Marco Rubio Money Bomb July 4th

[heath.whiteaker]

http://centralfloridapolitics.com/?p=164

Looks like the grassroots are ready to take on the establishment’s candidate Charlie Crist for the open U.S. Senate seat. I received an email today notifying me of the money bomb. Below is the email
___________________________________
Our Country is at a crossroads, the path we decide to follow today will have a strong and lasting effect on the United States for generations to come. In Florida, the US Senate race between Charlie Crist and Marco Rubio is not only an example of the crossroad for the US but for the Republican Party as well.

As Governor Mr. Crist has embraced Obama’s socialist bailout plan and failed to deliver much needed property tax relief to millions of Floridians. As speaker of the Florida House, Mr. Rubio led the charge to end property taxes in Florida and was always vigilant against laws that might limit our rights as citizens.

Marco Rubio espouses all the Ideas that truely define Republicans, and because of this the Washington establishment has chosen to openly oppose Mr. Rubio’s run for the US Senate.

I ask that you join me and thousands of other freedom loving Amricans in a show of solidarity and love for this country by contributing $44 on the 4th of July to Marco Rubio’s campaign.

Please visit http://www.44onthe4th.com and show your support by pledging to contribute $44 on the 4th of July to Marco Rubio’s Senate Campaign.
I ask that you forward this message to family, friends and all others that believe in freedom. Help us put our country back on the path that respects individual freedom and fiscal responsibility.

Visit http://www.44onthe4th.com today and pledge $44 on the 4th of July.
___________________________________
No word on who is actually putting together this grassroots fundraising effort. If it is anything like the Ron Paul money bombs it will be something worth watching.

[Njon]

At that http://44onthe4th.com/ website the middle picture is him with former Speaker Newt Gingrich. Not a good thing.

[Nathan Hale]

At that http://44onthe4th.com/ website the middle picture is him with former Speaker Newt Gingrich. Not a good thing.

Think big tent. In order for Rubio to win, we need to embrace people who aren't 100% on board with the Ron Paul Revolution. Not even Rubio is 100% on board, but it's time to stop seeing our 80% friends as our 20% enemies. I'm not a huge cheerleader for Gingrich, but he's far less odious than the average George Bush/Dick Cheney/John McCain.

If you had to divide the GOP into three camps as it appears the lines are being drawn today - Neocon, Centrist, and Libertarian - Gingrich is within the neocon camp but not far from the line that divides the neocon portion of the spectrum from the libertarian portion of the spectrum. His support of Rubio could bring in the necessary neocon primary votes to send Rubio to the general over Crist. That's a good thing.

[polomertz]

Nothing against Marco, but I'll be going Kokesh on the 4th.

[erowe1]

Gingrich is within the neocon camp

Well, yeah. My only correction to that is that the centrists and the neocons are the same people most of the time, and Gigrich is clearly both. And as far as we can tell, so is Rubio. Why are Ron Paul folks supporting him? Is it just an "anybody but Crist" thing? Has Rubio taken any clear positions against the GOP establishment that we're supposed to like? Is he against nation building? Is he against No Child Left Behind? NAFTA? Bush's prescription drug benefit? Aid for Katrina victims? The Patriot Act? Does he want to get rid of any departments of the federal government? What about any agencies? The BATF? The IRS?

Do we have anything good to go on with him aside from the fact that he's not Crist, and that the Republicans he identifies with most so far seem to be Newt Gingrich and Jeb Bush (who tacitly endorsed Romney for president)?

[Nathan Hale]

Well, yeah. My only correction to that is that the centrists and the neocons are the same people most of the time, and Gigrich is clearly both.

Perhaps they agree on some issues, but they are not the same people. Gingrich is trying to appeal to centrists in order to get as many as possible into his camp - this is, after all, a battle between factions for control of the GOP.


And as far as we can tell, so is Rubio. Why are Ron Paul folks supporting him? Is it just an "anybody but Crist" thing? Has Rubio taken any clear positions against the GOP establishment that we're supposed to like? Is he against nation building? Is he against No Child Left Behind? NAFTA? Bush's prescription drug benefit? Aid for Katrina victims? The Patriot Act? Does he want to get rid of any departments of the federal government? What about any agencies? The BATF? The IRS?

We don't know enough about him to make that call yet - let's see what his website turns up when its fully operational. But I'll repeat, even if Rubio isn't 100% Ron Paul, it's stupid of us to exclude him from our support. So let's see how he is - if he's George Bush, he's not worth supporting - but if he's Gingrich/DeMint and his emphasis is on the economy without much bloodlust toward the middle east, that might be worth our support.


Do we have anything good to go on with him aside from the fact that he's not Crist, and that the Republicans he identifies with most so far seem to be Newt Gingrich and Jeb Bush (who tacitly endorsed Romney for president)?

Huckabee and DeMint as well.

[erowe1]

Nobody's talking about him being 100% Ron Paul, at least I'm certainly not. But is he anything like Ron Paul at all? If we don't have any reason to think so, then why even talk about giving him money here? Let him come out with some serious anti-establishment positions, then we can talk.

I don't think Bob Smith is perfect. But he at least gives me enough to go on that I know he'll buck the GOP establishment and takes the Constitution seriously. Unless Rubio gives us some actual reason to think he's better than Smith, then I can't see why RP folks would bother giving him the time of day.

[Nathan Hale]

Nobody's talking about him being 100% Ron Paul, at least I'm certainly not. But is he anything like Ron Paul at all? If we don't have any reason to think so, then why even talk about giving him money here? Let him come out with some serious anti-establishment positions, then we can talk.

You don't have to be "anti-establishment" to be on our side - talking about excess in government doesn't necessarily make you anti-establishment. I certainly am not anti-establishment, I just don't like the extend to which things have gone. My position here is for us to find out his issue positions before decrying him as not fit to be a Paul candidate.

[erowe1]

talking about excess in government doesn't necessarily make you anti-establishment.

Talking about excess in government doesn't make anyone anything but a run-of-the-mill Republican, and probably a hypocrite. If all Rubio can give you is vague talk about excess government, then he's given you nothing of any value at all. Crist gives you that too. In addition Crist, for all his hypocrisy, was rated as the very best fiscal conservative of all 50 governors in 2008 by the Cato institute. If you're setting the bar so low, you might as well just go with him.


My position here is for us to find out his issue positions before decrying him as not fit to be a Paul candidate.

Don't you think you have that backwards? Shouldn't it be that you withhold support until he gives you reasons to support him with policy positions, rather than assuming he's good until he proves otherwise, in which case he will never have any reason to commit to any positions. This talk about giving a money bomb to some establishment Republican who hasn't given us a single reason to support him seems ludicrous to me.

I don't think Bob Smith is perfect. But he's at least giving us some positive information to go on. He has a decent voting record at the federal level. He has shown willingness to buck the GOP and is actively courting constitutionalists and Glen Beck types. He's no Ron Paul. But if Floridians want to go with someone they know would be a better advocate for less government than Crist, then so far we have no reason to go with Rubio and at least some reason to go with Smith.

I would also plead with you to rethink your level of comfort with the establishment Republican party. The GOP is completely controlled by centrists who have no commitment to smaller government at all. They will talk about it, because they observe that that's all they have to do to get support from a great many people like yourself. But when they are in power they will never walk the talk. They will only act in such a way as to increase their own power over you. They actively oppose anyone who would seek to gain power within the party who will oppose those efforts. Our nation is in trouble. Things keep getting worse and worse, and both parties are complicit. In the case of Republican complicity, it isn't just the fault of some minority of so-called RINO's. It's the whole party doing it, with the most powerful Republicans being the most ardent proponents of growing the government. It's those of us who oppose that who are marginalized in the party, not the other way around. If you really want to fix the mess we're in, and you want to work within the Republican party to do it, then you must understand that the party needs to be reformed. And if it won't be reformed, it needs to be destroyed. When Rubio gives me even the slightest inkling that he understands this, then he'll get my attention. Until then, I can't help thinking he's just another pseudo-conservative decoy, a la Pat Toomey, thrown at us to keep constitutionalists from stirring up trouble.

[Nathan Hale]

Talking about excess in government doesn't make anyone anything but a run-of-the-mill Republican, and probably a hypocrite. If all Rubio can give you is vague talk about excess government, then he's given you nothing of any value at all. Crist gives you that too. In addition Crist, for all his hypocrisy, was rated as the very best fiscal conservative of all 50 governors in 2008 by the Cato institute. If you're setting the bar so low, you might as well just go with him.

Of course you get more lip service than genuine action, but there is a language to the lip service that defines the candidate, and we see Rubio working toward a as-of-yet vague but possibly friendly direction.


Don't you think you have that backwards? Shouldn't it be that you withhold support until he gives you reasons to support him with policy positions, rather than assuming he's good until he proves otherwise, in which case he will never have any reason to commit to any positions. This talk about giving a money bomb to some establishment Republican who hasn't given us a single reason to support him seems ludicrous to me.

I agree with you. I don't think we should money bomb the man, but neither do I think we should discard him. You see, it's not about witholding support or offering support. I support the idea of candidate purgatory - he is viewed as having potential, so lets wait and see what he stands for.


I don't think Bob Smith is perfect. But he's at least giving us some positive information to go on. He has a decent voting record at the federal level. He has shown willingness to buck the GOP and is actively courting constitutionalists and Glen Beck types. He's no Ron Paul. But if Floridians want to go with someone they know would be a better advocate for less government than Crist, then so far we have no reason to go with Rubio and at least some reason to go with Smith.

Hey, Smith is from NH, that's not bad. The Rubio attraction is that he's the one coming the closest to Crist in the polls.


I would also plead with you to rethink your level of comfort with the establishment Republican party. The GOP is completely controlled by centrists who have no commitment to smaller government at all. They will talk about it, because they observe that that's all they have to do to get support from a great many people like yourself.

The GOP isn't controlled, not right now. That's the great opportunity. There are power players who are centrists, power players who are family values conservatives, power players who are neocons, power players who are libertarian, etc. I'm not comfortable with the establishment Republican Party, but I know that in order to achieve our political agenda they are a necessary part of our equation.


But when they are in power they will never walk the talk. They will only act in such a way as to increase their own power over you. They actively oppose anyone who would seek to gain power within the party who will oppose those efforts. Our nation is in trouble. Things keep getting worse and worse, and both parties are complicit. In the case of Republican complicity, it isn't just the fault of some minority of so-called RINO's. It's the whole party doing it, with the most powerful Republicans being the most ardent proponents of growing the government.

Yes, the system is the problem, but the system also offers the means to solve the problem. It's vulnerable to infiltration. We are capable of altering the political course in this country, and using the GOP to further that process.


It's those of us who oppose that who are marginalized in the party, not the other way around. If you really want to fix the mess we're in, and you want to work within the Republican party to do it, then you must understand that the party needs to be reformed. And if it won't be reformed, it needs to be destroyed.

Yes, exactly, the party is weak and nor is our chance to capture a mindshare in it.


When Rubio gives me even the slightest inkling that he understands this, then he'll get my attention. Until then, I can't help thinking he's just another pseudo-conservative decoy, a la Pat Toomey, thrown at us to keep constitutionalists from stirring up trouble.

I disagree that the candidate needs to see huge problems in the GOP. I'd prefer that we all not be forced to decry the status quo. Most local political party elements aren't like the statewide and national party elements, yet they believe in the system. These are good people who nominate candidates all the time who have faith in the system and simultaneously a good set of ideas. Perhaps it's not your ideal mindset, but mindset isn't what matters - action is. So let's see this play out and learn more about the candidate who comes to us ideologically recommended.

[Hamer]

We wanted to contact this guy and see if he agreed with the platform at www.retakecongress.com but there is no contact info on this link. If he really wants grassroots support he needs to be accepted at Retake Congress

[angelatc]

Face it. Nobody except possibly Chuck Baldwin is fit to be a Ron Paul candidate.

There's no Ron Paul candidate in the running.

Rubio is by far the most fiscal conservative of the two. Not sure where he stands on social issues.

[erowe1]

Face it. Nobody except possibly Chuck Baldwin is fit to be a Ron Paul candidate.

There's no Ron Paul candidate in the running.

Rubio is by far the most fiscal conservative of the two. Not sure where he stands on social issues.

First of all, what's your basis for saying Rubio is more fiscally conservative than Crist?

Second of all, at this early stage why limit yourself to those two?

Third of all, it's true that out of all the Republican primaries going on across the country for the 2010 elections, not many will offer any constitutionalist options. But some will. And it should be those that the Ron Paul movement puts its weight behind. If you haven't noticed there have been a number of 2010 candidates and potential candidates who have garnered some measure of support in this forum, some more than others. But they're all people who give us some reason to believe they are rather close to us, and would be a step in the right direction for the GOP, rather than business as usual. Rubio isn't one of those candidates, at least not until we have some proof of it. I don't blame people who have to hold their noses and vote in their primary for some establishment Republican because there's no other option. But there's a difference between simply casting a vote like that and having our group positively actively support someone. Maybe Rubio's a guy that RP voters in Florida will just have to accept for the lack of anyone else halfway decent. But he has given us no reason to think he's someone for our group to back actively.

On the other hand, RP Republicans do have someone who at least deserves our attention in Florida in Bob Smith. I don't consider him a Ron Paul candidate to the degree that Rand Paul and Peter Schiff are. But he's pretty close to the same thing as Chuck Baldwin. If nothing else, giving him some momentum might propel constitutionalism into the spotlight in the primary campaign and force Rubio and Crist to respond and try to prove their own levels of commitment. But without anyone like Smith in the race to attack Rubio from his right flank, and demand a commitment to the Constitution and to smaller government, then he'll have no need to fashion himself as anything other than a typical centrist neoconservative, which, so far, looks like the way he plans to go.

At any rate, this idea of a money bomb for him is silly. We might as well money bomb Chris Dodd. The admins ought to delete this whole thread.

[nayjevin]

hahah OP is guy who hijacked my thread about Bob Smith (founder of Live Free or Die Political Action Committee).

Heath.Whitaker says, 'Jeb {Bush} did a fairly good job.'
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=191496

For the record, Bob Smith does not stand with Newt Gingrich lol -- he has, however, cooperated with activists in my family who attempted to get our government to release evidence of POW's held captive in Vietnam well after the war. He was one of the very few in Washington who did cooperate, in fact. He is an honest man, and a real Constitutionalist (sided with Chuck Baldwin in the election). Slightly more hawkish than me (I'm straight non-agression in principle), but no neocon or party insider by any means. He will vote what he believes, and he definitely doesn't believe in bailouts and corporate taxes.

http://www.friendsofsenatorbobsmith.com (http://www.friendsofsenatorbobsmith.com/index.php)

And he's not having a moneybomb on the same day as Adam Kokesh either... hilarious

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=195070

Robert 'Bob' C Smith's youtube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/user/SenatorBobSmith

Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_C._Smith

Google search:
http://www.google.com/search?&q=robe...+new+hampshire (http://www.google.com/search?&q=robert+c+smith+new+hampshire)

Robert C 'Bob' Smith


Born March 30, 1941 in Trenton, NJ
Official Sites
Robert C Smith's YouTube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/SenatorBobSmith

Un-official Sites
Robert C Smith @ Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_C._Smith
Bio @ Congress.gov (http://bioguide.congress.gov/scripts/biodisplay.pl?index=S000606)

Accomplishments

Education
Bachelor's degree - Lafayette College - 1965 - B.A. Government and La

Employment/Business Experience
High and Junior High School history and English teacher, Wolfeboro, New Hampshire and Torrance, California 1967-1973
Everglades Foundation, Miami, Florida - President 2004-2007
First America Bank, Sarasota, Florida Founding Director 2003-present
Coldwell Banker Residential Real Estate, Sarasota, Florida Broker 2003-2004, 2008
Yankee Pedlar Real Estate, Wolfeboro, New Hampshire Owner 1977-1984

Military Service
U.S. Navy - 1965-1967, including a year of duty in Vietnam, enlisted E-4, served aboard USS Navasota in the Gulf of Tonkin in 1965
Five years in the Naval Reserve 1962-1965, 1967-1969

Political Experience
Representative - New Hampshire's 1st Congressional District in the U.S. House of Representatives from 1985 to December 1990. 99th, 100th, and 101st Congress
Senator, NH - appointed in 1990, re-elected and served from January 3, 1991, to January 3, 2003
Chair, Select Committee on Ethics (One Hundred Fifth and One Hundred Sixth Congresses)
Committee on Environment and Public Works (One Hundred Sixth Congress and One Hundred Seventh Congress), Ranking Member 2001-2003
Armed Services Committee
· Chairman Acquisition and Technology Subcommittee
· Chairman Strategic Forces Subcommitte
Judiciary Committee

Awards and Honors
Live Free or Die Political Action Committee Founder and Director
Ranked in the top 5 percent of the House and Senate as one of the most conservative members on social, economic and military issues
National Taxpayers Friend Award for votes saving taxpayer dollars
Airline Security Award from the Allied Pilots Association for supporting guns in the cockpits
Golden Gavel Award for chairing the U.S. Senate for over 100 hours
National Security Leadership Award for votes promoting a strong national defense
Bill of Rights Defender of the Year Award presented by Gun Owners of America for defending the Second Amendment
League of Private Property Voters for promoting and protecting private property rights
Numerous awards from American Legion, Disabled Veterans and other veterans groups for work on POW/MIA accounting and overall support of veterans issues
Nationally recognized by Humane Society of the United States and other groups for introducing and passing legislation for the prevention of animal abuse
Pro-Life Leader in the House and Senate for 18 years
Candidate for Republican Nomination for the 2000 Presidential Election

[ronpaulhawaii]

Anyone associated with Gingrich can KMA. He is behind the hijacking of the teaparties and it would not surprise me if this is an attempt to hurt Kokesh. Anyone that plans a bomb on the same day as another verified candidate is suspect... I'll wait and see how you guys flesh out this character, but, IMO, all donations on July 4th should go to Kokesh

[ClayTrainor]

anyone associated with gingrich can kma. He is behind the hijacking of the teaparties and it would not surprise me if this is an attempt to hurt kokesh. Anyone that plans a bomb on the same day as another verified candidate is suspect... I'll wait and see how you guys flesh out this character, but, imo, all donations on july 4th should go to kokesh

+1776

[heath.whiteaker]

We wanted to contact this guy and see if he agreed with the platform at www.retakecongress.com but there is no contact info on this link. If he really wants grassroots support he needs to be accepted at Retake Congress

contact me I have pretty much all their info and phone numbers.

[heath.whiteaker]

hahah OP is guy who hijacked my thread about Bob Smith (founder of Live Free or Die Political Action Committee).

Heath.Whitaker says, 'Jeb {Bush} did a fairly good job.'
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=191496

For the record, Bob Smith does not stand with Newt Gingrich lol -- he has, however, cooperated with activists in my family who attempted to get our government to release evidence of POW's held captive in Vietnam well after the war. He was one of the very few in Washington who did cooperate, in fact. He is an honest man, and a real Constitutionalist (sided with Chuck Baldwin in the election). Slightly more hawkish than me (I'm straight non-agression in principle), but no neocon or party insider by any means. He will vote what he believes, and he definitely doesn't believe in bailouts and corporate taxes.

http://www.friendsofsenatorbobsmith.com (http://www.friendsofsenatorbobsmith.com/index.php)

And he's not having a moneybomb on the same day as Adam Kokesh either... hilarious

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=195070

Robert 'Bob' C Smith's youtube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/user/SenatorBobSmith

Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_C._Smith

Google search:
http://www.google.com/search?&q=robe...+new+hampshire (http://www.google.com/search?&q=robert+c+smith+new+hampshire)

Robert C 'Bob' Smith


Born March 30, 1941 in Trenton, NJ
Official Sites
Robert C Smith's YouTube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/SenatorBobSmith

Un-official Sites
Robert C Smith @ Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_C._Smith
Bio @ Congress.gov (http://bioguide.congress.gov/scripts/biodisplay.pl?index=S000606)

Accomplishments

Education
Bachelor's degree - Lafayette College - 1965 - B.A. Government and La

Employment/Business Experience
High and Junior High School history and English teacher, Wolfeboro, New Hampshire and Torrance, California 1967-1973
Everglades Foundation, Miami, Florida - President 2004-2007
First America Bank, Sarasota, Florida Founding Director 2003-present
Coldwell Banker Residential Real Estate, Sarasota, Florida Broker 2003-2004, 2008
Yankee Pedlar Real Estate, Wolfeboro, New Hampshire Owner 1977-1984

Military Service
U.S. Navy - 1965-1967, including a year of duty in Vietnam, enlisted E-4, served aboard USS Navasota in the Gulf of Tonkin in 1965
Five years in the Naval Reserve 1962-1965, 1967-1969

Political Experience
Representative - New Hampshire's 1st Congressional District in the U.S. House of Representatives from 1985 to December 1990. 99th, 100th, and 101st Congress
Senator, NH - appointed in 1990, re-elected and served from January 3, 1991, to January 3, 2003
Chair, Select Committee on Ethics (One Hundred Fifth and One Hundred Sixth Congresses)
Committee on Environment and Public Works (One Hundred Sixth Congress and One Hundred Seventh Congress), Ranking Member 2001-2003
Armed Services Committee
· Chairman Acquisition and Technology Subcommittee
· Chairman Strategic Forces Subcommitte
Judiciary Committee

Awards and Honors
Live Free or Die Political Action Committee Founder and Director
Ranked in the top 5 percent of the House and Senate as one of the most conservative members on social, economic and military issues
National Taxpayers Friend Award for votes saving taxpayer dollars
Airline Security Award from the Allied Pilots Association for supporting guns in the cockpits
Golden Gavel Award for chairing the U.S. Senate for over 100 hours
National Security Leadership Award for votes promoting a strong national defense
Bill of Rights Defender of the Year Award presented by Gun Owners of America for defending the Second Amendment
League of Private Property Voters for promoting and protecting private property rights
Numerous awards from American Legion, Disabled Veterans and other veterans groups for work on POW/MIA accounting and overall support of veterans issues
Nationally recognized by Humane Society of the United States and other groups for introducing and passing legislation for the prevention of animal abuse
Pro-Life Leader in the House and Senate for 18 years
Candidate for Republican Nomination for the 2000 Presidential Election
Wow for someone crying about hijacking a thread wtf did you just do?

Bob Smith will not get even 3% of the vote. He is a hack....

[nayjevin]

Wow for someone crying about hijacking a thread wtf did you just do?

Bob Smith will not get even 3% of the vote. He is a hack....

bump

[Nathan Hale]

bump

It's a viable criticism. If Bob Smith is not going to poll near the top of the field it's important to reconsider.

[erowe1]

It's a viable criticism. If Bob Smith is not going to poll near the top of the field it's important to reconsider.

I don't think Smith is perfect. But this line seems like a self-fulfilling prophecy. At this early stage, it's not too late for anyone to change their minds later. Why not get behind the constitutionalist and see if you can build enough support to prove the nay sayers wrong? Or at least try to make him enough of a factor to give constitutionalism a spotlight and force the two establishment guys to take a stand one way or the other? Then if your efforts don't work out and Smith never rises above 3%, you can always hold your nose and vote for Rubio in the primary if you really think he's any less bad than Crist.

I'm still waiting for any evidence that Rubio is even the slightest bit less bad than Crist. So far I haven't seen any.

[nayjevin]

It's a viable criticism. If Bob Smith is not going to poll near the top of the field it's important to reconsider.

principles over viability. vote what you believe in, always.

voting for lesser of evils has been debunked many times on this forum.


Democracy hinges on the concept of the people having a voice in their government. What is the result of a citizenry who does NOT vote for what they believe in? Obviously, a government that the people DO NOT want. Democracy has no meaning if you do not vote for what you believe in.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=153073

[nayjevin]

Wow for someone crying about hijacking a thread wtf did you just do?

moving a thread toward truth is no Hijack.

moving it toward neocons is.

[Nathan Hale]

principles over viability. vote what you believe in, always.

Principles don't mean a damn thing if you're not viable. Vote what best serves your interest, which isn't necessarily a vote for what you believe in.



voting for lesser of evils has been debunked many times on this forum.

Don't even attempt to say that the strategic value of the lesser evil vote has been debunked.

[erowe1]

Can any of the Rubio supporters here even give us any specific reasons for why he is more deserving of the support of RP supporters than Crist is?

If you can't even meet such a low standard as showing just that, than there's no point in even bringing him up here. And so far I've seen no evidence that any of you can.

[Imperial]

I just heard Marco Rubio might be switching to the attorney general's race for Florida.

[erowe1]

I just heard Marco Rubio might be switching to the attorney general's race for Florida.

Who wants to bet that if he does, in his announcement he'll talk about how great of a Senate candidate Crist is, and how he realized he didn't want to make it any harder for him to get elected.

[angelatc]

Can any of the Rubio supporters here even give us any specific reasons for why he is more deserving of the support of RP supporters than Crist is?

If you can't even meet such a low standard as showing just that, than there's no point in even bringing him up here. And so far I've seen no evidence that any of you can.

He isn't Crist.

Because, as Dick Armey says .... With Democrats now possessing a 60-seat filibuster-proof Senate majority, the last thing America needs is another vote for a second round of stimulus waste, additional burdens on taxpayers, cap-and-trade schemes and liberal judges."

Rubio is running on an amnesty, small government platform, business friendly platform.

YouTube - Rubio Embraces Conservative Underdog Role In FL Senate Race (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlODhSCup9U)


Perhaps your energy would be better spent telling us who we *should* support than who we shouldn't. But I'm not a Florida voter, so my support isn't anything more than posturing.

Mary Ann (Scribbler) has shown us pictures of herself with Pappa Bush and Gingrich, among others. Are you going to work to toss her out of the movement next?

[Matt Collins]

The question is whether Rubio is a big-government Republican or not.

[angelatc]

The question is whether Rubio is a big-government Republican or not.

That's actually only one question. There are others, like "who else is running?"

And we're still talking about the primary. Even if a libertarian is on the general election ballot, knocking Crist off the GOP ticket would be a good move for the libertarians.

[erowe1]

Perhaps your energy would be better spent telling us who we *should* support than who we shouldn't. But I'm not a Florida voter, so my support isn't anything more than posturing.



I'm already on the record in this thread saying that I'd take Bob Smith over Crist or Rubio. However, as far as whom CFL supports in any active way (either officially or us as a movement in an unofficial way), I don't think it would be a good idea to make a point of getting behind a candidate in every single race, even if there aren't any that are close to where the CFL stands. I can understand how CFL members in Florida may have to hold their noses and vote for Rubio, hoping he's not so bad. But that's different than pumping money bombs for him here as though he's a Ron Paul candidate in any sense at all. I think that when it comes to us as a movement choosing those candidates whom we really want to back in an active nationwide push with money bombs and such, we should focus on a handful of the very best and not water it down to every lesser-of-two-evils candidate in every GOP primary.

As for Rubio having a small government platform, I have not seen any evidence that he does. I'm confident that he, like almost every Republican, claims to have a "small government," "business friendly" platform. But when they say that, they generally define the phrase "small government" in such a way that it actually means anything but that. And generally, when they say "business friendly" they have an idea of being business friendly that involves more big government. If Rubio doesn't advocate getting rid of any existing federal departments or agencies, or repealing any existing laws, or cutting the size of the federal budget year over year, then he's not actually for small government in any fair sense. And I highly doubt he's for any of those.

[angelatc]

The CFL won't endorse candidates. That's not even an issue.


I think that when it comes to us as a movement choosing those candidates whom we really want to back in an active nationwide push with money bombs and such, we should focus on a handful of the very best and not water it down to every lesser-of-two-evils candidate in every GOP primary.

But the thing is, you don't get to choose who the members try to raise money for. Don't like it? Don't donate. Better yet, go start a PAC.

You hijacked somebody else's thread and accomplished nothing. If I wasn't broke, I'd donate to Rubio just to tick you off.

Nobody cares that you don't like Rubio. Get it? We're all grown ups here - capable of making our own choices about which candidates deserve our money.

[erowe1]

The CFL won't endorse candidates. That's not even an issue.



But the thing is, you don't get to choose who the members try to raise money for. Don't like it? Don't donate. Better yet, go start a PAC.

You hijacked somebody else's thread and accomplished nothing. If I wasn't broke, I'd donate to Rubio just to tick you off.

Nobody cares that you don't like Rubio. Get it? We're all grown ups here - capable of making our own choices about which candidates deserve our money.

I don't know if the CFL will endorse candidates or not. It is a 501 c 4, so it at least can endorse them. My understanding is that the endorsement policy differs from state to state within the organization.

At any rate, regarding any given action on behalf of a candidate by the Ron Paul movement, whether its official or unofficial, my opinion is as valid as anyone else's, and this forum is as appropriate of a place for it as anywhere else. Of course if any troll wants to come here and try to get people to donate money to candidates like Rubio, Crist, Specter, McCain, Lindsey Graham, Obama, or whomever, they are free to do that and to donate to them. But when they do that, they should not be surprised to find themselves dressed down by the Ron Paul supporters here who want to make sure that these forums are used as a tool for the advancement of our movement over against the Republican/Democrat big government establishment. There's no such thing as hijacking threads. I have no idea if anyone cares if we Ron Paul supporters like Rubio or not. I'm sure some do and some don't. But this is a discussion forum, and the topic of this thread is Rubio. So it should come as no surprise to anyone that diversities of opinion about Rubio would be discussed here, nor should it come as any surprise that the opinions of those like me who belong to the Ron Paul wing of the GOP will be included, given the nature of this website. What should come as a surprise to people is the idea that just anybody can come in here pumping up just any candidate, no matter what their positions are, and not have others disagree with them.

As for my participation in this thread accomplishing anything, that was entirely up to the Rubio supporters. I challenged them quite some time ago to provide any evidence at all that Rubio would be less bad than Crist, and they never came up with any. If that is the same as accomplishing nothing, then that's on them, not me. But in my eyes, something was accomplished, since I think it's fair to say that if they had any evidence they would have provided it, and therefore there is no reason to think Rubio is less bad than Crist. Learning that fact is an accomplishment worth noting, at least to me, even if not to someone else.

[scandinaviany3]

Nobody's talking about him being 100% Ron Paul, at least I'm certainly not. But is he anything like Ron Paul at all? If we don't have any reason to think so, then why even talk about giving him money here? Let him come out with some serious anti-establishment positions, then we can talk.

I don't think Bob Smith is perfect. But he at least gives me enough to go on that I know he'll buck the GOP establishment and takes the Constitution seriously. Unless Rubio gives us some actual reason to think he's better than Smith, then I can't see why RP folks would bother giving him the time of day.

Yah bob smith is far more aligned, past NH senator, on POW hearings with mccain...where he learned to totally not like the guy for how he treated the families...

Doesnt hurt to be about 6 ft 5 when you walk into the room.

[scandinaviany3]

Face it. Nobody except possibly Chuck Baldwin is fit to be a Ron Paul candidate.

There's no Ron Paul candidate in the running.

Rubio is by far the most fiscal conservative of the two. Not sure where he stands on social issues.

actually bob knows the pauls and baldwins