Why do some liberals like Bill Maher and Howard Stern call themselves Libertarians?

[Howard_Roark]

Bill Maher is a straight up leftist yet has the audacity to call himself Libertarian? I listened to just 20 minutes of Howard Stern and he doesn't pass up a single opportunity to make fun of conservatives yet he too is on the internet saying hes Libertarian?

[devil21]

Maher wasn't always such a liberal. He was entertaining when he was in the business of attacking all political hacks back in the days of Politically Incorrect. I guess these days he doesn't want to lose that "independent streak" viewer that thinks he's still the same guy. But yeah you're right he's gone full on leftist. It's gotten so bad I can't watch a full episode of Real Time anymore.

I don't listen to Stern anymore so no comment there. When he was on regular radio I dont remember him being overly political except the FCC stuff. I guess that's changed since he went private.

[Steeleye]

Because Democrat is too mainstream and the Green Party isn't cool enough yet.

[IamPersistent]

Bill Maher is a straight up leftist yet has the audacity to call himself Libertarian? I listened to just 20 minutes of Howard Stern and he doesn't pass up a single opportunity to make fun of conservatives yet he too is on the internet saying hes Libertarian?

Well I have never listened to Stern, but I can confidently say that a conservative != a libertarian. Not even close.

As far as Maher goes, is he still claiming to be a libertarian? I will give Maher credit, he don't mind be harsh on both partys. He's be coming out on Bush III, uh I mean Obama, lately.

[Howard_Roark]

I'm not sure what you mean by !=??? Stern was so political I had to turn him off, in only 20 minutes he managed to praise Keith Olberman and Letterman and bash O'Reilly and Palin.

[LibertyEagle]

!= means, does not equal.

[Romantarchist]

http://www.theadvocates.org/celebrities/howard-stern.html

According to what the Advocates say about Howard Stern, he actually sounds pretty libertarian, and upset with the Republicans and Democrats. Assuming this article's statements are all true, of course.

[Optatron]

what makes Howard Stern non-libertarian?

[carmaphob]

Stern seems to agree with many of the things Ron Paul says.
YouTube - Howard Stern on Ron Paul (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLwkFG_CyHk)

YouTube - Howard Stern praises Ron Paul! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-B9mfV2tw3Y)

[Theocrat]

It's because some liberals like Bill Maher and Howard Stern equate libertarianism either with egalitarianism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egalitarianism) or libertinism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertinism). They believe that either position is the foundation for liberty.

[Optatron]

Stern seems to agree with many of the things Ron Paul says.


but i bet you stern is pro-gay marriage, pro-abortion, maybe even anti-border

(no, not saying that makes him non-libertarian)

[Optatron]

It's because some liberals like Bill Maher and Howard Stern equate libertarianism either with egalitarianism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egalitarianism) or libertinism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertinism). They believe that either position is the foundation for liberty.

i'll take libertinism any day over your theocracy

egalitarianism? not so much

[BenIsForRon]

I'm not sure what you mean by !=??? Stern was so political I had to turn him off, in only 20 minutes he managed to praise Keith Olberman and Letterman and bash O'Reilly and Palin.

Since when do we care if people bash O'reilly and Palin? I swear, I think some people on these boards are just Neocons who wish their guys were more pro-free market.

[someperson]

Since when do we care if people bash O'reilly and Palin?
I was thinking the same thing ;)

[SimpleName]

Bill Maher is NOT a libertarian by any means. People love to abuse that word. Just because you believe in "free expression", does not mean you are a libertarian. Maher criticized the tea parties and fondles Obama's jewels whenever possible. Can't stand the guy. He sees all the wrong in Republicans and all the good in Democrats. It is simply the popular thing to do. No one should listen to the fool. And he only gets worse.

As for Howard Stern, he has the "all the wrong in Republicans and all the good in Democrats" thing going for him, but is not on the same level as Maher. Stern loved Ron Paul when he first heard about him, putting down the income tax and regulation of the media along with some other points. So, Stern isn't lost. He just has drunk driving goggles over his head due to the constant liberal propaganda. I draw him along the lines of George Carlin. He too enjoyed Keith Olbermann's bad talk of these so-called conservatives. The problem is, they don't understand the full ideology. When a libertarian talks about cutting away welfare checks and throwing away foreign aid, these types of people don't realize the full message. I mean, think of how terrible it sounds to an outsider to talk about pulling money away from poor people. If they just could see that alongside that comes a completely different train of thought that goes with personal charity and elimination of harsh taxation, they would find themselves where we are.

I'm a little tired, so don't take that word for word, but you guys get the point. Maher = full on liberal who wants others to be forced to his beliefs. Stern = libertarian who doesn't understand full ideology.

[RevolutionSD]

Stern supported and praised George Bush often during his first term.
Stern is pretty much all over the map, kind of a "politics in mid stream" guy.

He incidentally ran for gov of NY as a Libertarian.

[__27__]

but i bet you stern is pro-gay marriage, pro-abortion, maybe even anti-border

(no, not saying that makes him non-libertarian)


And I'm yet to see what makes him non-libertarian.

Pro-gay marriage = anti-initiation of government force on a person based on sexual preference (or more aptly the removal of government from all things marriage period). +1 libertarianism.

Pro-abortion = you really have to be more specific. The federal government has no right making abortion law. While I'm 100% pro-life, I'm not a statist enough to wish my government uses it's JBT's to enforce my will. +1 libertarianism.

Anti-border = you aren't really one of those who believes a geo-political border drawn at some despots will can tell you the worth of another individual are you? Nationalism is near the antithesis of liberty. +10 libertarianism.


Got anything else?

[Freedom 4 all]

For the same reason Sean Hannity calls himself a libertarian.

[Mini-Me]

Since the Nolan Chart focuses on liberty and lack thereof, it may be missing some dimensions relevant to statists (since it doesn't distinguish between the subtly different leftist/rightist forms of statist totalitarianism at the bottom...as barely distinguishable as they are). However, I think it's pretty relevant here:
Whereas the Democrats are pretty solidly in the bottom-left quadrant and the Republicans are pretty solidly in the bottom-right quadrant, both drifting closer and closer towards the bottom point of statism, Bill Maher is a pretty solid leftist. He's probably still technically in the bottom-left quadrant, but he's much closer to the left corner than the bottom corner. This presents a problem for him because Democrats - who most people associate with the left - are too fascist for him on certain "personal life choice" matters like marijuana legalization, etc., so he's adopted the word "libertarian" (in the sense of civil libertarians) to describe himself without really "getting" libertarianism.

As far as Howard Stern is concerned, my best guess is that he is somewhere bordering the vertical line between libertarianism and the center of the chart. While he may not be a full-blown principled libertarian, the word is probably a much closer fit than any other common label.

If Sean Hannity of all people is calling himself a libertarian though...that's just entirely ridiculous, considering he's about halfway along the bottom-right edge. I can think of only two reasons why he might call himself a libertarian:
He may be even more of an idiot than we previously thought...
...but he is [or his handlers are] probably just trying to co-opt the word and render it meaningless.

[virgil47]

Both of them are using the term libertarian in an effort to co-opt the term much as the progressive/socialist folks did with the word liberal. It is their desire to take the word libertarian and have it mean progressive.

[swed]

Since when do we care if people bash O'reilly and Palin? I swear, I think some people on these boards are just Neocons who wish their guys were more pro-free market.

X1000000000000000000000

Anyways I do think maher is more liberal than libertarian. But remember, beck, hannity and o'reilly all call themselves libertarians. I think we need to stick together and boot out these left wing/right wing intruders.

[disorderlyvision]

Glen Beck claims to be a libertarian too:mad:

[virgil47]

And I'm yet to see what makes him non-libertarian.

Pro-gay marriage = anti-initiation of government force on a person based on sexual preference (or more aptly the removal of government from all things marriage period). +1 libertarianism.

Well if the pedophile protection act that is currently before congress gets passed you will certainly get your wish.

Pro-abortion = you really have to be more specific. The federal government has no right making abortion law. While I'm 100% pro-life, I'm not a statist enough to wish my government uses it's JBT's to enforce my will. +1 libertarianism.

Are you for the death penalty? I would hope so or is that being to statist for you as well?

Anti-border = you aren't really one of those who believes a geo-political border drawn at some despots will can tell you the worth of another individual are you? Nationalism is near the antithesis of liberty. +10 libertarianism.


Got anything else?

Do you really believe that the founders of our country delineated the borders of the nation they were founding to show that they were of greater worth to humanity than our neighbors to the south and north of us?

[Brassmouth]

Bill Maher is a straight up leftist yet has the audacity to call himself Libertarian? I listened to just 20 minutes of Howard Stern and he doesn't pass up a single opportunity to make fun of conservatives yet he too is on the internet saying hes Libertarian?

I know nothing of Howard Stern's politics, but making fun of conservatives is quite libertarian. I do it all the time, and encourage it.

[devil21]

I know nothing of Howard Stern's politics, but making fun of conservatives is quite libertarian. I do it all the time, and encourage it.

But not while praising liberals. That's the key difference apparently.

[Brassmouth]

But not while praising liberals. That's the key difference apparently.

That was not included in the OP. I didn't read the thread. I still maintain that mocking conservatives is quite libertarian, notwithstanding any liberal worship.

[HRD53]

Speaking of Howard Stern and Bill Maher...

Stern had Bill Maher on his show after Maher lost his show, Politically Incorrect, on ABC. Stern blindsided Maher into doing an impromptu version of Politically Incorrect with the 'Wack Pack'... To this day, Maher will not appear on a Stern show and the two of them have had a complete falling out.

So, i guess i'll always be a bit of a Stern fan for pissing that leftist off. :)

You can visibly see Maher getting upset, although he played it off as best he could... Enjoy!


YouTube - Maher on Stern "politically incoherant" p4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lx34ZVp036s&feature=related)

[unconsious767]

Howard is for full-on intervention in places like Iran, where apparently all the inhabitants would personally launch a nuke the first chance they'd get. At least he knows that Ahmadinejad isn't really the leader of Iran. Too bad he can't see the same for his own country.

He hates it when the government tries to restrict him, but loves big government when it benefits him. He adored guiliani as a mayor. He's in favor of any and all restrictions on tobacco, and for charging $100 for a car to enter the city, or whatever stupid plan bloomburg was considering.

To me, he seems like someone who just doesn't have enough information, and could be swayed (unlike Maher).

[__27__]

Do you really believe that the founders of our country delineated the borders of the nation they were founding to show that they were of greater worth to humanity than our neighbors to the south and north of us?

They delineated the borders to identify which land they owned, and which land would live under our government and thus, would be GUARANTEED the protection of the constitution. Do you really believe they delineated the borders in a nationalistic attempt to keep "outsiders" out? We are a nation of immigrants, any human who wishes to seek refuge from tyranny and oppression around the globe should be welcomed with open arms, any human who wishes to enter his labor into our market in exchange for commodity (yes, even paper) should be welcomed with open arms. Give us your tired, your weak, your huddled masses. Nationalism and closed borders are antithetical to freedom and individual liberty.

And Capital Punishment? Do you really believe the state has a right to murder people? Especially those innocent that it has murdered? But again, while I believe it is wrong for the state to murder people, just as I believe it is wrong for a mother to murder her child, I recognize that NEITHER are within the enumerated powers of the constitution for the Federal government to decide. They are states rights issues, and should be decided as such.

[virgil47]

When our country was founded do you really believe that the founders ever imagined that millions of people would violate the laws of our country by coming here illegally and demand the right to sponge off the citizens that are willing to work (welfare, free medical, free education and so on). If a person, any person, is willing to follow the law and become a legal immigrant I will be the first to shake their hand and say welcome. However if a person, any person, comes to the U.S. illegally then they should not be welcome and should have no constitutional rights. To allow masses of people to cross our borders is the quickest way for the U.S. to lose its identity as a sovereign nation. This of course is exactly what the one worlders would like to see happen. Illegal immigration is but one facet of the one worlders agenda. Dumbing down our children, weakening our military and discriminating against Christians are but a few more. I can give you examples of many things that have changed since the 1950's and can correspondingly show the effects of those changes on our individual freedoms and the respect shown America by the rest of the world.

[Liberty Star]

Two freaks of nature. Howards Stern was apparently fired after his on air racist remarks about children of Iraqi race before Iraq war. He seems like a scumbag.
Maher is not total waste but on key foreign policy issues he's messed up.

[gls]

He incidentally ran for gov of NY as a Libertarian.

He decided not to run after he found out he would have to publicly disclose his finances. He probably would've won...

[tangent4ronpaul]

For the same reason that the socialists and communists started calling themselves "progressives" - to take over that faction and deceive people as to their true agenda.

-t

[jsu718]

Well lets put it this way...
Current Republicans (neocons) = fiscal liberals and social conservatives
Current Democrats (socialists) = fiscal liberals and social liberals
Libertarians = fiscal conservatives and social liberals

You can see why some Libertarians might associate more with Democrats than with Republicans.

And yes, this is massively oversimplified.

[Imperial]

I must speak from personal experience here. Last weekend I went to this political symposium and I was basically the only one advocating for minor parties there, even though I have chosen to work within the Republican Party.

I thought I was alone until I mentioned I lean libertarian, and then suddenly I heard an anthem of voices from all over the place. One guy who I think campaigned for Obama-Biden said he liked libertarianism. Another one who repeatedly began to say he was a libertarian argued for gun control. One liberal told me she leaned libertarian and liked Bob Barr but didn't really know too much about the party.

I did meet one closet libertarian who did know about say the FSP and other things. But other than that the political views were pretty horizontal left vs. right.

Still, I think it is generally a good thing as long as there is somebody to provide the a type of "conscience" to the dilution. It gets the label out there for people to get used to, and then they can explore other ideas associated with the philosophy as a hole and make educated decisions from a perspective they had never before considered.

[nayjevin]

Bill Maher is a straight up leftist yet has the audacity to call himself Libertarian? I listened to just 20 minutes of Howard Stern and he doesn't pass up a single opportunity to make fun of conservatives yet he too is on the internet saying hes Libertarian?

To avoid having to apologize for the actions of the two major parties, and to play up the 'irreverent outsider' image.

[gls]

Well lets put it this way...
Current Republicans (neocons) = fiscal liberals and social conservatives
Current Democrats (socialists) = fiscal liberals and social liberals
Libertarians = fiscal conservatives and social liberals

You can see why some Libertarians might associate more with Democrats than with Republicans.

And yes, this is massively oversimplified.

I wouldn't consider the current Democratic-run federal regime to be socially liberal. Just look at Obama's record so far on so called "Civil Liberties" like indefinite detention, torture, and illegal spying. It's not good.

[jsu718]

I wouldn't consider the current Democratic-run federal regime to be socially liberal. Just look at Obama's record so far on so called "Civil Liberties" like indefinite detention, torture, and illegal spying. It's not good.

well in arguments like this you pretty much have to focus on the differences, not the similarities.

[JeNNiF00F00]

I don't consider myself a violent person but hearing people like bill maher and hannity say they are libertarian makes me want to cut their balls off and shove them up their arse before letting them bleed to death in their own putrid misery and pain.

[South Park Fan]

Well lets put it this way...
Current Republicans (neocons) = fiscal liberals and social conservatives
Current Democrats (socialists) = fiscal liberals and social liberals
Libertarians = fiscal conservatives and social liberals

You can see why some Libertarians might associate more with Democrats than with Republicans.

And yes, this is massively oversimplified.

I think it is more like this:

Current Republicans (neocons) = fiscal and social statists
Current Democrats (socialists) = fiscal and social statists
Libertarians = fiscal and social libertarians