been managed news before, but this is carried to fare-thee-well--for the town halls, for the press conferences,” she said. “It’s blatant. They don’t give a damn if you know it or not. They ought to be hanging their heads in shame.”- Helen Thomas

nbhadja
07-04-2009, 12:59 PM
Blanket statements like this are pretty darned ignorant. There are diseases out there that are genetic, and they aren't "rare and almost unheard of" (as another poster implied). PCOS, for instance, causes the woman to hoard weight around her middle. A lot of women with PCOS have slender arms and legs, but soft middles. It can get to a point she looks pregnant. Hormone therapies and sometimes surgery are required to get the condition under control. It's an unpleasant disease with a lot of "ugly" symptoms.

Women with PCOS can also end up "obese" and they are likely to end up with insulin issues.

This is not every case, but look it up; this is one disease, and it's not that rare, and it runs in families.

Now, having said that, one can still lose that weight over time, but it's not just going to fly/melt off with diet and exercise. It's a slow process. Again, that's one thing. There are other diseases, too.

There are also factors such as parental lifestyle, which you touched upon, that are long-lasting. Do both parents work? Then the child is far more likely to eat processed foods, and a lot of them. Mommy and daddy are busy, so McDonald's is dinner. Some sort of pre-packaged garbage is a snack. Coke is better than water! Milk? Bah! Give that kid some juice instead. Cookies are better than crackers. Lunchables are so much easier than making a sandwich. If we make the kid a sandwich, let's make sure it's something fattening at triple the serving size. Convenience is an illusion, but a lot of people today were conditioned to think it's true. It really doesn't take that long to make fresh food.

If the parents are sitting on their tushies watching television, then the only way the child is going to get time with them (there is an age where children idolize their parents) is to sit and watch TV. Drive everywhere. Battle and curse for the spot closest to the store. Eat at restaurants where the portion is enough to feed a family of four. Order delivery (when one is too lazy, even, to go out and get the food).

It all adds up, but the genetic component is a bit more complicated than people care to admit. The only trouble is when any of this becomes an excuse.

As for us paying for this woman, self-inflicted or no, I've expressed my views on the topic. It's nonsense.

Very few people are genetically fat, it is just that they eat large amounts of refined carbs and sugar and then wonder why they are fat.

angelatc
07-04-2009, 01:04 PM
wtf is with this hate for fat people, first of all there's this misconception that being overweight automatically means you're unhealthy, because there can be a correlation between being fat and eating crap foods, but you can be fat and still be healthy, shit Benjamin Franklin was a horse and he lived until 84.

Half the people here are still in their 20's. Think about it.

Blueskies
07-04-2009, 01:23 PM
Again, your unwillingness to learn anything on the topic leaves you at a disadvantage. I said nothing about 70% of Americans. I spoke directly of women with PCOS, and potential problems they might encounter. It isn't a rare condition, it does interfere with weight loss in certain areas of the body (while leaving others potentially slender), and it does sometimes lead to insulin issues which require care.

PCOS effects 2.5% of the population. On top of that, it doesn't always cause obesity.

Nine out ten obese people are obese because of their own poor decisions.

I have no problem with obese people, having formerly been one. My problem lies with those who don't want to take responsibility for themselves. This manifests itself in a variety of ways:

It's not my fault that I'm fat! My parents didn't teach me proper eating habits!

It's not my fault that I didn't go to college! I never received the support!

It's not my fault that I'm an alcoholic! The gene runs in my family!

Again, personal responsibility. It is quite central to our ideology--if a person cannot be responsible for themselves, why then perhaps the state should be...

TGGRV
07-04-2009, 02:40 PM
Melissa, I didn't use the words all and you replied to me like I did. The majority of obese people come from lifestyle decisions, not diseases.

Of course, there's something of 1% of obese/overweight people being that way because of certain conditions, which by the way are facilitated by lifestyle in a lot of cases.

MelissaWV
07-04-2009, 03:00 PM
PCOS effects 2.5% of the population. On top of that, it doesn't always cause obesity.

Nine out ten obese people are obese because of their own poor decisions.

I have no problem with obese people, having formerly been one. My problem lies with those who don't want to take responsibility for themselves. This manifests itself in a variety of ways:

It's not my fault that I'm fat! My parents didn't teach me proper eating habits!

It's not my fault that I didn't go to college! I never received the support!

It's not my fault that I'm an alcoholic! The gene runs in my family!

Again, personal responsibility. It is quite central to our ideology--if a person cannot be responsible for themselves, why then perhaps the state should be...

Personal responsibility is important, but it isn't the only thing. Nothing I've said keeps people from losing weight, but changes how they lose weight, and may require additional care. 2.5% of the population is not a "rare genetic disease," as one poster earlier noted, and as I said it is just one condition. I find it ridiculous to characterize, based solely on someone's looks (as some have done) that it is purely and entirely a case of jelly doughnuts. I have seen lots of Ron Paul supporters who are definitely a bit broad in the beams. Somehow, they don't get that same response. (See pix of rpf members thread)

To pounce on the woman's appearance is a dismaying thing. Why not focus, instead, on all the other fishy things involving this woman who "happens" to be an Obama volunteer, but "can't" find work? Some posters have done that; kudos to them! Some are, instead, looking for an excuse to dig out a fat joke at the expense of someone they see as an enemy. I really could not care any less WHY she is the size she is. I'm not going to date her, so her physical appearance has even less bearing on my evaluation of her than it normally might. She could be 1500 pounds, and so long as she doesn't want my money to rent a flatbed truck to drive her around like that Mexican guy had... I'm okay with her! :D

devil21
07-04-2009, 03:26 PM
Any reason you quoted me to talk about how you don't subscribe to soft language? I never suggested you did, or you should. I said that instead of using a buzzword as an excuse to emotionally rant about a pet peeve of yours that has nothing to do with the discussion you're participating in, you could actually take the time to understand what's really being discussed and weigh in on that.

Or is it that an informed response too much soft language for you?

You criticized my comments as essentially lacking the tact to appeal to sheep. Presumably because I use those bad words like "sick fat chick", instead of "woman suffering from a weight disorder caused illness". That is soft language. I do not do soft language. People have been treated with kid gloves for too long and it's a big reason why our society has gotten to this point. Nobody wants to call a spade a spade anymore for fear of offending or seeming tactless. A point where a fat chick cries on camera to the President about how shes sick and cant afford medical care, likely because shes fat and cant find a job that requires her to actually work. You're free to soften it up to appeal to the ignorant masses all you like. Im just keepin it real.

Did you even watch the video? I thought my point was pretty obvious.

Objectivist
07-04-2009, 03:58 PM
She is an Obama supporter who was put in that seat to ask that question. 'nuff said.

I hear ya Bruno!

What's laughable is people defending poor life choices and the neglect of self shown in the video clip. Eating makes you fat if you have no self control.

Objectivist
07-04-2009, 04:05 PM
wtf is with this hate for fat people, first of all there's this misconception that being overweight automatically means you're unhealthy, because there can be a correlation between being fat and eating crap foods, but you can be fat and still be healthy, shit Benjamin Franklin was a horse and he lived until 84.

Be a glutton I don't care other than the expectation of others to provide you with healthcare and handicapped parking spots. Reality is fat-asses are good for the economy if you take the health issue out of the equation, they eat more and usually require more natural resources like fuel to haul their fat-asses around. SO as a sit here watching the Hot Dog Eating Contest on ESPN, choke one down for the economy.

And I didn't know Mr Franklin received free healthcare.

Golding
07-04-2009, 06:39 PM
You criticized my comments as essentially lacking the tact to appeal to sheep. Presumably because I use those bad words like "sick fat chick", instead of "woman suffering from a weight disorder caused illness". That is soft language. I do not do soft language. People have been treated with kid gloves for too long and it's a big reason why our society has gotten to this point. Nobody wants to call a spade a spade anymore for fear of offending or seeming tactless. A point where a fat chick cries on camera to the President about how shes sick and cant afford medical care, likely because shes fat and cant find a job that requires her to actually work. You're free to soften it up to appeal to the ignorant masses all you like. Im just keepin it real.

Did you even watch the video? I thought my point was pretty obvious.You presume wrong, of course. Strictly speaking, I criticized Objectivist's tactlessness and unidimentional idiocy in focusing solely on how to make the next fat joke. You sort of just interjected yourself into the conversation somewhere in there. If you relate to Objectivist's "arguments" (if you can call them that), then I'll be sure to include you in the criticism that you're a douchebag that does only harm to the argument against public health care with your idiotic attitude towards people. Otherwise, I never really said anything about the way you specifically approached anything.

Unfortunately, you're kind of deviating into this (frankly, stupid) argument of I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO CENSOR MYSELF TO APPEASE ANYONE ELSE CUZ IM KEEPIN IT REAL. In your 20's, I'm guessing? I remember when I was oblivious like that, too. Don't fool yourself into thinking that you've gained some sort of insight from a George Carlin routine that just about everyone's already seen years before you.

By all means, if you really think that cracking fat jokes is a suitable reaction against an argument for public healthcare, then you easily could do it. If you don't care that it drives people away from your position in disgust, then go for it. But then don't bitch when public health care finally does happen. It won't be because the people who agreed with that idea are stupid sheep. It's because you, the person who had the wherewithal to disagree with the idea, were too much of an idiot to actually elaborate a humane and well-reasoned explanation why it doesn't work. It's not because the people are "sheep". It's because no one wants to fashion the country around the ideas of an asshole. For good reason.

That's the reality of the situation, here. You're not compromising anything or speaking softly by not being a douchebag. The choice is between mindlessly ridiculing anyone who thinks something differently than you and driving them away, or actually making a meaningful observation that could steer people (and yourself, incidentally) away from a bad decision.

devil21
07-05-2009, 01:40 AM
It's because no one wants to fashion the country around the ideas of an asshole.

Is it fair to say that this statement is the root of your long winded diatribe? If so, you just described why people use soft language and why I detest it. Carlin explains it well. He has millions of views on his videos so why slander him as being old hat? Anyway, people like you are more worried about being an asshole than being correct. Yeah, I do know that pointing out the harsh obviousness makes one an asshole these days. It goes to show why Paul supporters were demonized since we are right and everyone knows it. Being nice is more important than being right these days. Being nice and lying wins elections. Telling the truth doesn't.

Btw, I doubt anything will or won't happen, such as socialised healthcare, simply because I post my thoughts on a website. Get a grip.

Objectivist
07-05-2009, 03:46 AM
Here's a favorite argument of mine, see how it works out in your mind and then try it on someone. Remember there is no logical fallacy if we all agree that stealing is immoral. This is from another forum that I posted some time ago.......


Liberal Progressive Democrats, Ignorant or Immoral?
After the period of time I've been here I've come to one of two conclusions, It's what I do, find denominators. In the forums I've visited I have found LPDs stating they are for government programs to help those that are less fortunate, which is admirable if it is true. I think most of us step up to the plate as Americans when our fellow man is in dire straits. Some here will suggest that only 'they' are on the side of good.

Now if you have the capacity to determine where help is needed then why do you have a problem delivering that solution on your own? Why do you think the government needs to be involved? Because you can stand in line at the grocery store and donate to most charities, or spend 5 minutes online and you could donate to any charity or organization you so choose. Anything from the Red Cross to United Way or the Homeless Shelter or the SPCA. IS it that you are stupid or ignorant? DO you really not know which organizations need help? You do know that you can start your own charity rather simply by visiting a CPA and filing out some paperwork?

SO if you are not stupid and are capable of sending funds to any charity of your choice or forming one of your own, then you would be immoral to force other free people to do it in your name. Isn't that what you are doing in fact, immorally taking(by force if needed)money from one person and then pretending it came from you or your group? That's what it looks like when you force another to contribute against their will and then the leaders of your group take credit for it, in your name. Immorality at it's peak and definitely not freedom loving people.

I'm only left with two conclusions on the issue of government assistance in the realm of welfare or social spending programs, either LPDs are ignorant or immoral. Which is it? Because I've laid out the options that are available to you with todays technology and I cannot come up with another option at the base. Unless you think you are more ignorant than the politicians you elected as the leaders of your group? I wouldn't guess that for most LPD that I've run into, there are some though.

.........I can apply this to any number of LPD programs and seeing that 69 million people voted for BO, why don't they pool their resources and start their own damn healthcare system? Blue Cross has 100 million customers and many would switch to the BO Plan if it looked good, wouldn't they?

My latest addition would be to question why don't the politicians that support this healthcare system give up the one they currently use in favor of the one they are going to IMMORALLY FORCE people to use? Yeah you heard me, if you don't have health insurance the Obama Administration plans on penalizing you by charging you a $1000.00 fine. This story came via the AP two days ago but some of here knew it all along because we pay attention to details when the devil is in them.
Note again I asked a question about being ignorant or immoral, not a statement.

PreDeadMan
07-05-2009, 04:38 PM
Hello all I always visit these forums seldom do I post here but I will start. I believe the obese lady in the video might have been a setup for Obama to use as an example in his little stupid socialist medicine agenda he wants. He did mention something about all of us being responsible for her care and hidden costs or something to that nature that we have to pay for geez.... I believe in personal responsibility not laying the burden of your decisions on other people....
Being an obese person myself 6 months ago i was 295 i'm 6 feet tall I did not blame anyone for me being obese. I was scarfing down a hoagie,doritos,gummi bears,macaroni salad 6 cans of diet soda every few days and I was literally addicted to the junk foods.
If it wasn't for my family pushing me to lose weight and my own motivation i'd probably have bad medical conditions by now.... I'm down to 208 pounds. I'm extremely proud of myself I know i'm not considered average weight just a tiny bit overweight I guess according to those Bmi calculators lol i dunno just though i'd throw that out there. But my point being it was my fault for being obese I looked into that mirror and didn't like seeing the bloated me that was there. So i did something about it. Started a south beach type of diet exercised my butt off (baseball,basketball,running,). I'm hoping to reach my 2nd goal weight lol my first was to get down to 220 that's surpassed getting down to 190 would be sweet :)

Objectivist
07-05-2009, 05:16 PM
Hello all I always visit these forums seldom do I post here but I will start. I believe the obese lady in the video might have been a setup for Obama to use as an example in his little stupid socialist medicine agenda he wants. He did mention something about all of us being responsible for her care and hidden costs or something to that nature that we have to pay for geez.... I believe in personal responsibility not laying the burden of your decisions on other people....
Being an obese person myself 6 months ago i was 295 i'm 6 feet tall I did not blame anyone for me being obese. I was scarfing down a hoagie,doritos,gummi bears,macaroni salad 6 cans of diet soda every few days and I was literally addicted to the junk foods.
If it wasn't for my family pushing me to lose weight and my own motivation i'd probably have bad medical conditions by now.... I'm down to 208 pounds. I'm extremely proud of myself I know i'm not considered average weight just a tiny bit overweight I guess according to those Bmi calculators lol i dunno just though i'd throw that out there. But my point being it was my fault for being obese I looked into that mirror and didn't like seeing the bloated me that was there. So i did something about it. Started a south beach type of diet exercised my butt off (baseball,basketball,running,). I'm hoping to reach my 2nd goal weight lol my first was to get down to 220 that's surpassed getting down to 190 would be sweet :)

Good job!:cool:

Golding
07-06-2009, 01:05 PM
Is it fair to say that this statement is the root of your long winded diatribe? If so, you just described why people use soft language and why I detest it.Man, you're dense. I'm not sure how many times I should repeat it before it sinks in for you, but it's not "soft language" to avoid driving people away in disgust from your position.

That seems to be your problem, though. You see more than 2 lines of text, your eyes glaze over, and then you cop-out with a lame characterization like "long-winded diatribe".


Carlin explains it well. He has millions of views on his videos so why slander him as being old hat?Man, you're dense. I'm not slandering him as old hat. You're just treating his bit as if it's some sort of mantra to model your life after. I'm just posing to you that a comedy routine is just that.

People like you who post George Carlin or Bill Hicks as a substitute for an independent thought are just something I shake my head at in disappointment.


Anyway, people like you are more worried about being an asshole than being correct. Yeah, I do know that pointing out the harsh obviousness makes one an asshole these days.Man, you're dense. Being correct is key, but arguing your point wrong destroys any value in being correct. It's not enough to be correct if you not only are incapable of arguing it.

Making fat jokes about a sick woman who's afraid for her life, over an issue that's driven by supply-side inefficiencies is what makes you an asshole. Trying to characterize it as "pointing out the harsh obviousness" is just you trying to stroke your own ego. Pathetic.


It goes to show why Paul supporters were demonized since we are right and everyone knows it. Being nice is more important than being right these days. Being nice and lying wins elections. Telling the truth doesn't.Man you're dense. I mean, this is just you being super dense. It's like watching a football player catch the ball, and then start running towards the wrong endzone. Paul supporters were demonized because there were people like you who were assholes about how right they thought they were. Being self-aware does win election, but for some reason you're coupling that with lying. They aren't dependent on one another.

It happens that the liars already know that self-awareness and presentation is important. It happens that idiots like you hold the honest people back because you just hand-deliver ammo against yourself.


Btw, I doubt anything will or won't happen, such as socialised healthcare, simply because I post my thoughts on a website. Get a grip.You're just one example of many. Yeah, this is just a stupid post by you on a website. I have little doubts that you behave any like a fool in any other avenue. It gets picked up on, and it works against the people who actually give a damn. So instead of telling me to get a grip, perhaps you should just get a clue.

Objectivist
07-06-2009, 02:59 PM
Just doing my part to not be a burden on my fellow Americans. As I stated a few days ago I quit the gym I had been going to for 17 years and found the perfect place to train/workout. I drove my vehicle out 2 miles from my house and marked the corner so I'd have a good idea how far a 4 mile loop would be. Then last night after I finished working(1:30 am) I put on the running shoes and headed out. Ah.... so nice to run at night when the air is cool and not so many car exhausts to breathe in.

46 and still kicking the shit out of it.

tajitj
07-06-2009, 04:19 PM
I think to single her out is kind of wrong, it is the general American culture to not give a crap about your health because we have the best medical practices in the world. Do I hate to see people who obviously don't know the first thing about their own health demand I pay for their health, yes.

The one thing we could do to cut costs nationwide is to collectively lose weight.

jyakulis
07-06-2009, 05:35 PM
funny thing is she's one of the first ones to get culled under government health care. only two ways to keep costs down with command and control health care: rationing and killing off the unfit.

jyakulis
07-06-2009, 05:39 PM
Thank you!

I don't pull punches and people like Debbie need a slap across the face "SNAP OUT OF IT!!".

I'm proud of my Oma for walking 7-10 miles per day and maintaining a weight of 115 lbs at 5'5" for her adult life. She's made it to near 90 and has developed health problems. She is refusing treatment and wants to go home and be done with it. NO insistence of others to care for her and no guilt trips be pushed on the world... she understands that she has control of her life and did the best with what she has. Hell she was climbing a 6' ladder and washing her own windows a year ago.

I bet fat ass has to struggle getting off the couch.

right on....my grandma pretty much just eats fruits, vegetables, raw foods. doesn't buy prepackaged nutrionless garbage and is alive and kicking into her mid 90's. she still cuts her own grass and digs her own garden because she likes getting extra exercise.

Objectivist
07-06-2009, 05:55 PM
funny thing is she's one of the first ones to get culled under government health care. only two ways to keep costs down with command and control health care: rationing and killing off the unfit.

Sounds like a WWII Nazi Doctor I heard about.:eek:

jsteilKS
07-08-2009, 08:37 PM
I am a pharmacy tech and am STRONGLY AGAINST NATIONALIZED HEALTH CARE! Here are a few ways to lower health care costs that I have observed from working in a pharmacy and knowing a lot about insurance and Medicaid and Medicare.
1) stop all of the personal injury lawyers from advertising "if you have taken this medication and suffer from this...call us we can get you money!" This just drives Dr's malpractice insurance up.
2)the EMERGENCY ROOM is for EMERGENCIES ONLY!!!!!!!! We see people most of whom you guessed are on Medicaid or Medicare bring in Rx's from the ER at least once or twice a week, plus see their primary care Dr. that same week. I had a lady tell me she went to the emergency room b/c she had a headache. Not a migraine, just a headache.
3) Personal responsibility! Smoking will cause breathing problems, heart disease, etc.....Obesity will cause diabetes, heart disease, pain, breathing problems...etc.
4)Medicare and Medicaid get kick backs from drug companies if they choose to "only pay for the brand" even if there is a cheaper generic available. Etc. Missouri Medicaid will only pay for "Duragesic" (brand) patches-(fentanyl trans dermal patch for pain) vs. the generic which is MUCH cheaper and is the same active ingredient fentanyl.
5)over medicating! we have people who get a prescription for something for EVERY Symptom! a headache-lortab....sneezing-allegra...stuffy nose-nasonex....cough-mucinex dm...if you know what i mean

hopefully this health care reform act WILL NOT PASS! all of us at the pharmacy (small independent one) are 100% AGAINST IT