UTAH Alcohol law Question?

[Bluesky0081]

In Utah, the state has state run liquor stores and limit the amount and what kind of liquor can be sold in Grocery stores.

The question I have though is I just found out that they also prevent you from buying alcohol on the internet to get shipped here (or at least spirits, but probably more).

Is that constitutional? I thought inter-state commerce can't be messed with like that? Does anyone know how that law can be enforced constitutionally?

Thanks for any information.

[Rael]

My guess, and this is only a guess, is that if there is no federal guideline, that it would not be illegal for he person outside of Utah doing the shipping, but since the person receiving the shipment is in Utah and under the jurisdiction of Utah, they can prohibit someone in their jurisdiction receiving the alcohol.

[Vessol]

Many other states have similar laws.

I'd imagine it falls under the state's rights, not Federal.

[Bluesky0081]

IDK, I find it questionable. Does a state have a right to ban you from buying things online just because it isn't going to be taxed by that state? If that is the case, then a state could ban you from shopping at amazon.com.

I'm not familiar with these laws, so I don't know if states have the right to do this stuff or not. If someone is over 21, I don't see how a state can just stop you from buying things outside there border (if the stuff your buying is legal in your state and is also that EXACT PRODUCT is sold in the state itself at state liquor stores).

Does anyone else have information on this? The reason I ask is I found out you can buy alcohol online recently for much cheaper prices, but have yet to find a online store that ships to Utah (due to regulations).

[Wineman77]

When prohabition ended, the power to regulate alcohol was left to the states. Each state has it's own office and set of laws that regulate the industry. Some states are COD states (no terms are allowed to be granted from distibutors), some states have price controls (same price regardless of a pallet purchase, or a single case). Every state has a differing set of infuriating laws. Yes, I am in the wine industry and it is a highly regulated industry!!

The shipping restriction is there to "protect" the local in-state retailer. For instance in a price control state, wineries are not going to utilize marketing dollars to support a promotional price. It is very concievable that a customer could purchase the same wine for cheaper, even with shipping factored in, from an online retailer in California or New York.

[Sean]

One thing that is always in the back of my mind is that the Supreme Court has ruled so broadly in interstate commerce cases that even growing your own vegetables is considered interstate commerce. This would seem to me to then deny states any control over any commerce. Making almost all state laws void. If Congress has the sole power to regulate all commerce then any state law should be unconstitutional maybe even sales taxes.

[Bluesky0081]

Ok, see, what sean is saying is what makes me question this type of state behavior. Interstate commerce.

Sure, states have these laws in place, but with ruling done by the Supreme Court, are those state laws really constitutional?

Sean, please give some more specifics on what you are talking about.

[Zippyjuan]

Colorado does not allow the sale of alcohol stronger than 3.2% in grocery stores and several states including Pennsylvania have state run liquor stores. As for shipping to Utah (you may have the sender lie about the contents of the package but could still get busted).

http://www.realbeer.com/library/beerbreak/archives/beerbreak20011108.php

"Dear Mr. (he asked we not use his name):

"I am an agent with the State Bureau of Investigations. Recently, I intercepted 21 bottles of alcohol addressed to you. I have been unable to contact you at your residence.

"The law pertaining to the importation of alcoholic beverages is UCA 32A-12-503: It is unlawful for any...person, to ship or transport or cause to be transported into this state or from one place to another within this state any alcoholic product. This is a class B misdemeanor punishable up to a $1,000 fine and/or six months in jail.

"To my knowledge, this is your first offense. Many people in Utah do not know that sending or receiving alcohol is illegal. Therefore, I am sending you this letter as a warning. If our department intercepts any alcoholic beverages in the future, you will be charged for the violation.

"To avoid problems in the future, I would ask that you contact whoever sends you the alcohol and cancel any orders you may have coming.

"Respectfully, Agent (name withheld)"



Looks like there may be a way to get it legally but it can be time consuming and costly:
http://shipcompliantblog.com/blog/2008/12/18/utah-allows-shipment-of-wine-well-not-exactly/


In one of the most regulated and restricted states in the US, residents may now special-order alcohol online. The Utah Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control (DABC) announced that Utah residents may use an online Special Order Form to purchase alcohol that is otherwise unavailable in the State’s liquor stores. The alcohol would then be shipped to a DABC store location of the buyer’s choosing for pickup. Available since September of this year, the system was relatively unknown until recently due to limited exposure.
More details at the link.


Regarding the markups, the Utah DABC does indeed include a markup in the final price of alcoholic beverages ordered through its special order form. The markup for beer is 64.5% and for wine and spirits is 86%.

[Sean]

Ok, see, what sean is saying is what makes me question this type of state behavior. Interstate commerce.

Sure, states have these laws in place, but with ruling done by the Supreme Court, are those state laws really constitutional?

Sean, please give some more specifics on what you are talking about.

21st amendment seems to give the states a right to make their own liquor laws.


2. The transportation or importation into any State, Territory, or possession of the United States for delivery or use therein of intoxicating liquors, in violation of the laws thereof, is hereby prohibited.


What I am talking about mostly doesn't concern liqour or alcohol as that is covered in the 21st amendment which would overwrite the Commerce Clause on alcohol. It concerns other things that the states regulate regarding commerce. All Licensing requirements, taxes, ect. If the Federal government claims almost all powers over trade then you can not have it both ways with the states also having powers unless granted by Congress. I think the Supreme Court really created a mess

http://economics.gmu.edu/wew/articles/03/abuse.html

[Sean]

One other point to look at though is the 21st amendment refers to liquor, which has a definition different than most wines and beers. I don't know the legal definition of liquor but wine and beer are not considered liquors generally. Liquors are distilled alcohol as opposed to fermented.

[Bluesky0081]

Zippyjuan, very good and interesting post. I learned a lot from that about Utah laws.

Yeah, I guess the 21st amendment does cover that. I think it ridiculous that there should be any regulation like that in the USA though. I can understand regulated for peoples health (aka, making sure the alcohol it is labeled as IS WHAT IT SAYS IT IS), but marking up prices and preventing people from buying what they want is ridiculous.

And wines and beers should probably be banned from regulation by state if they don't fit the definition of liquor. I remember seeing someone get a wine box in the mail once I think and it may be because they are actually NOT regulated by states. But it might have just been a box that had wine labels on the outside, not actual alcohol content in the box.